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Building my first computer.. Looking for advice
Zaxx99
Member Posts: 1,761
Okay, this is my first attempt to build my own computer. I figured it couldn't be too hard after doing things such as installing DVD burners, memory, video cards, sound cards etc etc into counter computers such as previously owned Dells. Another reason I have decided to go this route is financial reasons. By building my own computer, I can buy an item on sale or that I want for the computer each time I have a little extra money on a paycheck. Anyhow, I have also bought PC Gamers "How to build your own computer" magazine that is on store shelves everywhere now. Looks like it's a very good step-by-step guide and I have no worries on actually building this thing.
Here's the components that I have already purchased:
Raidmax Scorpio computer case (No power supply) - $50
ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe socket 939 motherboard (w/ 2 PCI express slots) - $108
Seagate standard 300 GB 7200 rpm harddrive - $100 after rebates
Memorex DVD dual layer Burner/player - $40 after rebates
Compaq 17" flat screen CRT - $10 (garage sale last week, heh)
ENERMAX EG701AX-VE SLI 600 Watt power supply - $138
Micron 1 GB (2x512MB) PC 3200 Dual channel DDR 400 Mhz Ram - $70
As you can see, I still need the CPU, the video card(s), possibly a sound card, and a keyboard and mouse.
I am looking for advice here. I plan to buy a AMD CPU, but not sure if I wanna go with a AMD64 3700 CPU ($213) or pay about $350 for a AMD64 dual-core 4200 chip.
The video card(s) I am also contiplating. If I went with the 7800, would it be worth the money to buy two of them for the SLI board? Or maybe two 6800 cards would be a better bang for my buck? Or what about just a single 7900 or 1900 board for the $550?? Also would a sound card really be worth the money since I only have just basic speakers (Altec Lansing 2 speakers w/ subwoofer) that were on sale half price at CompUSA for $40 a few weeks ago. Maybe the sound card would relieve the processor chipset of the sound processing duties I understand, but would that really be worth the price I'd pay for a soundcard (especially since the motherboard has sound processing built in)
A mouse & keyboard I'm not really worried about. I will wait until they have another blow-out rebate sale at CompUSA or BestBuy or something. I missed a cordless Logitech keyboard and mouse for $19 (after rebates) that was on sale for $99 regualr price as the store sold out of them before I got there. I'll just wait until I see another good sale like that to get those probably.
Also, this will be my second computer in my house. My current system is a Dell P4 3.0 Ghz, 1 GB ram, Nvidia 6800 128 MB video card, 17" CRT, 160 GB HD. How much better will my new system be with some of the potential video cards, CPU I am considering??
Anyhow any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks, Zaxx
Comments
One thing that everyone overlooks is the cooling systems. I would say that you should spend at least 30 bucks on the CPU fan. Something along these lines:
http://froogle.google.com/froogle_cluster?q=cpu+fan&pid=4834532080211629849&oid=18070634576256031864&btnG=Search+Froogle&scoring=mrd&hl=en
Also your case fans shouldn't be the ones from the bargain bin. Look for solid aluminum fans or metallic fans for your case. They last longer and look better.
Another thing to do is to purchase the slim IDE cables. not the ribbon kind. They are a bit more, but can help cooling like you wouldn't believe.
Also Case fans should be situated so one is sucking in while the other blows out. Make the one in front suck because the backs of computers tend to be around more dust then the front.
There is also a new mesh screen out that goes over fans that can be cleaned much like a hepa-filter. Havn't tried them, but I'm sure they would be a nice addition.
better results from one high end vid card than 2 mid range ones, plus you can always throw in a second one later.
i just got a 7900GT for $320 and will just add another one a year down the road. newegg has $310 but they are sold out fast i think they are all sold at atm but just wait a day or 2. 7900gt
7900gtx is like 200 bucks more so if you have money to blow, but one single 7900gt run oblivion at max settings without a hiccup.
i just built my first comp last week and it went smoother than expected i just followed the manuals with the parts and this tutorial tut
If your motherboard can handle more than 1 gigabyte of ram, buy more RAM, especially if you're stuck with Windows XP, even if you use NT-lite with your own install CD, you'll always need more RAM. And ram being as cheap as it is right now, it's best to take advantage of it for the time being. Also, look at PCIe to be used for more than just your GFX card soon, but that will be another year probably, so you can either buy up to the more pricy Mobos with PCIe only slots or just handle the current PCIe/PCI+AGP combo boards, which will still have room to grow, but just barely.
And the last parting advice, never ever buy from a shoe-string budget store, you'll always get burned, especially on OEM parts, from such places. As much as NewEgg/ChiefValue cost, they're still cheaper than most major retail outlets, unless you're lucky enough to have a local not-so-retail computer store to buy parts around wholesale cost[non-OEM parts again...].
-- Bridget
You can get a dual core AMD 3800+ on Newegg for $295, and 2 eVGA 256mb 7600GT's for $189 each, wouldnt be as good as say 2 7900's and a 4200+, but still very, very good. And the money you would save (which would be ALOT) could be used for (as susgested before me) better cooling, and then keyboard and mouse, sound card..whatever.
*EDIT* Also another thing, im sure you are aware of this, but in the processor department do NOT cheap out and go for single core, you will regret it. I saw you said a regular AMD 64 was one of your options, just spend the extra $80 or so and get the dual core I susgested, will be worth it.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
I agree with lady completly....
Stay away from the bargain basement.... some are truely very good and some are outright thieves.
Ram is always a good expense...though I find about 2Gb is all you need, after that the gains are not as good... unless you are on a MAC and doing 3D work.
Those filters for the fan are pretty good but you do have to keep them clean and they do reduce the airflow some, but are a good idea. Do buy the best quality you can get, not fun changing fans out (takes away from fragging friends.... you know who you are). And always use the nice round cables instead of the ribbons... especially if you are overclocking or going dual processor.
Witty saying to amuse you goes here.
2. If you do stick with the A8N and a single core processor the onboard sound is good enough for me. Features 5.1 and all the usual line in and outs. No need to take up another PCI slot unless your going all out on speakers and sound quality.
06.04.04
This summer (~ June) the AM2 slot AMD mobo should be showing up, and by then the A64x2 4800 may be closer to $400, instead of $600ish now. The thing is with high end gaming you want 512MB gpu that utalize pixel & vetrex shader 3. Especially for wide screen displays (wxga 1366x768, wsxga 16x1050, wuxga 1920x12.) You want quality (4 to 12ms [250 to 83Hz]) LCD type display in wide screen, so you can have the hot key, chat & various other transparent windows to the sides with the center view area free to view the game; and those wide screen + transparent boxes + high AS/AA need huge amounts of memory on gpu (eg 512MB x1900xtx or GF7900gtx pairs.) Having SLI/Crossfire pairs of gpu and eventually an Ageia ppu (pci express slot, NOT pci slot) can really fatigue even the high-end cpu. And next wear when vista & DX10 show up even more serious display effects are possible.
So, quite a few are waiting for this summer to see the new AMD (gaming) AM2 slot pci express motherboard reviews. Add in SATA2 37MB/s hard drives and 4MB/s broadband and you are in 21 century gaming.
Expect to spend 1/4 to 1/3 your budget on the display, that is after all what you spend most of your time looking at. and what you are spending a fortune in gpu, ppu, to post images to. And next year there are like 6 or 7 versions of W64 (vista.) As it stands now if you buy Wxp, and change out mobo you gota buy a new retail OS key, or even a new OS when W64 shows up.
Also decide what games you intend playing, the xbox360 & PS3 vs low-power laptops may be a cheaper way to go, especially if you want a htpc rack component in the living room HDTV entertainment system, instead of traditional tower gaming OCed system.
Get a different Hard Drive as your primary. That harddrive would be a good secondary, but its kinda slow and how it is actually like a 80 GB HD that has coding to store info like it could hold 300 GB. So if you reformat your drive you would lose that coding and be back down to a lower grade HD.
I recommend this one:
Western Digital Raptor 150 GB 10kRPM HD.
Its a little pricey though. Anyways usually people use a Raptor HD as thier primary drive. It really doesn't need to be all to big, since it will mainly just house a few commonly used executables and windows; usually all the data is housed in a cheap secondary HD.
ohh ya and Thermaltake cases pwn. I would get a full tower thermaltake case if you can since the cooling on them is awesome. But they are costly like $100-$200.
Edit- I know I am waiting for this summer before rebuilding my new PC. So I can take advantage of the new CPU's and Windows Vista will be out soon so I won't have to buy Windows XP inbetween now and then.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
Well dunno why u want a nvidia card/Go check the benchmarks on x1800 and if u wanna spent more x1900.
They are cheaper and outperforming their nvidia counterpart.In short the 7900 was released as an answer to x1800/x1900 as this cards cleanly outperformed the 7800 and cost less in the process.
The 7900 benchmarks i seen does outdo the x1800 but loses to the x1900 in quite a few benchmarks and u know what it cost less again!
But considering the monitor you are getting no matter which of this cards you get you will not benefit fully from there.So unless you plan on getting a good TFT or high resolution CRT i suggest you get the x1600 its cheap and performs very well too and will play any mmorpg or game in the market.
As for processor i think dual core is certainly the way to go.Its future technology and cost just slightly more then the last series of 64bit processors.
But trust me go ATI on g.cards.I was a nvidia man myself and everyone who i introducted to ati never went back to nvidia.They perform better and cost less.
Also i would not go for sli really lets face it is it worth paying so much money for 2 g cards that will be outperformed in less then 1 year by a single card?Think not.
I have a friend who uses 2 6800gt sli and using my x850xt(agreed it was a mid series card though) i get better fps then him and he has same ram and processor as i do.And it was significantly cheap and less power useage,less heat .
I'm starting to look at building a new pc myself, though I have to wait till december (gettin a loan then, heh).
First of all, I know one of the guys above suggested going with an ATi card, and while I also hear that they slightly edge out in performance with similar models, I have to say everyone who says that overlooks a major thing. I used to use only nVidia, but was curious to try ati and right now I"m using a radeon 9550 that I was given as a gift. I plan to switch back to nvidia as soon as possible. Why? The biggest problem with ati is compatibility. I've never had any problems with my nvidia cards and games, but it seems that with about half the games out there, ati cards have driver problems or glitches or any other number of compatibility issues. To me, buying an nvidia card means you have that piece of mind that you know you won't have to work so hard just to get your gfx card to play the game you want.
One page I did find that's been helpful to me, is a page made by some guy on another forum. He has this page listing his current PC and why he bought the different parts, and also what he's planning to upgrade to later (sometimes anyways, heh). He's got good advice and I definately plan to use it when I build my pc.
You can check out his page at http://www.everbecoming.com/mypc.html
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Thanks to everyone for all the good advice.
One more question:
The AMD stuff... Ummm how does it compare to a Pentium processor? I know I head a couple years back that a AMD 2000 was similar in speed to about a 1.5 Ghz Pentium so basically subtract half a Ghz from the AMD. So would the AMD64 Dual core 4200 be about the same as TWO Pentium 4 3.7 Ghz processors? That sounds awfully powerful, especially for the price compared to two P4 3.6 or 3.7 chips. I've never used or owned an AMD, so this is why I ask. Thanks again.
- Zaxx
If you've already bought your motherboard, then you are locked in to AMD (socket 939 is the current Athlon socket).
And if you go with a dual core processor, you can't use the boxed heat sink...it won't cool enough under load. I usually read http://www.tomshardware.com for performance information on whatever I'm looking to buy.
As to dual core's being as good as two processors...programs haven't caught up to the new designs to fully utilize the dual-cores, but they will in the future. At current though a single core will perform just as well as a dual core with all current games.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
My advice? Your hard drive is absurd. If you actually need 300 gig of space, you would have been a lot better off buying 3x 100 gig hard drives and taking advantage of your motherboards RAID0 config. It may have cost more in the end, but even 2x 100 gig drives would have been a better choice and would more than double the performance.
smaller drives are rated better normally, they are faster, cheaper, and when combined with RAID0 are even that much more faster. People think all a hard drive is, is storage space. Just slap the biggest single physical drive you can in your PC and you'll be fine.
Bad idea. Smaller Multiple drives in a RAID0 are the way to go. Theres some very nice HD's out there which are smaller but perform like lightning even by themselves with like 8meg of cache.
however, for $100 thats a good price for a "storage" drive.. (keyword, storage.)
you should also consider another gig of ram
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Yeah Dualcore is a neat trick, but I would wait as well on these babies, they need more testing beyond the engineer's enclave. But, I will say once the bugs are worked out, I have no doubt their use will be common especially if they have not just a twin alu with a single control unit. If they have two control units that will literally double the command execution speed, which besides the use of two alu's, will help out with the structuring of commands.
On ram, one brand I tend to suggest is Rosewill, but if you want something that is CERTIFIED, I would go with Viking or the other major brands that do the testing with no extra fee. It costs almost at retail to go that route, but it saves the pain of either finding out your motherboard's BIOS can't take the ram, or that the ram had an issue in the factory process.
-- Bridget
06.04.06
A 17" monitor is not really viable for future gaming in the 1280x1024 sxga and beyond screen size, especially if it from that garage sale has a bunch of dead pixels already. But at least such a small monitor means no need for highend (expensive) gpu.
The HD (hard drive) consider an (8 to 16MB cache) 76GB ish 10k rpm fast spinning raptor as a system HD (containing the OS) and your main used programs and game, then stash other lesser used data on larger slower and cheaper 300GB ish data drives for back-ups (if you do not have dual layer DVD [20 to 50GB] burner for hard copy back-ups.) You really do not want two or even three hd constantly spinning in raid. Let those data hd stay in sleep mode to lesen noise and extend their life. Since your main programs & game is on the 10k rpm system hd especially in a sata2-pci express motherboard you will have nice transfer of data from the hd to system memory (eg. zoning, or pulling up reference info.) Not sure how much a footprint W64 will take up with it's +50 million lines of code but that OS aparently is the future in gaming with it's DX10 api.
Okay. I have went with a Athlon 64 X2 (dual core) 4200+ cpu, a Leadtek Nvidia 7900GT 256MB PCI express video card, and another GB of Ballistix Crucial memory from Micron. I also picked up a Microsoft wireless keyboard and mouse on sale for $44 ($89 reg price). So I believe that I have all the parts... except for maybe a Raptor WD 10,000 rpm hard drive some of you are suggesting. I plan on upgrading my monitor to a LCD flatscreen or atleat a hi-def flat screen CRT in the future months. At some point many months down the line, when the price drops, I might also buy another Leadtek 7900GT video card.. not sure yet.
But regardless, now I have everything coming in the mail that will be needed to assemble this beast. Wish me luck, as this will be my first time ever building a computer, heh.
Thanks again for all the advice given.
- Zaxx