You raise some valid points, and while I love the fact ESO doesn't have cooldowns, it doesn't alter the fact that the quality of polish surrounding combat, its animations, the reactions of NPC's and/or player characters is, in comparison to most of its competitors, rather poor. Default animations are stilted and choppy, while there's a distinct lack of fluidity between chaining your attacks (as well as animation cancelling).
Despite being a bow user, and as a player who has for many years pursued characters who use a bow, I'd like to consider myself well versed in dungeon etiquette and regularly change weapons the moment any enemy is upon me.
While I hope my understanding of ESO's combat and its nuances in comparison to other MMO's improves as I continue to play, it won't change the fundamentals of its polish or the satisfaction of landing a blow against an enemy. Sadly that can only be addressed by Zenimax.
I experience the same brief lag in ability between click and action. I reported it multiple times in beta and it's been the main reason I quit every time I try to go back.
You raise some valid points, and while I love the fact ESO doesn't have cooldowns, it doesn't alter the fact that the quality of polish surrounding combat, its animations, the reactions of NPC's and/or player characters is, in comparison to most of its competitors, rather poor. Default animations are stilted and choppy, while there's a distinct lack of fluidity between chaining your attacks (as well as animation cancelling).
Despite being a bow user, and as a player who has for many years pursued characters who use a bow, I'd like to consider myself well versed in dungeon etiquette and regularly change weapons the moment any enemy is upon me.
While I hope my understanding of ESO's combat and its nuances in comparison to other MMO's improves as I continue to play, it won't change the fundamentals of its polish or the satisfaction of landing a blow against an enemy. Sadly that can only be addressed by Zenimax.
I didn't mean to imply that you don't know how to play and use the bow in dungeons, so I hope you didn't take it that way. It was just a reaction to your mention of bow and my recent memories healing a few dungeon runs last night that got me off on my L2P bow sidetrack
I get that you're emphasizing the technical quality of animations and you have a point. But there is a range from bad to good and depending on your class, weapon and skill choices you could still have a vastly different experience if you're just starting and have seen only some of the skills of one class and one or two weapons. Try a stamina sorcerer using hurricane and dual wield abilities and contrast that to bow or 2HD and I think you'll see what I mean.
Also, to me the end-result of my actions factor greatly into my satisfaction. I can ignore awkward technical animations if the end result is that I demolish my enemy. But if you pair up a bad animation with poor results I'll hate everything about that skill including its animation. In a perfect world I'd want both but I'll take the result over the aesthetics every time.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
ESO's combat system is just dull and boring, imo. Sure, animations have some of the blame, but for whatever reason, I can't stand this combat system. Which is why I never got further the level 12 or 13 before giving up.
A huge beautiful world with tons of lore doesn't mean anything, when core functions doesn't appeal at all.
ESO's combat system is just dull and boring, imo. Sure, animations have some of the blame, but for whatever reason, I can't stand this combat system. Which is why I never got further the level 12 or 13 before giving up.
A huge beautiful world with tons of lore doesn't mean anything, when core functions doesn't appeal at all.
Thank's for making the point. You don't have enough abilities to even get a feel of the combat by level 12 or 13. The little you have seen is going to also be only from your class skill and weapon perspective which varies wildly based on your choices.
ESO's combat system is just dull and boring, imo. Sure, animations have some of the blame, but for whatever reason, I can't stand this combat system. Which is why I never got further the level 12 or 13 before giving up.
A huge beautiful world with tons of lore doesn't mean anything, when core functions doesn't appeal at all.
Thank's for making the point. You don't have enough abilities to even get a feel of the combat by level 12 or 13. The little you have seen is going to also be only from your class skill and weapon perspective which varies wildly based on your choices.
Maybe, but if they can't make it appealing enough at low levels to make players stay, then the system IS a poor one.
I thought most systems start you off with one or two skills which increase in number as you level. I admit the small number of skills available at one time is not good which is probably why a lot of players just pick a few and spam them. Feels like it was developed in anticipation of porting.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Must be a class/weapon issue, as with my Nightblade (dual-wield and Bow), my skill rotation feels smooth. My wife loves playing her DragonKnight as well and usually is horrible in combat in games, she's rather good at ESO. As for animations again with my toon and hers I don't notice anything too jarring or out of sync. I've seen better for sure, but far worse as well.
I always wonder if my lack of issues are a result of close proximity as well, as I live in MD.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I thought most systems start you off with one or two skills which increase in number as you level. I admit the small number of skills available at one time is not good which is probably why a lot of players just pick a few and spam them. Feels like it was developed in anticipation of porting.
There is no reason not to have 5 skills by level 5 - you get enough points and sky shards by that point: one skill from each of your 3 class skill lines, 1 skill from your weapon skill line and one additional skill from the one class skill line whose ultimate you want to unlock first since having 2 skills from one line in your bar unlocks that faster.
You can have that ultimate ability slotted by level 7 before you even leave the new player island.
After that you focus on adding passives that reduce the cost of abilities and regenerate your key resource faster and morphing your abilities to their better versions.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Must be a class/weapon issue, as with my Nightblade (dual-wield and Bow), my skill rotation feels smooth. My wife loves playing her DragonKnight as well and usually is horrible in combat in games, she's rather good at ESO. As for animations again with my toon and hers I don't notice anything too jarring or out of sync. I've seen better for sure, but far worse as well.
I always wonder if my lack of issues are a result of close proximity as well, as I live in MD.
You're the kind of Nightblade my healer likes. In 4-man dungeons, the safest spot to fight is usually near the tank wailing on the back of that boss that the tank turned around. I can easily heal through all but the most brutal red telegraphs as well.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I agree, I like everything else about ESO music, graphics, but combat animations puts me off. AOC had the same geriatric animations. Mostly those sliding ice skating feet is quite common with NA mmos, so bad. GW2 is fluid but the body positions are hilarious, check casting. Wow is just horrible but in it's defense years old.
Vindictus for me has the best animations along with a few other Asian mmos. Even with the overly sized weapons weight and size came into play with animations. Attention to detail is a plus in my mmo.
I never saw a problem with the combat, but TSW's combat didn't bother me either. However, animation cancelling does suck. I mean, it sucks that it's pretty much required for pvp and effective pve. It becomes a "skill" but I think it's actually just broken.
Tried to play the game when it was released but the combat turned me away from it in a few days. The fact that I've played many MMO's and this had the clunkiest combat was too big a hurdle to jump over to enjoy the actual game.
For me combat is a huge factor in any game, probably the biggest and if a game lacks in it it's not made for me.
For the best MMO combat I have to vote for wildstar. The reactive, skill based combat that actually responds immediately to your commands without input lag takes the victory. Tab targeting has its place in my books too..as a bit more strategic type if the skills are well designed. There are those tab targeting games where you do the same skill combinations over and over again while standing still..those have to be the worst.
I really don't have any issues with ESO's combat. The animations I will say are underwhelming....but functionally combat is great. I REALLY don't get the complaint about speed when there's no CD on anything period. You can literally spam whatever whenever.
Heat seeking arrows and spells, getting hit by invisible melee yards away, slow reaction time, not to mention just plain looks awkward.
it is so weird how opinions vary. combat is what draws me to ESO; it is AWESOME! Cryodiil is full and the pvp raids are gigantic... meaning many love the combat. other like the cartoony combat of WoW and GW2, but it is that block/dodge/roll, light, heavy, action bar skill combat I love so much in pve and pvp ESO... I think you have to be able to think WAY faster in ESO compared to other mmorpgs I've played. I've even see some complain of combat latency when they are locked down by cc and stuff... LOL. I get it that ESO has a kinda design of its own, but lol it is FUN!! so many peepz and new peepz talking in /zone in Cryodiil about how it is the most fun they've had since mmorpg'n.
I played GW2 and FFXIV and died of boredom, but that is just me... I can't stand the cartoony look that SO many mmorpgs have.
Torval said: I've not done formal dungeons so I probably suck at that.
My ESO play style is similar to yours. I do pvp in Cyro with guild once a week for small group play. I also go in and solo once in a while joining up with zerg pug groups. Also can go in and try out some gank builds (youtube).
Normally, I'm not a big dungeon runner, but I found ESO's dungeons to be really fun. I don't run them that often and my play time's been down lately, but I think it's work checking them out.
Torval said: I've not done formal dungeons so I probably suck at that.
My ESO play style is similar to yours. I do pvp in Cyro with guild once a week for small group play. I also go in and solo once in a while joining up with zerg pug groups. Also can go in and try out some gank builds (youtube).
Normally, I'm not a big dungeon runner, but I found ESO's dungeons to be really fun. I don't run them that often and my play time's been down lately, but I think it's work checking them out.
I used not to run too many dungeons but lately I've become obsessed with getting some of the better monster mask/shoulder pairs so I've been running a lot of them. I'll get back to PVPing again soon but for now it's all about that good loot for me
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Must be a class/weapon issue, as with my Nightblade (dual-wield and Bow), my skill rotation feels smooth. My wife loves playing her DragonKnight as well and usually is horrible in combat in games, she's rather good at ESO. As for animations again with my toon and hers I don't notice anything too jarring or out of sync. I've seen better for sure, but far worse as well.
I always wonder if my lack of issues are a result of close proximity as well, as I live in MD.
My current is a magicka dual staff (destro/resto) nightblade. It's so fun and versatile. Anyway, sometimes if I'm feeling heavily pressured in a fight and I'm not timing my attacks well (going too fast) I'll get really choppy ineffective game play. I like that I have the freedom to do that, but where most MMOs are set up not only to manage cooldowns for you they allow you to queue skills. In ESO if you start down that road it's going to be a rough choppy battle.
In short ESO combat can be challenging because you have to think ahead but can only act in the moment. In most MMOs you can think and queue skills a bit ahead of time.
If you and your wife every need a third healer or another damage dealer look me up. I mostly solo and play public dungeons and dolmens. I've not done formal dungeons so I probably suck at that.
If you want to to start running dungeons (and that goes for Distopia and Mrs. Distopia too) just find me in game. I know most of them pretty well by now and can easily walk you through some of the trickier fights.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
SWTOR, REPOPULATION, ESO, etc. Hero Engine seems to have been a plague on the MMORPG world. I hope that future MMO engine creators will learn the lessons and be superior in all ways to Hero.
If you are having issues with connectivity I would suggest checking your upstream your latency and your wireless strength if you are using wireless you really aren't a gamer are you yet? hmm? If you are using wired and you're not on a service that has at least 16 channels on your modem then you need an upgrade.
If I didn't know better I would say this is a troll post. It's the best combat on the market for my money. Nothing feels as good as going toe to so with another in ESO. We maybe toe to toe with 2.
Comments
You raise some valid points, and while I love the fact ESO doesn't have cooldowns, it doesn't alter the fact that the quality of polish surrounding combat, its animations, the reactions of NPC's and/or player characters is, in comparison to most of its competitors, rather poor. Default animations are stilted and choppy, while there's a distinct lack of fluidity between chaining your attacks (as well as animation cancelling).
Despite being a bow user, and as a player who has for many years pursued characters who use a bow, I'd like to consider myself well versed in dungeon etiquette and regularly change weapons the moment any enemy is upon me.
While I hope my understanding of ESO's combat and its nuances in comparison to other MMO's improves as I continue to play, it won't change the fundamentals of its polish or the satisfaction of landing a blow against an enemy. Sadly that can only be addressed by Zenimax.
I get that you're emphasizing the technical quality of animations and you have a point. But there is a range from bad to good and depending on your class, weapon and skill choices you could still have a vastly different experience if you're just starting and have seen only some of the skills of one class and one or two weapons. Try a stamina sorcerer using hurricane and dual wield abilities and contrast that to bow or 2HD and I think you'll see what I mean.
Also, to me the end-result of my actions factor greatly into my satisfaction. I can ignore awkward technical animations if the end result is that I demolish my enemy. But if you pair up a bad animation with poor results I'll hate everything about that skill including its animation. In a perfect world I'd want both but I'll take the result over the aesthetics every time.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
ESO's combat system is just dull and boring, imo. Sure, animations have some of the blame, but for whatever reason, I can't stand this combat system. Which is why I never got further the level 12 or 13 before giving up.
A huge beautiful world with tons of lore doesn't mean anything, when core functions doesn't appeal at all.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
Maybe, but if they can't make it appealing enough at low levels to make players stay, then the system IS a poor one.
I admit the small number of skills available at one time is not good which is probably why a lot of players just pick a few and spam them. Feels like it was developed in anticipation of porting.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I always wonder if my lack of issues are a result of close proximity as well, as I live in MD.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You can have that ultimate ability slotted by level 7 before you even leave the new player island.
After that you focus on adding passives that reduce the cost of abilities and regenerate your key resource faster and morphing your abilities to their better versions.
I wrote an extensive basic tutorial on how to get started the right way in ESO a couple of weeks ago: http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/457732/the-fundamentals-of-developing-a-character-in-eso#latest
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
For me combat is a huge factor in any game, probably the biggest and if a game lacks in it it's not made for me.
For the best MMO combat I have to vote for wildstar. The reactive, skill based combat that actually responds immediately to your commands without input lag takes the victory. Tab targeting has its place in my books too..as a bit more strategic type if the skills are well designed. There are those tab targeting games where you do the same skill combinations over and over again while standing still..those have to be the worst.
Heat seeking arrows and spells, getting hit by invisible melee yards away, slow reaction time, not to mention just plain looks awkward.
I played GW2 and FFXIV and died of boredom, but that is just me... I can't stand the cartoony look that SO many mmorpgs have.
Sz
Normally, I'm not a big dungeon runner, but I found ESO's dungeons to be really fun. I don't run them that often and my play time's been down lately, but I think it's work checking them out.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Same name in game as here: @Iselin
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
ESO doesn't use hero engine though.
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/25/why-the-elder-scrolls-online-isn-39-t-using-heroengine.aspx
The rest of us aren't having an issue.