Oh please. No one buys an mmo planning to shut it down. Where's the money in it? Selling off parts? What parts? ridiculous. <snip>
You have to think like CN.
From their perspective they fundamentally bought two things from Sony:
1. A revenue stream - from various launched games: EQ1, EQ2 etc. Bringing in $X revenue at a cost of $Y. They will have looked at the (financial) books, made some projections about future revenue and costs - factoring in lay-offs etc. - and agreed a price with Sony.
2. A gamble called EQN. They will have had presentations, been given cash projection and "told" it could be finished in "a year". A "year" because if it had been years they would have closed in as soon as they took over rather than "squander" money on and we had the year of EQN comment from Brad. They will presumably have factored this investment / gamble into the the price they paid Sony.
As we know when DBG said "we still need more time and money" unlike Sony CN said you have had your year and shut it down. In financial terms: stopped the bleeding.
There will have been no plans for developing new games. Maybe - in the future - if things work out really well .... maybe. That would be a bonus.
And of course there will have been an assessment on what they might get for any IP stuff - in which Sony may still have a share who knows. The most obvious chunk however - DCUO - is complicated as it involves both WarnerBros and DC Comics.
Bottomline SoE could just as easily have been a garden tool factory going broke! Or whatever. That they made games - an "insignificant" detail.
MJ at MassivelyOP said it was her opinion based on various dev rumors that the code base was so jumbled, with lack of understanding what was fully going on by the devs that had no hand in creating it, that patching was patching patches on patches. New content could break the game and it was a coding nightmare.
CN bought SOE, have made their money on H1Z1 and other stuff in the portfolio, now it is time to sell off the games, the IPs and anything else worth money and move on.
That is what "vulture" capital firms do and what they are.
Vanguard: The greatest MMO that 100 people ever played. Face it, it's never coming back.
And it shouldn't.
Vanguard concept is going to brought back by Pantheon. Instead reviving Vanguard, I rather wanna see the concept gets rewritten into a new game, with newer techs and approaches.
The product indeed will never see another sunrise, but creative minds behind it are yet to cease, and that's all the matter.
When you don't want the truth, you will make up your own truth.
I am more sad than anything that a once great studio is slowly wasting away while it chips away at Everquest and Everquest 2. I suppose at the end of all this I will be left with just fond memories of these games. I have mixed feeling about them selling off the IP. Afraid it may get butchered even further if they sell it to another company.
That's pretty much it for Daybreak/SoE. Columbus Nova will begin the Asset Strip mining and sell off, no doubt the EQ franchise ends up in EA, NCSoft, Ubisoft or Activisions hands by some point next year.
Here's a question for you that will determine the outcome of your inquiry(and I've an idea you already know the answer): "Does it make any economic sense for them to do this?"
Yes. With properly itemized in-game shop that see cosmetics and life is easier packages, the game could hold out better then Everquest 2 .No one , and I mean no one has explored the entire Vangaurd world. Add in almost any where housing and city creation inside the gme world, the game ould strive for the crafting and in game currency / politics it was truy designed to do.
Atmost , sell the IP and let someone try.....
So how big was the community compared to EQ2 at the time that VG died?
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
CN bought SOE, have made their money on H1Z1 and other stuff in the portfolio, now it is time to sell off the games, the IPs and anything else worth money and move on.
That is what "vulture" capital firms do and what they are.
The end game is always everything gets sold off.
H1Z1 was launched before CN bought SoE. Will have been factored into the price they paid.
Factor in that CN will have spent money on EQN - paying staff etc. - for which they have gotten zero return on their investment and I suspect they are far from realising a return yet.
And Sony won't have "given away" the revenue stream.
CN bought SOE, have made their money on H1Z1 and other stuff in the portfolio, now it is time to sell off the games, the IPs and anything else worth money and move on.
That is what "vulture" capital firms do and what they are.
The end game is always everything gets sold off.
H1Z1 was launched before CN bought SoE. Will have been factored into the price they paid.
Factor in that CN will have spent money on EQN - paying staff etc. - for which they have gotten zero return on their investment and I suspect they are far from realising a return yet.
And Sony won't have "given away" the revenue stream.
Nah.
They sold a ton of copies of H1Z1, as I said, after the sale, the year+ of early release was in there.
CN got all those box sales, plus the sub/cash shop money from EQ1/2/whatever else, has made back what it wanted, and now it will get what returns it can for what is left.
Sony does not figure into this at all. It all was sold to CN.
That's pretty much it for Daybreak/SoE. Columbus Nova will begin the Asset Strip mining and sell off, no doubt the EQ franchise ends up in EA, NCSoft, Ubisoft or Activisions hands by some point next year.
A sad end to a storied company.
Not really.
Smed ran SOE into the ground over a decade+ and this is the inevitable result.
SOE sold, Smed fired, most of the senior people fired, games in development canceled, all that is left is to sell off the rest.
That is the way vulture capital companies work, and it will be no different here.
CN bought SOE, have made their money on H1Z1 and other stuff in the portfolio, now it is time to sell off the games, the IPs and anything else worth money and move on.
That is what "vulture" capital firms do and what they are.
The end game is always everything gets sold off.
H1Z1 was launched before CN bought SoE. Will have been factored into the price they paid.
Factor in that CN will have spent money on EQN - paying staff etc. - for which they have gotten zero return on their investment and I suspect they are far from realising a return yet.
And Sony won't have "given away" the revenue stream.
Nah.
They sold a ton of copies of H1Z1, as I said, after the sale, the year+ of early release was in there.
CN got all those box sales, plus the sub/cash shop money from EQ1/2/whatever else, has made back what it wanted, and now it will get what returns it can for what is left.
Sony does not figure into this at all. It all was sold to CN.
The games, the IPs, the old code, the works.
It will be interesting to see who buys what, but your right at this point i don't think Sony is involved at any level, for games using licensed IP such as DCUO, i don't know, but there are a few games that DBG has that are viable, to some degree or other, and perhaps with a new 'owner' might improve, namely Planetside 2, at this point i don't think EQ1 or 2 are huge factors but who knows, there might be some interest somewhere. Personally i think CN are just going to realise whatever they can from the remaining assets that DBG has.
This was inevitable and I can't say that I care. SOE/DBG has spent years abusing their position, over-hyping, under-delivering and outright lying to the mmo community. It's ironic to see a company that's spent so much time and effort gutting their playerbase get gutted.
MJ at MassivelyOP said it was her opinion based on various dev rumors that the code base was so jumbled, with lack of understanding what was fully going on by the devs that had no hand in creating it, that patching was patching patches on patches. New content could break the game and it was a coding nightmare.
Most likely don't do as much research and reading as me but if they did,they would realize this business knows nothing about gaming and were NEVER going to amount to much.
To get into the game industry,you have to be SERIOUS about game development.First of allSmedley is not serious and has not been since EQ1 and the first beginning of EQ2,since then all greed no care for quality.
Then with Smedley gone some might have thought ,ok now we can move forward.Hpowever cancelling Next proved this team is on a short leash,a short budget and NOT willing to take any risk at all,in other words,not serious about gaming,ONLY serious about business and money.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This news is movement of something it would seem though I'd have to say since Shanks and Ham have/had been co-president for almost a year and a half this may have been the plan all along. Seems like a waste of money to have two acting presidents.
If DGC is staying intact they still have to do something at this point. There is still 22 jobs posted, 5 regarding an "unannounced title." I'd like to see them double down on EQ and announce a revamp, however unlikely, and at least open up one server for FR and VG with the understanding that they will not be getting any updates. Make this part of the All Access plan and I imagine before store purchases it would garner more than it would cost.
Another strange issue is all the extra content from EQN not seen in Landmark. You'd think if they really wanted to get the most from LM and they didn't have long-term plans they would have released store bought "packs" of the various racial contests they held. A ton of structures were created. I guess we'll know one way of the other at some point.
CN bought SOE, have made their money on H1Z1 and other stuff in the portfolio, now it is time to sell off the games, the IPs and anything else worth money and move on.
That is what "vulture" capital firms do and what they are.
The end game is always everything gets sold off.
H1Z1 was launched before CN bought SoE. Will have been factored into the price they paid.
Factor in that CN will have spent money on EQN - paying staff etc. - for which they have gotten zero return on their investment and I suspect they are far from realising a return yet.
And Sony won't have "given away" the revenue stream.
Nah. They sold a ton of copies of H1Z1, as I said, after the sale, the year+ of early release was in there. CN got all those box sales, plus the sub/cash shop money from EQ1/2/whatever else, has made back what it wanted, and now it will get what returns it can for what is left. Sony does not figure into this at all. It all was sold to CN. The games, the IPs, the old code, the works.
H1Z1. First it hasn't set the world on fire. Second - according to the Steam stats - H1Z1's highest sales were at launch - not unusual - which was before the take over. Not that it matters.
As I said the price that CN will have paid Sony will have taken into account "actual + anticipated sales". Sony will have said we expect it to sell M copies we want $Y. CN will have said "hang on there it might only sell N copies" we will offer you $Y. And they will have agreed a conditional price.
Can I be certain? No. This is how these things are usually done though with some sort of performance based payment formula(e). Bottomline: CN will not have made a "ton" of money but equally they will not have lost a "ton" of money either. If the titles did well CN would end up paying more - up to a point; if the titles did less well they would ultimately pay less.
As to what they bought:
As far as DCUO goes it is owned in partnership with WarnerBros and DC Comics so it cannot have been sold in total.
Everything else - yes except maybe when it came to the EQ IP.
Now if you have a source fine. If not consider that a) we were told there was a higher offer on the table - we can't verify this but it was said b) what value would anyone place on the EQ IP?
Sony might have wanted lots, CN probably wanted to pay very little. This could have been resolved however in various ways e.g. an indefinite lease for the existing titles and/or some sort of royalty for future developments. such solutions would ensure that a) CN didn't pay lots so they were happy b) Sony execs didn't end up with egg on their face due to having done a "Star Wars" i.e. selling the IP on the cheap. For me this would explain why Sony might have accepted a lower (cash) offer.
I suspect this is the initial move towards breaking off chunks of what remains of DBG and selling them off before turning off the lights and walking away.
I'll always have fond memories of EQ, EQ2, and yes, even H1Z1. I believe the MMORPG historians among us will always give SOE their due. They weren't the first (M59, UO), they didn't make the genre mainstream (WoW), but they were an important part of the machinery none the less in their own way.
Ideally I would love to see the EQ IP sold off to a studio that would finally let me play my beloved Shadow Knight again, but I'm not holding my breath. Every year the franchise gets older, more antiquated and less relevant to the up-and-coming youth gamer demographic.
In 2017, all of SOE's MMOs will be shut down. LOTRO won't be renewed.
LOTRO is a HUGE MMO that is very likely to not exist after next year. SOE's MMOs are massive, TONS of content, no MMO in existence has the amount of content EQ1 and EQ2 do for PVE players. They also have a LOT of MMOs.
Us mmorpg.com forum users were right! This is the apocalyptic event in the MMO genre. From the ashes, either MMOs will be made great again. Or MMOs will just die off and other genres (like I said above, Ark being a huge one that many MMO players moved to) will explode in popularity as they already are.
This isn't the kind of apocalyptic event I hoped for though. SOE MMOs are actually really good. But maybe it needs to happen to collapse the MMO genre, so they can go back to being made great again.
SOE doesn't even own the rights to LOTRO-you're thinking of Time Warner and Turbine.
In 2017, all of SOE's MMOs will be shut down. LOTRO won't be renewed.
LOTRO is a HUGE MMO that is very likely to not exist after next year. SOE's MMOs are massive, TONS of content, no MMO in existence has the amount of content EQ1 and EQ2 do for PVE players. They also have a LOT of MMOs.
Us mmorpg.com forum users were right! This is the apocalyptic event in the MMO genre. From the ashes, either MMOs will be made great again. Or MMOs will just die off and other genres (like I said above, Ark being a huge one that many MMO players moved to) will explode in popularity as they already are.
This isn't the kind of apocalyptic event I hoped for though. SOE MMOs are actually really good. But maybe it needs to happen to collapse the MMO genre, so they can go back to being made great again.
SOE doesn't even own the rights to LOTRO-you're thinking of Time Warner and Turbine.
Yes. But Mordor is very likely to be the end of LOTRO anyway, so it be a good way for Turbine to end LOTRO and have it not be renewed. I mean, there is literally nothing else after Mordor for them to do. That is the end of the books. Which coincides with them not renewing LOTRO.
What I meant, is SOE's MMOs will be likely sold/shut down next year. If sold, probably to crappy companies. An investment company doesn't care who it sells to, just wants money.
Then on top of that. Next year LOTRO is very likely (not 100% of course) to not be renewed, and Mordor will be the last expansion, as it was in the books.
That makes multiple MMOs closing in 2016, or in SOE's case, their IPs being sold to other companies (which still doesn't guarantee that it won't be shut down anyway). The most MMOs being sold/shut down I ever read about in one single year.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
It means they couldn't afford to pay Shanks, so they had to let him go. I'd say you could expect even less out of the EQ franchise now, but that doesn't seem possible.
Comments
From their perspective they fundamentally bought two things from Sony:
1. A revenue stream - from various launched games: EQ1, EQ2 etc.
Bringing in $X revenue at a cost of $Y. They will have looked at the (financial) books, made some projections about future revenue and costs - factoring in lay-offs etc. - and agreed a price with Sony.
2. A gamble called EQN. They will have had presentations, been given cash projection and "told" it could be finished in "a year". A "year" because if it had been years they would have closed in as soon as they took over rather than "squander" money on and we had the year of EQN comment from Brad. They will presumably have factored this investment / gamble into the the price they paid Sony.
As we know when DBG said "we still need more time and money" unlike Sony CN said you have had your year and shut it down. In financial terms: stopped the bleeding.
There will have been no plans for developing new games. Maybe - in the future - if things work out really well .... maybe. That would be a bonus.
And of course there will have been an assessment on what they might get for any IP stuff - in which Sony may still have a share who knows. The most obvious chunk however - DCUO - is complicated as it involves both WarnerBros and DC Comics.
Bottomline SoE could just as easily have been a garden tool factory going broke! Or whatever. That they made games - an "insignificant" detail.
MJ at MassivelyOP said it was her opinion based on various dev rumors that the code base was so jumbled, with lack of understanding what was fully going on by the devs that had no hand in creating it, that patching was patching patches on patches. New content could break the game and it was a coding nightmare.
Go see what Brad and crew are doing with https://www.pantheonmmo.com/
twitch.tv/itpaladin
@ITPalg
YouTube: ITPalGame
CN bought SOE, have made their money on H1Z1 and other stuff in the portfolio, now it is time to sell off the games, the IPs and anything else worth money and move on.
That is what "vulture" capital firms do and what they are.
The end game is always everything gets sold off.
And it shouldn't.
Vanguard concept is going to brought back by Pantheon. Instead reviving Vanguard, I rather wanna see the concept gets rewritten into a new game, with newer techs and approaches.
The product indeed will never see another sunrise, but creative minds behind it are yet to cease, and that's all the matter.
When you don't want the truth, you will make up your own truth.
A sad end to a storied company.
So how big was the community compared to EQ2 at the time that VG died?
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Factor in that CN will have spent money on EQN - paying staff etc. - for which they have gotten zero return on their investment and I suspect they are far from realising a return yet.
And Sony won't have "given away" the revenue stream.
They sold a ton of copies of H1Z1, as I said, after the sale, the year+ of early release was in there.
CN got all those box sales, plus the sub/cash shop money from EQ1/2/whatever else, has made back what it wanted, and now it will get what returns it can for what is left.
Sony does not figure into this at all. It all was sold to CN.
The games, the IPs, the old code, the works.
Smed ran SOE into the ground over a decade+ and this is the inevitable result.
SOE sold, Smed fired, most of the senior people fired, games in development canceled, all that is left is to sell off the rest.
That is the way vulture capital companies work, and it will be no different here.
Personally i think CN are just going to realise whatever they can from the remaining assets that DBG has.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
To get into the game industry,you have to be SERIOUS about game development.First of allSmedley is not serious and has not been since EQ1 and the first beginning of EQ2,since then all greed no care for quality.
Then with Smedley gone some might have thought ,ok now we can move forward.Hpowever cancelling Next proved this team is on a short leash,a short budget and NOT willing to take any risk at all,in other words,not serious about gaming,ONLY serious about business and money.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This news is movement of something it would seem though I'd have to say since Shanks and Ham have/had been co-president for almost a year and a half this may have been the plan all along. Seems like a waste of money to have two acting presidents.
If DGC is staying intact they still have to do something at this point. There is still 22 jobs posted, 5 regarding an "unannounced title." I'd like to see them double down on EQ and announce a revamp, however unlikely, and at least open up one server for FR and VG with the understanding that they will not be getting any updates. Make this part of the All Access plan and I imagine before store purchases it would garner more than it would cost.
Another strange issue is all the extra content from EQN not seen in Landmark. You'd think if they really wanted to get the most from LM and they didn't have long-term plans they would have released store bought "packs" of the various racial contests they held. A ton of structures were created. I guess we'll know one way of the other at some point.
H1Z1. First it hasn't set the world on fire. Second - according to the Steam stats - H1Z1's highest sales were at launch - not unusual - which was before the take over. Not that it matters.
As I said the price that CN will have paid Sony will have taken into account "actual + anticipated sales". Sony will have said we expect it to sell M copies we want $Y. CN will have said "hang on there it might only sell N copies" we will offer you $Y. And they will have agreed a conditional price.
Can I be certain? No. This is how these things are usually done though with some sort of performance based payment formula(e). Bottomline: CN will not have made a "ton" of money but equally they will not have lost a "ton" of money either. If the titles did well CN would end up paying more - up to a point; if the titles did less well they would ultimately pay less.
As to what they bought:
As far as DCUO goes it is owned in partnership with WarnerBros and DC Comics so it cannot have been sold in total.
Everything else - yes except maybe when it came to the EQ IP.
Now if you have a source fine. If not consider that a) we were told there was a higher offer on the table - we can't verify this but it was said b) what value would anyone place on the EQ IP?
Sony might have wanted lots, CN probably wanted to pay very little. This could have been resolved however in various ways e.g. an indefinite lease for the existing titles and/or some sort of royalty for future developments. such solutions would ensure that a) CN didn't pay lots so they were happy b) Sony execs didn't end up with egg on their face due to having done a "Star Wars" i.e. selling the IP on the cheap. For me this would explain why Sony might have accepted a lower (cash) offer.
I'll always have fond memories of EQ, EQ2, and yes, even H1Z1. I believe the MMORPG historians among us will always give SOE their due. They weren't the first (M59, UO), they didn't make the genre mainstream (WoW), but they were an important part of the machinery none the less in their own way.
Ideally I would love to see the EQ IP sold off to a studio that would finally let me play my beloved Shadow Knight again, but I'm not holding my breath. Every year the franchise gets older, more antiquated and less relevant to the up-and-coming youth gamer demographic.
RIP - thanks for the good times.
SOE doesn't even own the rights to LOTRO-you're thinking of Time Warner and Turbine.
Smile
What I meant, is SOE's MMOs will be likely sold/shut down next year. If sold, probably to crappy companies. An investment company doesn't care who it sells to, just wants money.
Then on top of that. Next year LOTRO is very likely (not 100% of course) to not be renewed, and Mordor will be the last expansion, as it was in the books.
That makes multiple MMOs closing in 2016, or in SOE's case, their IPs being sold to other companies (which still doesn't guarantee that it won't be shut down anyway). The most MMOs being sold/shut down I ever read about in one single year.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul