Development in your hands

toljar · December 2016

Hey everyone,

I have a question for you all:

If you were to design a MMORPG now days, what features from past or present would you absolutely want to include? Think of the things from all the MMORPGs you played in the past, what really stuck out?

MMOman101 · December 2016

For more than a few years I have been saying that features lists are what is wrong with this genera. People think features make games, and they don't. A feature in and of it self is nothing. The implementation of the feature is what is important. Or more accurately it is the emotional reaction to the game that is important.

Housing is a good example of a feature that can be included or excluded and some people have strong feeling about. Stating housing is a feature I want in a game is about useless. What I would really want it the emotional response that my idea of housing brings. Maybe I like housing because it helps me feel more apart of the game world. Maybe it is because I like decorating and making things look cool. Maybe it is because I like having a spot all my own to control in the game world. There are many different reasons.

Housing itself is just a means to an emotional reaction. The emotional reaction is what ties people to the game.

the better question to ask is not what features do players want. It is what emotional reactions keep players active in game. How can we design features in a way to solicit those emotional reactions.

If we are really being honest with are self the question we would ask is how can create emotional reactions that separate people from their money short an long term. That may be a little cynical for this topic.

DreadTooth · December 2016

Real world-type possibilities. You can steal because you are physically capable. You can kill anyone because you are physically capable. You can fall off a cliff because you are physically capable. You can fall into a hole because you are physically capable. You can accidently have your fingers chopped off by a butcher's knife because you are physically capable. Traveling in groups should be considered by players, as well as using tact and good judgment. Traveling solo comes with its advantages and disadvantages and all possibilities should be considered by the player.

Real world-type consequences. If you steal and are seen, you are labeled a thief. If you kill, whether you are seen or whether someone uses forensic skills to detect who committed the murder (Ultima Online had the skill but it served no consequential purpose other than the detective knowing who killed and who died), you are labeled a murderer. If you commit a crime or are a known criminal, NPC guards or other characters will only react if they see you. Rumors can be spread through NPCs and in NPC chat near players. Players can act as detectives, police, etc. to detect, track, and prosecute crimes. Players can be jailed or imprisoned for their crimes (also Ultima Online, but usually only by a Game Master). If you are maimed, it is a permanent disfigurement or disability (there must be a way to make this only mostly permanent and somehow fixable, either by magic, medicine or technology, most likely at high cost and/or hard to come by).

No instances. The world should not need to load before you can enter it. This includes dungeons, houses, cities, and all areas of the game world, including space if that is the part of the genre being played.

I am sure there are more things I would include, but those are the ones I am sad to have seen gone away. The inability to steal and PK, the inability to have penalties for said stealing and PKing, and it seems even open-world games still use instances (loading zones) for the dungeons or raid areas. It has been done before, no loading zones whatsoever, and I am sure it exists somewhere today, however in my opinion all of these features need to be a standard in games today.

Loke666 · December 2016

Hmmm, player owned shops, Dynamic event chains, true darkness (that forces you to use torches), hit detection in combat (AoC used this)...

I would actually try to stay as far away from other games mechanic wise as possible. Pick too many features from a game and you loose that "new game" feeling something far away from anything you ever played before have. I don't want a game where you know exactly how to play and what to expect, there are already far too many games like that.

Like when I tried Runes of Magic or Rift, not bad games but it felt like I already played them so I tired very fast. If I should make something it would be very different and build on my pen and paper experience (which BTW is what Garriot did when he made UO).

free2play · December 2016

I'd be happy with SWG gathering and scaled crafting that came with it. Even in the NGE version, low level Naboo mobs were worth killing if Naboo leather had high stats that week.

toljar · December 2016

This is great information, thanks guys! Talking to people over the years, it seems like they miss the RPG from MMORPG's. Most the games have just turned into daily quests and raiding, and they miss the large world feeling.

waynejr2 · December 2016

toljar said:

Hey everyone,

I have a question for you all:

If you were to design a MMORPG now days, what features from past or present would you absolutely want to include? Think of the things from all the MMORPGs you played in the past, what really stuck out?

Wow, we seem to get a thread like this every week or two. How about nothing. Or, read the other threads.

Octagon7711 · December 2016

I like the the general features they have in 'The Division' but would like it applied to the secret society concept in 'The Secret World'. If that makes any sense.

toljar · December 2016

waynejr2 said:

toljar said:

Hey everyone,

I have a question for you all:

If you were to design a MMORPG now days, what features from past or present would you absolutely want to include? Think of the things from all the MMORPGs you played in the past, what really stuck out?

Wow, we seem to get a thread like this every week or two. How about nothing. Or, read the other threads.

Because the thread I created I can reference back to in the future for my own reasoning. Also, because those threads get buried and some people did not get a chance to contribute to them, whiles others did. But, I see how far your contribution goes...

rafaelquerido1 · December 2016

toljar said:

This is great information, thanks guys! Talking to people over the years, it seems like they miss the RPG from MMORPG's. Most the games have just turned into daily quests and raiding, and they miss the large world feeling.

I've played Tibia for a long time and I miss adventures and the secrets about the game.
It was so difficult to up levels and you always needed a team to make funny things.

Now, its a pay to win game and who pay more... take more levels.
Try to use teamplay! In my opinion, this is the best.

Quizzical · December 2016

As I see it, the more interesting question is not what you want to do that has been done before. It's what you want to do that hasn't been done before.

free2play · December 2016

Quizzical said:

As I see it, the more interesting question is not what you want to do that has been done before. It's what you want to do that hasn't been done before.

Hasn't been done in an MMO? I want to build a golf course. Admission is free, here is a donation box at the club house. Level up your strength and stamina in a real mini game.

Kilrain · December 2016

I love how people come in with snarky remarks thinking they matter or something. A simple question requires a simple answer, or you move on to a different topic. Acting like an ass just gets you ignored.

From existing features I would exclude all instancing. I like open world over zones, but that can be fine if the zones are built correctly and make sense when traveling between them. Real quests again (Everquest) without trackers and exclamation points. What we see mostly now are tasks. Tasks are fine, but the implementation needs to be done right. I feel LOTRO did tasks better than anyone. Everquest and the Secret World did them right. I prefer twitch based combat, but something like AoC wasn't too bad. I would be happy with that style of combat.

To get any deeper than that would require a lot more typing than I have time for tonight. I really think there are a lot of modern "conveniences" that ruin a lot of the enjoyment I get from games, so I would be very picky as to which I included and which I did not.

4507 · December 2016

Features that exist in current MMOs, existed in MMOs that are no longer active or are promised to exist in upcoming MMOs:

-Impactful day, night, weather and season system
-Open World PvP with a limited number of small safe zones but harsh penalties for mindless killing/ganking
-Full loot
-Real time blocking (no automatic defense stat that makes even AFK high levels unkillable)
-Smaller updates released more frequently with no price to access them
-Every mob is different in terms of most effective attack and defense strategy due to differences in weaknesses, strengths, attack style, etc
-Deep crafting system with each material having a quality level which, along with player skill while actually crafing, determines crafted item quality
-Best gear comes from crafters and degrades with use, eventually requiring repair or replacement
-Higher quality but less numerous quests with rewards that are in line with the rewards from other activites that could've been done during that time, focused around telling the story/lore to those who care but for no or little advantage over non questers
-Non instanced dungeons/raids
-Mounted combat, and no 'puff of smoke' mount appearances (must use stables)
-Person to person trade system so market centers pop up in logical places dictated by player movements
-Player aging and death
-Skill based combat not defined by stats and abilities (those should have only about a 30% impact in the outcome of a fight, with the other 70% being skill of the players involved)
-Holiday/limitied time events and content that gives discontinued rares (but with only aesthetic benefits)
-Non instanced open world housing system that allows other players to attack, steal from and occupy your house
-AFK progression, but actually playing is more efficient (logged out you might gain 15k XP/hr, but logged in you could easily gain 60k XP/hr)
-Breeding system for mounts and pets
-Sailing in open world oceans and lakes in player built and manned vessels
-Believable lore and world (i.e. no minotaurs living on a 90° incline, 300ft tall bluff with a single elevator to the top)

Features that I would specifically make sure I did not have:

-Microtractions of any kind (even cosmetic-only rubs me the wrong way)
-PvE gear treadmill
-Medieval fantasy setting (just medieval is fine, but I am done with orcs and elves)
-Automated group finder
-Boring grind (if I couldn't make levelling fun I just wouldn't include levels)
-Mandatory story quests
-Questing as the best method of advancement
-Daily quests

That's all I can think of for now. Keep in mind that these entries are in no particular order and are certainly not exhaustive.

toljar · December 2016

4507 said:

Features that exist in current MMOs, existed in MMOs that are no longer active or are promised to exist in upcoming MMOs:

-Impactful day, night, weather and season system
-Open World PvP with a limited number of small safe zones but harsh penalties for mindless killing/ganking
-Full loot
-Real time blocking (no automatic defense stat that makes even AFK high levels unkillable)
-Smaller updates released more frequently with no price to access them
-Every mob is different in terms of most effective attack and defense strategy due to differences in weaknesses, strengths, attack style, etc
-Deep crafting system with each material having a quality level which, along with player skill while actually crafing, determines crafted item quality
-Best gear comes from crafters and degrades with use, eventually requiring repair or replacement
-Higher quality but less numerous quests with rewards that are in line with the rewards from other activites that could've been done during that time, focused around telling the story/lore to those who care but for no or little advantage over non questers
-Non instanced dungeons/raids
-Mounted combat, and no 'puff of smoke' mount appearances (must use stables)
-Person to person trade system so market centers pop up in logical places dictated by player movements
-Player aging and death
-Skill based combat not defined by stats and abilities (those should have only about a 30% impact in the outcome of a fight, with the other 70% being skill of the players involved)
-Holiday/limitied time events and content that gives discontinued rares (but with only aesthetic benefits)
-Non instanced open world housing system that allows other players to attack, steal from and occupy your house
-AFK progression, but actually playing is more efficient (logged out you might gain 15k XP/hr, but logged in you could easily gain 60k XP/hr)
-Breeding system for mounts and pets
-Sailing in open world oceans and lakes in player built and manned vessels
-Believable lore and world (i.e. no minotaurs living on a 90° incline, 300ft tall bluff with a single elevator to the top)

Features that I would specifically make sure I did not have:

-Microtractions of any kind (even cosmetic-only rubs me the wrong way)
-PvE gear treadmill
-Medieval fantasy setting (just medieval is fine, but I am done with orcs and elves)
-Automated group finder
-Boring grind (if I couldn't make levelling fun I just wouldn't include levels)
-Mandatory story quests
-Questing as the best method of advancement
-Daily quests

That's all I can think of for now. Keep in mind that these entries are in no particular order and are certainly not exhaustive.

Kilrain said:

I love how people come in with snarky remarks thinking they matter or something. A simple question requires a simple answer, or you move on to a different topic. Acting like an ass just gets you ignored.

From existing features I would exclude all instancing. I like open world over zones, but that can be fine if the zones are built correctly and make sense when traveling between them. Real quests again (Everquest) without trackers and exclamation points. What we see mostly now are tasks. Tasks are fine, but the implementation needs to be done right. I feel LOTRO did tasks better than anyone. Everquest and the Secret World did them right. I prefer twitch based combat, but something like AoC wasn't too bad. I would be happy with that style of combat.

To get any deeper than that would require a lot more typing than I have time for tonight. I really think there are a lot of modern "conveniences" that ruin a lot of the enjoyment I get from games, so I would be very picky as to which I included and which I did not.

You guys have quite a great list of what you are looking for, thanks much for this feedback!

Slapshot1188 · December 2016

toljar said:

Hey everyone,

I have a question for you all:

If you were to design a MMORPG now days, what features from past or present would you absolutely want to include? Think of the things from all the MMORPGs you played in the past, what really stuck out?

I can't tell you because I will someday create a kickstarter that highlights all my great ideas. I have no money nor experience leading a development team, but that seems to be OK nowadays.

anemo · December 2016

All forms of noncombat PvPer, without the ability of players to enter into combat with each other.

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"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey