while the current lot of a handful of older mmorpgs that are staying alive but not really thriving do exist...
look at the horizon for mmorpgs
where are they?
there are none.
the big name studios either crashed and burned 2004-2010 or gtfo out of the mmorpg making business.
no one is investing in game studios to make mmorpgs...because they are insanely expensive, require constant development and maintenance, and have a community with some of the most insane expectations ive ever seen in a game community.
Golden age of mmorpgs is over.
Im not sure we will a new, shiny, well hypes, AAA mmorpg for a very long time. Truth be told, im not sure ill ever enjoy the samey standard mmorpg experience ever again im so burned out on it...no matter how its creatively repackaged.
I noticed the same, @MMOman101. In the world of academic publishing, that's generally a no no. A very big no no. One source as prior works from yourself is about all that is tolerated. That his sources only include himself, my conclusion is that no one else in academia takes MMORPGs seriously. Even though there always seems to be a grad student (usually with dreadful survey creation skills) trying to analyze this crowd for a project/thesis every semester.
I'm not sure if people know who Richard Bartle is. He is the father of online rpgs and the mmorpg genre. He literally created the muds that were used to create mmorpgs that we play today.
He is also a professor who has taught on them for probably close to 30 years. I'm sure he could go around and find other people who think the same as he does, but chances are, they're just repeating something he wrote about 20 years prior.
I was wondering the same thing, this guy is the father of MMOs, literally.
I just wanted to clarify something, since a lot of people in this thread are assuming that I posted this to troll, or push my personal agenda. I only linked the article, because I thought it was an interesting read and wanted to share it. This site is really one of the last bastions to have any kind of civil discussions on MMOs, and I thought it would be a good point of discussion. :awesome:
MMos are basically Spam (the awful food not the internet term) in a different package...Its the same thing over and over and it isnt a very good product
Actually we all talked about this stuff for years. The only reason this is even the least bit powerful is because it's a web page instead of an opinion ( to me it's the same ).
I can sum up everything with this:
World of Warcraft decided to make their game EXTREAMILY EASY to sell expansion's faster !!!.... They also created the auto dungeon finder !!!... Every other developer thought they could follow the pattern. Little did they know they weren't as powerful and couldn't shrug off a big mistake like WOW did.
Then to make matters worst came the old Asian trick of Pay-to-play cash shops....This makes mmos very temporary.
This article is pure garbage and to make my post brief here's why.
The person writing this has no technical understanding of how MMOs are coded, programmed, and what type of technologies are used. The writer attempts to explain why MMOs are declining and they don't know what kind of computer specifications can handle X amount of polygons on screens when they're talking about shards and instances specifically. They don't know why limitations are set on anything and think design is important. Let's ignore the graphic engine capabilities, internet speeds/hubs around the world, general server geography, and current global market computer spec demographic and build the best MMO that no one will ever play.
I noticed the same, @MMOman101. In the world of academic publishing, that's generally a no no. A very big no no. One source as prior works from yourself is about all that is tolerated. That his sources only include himself, my conclusion is that no one else in academia takes MMORPGs seriously. Even though there always seems to be a grad student (usually with dreadful survey creation skills) trying to analyze this crowd for a project/thesis every semester.
I'm not sure if people know who Richard Bartle is. He is the father of online rpgs and the mmorpg genre. He literally created the muds that were used to create mmorpgs that we play today.
He is also a professor who has taught on them for probably close to 30 years. I'm sure he could go around and find other people who think the same as he does, but chances are, they're just repeating something he wrote about 20 years prior.
I was wondering the same thing, this guy is the father of MMOs, literally.
I just wanted to clarify something, since a lot of people in this thread are assuming that I posted this to troll, or push my personal agenda. I only linked the article, because I thought it was an interesting read and wanted to share it. This site is really one of the last bastions to have any kind of civil discussions on MMOs, and I thought it would be a good point of discussion. :awesome:
"The father of MMOs" lol.
Bartle is just one voice with some insight into MMO game design whose only involvement with birthing a game came nearly 40 years ago with MUD1 and MUD2.
The fathers and mothers of MMOs designed their games at Origin, Turbine, NcSoft, Sony, Mythic... many of them are still actively developing.
Bartle today is nothing more than a critic whose academic credentials and books over-impress some... typically those who like to push the "MMOs have gone to the dogs" retro agenda.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I was wondering the same thing, this guy is the father of MMOs, literally.
I just wanted to clarify something, since a lot of people in this thread are assuming that I posted this to troll, or push my personal agenda. I only linked the article, because I thought it was an interesting read and wanted to share it. This site is really one of the last bastions to have any kind of civil discussions on MMOs, and I thought it would be a good point of discussion. :awesome:
It seems to have gone the direction you imagined! But even as the Father of MMOs he seems hung up on his own creations and himself. There would some good points in there none the less.
I don't think people are being very honest when they talk about MMO decline. MMOs are a subgenera of a gaming. Gaming companies make games to make money, and MMOs are no exception. Player population no longer is the deciding factor in the success of an MMO. Micro transactions are king. Is the genera making more money than it did 10 years ago.......5 years ago?
How much money "MMOs" pull in is going to be limited to how you define MMOs. My guess is that, if you loosely define the genera, there is an incredible amount more money being spent on it in 2016 as opposed to 2006 or even 2011.
MMOs are making money. They have changed, but those changes are market driven. People in particular may not like the direction, but as a group they are driving it forward.
I myself if getting very tired of the gaming industry nickel and diming me, not releasing fully fledged games and having DLC day 1. I speak with my wallet. I have not been spending money on games and doing other things.
How does a gaming company determine what will sell if they have only limited information? Does that mean that they will only sell products that have a proven track record?
Is there some squad of game designers who are asking people what kind of game they want to play? Or is it basically that people play what is available to them? I think this argument that the market has the best sense of what is good is garbage. The market moves based on product, and the product design has largely been driven by market concepts rather than artistic concerns.
Why would you assume they have limited information? There is so much information out there now, it is not that gathering that is the problem. It is the making sense of it.
the market is what people spend money on. Good v bad is only opinion. A person may not like where things are going, but where people spend their money defines where things to to some extent.
Obviously marketing, is huge. The point of marketing is to get uninformed people to make emotional decisions. Marketing obviously skews to some degree where markets go. Ultimately though customers (the collective group) tend to get more of what they spend money on and less of what they don't over time.
Do you see what I am saying though? They sample opinion of released games A,B,C and then make a decision about where the market is. They then use that information to produce new stuff. How does game design F become represented?
If game F comes out and has other problems, the good element of design goes down with the bad.
I don't think the market has good sense for what artistically, imagination-wise, and aesthetically good, just what is sales good based on what is out.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
I noticed the same, @MMOman101. In the world of academic publishing, that's generally a no no. A very big no no. One source as prior works from yourself is about all that is tolerated. That his sources only include himself, my conclusion is that no one else in academia takes MMORPGs seriously. Even though there always seems to be a grad student (usually with dreadful survey creation skills) trying to analyze this crowd for a project/thesis every semester.
I'm not sure if people know who Richard Bartle is. He is the father of online rpgs and the mmorpg genre. He literally created the muds that were used to create mmorpgs that we play today.
He is also a professor who has taught on them for probably close to 30 years. I'm sure he could go around and find other people who think the same as he does, but chances are, they're just repeating something he wrote about 20 years prior.
I was wondering the same thing, this guy is the father of MMOs, literally.
I just wanted to clarify something, since a lot of people in this thread are assuming that I posted this to troll, or push my personal agenda. I only linked the article, because I thought it was an interesting read and wanted to share it. This site is really one of the last bastions to have any kind of civil discussions on MMOs, and I thought it would be a good point of discussion. :awesome:
"The father of MMOs" lol.
Bartle is just one voice with some insight into MMO game design whose only involvement with birthing a game came nearly 40 years ago with MUD1 and MUD2.
The fathers and mothers of MMOs designed their games at Origin, Turbine, NcSoft, Sony, Mythic... many of them are still actively developing.
Bartle today is nothing more than a critic whose academic credentials and books over-impress some... typically those who like to push the "MMOs have gone to the dogs" retro agenda.
Many people exhibit a dislike of Personality Inventories and other evaluation tools. I don't know if it's the special snowflake syndrome or the bias against such studies because of the lack of zeroes and ones. Always amuses me though when someone picks apart an inventory, and then proceeds to act exactly as indicated in the results.
Not sure if this appliers, ignore if it doesn't.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
I noticed the same, @MMOman101. In the world of academic publishing, that's generally a no no. A very big no no. One source as prior works from yourself is about all that is tolerated. That his sources only include himself, my conclusion is that no one else in academia takes MMORPGs seriously. Even though there always seems to be a grad student (usually with dreadful survey creation skills) trying to analyze this crowd for a project/thesis every semester.
I'm not sure if people know who Richard Bartle is. He is the father of online rpgs and the mmorpg genre. He literally created the muds that were used to create mmorpgs that we play today.
He is also a professor who has taught on them for probably close to 30 years. I'm sure he could go around and find other people who think the same as he does, but chances are, they're just repeating something he wrote about 20 years prior.
I was wondering the same thing, this guy is the father of MMOs, literally.
I just wanted to clarify something, since a lot of people in this thread are assuming that I posted this to troll, or push my personal agenda. I only linked the article, because I thought it was an interesting read and wanted to share it. This site is really one of the last bastions to have any kind of civil discussions on MMOs, and I thought it would be a good point of discussion. :awesome:
"The father of MMOs" lol.
Bartle is just one voice with some insight into MMO game design whose only involvement with birthing a game came nearly 40 years ago with MUD1 and MUD2.
The fathers and mothers of MMOs designed their games at Origin, Turbine, NcSoft, Sony, Mythic... many of them are still actively developing.
Bartle today is nothing more than a critic whose academic credentials and books over-impress some... typically those who like to push the "MMOs have gone to the dogs" retro agenda.
Many people exhibit a dislike of Personality Inventories and other evaluation tools. I don't know if it's the special snowflake syndrome or the bias against such studies because of the lack of zeroes and ones. Always amuses me though when someone picks apart an inventory, and then proceeds to act exactly as indicated in the results.
Not sure if this appliers, ignore if it doesn't.
I don't know what Bartle's rudimentary MMO player classification system has to do with what I or anyone else has said in this thread.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
To me there has been a decline. Its more covered up with F2P and cash shops boosting user numbers and subsidizing revenue. I feel the decline is also simply that MMO are so diluted that the are only MMO just to push cash shops and DRM. Would those player play games taking advantage of what make MMORPG unique and pay money in some way? I doubt it.
To me MMORPG should have gone the SWG route. Not in execution maybe but at least in function. The themepark, the sandbox, factional pvp and deep crafting seems more suited to the masses. Not really sure MMORPG are meant to be mass consumed as many other genre are.
I noticed the same, @MMOman101. In the world of academic publishing, that's generally a no no. A very big no no. One source as prior works from yourself is about all that is tolerated. That his sources only include himself, my conclusion is that no one else in academia takes MMORPGs seriously. Even though there always seems to be a grad student (usually with dreadful survey creation skills) trying to analyze this crowd for a project/thesis every semester.
I'm not sure if people know who Richard Bartle is. He is the father of online rpgs and the mmorpg genre. He literally created the muds that were used to create mmorpgs that we play today.
He is also a professor who has taught on them for probably close to 30 years. I'm sure he could go around and find other people who think the same as he does, but chances are, they're just repeating something he wrote about 20 years prior.
I was wondering the same thing, this guy is the father of MMOs, literally.
I just wanted to clarify something, since a lot of people in this thread are assuming that I posted this to troll, or push my personal agenda. I only linked the article, because I thought it was an interesting read and wanted to share it. This site is really one of the last bastions to have any kind of civil discussions on MMOs, and I thought it would be a good point of discussion. :awesome:
You know how many old time game designer who moved to new project which go no where?
Ok so what if this guy is the creator of mud. What have he done after? Litetally nothing.
Tough to be a somebody in today's market though because the market is flooded both by games and studios. That is why everything is aiming for FAST,make it so players can jump around game to game quickly so that maybe they spend money on several games,instead of one quality game.
The old days i had all my fix and guess what only the mmorpg asked for an ongoing subscription,everything else was free free free.Now a days every studio is adding in login screens to warrant running a cash shop and on top of that ridiculous early access prices that are often way more expensive than a fully fledged finished game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The decline of the MMO has numerous reasons. - The decline of the MMO follows the decline of desktop PCs. The youth especially prefer tablets and Cell phones to access the internet. MMOs have not been able to keep up with the technological shift away from desktop PCs.
- High development costs of triple A titles. Studios spend all their money on the latest graphics and have no money left to develop the rest of the game. Too many MMOs released unfinished because they ran out of money.
- The fantasy genre has gone into serious decline in recent years in other mediums such as movies, books, and TV shows. There has been a good sword and sorcery movie in years. Everyone is into superheroes now and few people care about fantasy. There will probably be a revival at some point but right now is not a good time to be selling a fantasy MMO. The culture has shifted away from that genre.
- Instant gratification is the new big thing. This has been going on for a while and it goes back to the way children are educated under common core and leave no child behind. Children are trained from a young age to expect runner up prizes and participation trophies. This goes against the core concept of MMO design where work and skill is rewarded.
- Economically people have less spending money then they did 15 years ago. The real reason the subscription model died was because people could no longer afford it. Youth unemployment is 50% right now. Back in the day teenagers used to have jobs which gave us money to pay for things like subscription games. MMOs today have been forced to adapt by switching the FREE to play model.
The decline of the MMO has numerous reasons. - The decline of the MMO follows the decline of desktop PCs. The youth especially prefer tablets and Cell phones to access the internet. MMOs have not been able to keep up with the technological shift away from desktop PCs.
- High development costs of triple A titles. Studios spend all their money on the latest graphics and have no money left to develop the rest of the game. Too many MMOs released unfinished because they ran out of money.
- The fantasy genre has gone into serious decline in recent years in other mediums such as movies, books, and TV shows. There has been a good sword and sorcery movie in years. Everyone is into superheroes now and few people care about fantasy. There will probably be a revival at some point but right now is not a good time to be selling a fantasy MMO. The culture has shifted away from that genre.
- Instant gratification is the new big thing. This has been going on for a while and it goes back to the way children are educated under common core and leave no child behind. Children are trained from a young age to expect runner up prizes and participation trophies. This goes against the core concept of MMO design where work and skill is rewarded.
- Economically people have less spending money then they did 15 years ago. The real reason the subscription model died was because people could no longer afford it. Youth unemployment is 50% right now. Back in the day teenagers used to have jobs which gave us money to pay for things like subscription games. MMOs today have been forced to adapt by switching the FREE to play model.
I think there is a problem with transparency in MMOs today that have hindered this market from growing like other gaming genres.
MMOs unfortunately are stuck in this cycle of generating hype without actually showing anything, when much of the games industry has moved to previews, early access and incremental development to mitigate costs. MMOs still hide ( for many years at times ) behind empty promises and articles depicting wonderful features and building up hype.
You know the recent No Man's Sky controversy? That has been pretty much EVERY MMO release since I started playing MMOs in 1999, yet for us people that love this genre, it is completely acceptable to just ride the hype train on dev marketing pieces and simply ignore promises that were never delivered and just accept that developers dont have to let us see anything "until its ready".
This is exactly why MMORPGs in my opinion have a really high failure rate, so then you're left with the current climate, big investors that have the capital to actual fund delivery of a big project look at the high failure rate and don't want to put money into this genre, what you are left with are smaller underfunded companies that will most likely never be able to deliver at the scale of their promises but will still make the promises because they are after that first wave of profit and its completely acceptable to do so, increase yet more the failure rate.
These are just my 2cents there are many other problems with the MMO im sure.
MMOs unfortunately are stuck in this cycle of generating hype without actually showing anything, when much of the games industry has moved to previews, early access and incremental development to mitigate costs. MMOs still hide ( for many years at times ) behind empty promises and articles depicting wonderful features and building up hype. Read more at http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/459567/the-decline-of-mmos/p6#EippXMRyVKsjozPx.99
Sorry i have to steal your words but you said it well.
Me personally i am not so fine tuned in my words so i say things direct and how i see it is tons and tons of BS !!. Then it is frustrating to see right after nothing more than promises and nothing to show ,we get forum people that are all over it "yeah this looks great".Anyone can put together some great concepts on paper,it is the FINISHED product we need to see.
Who right now is the legend of promises and deception.....Chris Roberts,followed closely by the Crowfall execs,well maybe not that closely since SC is way out front in BS promises.SC will be using Chris's terms a 200-300 million dollar valued game build but will NEVER be anything close to even a 100 million game build.However a long long time ago Chris stated that making a game on your own without a big money backing investor is really tough to pull off,in other words near impossible.He seemed to forget his own words when he started this pitch for some amazing SC game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The decline of the MMO has numerous reasons. - The decline of the MMO follows the decline of desktop PCs. The youth especially prefer tablets and Cell phones to access the internet. MMOs have not been able to keep up with the technological shift away from desktop PCs.
- High development costs of triple A titles. Studios spend all their money on the latest graphics and have no money left to develop the rest of the game. Too many MMOs released unfinished because they ran out of money.
- The fantasy genre has gone into serious decline in recent years in other mediums such as movies, books, and TV shows. There has been a good sword and sorcery movie in years. Everyone is into superheroes now and few people care about fantasy. There will probably be a revival at some point but right now is not a good time to be selling a fantasy MMO. The culture has shifted away from that genre.
- Instant gratification is the new big thing. This has been going on for a while and it goes back to the way children are educated under common core and leave no child behind. Children are trained from a young age to expect runner up prizes and participation trophies. This goes against the core concept of MMO design where work and skill is rewarded.
- Economically people have less spending money then they did 15 years ago. The real reason the subscription model died was because people could no longer afford it. Youth unemployment is 50% right now. Back in the day teenagers used to have jobs which gave us money to pay for things like subscription games. MMOs today have been forced to adapt by switching the FREE to play model.
No.
Could not have said it better.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I think they have different ideas on what feel complex combat is. I am not the newer generation and I certainly don't think the old games combat was deeper or more complex. Just slower.
I don't believe there is a generational difference actually. Many many people did not like the old games. Those people like the newer games. Some people from more current generation's like old style games. Therefore there is no generational difference in gamers. The is only a difference in games going after a different part of the market.
I bet that if a modern style game was introduced at the same time as EQ you would see the same things occurring. Those liking faster gameplay with more flexible characters playing that one with others liking more rigid roles and slower gameplay playing EQ. (Yes I simplified it to two games for comparison).
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
A lot of good points here and the technological side is touched on.
Seems Bartle addresses the "Acts" & "Appreciates" but doesn't fully address the "Acknowledge"
I realize the "Achiever" & "Socializer" is 2 great camps but it seems to me he goes right into the spirit of what's wrong. (20k can sustain instead of 20 mil) by forgoing mention of the "Explorer".
Thank goodness the roleplayer was mentioned and yes I know he wrote types of players.
I still however think companies in general do not "Acknowledge" the customer.
This is why I don't play MMO's anymore, even though I miss them. It's true people don't really stick with a single MMO as long anymore. I fancied the days where a good portion of the community going into an MMO would invest close to a year, or easily more in their favorite world. The MMO was in essence a Hub you could always fall back on, but these days most MMO's barely retain the same faces for the amount of time most progression based single player games do.
I'd be willing to risk betting that lobby based Shooters, Moba's, & Rpg's have far greater player retention than most MMO's these days. Since I prefer community continuity more than gigantic worlds, I've gravitated more towards lobby based games for the social element.
Comments
look at the horizon for mmorpgs
where are they?
there are none.
the big name studios either crashed and burned 2004-2010 or gtfo out of the mmorpg making business.
no one is investing in game studios to make mmorpgs...because they are insanely expensive, require constant development and maintenance, and have a community with some of the most insane expectations ive ever seen in a game community.
Golden age of mmorpgs is over.
Im not sure we will a new, shiny, well hypes, AAA mmorpg for a very long time. Truth be told, im not sure ill ever enjoy the samey standard mmorpg experience ever again im so burned out on it...no matter how its creatively repackaged.
I just wanted to clarify something, since a lot of people in this thread are assuming that I posted this to troll, or push my personal agenda. I only linked the article, because I thought it was an interesting read and wanted to share it. This site is really one of the last bastions to have any kind of civil discussions on MMOs, and I thought it would be a good point of discussion. :awesome:
Actually we all talked about this stuff for years. The only reason this is even the least bit powerful is because it's a web page instead of an opinion ( to me it's the same ).
I can sum up everything with this:
World of Warcraft decided to make their game EXTREAMILY EASY to sell expansion's faster !!!.... They also created the auto dungeon finder !!!... Every other developer thought they could follow the pattern. Little did they know they weren't as powerful and couldn't shrug off a big mistake like WOW did.
Then to make matters worst came the old Asian trick of Pay-to-play cash shops....This makes mmos very temporary.
Hence, we have nothing !!!!!!!!!!!!
The person writing this has no technical understanding of how MMOs are coded, programmed, and what type of technologies are used. The writer attempts to explain why MMOs are declining and they don't know what kind of computer specifications can handle X amount of polygons on screens when they're talking about shards and instances specifically. They don't know why limitations are set on anything and think design is important. Let's ignore the graphic engine capabilities, internet speeds/hubs around the world, general server geography, and current global market computer spec demographic and build the best MMO that no one will ever play.
Bartle is just one voice with some insight into MMO game design whose only involvement with birthing a game came nearly 40 years ago with MUD1 and MUD2.
The fathers and mothers of MMOs designed their games at Origin, Turbine, NcSoft, Sony, Mythic... many of them are still actively developing.
Bartle today is nothing more than a critic whose academic credentials and books over-impress some... typically those who like to push the "MMOs have gone to the dogs" retro agenda.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
If game F comes out and has other problems, the good element of design goes down with the bad.
I don't think the market has good sense for what artistically, imagination-wise, and aesthetically good, just what is sales good based on what is out.
Not sure if this appliers, ignore if it doesn't.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
To me MMORPG should have gone the SWG route. Not in execution maybe but at least in function. The themepark, the sandbox, factional pvp and deep crafting seems more suited to the masses. Not really sure MMORPG are meant to be mass consumed as many other genre are.
Ok so what if this guy is the creator of mud. What have he done after? Litetally nothing.
That is why everything is aiming for FAST,make it so players can jump around game to game quickly so that maybe they spend money on several games,instead of one quality game.
The old days i had all my fix and guess what only the mmorpg asked for an ongoing subscription,everything else was free free free.Now a days every studio is adding in login screens to warrant running a cash shop and on top of that ridiculous early access prices that are often way more expensive than a fully fledged finished game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
- The decline of the MMO follows the decline of desktop PCs. The youth especially prefer tablets and Cell phones to access the internet. MMOs have not been able to keep up with the technological shift away from desktop PCs.
- High development costs of triple A titles. Studios spend all their money on the latest graphics and have no money left to develop the rest of the game. Too many MMOs released unfinished because they ran out of money.
- The fantasy genre has gone into serious decline in recent years in other mediums such as movies, books, and TV shows. There has been a good sword and sorcery movie in years. Everyone is into superheroes now and few people care about fantasy. There will probably be a revival at some point but right now is not a good time to be selling a fantasy MMO. The culture has shifted away from that genre.
- Instant gratification is the new big thing. This has been going on for a while and it goes back to the way children are educated under common core and leave no child behind. Children are trained from a young age to expect runner up prizes and participation trophies. This goes against the core concept of MMO design where work and skill is rewarded.
- Economically people have less spending money then they did 15 years ago. The real reason the subscription model died was because people could no longer afford it. Youth unemployment is 50% right now. Back in the day teenagers used to have jobs which gave us money to pay for things like subscription games. MMOs today have been forced to adapt by switching the FREE to play model.
MMOs unfortunately are stuck in this cycle of generating hype without actually showing anything, when much of the games industry has moved to previews, early access and incremental development to mitigate costs. MMOs still hide ( for many years at times ) behind empty promises and articles depicting wonderful features and building up hype.
You know the recent No Man's Sky controversy? That has been pretty much EVERY MMO release since I started playing MMOs in 1999, yet for us people that love this genre, it is completely acceptable to just ride the hype train on dev marketing pieces and simply ignore promises that were never delivered and just accept that developers dont have to let us see anything "until its ready".
This is exactly why MMORPGs in my opinion have a really high failure rate, so then you're left with the current climate, big investors that have the capital to actual fund delivery of a big project look at the high failure rate and don't want to put money into this genre, what you are left with are smaller underfunded companies that will most likely never be able to deliver at the scale of their promises but will still make the promises because they are after that first wave of profit and its completely acceptable to do so, increase yet more the failure rate.
These are just my 2cents there are many other problems with the MMO im sure.
MAGA
Read more at http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/459567/the-decline-of-mmos/p6#EippXMRyVKsjozPx.99
Sorry i have to steal your words but you said it well.
Me personally i am not so fine tuned in my words so i say things direct and how i see it is tons and tons of BS !!.
Then it is frustrating to see right after nothing more than promises and nothing to show ,we get forum people that are all over it "yeah this looks great".Anyone can put together some great concepts on paper,it is the FINISHED product we need to see.
Who right now is the legend of promises and deception.....Chris Roberts,followed closely by the Crowfall execs,well maybe not that closely since SC is way out front in BS promises.SC will be using Chris's terms a 200-300 million dollar valued game build but will NEVER be anything close to even a 100 million game build.However a long long time ago Chris stated that making a game on your own without a big money backing investor is really tough to pull off,in other words near impossible.He seemed to forget his own words when he started this pitch for some amazing SC game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I don't believe there is a generational difference actually. Many many people did not like the old games. Those people like the newer games. Some people from more current generation's like old style games. Therefore there is no generational difference in gamers. The is only a difference in games going after a different part of the market.
I bet that if a modern style game was introduced at the same time as EQ you would see the same things occurring. Those liking faster gameplay with more flexible characters playing that one with others liking more rigid roles and slower gameplay playing EQ. (Yes I simplified it to two games for comparison).
Seems Bartle addresses the "Acts" & "Appreciates" but doesn't fully address the "Acknowledge"
I realize the "Achiever" & "Socializer" is 2 great camps but it seems to me he goes right into the spirit of what's wrong. (20k can sustain instead of 20 mil) by forgoing mention of the "Explorer".
Thank goodness the roleplayer was mentioned and yes I know he wrote types of players.
I still however think companies in general do not "Acknowledge" the customer.
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
I'd be willing to risk betting that lobby based Shooters, Moba's, & Rpg's have far greater player retention than most MMO's these days. Since I prefer community continuity more than gigantic worlds, I've gravitated more towards lobby based games for the social element.