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Is ESO heading down the dark path of deliberate inconvenience with housing furnishings?
Iselin
Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
I'll say this myself before someone else does: the ESO crown store does not have anything in it essential for playing the game. There're no P2W items or perks that give credit card warriors any type of advantage. It is all just cosmetics and convenience and as such, "don't like, don't buy it" seems to be all that is needed to end any discussion about it... but is it?
When ESO switched from P2P to the B2P + Crown Store model, the game already had its share of inconveniences and, as we all knew they would, the relief for those inconveniences was monetized and moved to the crown store or to the now optional, sub revenue stream. They COULD have removed some of these inconveniences and in some cases (e.g., the VR leveling system) they did. But those inconveniences already existed, we were more or less used to them and could continue living with them if we had to.
But then, all of a sudden, new layers of inconvenience were added at the same time that the cash shop relief was introduced. It was minor at first and clearly within the realm of "purely optional." I'm thinking mostly about the co-introduction of XP scrolls in the Crown Store and a way to make the equivalent items in the game. They added a new layer of RNG rarity in the game that we had never seen before. They added it to both, the recipe pieces that needed to be assembled and one fo the materials needed fro the recipe, Perfect Roe.
But still, XP scrolls for accelerated leveling are purely optional and niche at that. We knew they had added a nasty layer of inconvenience to an in game activity but we didn't really care all that much because it was only those grinders doing it and they were playing the game wrong
Fast forward to housing.
Yes, housing is still optional from a core game play perspective, and there is very little in it that could even be characterized as convenient... attunable crafting stations that let you craft set pieces that would otherwise require a trip to a remote station IS convenient but that's the beginning and end of housing convenience.
But even though it's optional, housing is a bit more special: it is something that has been very much requested by a large portion of the fan base for a long time and much rejoicing and good vibes were had when it was finally announced for this coming February... and as a free base game update.
Now housing itself is not inconvenient in any way shape or form. The gold prices and zone achievement requirements for buying one are reasonable even if the gold cost for the better ones does ramp-up a bit too much considering especially that the quality and size doesn't ramp up in anyway that justifies the increased cost... but whatever, those are minor quibbles.
So what's the problem? It's all about the furnishings. Someone on the PTS forums, Enodoc, described it very well:
And unlike the XP scrolls that most of us can shrug off, a much larger portion of the player base will feel this not so subtle nudge toward the cash shop.
With this update and house furnishings ESO is jumping in with both feet into the deliberate inconvenience cash shop funding method. Not really all that surprising really following so closely after the introduction of gambling boxes.
When ESO switched from P2P to the B2P + Crown Store model, the game already had its share of inconveniences and, as we all knew they would, the relief for those inconveniences was monetized and moved to the crown store or to the now optional, sub revenue stream. They COULD have removed some of these inconveniences and in some cases (e.g., the VR leveling system) they did. But those inconveniences already existed, we were more or less used to them and could continue living with them if we had to.
But then, all of a sudden, new layers of inconvenience were added at the same time that the cash shop relief was introduced. It was minor at first and clearly within the realm of "purely optional." I'm thinking mostly about the co-introduction of XP scrolls in the Crown Store and a way to make the equivalent items in the game. They added a new layer of RNG rarity in the game that we had never seen before. They added it to both, the recipe pieces that needed to be assembled and one fo the materials needed fro the recipe, Perfect Roe.
But still, XP scrolls for accelerated leveling are purely optional and niche at that. We knew they had added a nasty layer of inconvenience to an in game activity but we didn't really care all that much because it was only those grinders doing it and they were playing the game wrong
Fast forward to housing.
Yes, housing is still optional from a core game play perspective, and there is very little in it that could even be characterized as convenient... attunable crafting stations that let you craft set pieces that would otherwise require a trip to a remote station IS convenient but that's the beginning and end of housing convenience.
But even though it's optional, housing is a bit more special: it is something that has been very much requested by a large portion of the fan base for a long time and much rejoicing and good vibes were had when it was finally announced for this coming February... and as a free base game update.
Now housing itself is not inconvenient in any way shape or form. The gold prices and zone achievement requirements for buying one are reasonable even if the gold cost for the better ones does ramp-up a bit too much considering especially that the quality and size doesn't ramp up in anyway that justifies the increased cost... but whatever, those are minor quibbles.
So what's the problem? It's all about the furnishings. Someone on the PTS forums, Enodoc, described it very well:
- Material drop rate needs to be higher
- Materials required per item needs to be lower
- Crafting plan drop rate needs to be higher
- More simple crafting plans needed at vendors
- material drop rates are almost non-existent - think nincrux
- material requirements per items are ridiculous - think level 160 crafting mats
- crafting plan drops are extremely rare - think style books
- vendors sell very few crafting plans and most of them are trees and shrubbery - the Knights who say Ni will be delighted I'm sure
And unlike the XP scrolls that most of us can shrug off, a much larger portion of the player base will feel this not so subtle nudge toward the cash shop.
With this update and house furnishings ESO is jumping in with both feet into the deliberate inconvenience cash shop funding method. Not really all that surprising really following so closely after the introduction of gambling boxes.
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Comments
Though it may be off topic, I am coming to the realization that the best way to play with others is good old pnp games.
Because if I wanted to enjoy this game ( I have to pay Lots of money)...
. No Re-customization with (Subscription) it should be included after a user (Buys the packs from the game store such as "Hair" "Adornments" "Skin" then just buying one should allow a person to enter the character creator again as many times as they want to as long as they have a subscription and edit any detail about their character (Only thing that should be paid is Race / Faction Changes...
If you are like me and want to really enjoy a game and all it's DLC you have to spend lots of money on top of (RNG Crates) which people don't like.
Now they introduce housing which should have been done from the start and how much more do we have to pay 2 enjoy here?
This is the one thing I really love about the offline ESO Games being able to download lots of mods, customization, ESO can't really do that with.
Maybe when you chop down a tree you should get furniture drops*!
*: Note, perhaps you need the wood to make arrows. YMMV.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
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@Renoaku like the Pay to Enjoy tag. Can't really agreed that this was a day 1 must have though. A nice if it had been but they had "enough issues" when they launched and they had to be the priority. Then there was IC - which had been "promised" and was expected etc.
They must believe they can make more money from the cash shop than by (adding some quest arcs and) making it paid DLC. Ultimately the DLC will sell however - as an individual DLC, as part of a follow on combo pack, as part of a later edition of the game.
In the end I think the approach could backfire. Some people could be very disappointed. (I am ambivalent.)
Sad but true.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
If you guys want, I can forward some questions about Housing in general, and concerns to ZOS for an interview. Fire questions at me in my DMs or here in this thread. I'll send them this weekend to PR.
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But in addition to that, you can also buy fully-furnished houses in the cash shop only.
We have no idea from playing in the test server what the crown cost difference will be between furnished/unfurnished or the crown cost of any of them for that matter: at this time the cash shop cost of the houses, furnished or unfurnished, are just a token 1 crown.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
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1. For people for whom houses are "a big deal" the gold cost is huge. Yes there are free rooms at the inn but I don't think they will be seen as "houses". Yes the next tier isn't a great deal but coupled with the cost of a horse, subsequent riding upgrades, bank and inventory upgrades I suspect it won't be high on the priority list. So most won't bother. And that I see as a potential negative. And each higher tier costs more of course. (I am ambivalent and I could afford to buy a higher tier house - but why would I?)
2. Given the cost of houses rooms at inns are going to be what people try - or rather the one inn room per faction. I see this as creating a natural pinch point, lag and potential crashes - as happened at the festival for example. I room in most inns would make more sense I believe - technically and to help immersion. Maybe a short term rent as well.
3. @Iselin mentioned drop rates for materials and plans - and I agree. This concern applies even more to reagents.
4. Not sure there is a polite way of asking this but: is this driven by a financial modelling that indicates they will make more money via the cash shop? That "number and value of cash shop house purchase" will exceed "number and value of DLC purchases"?
5. Have they thought of doing a later DLC after this release with some "low gold cost housing" being available after completing various quests.
6. Have they considered the risk of inflation in the economy and its possible impact on people being more willing to aid others etc.
Other than that this thread is going to be the home for blind hate. As already can be see by the usual house trolls.
The reason Zenimax is able to put out all of these updates and DLCs is by having a great team of game developers on their payroll.
The game went free to play after many people complained about paying a subscription to play the game. How on Earth do you expect them to pay for these updates and still make a profit? I hate to break it to some of you, but they are in a business to make money. This is not charity work.
Personally, I pay the subscription every month since the game launched. I hate the cash shop crap that comes with BTP FTP MMOs.
But I remember tons of people bitching on this forum about the sub. So here we are. You cant have your cake and eat it too.
The point of a house to me would be better crafting and inventory management. Do they expect in the future a house provide these? I am aware of attuned stations but it would be nice to see some kind of worthwhile advantage to crafting from home.
For example extra crafting specific storage to keep a balance so crafting isn't avoided just because you don't want to have to manage all the mats.
Another example is crafting buffs. I'm thinking Vanguard where diplomats buff a crafting area. It could just be a temp buff for item improvement because your guild killed a particular boss etc.
Because houses are literally permanent structures built to store yourself and all your stuff. O.o
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
b2p / f2p / sub are different models with the same aim: to make the most money.
A sub isn't "paying" for the team of designers. Analogy:do you own a car? Do you pay Ford/Toyota/GM or whoever a monthly fee as well? You don't! How do you expect those companies to keep a team of designers employed?
What pays for the team etc. is the total revenue. In ESO's case the cash shop revenue, the optional sub and the sales of the base game / DLC. And with 7M+ sales being announced last year that will be a much bigger revenue driver. One Tamriel and the Gold Edition will have driven more sales. And we know that subs didn't work since they abandoned the mandatory sub model.
The concern about cash shop stuff has been around since it was introduced - before the game launched. (It was only a horse). Since then other stuff has been introduced - but as @Iselin says it can be ignored. This appears to be a lurch - and I do mean lurch - towards cash shop driven revenue.
Now we don't know the cash shop prices - maybe they are very cheap. Everything available for less than the cost of a cheap DLC. Maybe - but I doubt it. And as I said I - personally - have no interest specifically in housing.
I do worry though about the impact on the game. I don't want it to get around that ESO is b2p and you have to purchase stuff from the cash shop to "enjoy" it. That will turn some people off = less sales = less revenue = less designers. And I believe have a negative impact on the game.
So I wonder - recognising that Zenimax have the data but also recognising that they got it wrong when they launched initially (smug face on: so I am 1 for 1 and they are 0 for 1) - whether Zenimax would be better adding some quests and making Housing a paid DLC. Even if its only 1,000 crowns or 1.500. And then have "1,000 or 1,500 crowns less" cash shop goods.
And then looking ahead they will be able to have a new edition of the game Gold + Hist DLC + housing DLC + whatever comes next. Which should sell even more copies.
ESO has had generally one of the better systems. But I'm seeing a trend toward more aggressive monetization.
I see this with the introduction of Crown Crates, the price hike for the reindeer mount, the extra crazy incredibly rare drop rates of the latest XP scroll related items, the Aetheric Cyphers, and now the extra grindy way they're introducing housing furnishings and their crafting. It's not a good trend.
Why is crafting furniture more difficult and less accessible than crafting armor or weapons? Because there are crown shop alternatives, that's why.
Any level 3 player can start the game and in a few minutes of harvesting he can gather what he needs to craft himself a full set of armor and a weapon. Is there a game play reason why it should take a max level crafter 2 or 3 days to get the materials and pattern needed to craft a bloody box? No there isn't. Within the internal logic of crafting in the game it's nonsensical. It only makes sense when you think of it as deliberately added cash-shop related inconvenience.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
But I doubt it will ever be as easy to craft a chair as it is to craft a full set of armor.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I tried to make a deal about this but apparently the ESO community is 95% zenimax white knights who do not see the absurdity of tying an essential feature to a monthly subscription which completely leaves all those who use the primary monetization system out in the cold. So now you got housing, which requires crafting which requires alot of inventory/bank and you are in for a never ending world of inconvenience or to simply ignore the entire half of the game which involves crafting/looting/housing.
I'm ambivalent about their decision to address it through the sub system because I sub anyway but I do see your point.
Ironically this is only a half measure anyway since even with the crafting bag, I still need to micromanage the set items and monster mask/shoulders that now take up most of my bank space, way too much.
Inventory and bank space still needs a lot of work. I thought housing for sure was their opportunity for adding more space and maybe it will be eventually, but for now there's no relief.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I have complained about the way they market the cosmetics, don't offer the re-customization feature as part of the paid subscription, and additional content, and cosmetic packs through the cash shop (Will developers reply or listen (Nope.) Don't like it don't play it obviously...
Then the forced storage thing (Storage is a pain in the ass, so why don't they already have in world storage options so players can buy furniture from the cash shop and craft furniture for storage space in their homes and such?
Why do they introduce Cash Shop crates when people don't even Agree I mean this is a United States based company right? And they are trying to copy what "Koreans", and Japan started in their games called (GACHA) or RNG, its unwanted but yet they do it anyways.
All developers do even when they create a good game like WOW used to be years ago all they do is release expansion after expansion, ruin what a game usually was even if it turned out to be great at the start, the fact that ESO Lacked player housing when it was released told me the developers did a bad job, They didn't listen to beta feed-back or anything either and to even get the option to change hairs, and adornments this year later but not change skin, body shape, or hair color is amazing it takes them this long to make one simple change they could have done years ago...
I am looking for a Great Game, where Developers actually respond and listen to the consumers even if the answer is no instead of wasting peoples time with ( we will think about this) for example.
This guy is pretty mad
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