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CU-era Question
Utapau
Member Posts: 16
During the CU people reported on the forums that Melee Defense and Ranged Defense didn't work as written, that is rather using the type of Defense based on the weapon used against you it used the one based on the type of weapon you were wielding. Was this ever acknowledged by the Devs? The NGE seems to have a single Defense rating.
Comments
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
SWG Tempest: Cardo Dycen RIP
Eve: Cardoh Dycen
I support random drug testing for all SOE employees
Pistol Defense and the like added to both Ranged Defense and Melee Defense so they most likely worked. I remember the Jedi making the biggest deal about it because if your Defense value is based on the weapon you wield (rather than the type of weapon used against you) an entire tree in Defender was moot (the ranged defense line) as Jedi used a lightsaber 99% of the time.
It also affected balance between professions, Rifleman was supposed to be vulnerable to melee attacks, but they had high Ranged Defense meaning that with the 'bug' they were better at defending against Melee than Pistoleers who had lower Ranged Defense but higher Melee Defense.
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Do not hate it, but instead embrace the diversity.
Pistol Defense and the like added to both Ranged Defense and Melee Defense so they most likely worked. I remember the Jedi making the biggest deal about it because if your Defense value is based on the weapon you wield (rather than the type of weapon used against you) an entire tree in Defender was moot (the ranged defense line) as Jedi used a lightsaber 99% of the time.
It also affected balance between professions, Rifleman was supposed to be vulnerable to melee attacks, but they had high Ranged Defense meaning that with the 'bug' they were better at defending against Melee than Pistoleers who had lower Ranged Defense but higher Melee Defense.
The mods in the CU were essentially the same as the pre-cu ones, just combined and renamed. BUT, they did differ. Lets use some random numbers. If you were master Carbineer and had +135 Carbine Defence, that means you would have +135 defence while using a carbine. If you equiped a pistol or anything else, all that defence would be gone. They did that to prevent stacking that the pre-cu system was notorious for.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
Melee defense was your defense bonus when using a melee weapon.
Ranged defense was your defense bonus when using a ranged weapon.
Above was proven.
This was proven, but during the CU-era devs didn't consider the playerbase worthy of their attention, so they didn't bother acknowledging anything.
The defense (is there a thing like that left) in NGE is essentially irrelevant, due to the way damage is calculated. The difference between perfect and useless weapon is 25% (or thereabout), the other 75% come from your level. Specials do fixed damage.
Pistol Defense and the like added to both Ranged Defense and Melee Defense so they most likely worked. I remember the Jedi making the biggest deal about it because if your Defense value is based on the weapon you wield (rather than the type of weapon used against you) an entire tree in Defender was moot (the ranged defense line) as Jedi used a lightsaber 99% of the time.
It also affected balance between professions, Rifleman was supposed to be vulnerable to melee attacks, but they had high Ranged Defense meaning that with the 'bug' they were better at defending against Melee than Pistoleers who had lower Ranged Defense but higher Melee Defense.
The mods in the CU were essentially the same as the pre-cu ones, just combined and renamed. BUT, they did differ. Lets use some random numbers. If you were master Carbineer and had +135 Carbine Defence, that means you would have +135 defence while using a carbine. If you equiped a pistol or anything else, all that defence would be gone. They did that to prevent stacking that the pre-cu system was notorious for.
Using actual numbers, a CU Master Carbineer had Melee Defense +60, Ranged Defense +75 and Carbine Defense +40. Now the Carbine Defense applied to both Melee Defense and Ranged Defense while the Carbineer was wielding a carbine. The problem that I am describing is that when the Carbineer is attacked, by a Jedi using a lightsaber for example, the game was supposed to use Melee Defense as the lightsaber is a melee weapon. However, the reported bug was that when wielding a carbine, the game would use Ranged Defense. Only when the Carbineer equiped a melee weapon would Melee Defense be used.
I actually thought Pre-Cu had less stacking (might be wrong, I was only around for a month Pre-CU). My Pikeman/Ranger Pre-Cu was pretty weak when using anything but a polearm (whereas in the CU I had General Melee Accuracy +55, Melee Defense +85, Ranged Defense +55 and General Melee Speed +25 regardless of what weapon I picked up).
If I took Pikeman and Swordsman in CU I had General Melee Accuracy +160, Melee Defense +160, Ranged Defense +115 and General Melee Speed +45, which made me vastly superior to any single melee profession (whether combined with a ranged combat profession or a non-combat profession). Pre-CU it seemed that a Rifleman/Architect (I knew a guy who did this) was a viable profession whereas during the CU not so much (he eventually went architect/merchant during the CU).
Pistol Defense and the like added to both Ranged Defense and Melee Defense so they most likely worked. I remember the Jedi making the biggest deal about it because if your Defense value is based on the weapon you wield (rather than the type of weapon used against you) an entire tree in Defender was moot (the ranged defense line) as Jedi used a lightsaber 99% of the time.
It also affected balance between professions, Rifleman was supposed to be vulnerable to melee attacks, but they had high Ranged Defense meaning that with the 'bug' they were better at defending against Melee than Pistoleers who had lower Ranged Defense but higher Melee Defense.
The mods in the CU were essentially the same as the pre-cu ones, just combined and renamed. BUT, they did differ. Lets use some random numbers. If you were master Carbineer and had +135 Carbine Defence, that means you would have +135 defence while using a carbine. If you equiped a pistol or anything else, all that defence would be gone. They did that to prevent stacking that the pre-cu system was notorious for.
sends Spathotan a cookie for the first correct answer about the original combat defense system.
Wow is that how they did it for the CU? Damn, I see they spent a whole 2 minutes in brainstorming an idea for that one.
The bug was ack. by the devs and was a HARD TOUGH nut to crack.
It was like this:
The name "Ranged defense" was not "AGAINST" a ranged weap, it was "WITH" a ranged weap.
Means:
Normally you would think, that food with "Ranged def+50" would help your defense AGAINST a ranged weapon.
It was the other way around: It helped your toon when you were USING (so: "with"...) a ranged weapon.
The funny thing was, that a rifleman USING a ranged weapon and such food gained defense against melee AND ranged attacks, because his defense was generally raised because of the way it worked "now".
That was earth-shattering, because every Jedi now had to change the whole stat-modifying stuff like food, CA's etc. A Jedi was always considered being a melee-user but normally every Jedi had ranged defense food, cuz a BH was (in 99%) ranged - so all Jedi stocked renaged-def. stuff: Which was worthless after this bug was revealed.
The devs never fixed it. They said sometimes that they are still trying to fix it, but since the whole combat and modifiyer system was based on it, they never really thought about fixing it.
We did some more testing in our guild and find out that food was almost doing nothing.
The mods on food was, considering a max in certain stats of +750, so very low in effect (eg. +99), that it wsnt helping much.
What we found out was, that Regen food was obv. bugged: It helped a lot when NOT in combat, but did nothing WHILE in combat.
We found out later, that the devs took the description of the regenfood VERY serious (and were pickey about it):
"Helps you regenrating from combat" or so was the description (in more funny words tho), which was INDEED like it: It helped you regenrating FROM combat but not IN combat.
It was ahuge thread in the forums, many tried to proove with numbers (differences in regen about 1 second) that food worked, but it wasnt more then a serverlag causing diff. numbers.
Claude
Pistol Defense and the like added to both Ranged Defense and Melee Defense so they most likely worked. I remember the Jedi making the biggest deal about it because if your Defense value is based on the weapon you wield (rather than the type of weapon used against you) an entire tree in Defender was moot (the ranged defense line) as Jedi used a lightsaber 99% of the time.
It also affected balance between professions, Rifleman was supposed to be vulnerable to melee attacks, but they had high Ranged Defense meaning that with the 'bug' they were better at defending against Melee than Pistoleers who had lower Ranged Defense but higher Melee Defense.
The mods in the CU were essentially the same as the pre-cu ones, just combined and renamed. BUT, they did differ. Lets use some random numbers. If you were master Carbineer and had +135 Carbine Defence, that means you would have +135 defence while using a carbine. If you equiped a pistol or anything else, all that defence would be gone. They did that to prevent stacking that the pre-cu system was notorious for.
sends Spathotan a cookie for the first correct answer about the original combat defense system.
I dont know if that is sarcasm or not. Did I get cu and pre-cu mixed up?
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
Am I correct in understanding that Ranged Defense was supposed to protect against ranged weapons and Melee Defense against melee weapons? That is the way I always read it. I wonder if this 'bug' was always around or if it was added in the Combat Upgrade.
I am still trying to figure out why you are posting so many things that offer nothing to such a variety of threads...amazing.
There is the question of whether it worked pre-CU as well. Then we can get into whether it was the failure of SOE to address fundamental game mechanic issues such as this that caused their continual hemmorrhage of players. It is simply not possible to balance a system where the underlying system does not work as intended.
I fail to see why it is so amazing. Should I be expending my energy ranting or raving about SWG? Should I be expending my energy questioning other people's decisions to discuss things that I don't find important? So, no head injuries just a discussion about the history of a game's development, sorry if we made too much noise and distracted you from whatever it was you were doing.
no spathotan,
I am was just glad to see a nice, clear and concise reply to a question.
sorry if i appeared to be "snarky"
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett