<snip> I never heard such a huge amount of negative posts about a game than what I read about Pantheon, and it's not even in Alpha.<snip>
I must confess this made me giggle as it suggests the poster hasn't checked out what gets posted about a certain other KS game.
If you are referring to Star Citizen, you can't compare the two of them. Pantheon criticism is rarely based on the game itself, it is either aimed at his developer for mistakes he made 10 years ago or at the type of game Pantheon belongs to, as many suggest that Old School game simply don't work.
Star Citizen criticism is based on the current performance of the game, so it's quite relevant. With $ 120 Millions of funds CIG have very little to show after 5 years of development and no set date for Squadron 42 and Star Citizen. Fans are worried of being scammed as it looks like the game is nowhere near of being released. The controversy in that case is quite justified, there is a sense that CIG don't know what is doing and they are spending the money badly, and though I am not suggesting they are using their money for private reasons (though some people are), surely enough it looks like the money is badly managed, and the game might not even release or could be released in an unfinished state.
I think it's tasteless, when involved in one of those polls, to bandy voters -- unless everyone else on the poll was also doing it. Other than MU I didn't see any of the others do it, but I don't keep up with any of them that closely either.
Not only did other games request fans to vote for them, that was likely the goal behind the poll in the first place.
I dont see the problem... whats wrong about asking your fan base for support?? That's what you have a fan base for, and that is exactly how any superstar use their fans and as they are nominated best artist of the year and win the trophy, they will thank their managers, mom, dad, family "but I would be nothing whiteout my fans, thank you all for voting on me, your the best fans in the world"
seems to me, that you need to emerge reality and face what a fan horde is and do for a company/idol ..
I appreciate an mmo being made the hard way. With cost and politics the way they are, It got to the point it's the only way unless you really like "cash shop Asian grinders" to rule our lives !
Hype, I'm all for it...........if the game turns out good or bad, its still just advertisement. For those on the fence, come game time the reality will be leaked anyway.......If it turns out to be bad, as long as they really gave it a go, I see no issue. As long as we don't get out right ripped off, and this definitely NOT the case !
Remember, for anyone giving a donation its JUST A DONATION !... It's taking a chance in something you believe in with no guarantee.
I would much rather developers find any kind of free advertisement they can and the cost going into development.
You know, you aren't going to change people except by example and also by not insulting them.
In truth, you are as much of the "gaming" problem as anyone. You're just a different facet.
If you want to have a gaming community of people who act like "adults" and who do things intelligently and who participate in intelligent meaningful discussion then you have to "be" that person.
In any event, the timbre of your post isn't going to convince anyone of your point and if anything will only make them want to be contrary.
To the point, people are going to act how they are going to act. Especially because, in truth, we arent' part of a club and not everyone wants to participate in a gaming community. They are going to hype things as they see fit, buy things that others don't think have any worth and essentially just be "people".
I strongly suspect we have been this way since "since" and while things might change for the better in a very slow manner, there are still going to be people who do what they want.
Post edited by Vaross on
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I dont think it is wrong for a game developer to point out that his work is up for an award and asking his supporters/backers to help and vote, if they feel his work deserves this recognition. Why is it so ethically wrong to make sure your backers/supporters are aware of this award nomination? They are not forcing people to go vote for them, they are not asking them to double/triple vote for them.
Of all the issues in the gaming industry, I am baffled why this one deserves your attention.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
I dont think it is wrong for a game developer to point out that his work is up for an award and asking his supporters/backers to help and vote, if they feel his work deserves this recognition. Why is it so ethically wrong to make sure your backers/supporters are aware of this award nomination? They are not forcing people to go vote for them, they are not asking them to double/triple vote for them.
Of all the issues in the gaming industry, I am baffled why this one deserves your attention.
Totally agree. Also, they could win a hundred awards, but if the game is shit they can't trade those awards in for success. I would expect that a marketing team would ask their community to vote for them if they are nominated for awards. Congrats if they have a community that gives enough "fucks" to actually take action and vote.
Also, I think it's pretty naive to think that they are SO good at marketing that they did this by themselves. It's ALL about community. If they've created a community that will take action to filter down information to larger communities, good for them. Although in that regard I guess you could say they are good at marketing because they realize that creating an army is better than hiring a thousand generals.
Otherwise known as hypocrisy (if like me, you're not a millennial and you use the right word for the right occasion, PC notwithstanding. If this annoys, stick to 'double standards')
Why double standards/hypocrisy? Remember when a couple of months back the SotA devs asked and pleaded for their players to 'upvote' SotA everywhere? Remember the outcry? A rightful outcry too, i protested myself. Even though I AM A 500$ supporter, i complained along with everyone else. Wrong is wrong, we all felt so good stating it.
(this is where the knowledgeable crowd starts loling, the rest keep reading)
Except just a few days ago, the Pantheon team did exactly the same thing. Proper official post, typed by the head of PR, in the --official-- announcements sub forum, asking us to do what? You guessed it; "help" them by ""upvoting"" their game. Now that it's done, all i see is hoorays and congratulatory pats on the back. All's fine in the Shire. Ben (aforementioned head of PR) even posted back in that thread, thanking them all for their efforts!!! We now even have a proper new thread, where we can all tell each other how awesomuzzz we arez! (no, i didn't """help""", not like that. I helped with my money, fair. Transparent) (yes, i am a backer. 300$ tier. So no, i am NOT a 'hater')
And because most of you are children/mentally underdeveloped: A resounding YES, i support Pantheon, a resounding YES, i wish them the very best. But my ethics, my sense of right and wrong..they just are. Sans "exceptions". This was pure manipulation; the key tool of hype. And we all know about hype.
Since when can the little people use every tool at their disposal without even a social hiccup and the others cannot? More to it, when will you (those of you that are) fanboys CEASE being fanboys and start being functioning individuals?
Am i honestly the only one annoyed by all this?
Ahhh didums, it's so unfair lol.
Seriously is life that shallow that this means that much to you that you make a thread.
I don't even believe you are a backer but if you are, so freaking what.
You want the game community to behave like adults? Have you read your posts? Talk about hypocrisy dude....you are the epitome of hypocrisy. It's funny that you think that people should listen to you, a fish has more interesting things to say than you do.
By the way I want to know if now it is allowed to freely insult people on this Forum, so I can act accordingly (of course I am gonna say sorry afterwards to make things better).
Are the people who criticized the up-voting in the first place the exact same people who are excited over the same with Pantheon?
If so you have a solid argument. Otherwise all you are seeing is that there is a group who are excited over Pantheon up-voting and they are completely separate from the other.
Many people don't consider this before they rant on and on about their "gotcha" moment.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The majority of you missed the point entirely.. which is not surprising, considering the audience. Insults are rarely taken well, granted, but point still stands. This is a market catering primarily to juveniles (regardless of age..) and there's a price for that. I am aware it was not against any 'rules'. I am aware that 'others do/have done it as well'. I am aware of the concept of free speech, taking an initiative, etc. I can also understand why some do not even comprehend why "i'm getting so worked up over this".
To reiterate and expand further as it seems even the obvious needs be stated.
You, you, are ruining this market with this kind of behavior. Not the devs, not the publishers. You. The retards (people you see judge based on facts; retards just hype). Again insulting, apologies, but true nonetheless. I like things in the open You ruin this market; by doing the PR machine's work for free, on your own, and with a dedication and strength of intent unmatched by any professional PR spinner. Everytime you do this, everytime you decide, years in advance, that 'x' product is P-E-R-F-E-C-T, in advance, the bar stays where it is. Because the audience stays where it is. Because drones such as you brain wash over and over and over. Because second parties cashing in on this hobby (such as this very site) pick up on it and cater to you further, else money is lost.
Said it in a different Pantheon thread, have literally, entirely given up on MMORPGs. Pantheon is pretty much gonna be it for me, win or lose. So my hopes are very high. My hopes. NOT my expectations.
When you gulp down every tidbit of useless, senseless trivia they serve you, when you decide, sans the evidence, that something IS awesome (not will be, IS, and never mind it's not even out yet) no one needs to improve. No one needs to try harder. No one needs to compete. No one even needs to convince. You do it FOR THEM... You think of all this and then you think of all the shit that's come out in this genre, 'old school' included.
See if the dots match.
Went back and checked the OP, pretty much a pointless rant, so no harm done if people missed it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I had to check Pantheon's forums to see what all the fuss was about and I'm sorry OP I think you must have too much time on your hands if you think this is a serious problem within gaming.
Years ago it used to be a running joke on this site that Eve would win all of the readers choice awards due to all of the Eve players descending on this site. Last year or the year before you had the leads from ESO asking players to vote in the awards.
All this does is allow a game to get a bit of free advertising and build some awareness for the game. It's also just a bit of fun for the (insert name) community.
1) This site is simply another past time for all of us, just like anything else anyone is interested in on the internet.
2) It's all about opinions, One thing is FACT everyone will do what their gonna do anyway.
3) This site makes a very small percentage of the mmo community.
4) You can learn a lot here from reading between the lines ( good and bad ). You will never get the truth from larger mainstream marketing. FAKE NEWS !!!!!!
5) You, you have 46 post here on this site, so you must find something interesting about what we say, If your like the average person you spent time larking before posting. Add that you actually joined this site, this shows your turning into one of us with opinions ( good or bad ).
6) Some games need to be bashed !
7) Are we guessing about the future ?.........We sure are and we love it
Remember when a couple of months back the SotA devs asked and pleaded for their players to 'upvote' SotA everywhere? Remember the outcry? A rightful outcry too, i protested myself. Even though I AM A 500$ supporter, i complained along with everyone else. Wrong is wrong, we all felt so good stating it.
You're wrong though. Ohh you're right that did feel good. Seriously, your claim that everyone complained about it is ridiculous.
I too find it productive and satisfying to start an opinion thread by stating that anyone that disagrees with me is a mental midget, or a yucky millennial, or both.
I like what Pantheon has to offer, the fact that the poll exists and where it is located was pointed out to me by possibly the dev thread possibly by a community member i cant remember, there was a general buzz about the fact Pantheon was on the list and threads were popping up about it by enthusiastic community members. I decided to vote on the poll because it is the MMO that I am most (well only) looking forward to in 2017 and the result indicates others agreed in large numbers. I don't see anything foul by a dev or a member of the public linking the poll to like minded people whether it be for Pantheon or any other that was in the poll. There was no threat of members losing a Pantheon privilege or something if they didn't vote (that would definitely be unethical and reason to be angry) it was up to each individual after looking at the poll and deciding on their most wanted game from the list. You and anyone else have the right to cry foul mate, even the people who you may feel have double standards and it's good that you and they feel comfortable to voice opinions and should continue to, I hope people are respectful who also disagree, but I personally believe as an argument about the ethics of a dev linking this poll.. it isn't one built on very strong foundations that's all.
With regards to individuals with double standards generally well of course we should always point out to someone that they should more closely consider their actions or words, but that doesn't change at all the fact that there is nothing wrong with a Dev linking the poll unless he himself is responsible for the exact double standard you refer to.
The issue is if they were offering people benefits to upvote their product. If they simply ASKED people to do it, than that's the individuals choice in the matter and there is ZERO wrong with that. That's like someone asking you to post a review of a product you bought from them. You're acting like VR was sending emails saying they'll give out free subscriptions or in game items or whatever to people who upvote them.
Stop making mountains out of molehills, it's ridiculous. There are more important things to worry about.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Comments
Pantheon criticism is rarely based on the game itself, it is either aimed at his developer for mistakes he made 10 years ago or at the type of game Pantheon belongs to, as many suggest that Old School game simply don't work.
Star Citizen criticism is based on the current performance of the game, so it's quite relevant.
With $ 120 Millions of funds CIG have very little to show after 5 years of development and no set date for Squadron 42 and Star Citizen.
Fans are worried of being scammed as it looks like the game is nowhere near of being released.
The controversy in that case is quite justified, there is a sense that CIG don't know what is doing and they are spending the money badly, and though I am not suggesting they are using their money for private reasons (though some people are), surely enough it looks like the money is badly managed, and the game might not even release or could be released in an unfinished state.
seems to me, that you need to emerge reality and face what a fan horde is and do for a company/idol ..
Hype, I'm all for it...........if the game turns out good or bad, its still just advertisement. For those on the fence, come game time the reality will be leaked anyway.......If it turns out to be bad, as long as they really gave it a go, I see no issue. As long as we don't get out right ripped off, and this definitely NOT the case !
Remember, for anyone giving a donation its JUST A DONATION !... It's taking a chance in something you believe in with no guarantee.
I would much rather developers find any kind of free advertisement they can and the cost going into development.
In truth, you are as much of the "gaming" problem as anyone. You're just a different facet.
If you want to have a gaming community of people who act like "adults" and who do things intelligently and who participate in intelligent meaningful discussion then you have to "be" that person.
In any event, the timbre of your post isn't going to convince anyone of your point and if anything will only make them want to be contrary.
To the point, people are going to act how they are going to act. Especially because, in truth, we arent' part of a club and not everyone wants to participate in a gaming community. They are going to hype things as they see fit, buy things that others don't think have any worth and essentially just be "people".
I strongly suspect we have been this way since "since" and while things might change for the better in a very slow manner, there are still going to be people who do what they want.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Not that it matters.
Of all the issues in the gaming industry, I am baffled why this one deserves your attention.
Totally agree. Also, they could win a hundred awards, but if the game is shit they can't trade those awards in for success. I would expect that a marketing team would ask their community to vote for them if they are nominated for awards. Congrats if they have a community that gives enough "fucks" to actually take action and vote.
Also, I think it's pretty naive to think that they are SO good at marketing that they did this by themselves. It's ALL about community. If they've created a community that will take action to filter down information to larger communities, good for them. Although in that regard I guess you could say they are good at marketing because they realize that creating an army is better than hiring a thousand generals.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Seriously is life that shallow that this means that much to you that you make a thread.
I don't even believe you are a backer but if you are, so freaking what.
Have you read your posts?
Talk about hypocrisy dude....you are the epitome of hypocrisy.
It's funny that you think that people should listen to you, a fish has more interesting things to say than you do.
By the way I want to know if now it is allowed to freely insult people on this Forum, so I can act accordingly (of course I am gonna say sorry afterwards to make things better).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Years ago it used to be a running joke on this site that Eve would win all of the readers choice awards due to all of the Eve players descending on this site. Last year or the year before you had the leads from ESO asking players to vote in the awards.
All this does is allow a game to get a bit of free advertising and build some awareness for the game. It's also just a bit of fun for the (insert name) community.
2) It's all about opinions, One thing is FACT everyone will do what their gonna do anyway.
3) This site makes a very small percentage of the mmo community.
4) You can learn a lot here from reading between the lines ( good and bad ). You will never get the truth from larger mainstream marketing. FAKE NEWS !!!!!!
5) You, you have 46 post here on this site, so you must find something interesting about what we say, If your like the average person you spent time larking before posting. Add that you actually joined this site, this shows your turning into one of us with opinions ( good or bad ).
6) Some games need to be bashed !
7) Are we guessing about the future ?.........We sure are and we love it
Only issue here exists in your heads.
You stay sassy!
Seriously, your claim that everyone complained about it is ridiculous.
My heart is broken.
With regards to individuals with double standards generally well of course we should always point out to someone that they should more closely consider their actions or words, but that doesn't change at all the fact that there is nothing wrong with a Dev linking the poll unless he himself is responsible for the exact double standard you refer to.
Stop making mountains out of molehills, it's ridiculous. There are more important things to worry about.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche