Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Playing GW2 WvW for a long time sometimes tire the game out. What will CU do differently here?
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,400
After playing and experiencing GW2's PvP RvR known as WvW, it was a lot of fun, but long term is kind of tiresome.
What will Camelot Unchained do differently to make this all out PvP game fun and everlasting where GW2 WvW may have failed at?
What will Camelot Unchained do differently to make this all out PvP game fun and everlasting where GW2 WvW may have failed at?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Comments
Unlike GW2, CU and it's engine will be built around very large scale warfare, with Realm pride being essential (unlike GW's red vs blue team), with important and very robust both building and crafting and you can find some other important differences in CU Wiki on Zergs, say:
None of that actually guarantees the game will be fun, of course. It's not so much about concepts, but rather about the way it's actually implemented into the game.
I can say however that CU can do it better by designing the game around it. GW2 is not designed around it in my opinion. Not to say that WvW is an after thought, but I think that, while the three-faction pvp IS the best choice when it comes to large scale pvp, the game remains a themepark and you can't really enjoy the politics or meta-game that you could see in Daoc or can see in EVE. From what I gather, CU devs are going for that.
If I'm wrong I apologize, but I like to remain a bit ignorant on the subject until these games release.
Yes they are both 3 way RvR (or WvW if you prefer) but the similarities ends pretty much there,
GW2 PvP is an Esport, everyone wears the same gear and are on the same level, it's a glorified capture the flag kind of game.
CU is an open world PvP, players will have different gear, different set ups and there will be territory conquest and politics.
I am not saying one is better than the other as they attract different crowds, I personally like CU PvP better.
The same question has been around for 30 or so years. UO, DAoC, BF, SWTOR, CoD, Eve, CoV, Crowfall, ESO PvP, Darkfall, GW1, Portal. Yes these are not all PC games and they are not all fantasy but at a core level they are the same.
What a developer can do is limited. They can add progression - up to and including things like aging leading to perma-death. Provide a greater mix of "stuff" - capture the flag, campaigns that reset whatever. Provide different settings - maps basically.
The bottomline is that all experiences lose their lustre and become boring over time.
GW2 selected a mix of "stuff" that you enjoyed for a period of time; CU will adopts a set of "stuff" that may - or may not - appeal to you. If it does appeal to you the end result however will be the same.
I loved RvR in daoc, but the WvW in GW2 was really underwhelming. Here’s why (in my opinion)
WvW:
-Combat was extremely repetitive and the classes played one way. Only 3-4 abilities you ever used.
-The rewards for holding keeps/territory were not fun or interesting: example: 5% more to coin, 5% exp, rep etc. not very exciting.
- Taking a keep was too easy. Not a lot of incentive to defend. (lots of keep swapping for the exp reward)
- Mega servers made the “community” watered down. No realm pride. Too many guilds/players to make anyone meaningful.
- No meaningful character progression in WvW : exampled Realm points/realm abilities
RvR:
- Control of Darkness Falls was extremely important to make money. The exp in the dungeon was top notch (plus the pvp was super fun).
- Holding relics was a substantial increase in character power.
- Progression in RvR made your character very powerful.
- Realm ranks gave you a distinction for achieving a high level.
- People knew players and guilds by name and could invoke some serious fear if you saw death spam from known players, or groups running around wearing a well-known guild emblem.
The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.
The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...
www.CeaselessGuild.com
Best thing to do is look at DAOC, ESO, GW2 and take notes then make comparisons then build something solid using their ideas mixed with some of your own.
Care to elaborate?
When you don't want the truth, you will make up your own truth.
Would you call a rape fun? If you are the victimizer then maybe yes, but not so much for the victim.
To be fair here, you didn't even point out WHAT ASPECT GW2 failed at. Maybe you can start your topic from there, and suggest solution so CU won't repeat the mistake.
When you don't want the truth, you will make up your own truth.
The SPVP is an arena style pvp where levels, skills are locked and gear is also locked.
My thoughts.
(2) "Death will have consequences." Please no. The more you have consequences for death, the more you encourage people to bot/hack/cheat/etc. Just normal death is fine.
The main thing you need is some easy mechanic for the two losing teams to team up on the winning team and not hurt each other. Like maybe they can declare a "truce" if over 50% of people on each side agree, and then both show as friendly to each other.
LOL... what? Think about what you just said. No or little death penalty. So you want 30 second rez wave after rez wave to keep attacking your keep. That sounds awful.
If my guild defeats an attacking group on my keep, I want them to go away.
Victory is much sweeter when defeat stings. There is no thrill in killing an opponent when they spawn 100 feet from where they died.
The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.
The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...
www.CeaselessGuild.com
It needs to feel like it would in real,there would be REASON why you are attacking and not just because it is pvp and i logged in to pvp,that is NOT immersive game play.
To pull it off well and not just a world where players are flagged to pvp,you need a lot of systems,assets and influences.I personally like to see npc factions in these type of games and lots of them,yes it creates a huge AI log jam on bandwidth but that is what i want,otherwise it is not fun to me.
I guess to put it using an example,i want a Age of Empires with say 4-12 with those npc factions that are working/building and attacking but also adding in real player factions and on that note,i want LOTS,not 2/3/4 or even5 ,that is not enough to be fully immersive.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Bots, hackers and cheaters will have hard time against CU's strong server-side control and some other unusual features. This is not BDO, AA or whatever else you have in mind, and CU having box+sub will hurt these folks even more after bans.