That would actually be more consistent with ESO's current Crown Store offerings -- actually how almost all cash shops in all games do it - where fancy mounts and costumes can be bought there but lesser equivalents can be obtained in game.
With armour or mounts motivation to get a fancy version come from the urge to show off. You pay for better version so others will see you wearing / riding that unique and expensive cash shop item.
Does housing provide similar incentive? Can you - figuratively speaking - stand in the centre of your alliance capitol and show others a perfectly designed interior of your house?
Because if not then I perfectly understand why they made housing items that way.
You can have up to 24 people at once in your house if you want and you can give permissions to anyone (your whole guild for example) to visit it whether you're online or not.
So no, it's not exactly the same peacock thing but partly so.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
What if they provide a 10k-11k house to all subscribers? And the option to rent a higher value house? Work out the rent for the castles - 100 crowns, 250 crowns? - and pro-rata the others. Maybe even throw in a random (bound) housing item every month.
People are only going to obtain housing items if they have a house. OK they will have a room at the inn. If I was interested in housing though that wouldn't be enough.
Not sure how successful LotR's premium housing has been but the normal housing zones are ghost towns. Extra storage though so I did use them (my multiple alts had their own guilds as well enabling them to own guild halls as well).
Gamers love a reason to be mad. Many just love being mad.
this guy seems kinda dumb (the video guy) - what I mean is that he states that he ONLY plays ESO to chase PvE Achievements and that he already has 96% of the Achievements. He states he has enough gold to buy all 3 of the top Manors (10M), but that it would break him of gold to buy them and he must work 40 hours per week at his RL job. I don't get it? If you ONLY chase Achievements then spend the silly gold and buy the 3 manors. gold comes back to you in games very easily and you don't need it anyway because you ONLY chase Achievements... geez... simple! however, I bet he will be SO hot when he gets his Morrowind tattoo.
this guy seems kinda dumb (the video guy) - what I mean is that he states that he ONLY plays ESO to chase PvE Achievements and that he already has 96% of the Achievements. He states he has enough gold to buy all 3 of the top Manors (10M), but that it would break him of gold to buy them and he must work 40 hours per week at his RL job. I don't get it? If you ONLY chase Achievements then spend the silly gold and buy the 3 manors. gold comes back to you in games very easily and you don't need it anyway because you ONLY chase Achievements... geez... simple! however, I bet he will be SO hot when he gets his Morrowind tattoo.
Sz
Its an insane amount of gold though. And he would need another - what - 17M to own all the houses. Not being able to buy them all may well push his 96% score down.
Now my view would be: so what. That level of attainment though - medical terms spring to mind.
If you guys want, I can forward some questions about Housing in general, and concerns to ZOS for an interview. Fire questions at me in my DMs or here in this thread. I'll send them this weekend to PR.
Also, FYI, the second PTS patch left all of the relevant furnishing crafting drop rates and material requirements to craft unchanged and unlike most other feedback about other PTS changes where several developers have commented on the feedback, it's just crickets on these drop rates... Exactly as was the case with Crown Crate PTS feedback.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Waiting to hear back from ZOS. Questions are with them.
@BillMurphy Further to my comment about subscribers above maybe there could therefore be various housing options - 4 of them instead of the current two:
buy for gold as laid out;
buy for crowns from the cash shop - presumably part of the current plan;
give subscriber a bound "housing voucher" with a certain "crown" value or? "gold voucher" (see DLC option), The vouchers could only be used to purchase houses ... or furnishings?
a DLC option. This would come with some housing related quests. Completion would allow the houses to be bought with gold at a discount to the published prices to reflect the heroic achievements etc. In revenue terms the discount would reflect the DLC crown store price. Note: if subscribers are given a "gold voucher" rather than a "crowns voucher" this might work to allow subscribers to acquire multiple houses at an accelerated rate.
Give housing away and they will make no money obviously; make the prices to high though and they are not going to sell any houses. Resulting not only in unhappy players but also zero furnishing sales.
The voucher for subscribers would obviously provide another reason for people to subscribe; the DLC option an additional revenue option - and they should be able to work it into whatever revenue model they have. It would also be another DLC that they could offer as a future DLC bundle and a future platinum edition.
Sitting and humming still requires effort. Unless you got those in the cash shop.
Maybe when you chop down a tree you should get furniture drops*!
*: Note, perhaps you need the wood to make arrows. YMMV.
Oh I'm all about exerting effort. Sadly most games these days won't let me.
Well looks like ESO is going to give you such an opportunity. Top rank house can be yours for - what - 1+ years of effort, probably 2+ years? Furnishings extra.
i can make 20k a hour running around public dungeons farming That is just from the gold pickup, you then have the items such as spinners sword/dagger/staffs that sell for 50k-500k and all the trash loot you can sell. within a week i have made my 3.5 mill and then some. Its no where near as bad as some people make it out to be. Sure i can pay cash shop to get it without the effort but come on at least its not like archage or FFXIV where you need to get them before they are gone.
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i can make 20k a hour running around public dungeons farming That is just from the gold pickup, you then have the items such as spinners sword/dagger/staffs that sell for 50k-500k and all the trash loot you can sell. within a week i have made my 3.5 mill and then some. Its no where near as bad as some people make it out to be. Sure i can pay cash shop to get it without the effort but come on at least its not like archage or FFXIV where you need to get them before they are gone.
If everyone is trying to save for a house though they won't want to buy spinners / staffs. Most will be just collecting sets after all.
With housing at these prices the economy will change.
So if you sales "decline" and everyone else decides to run around public dungeons - so you don't get 20k an hour - how long do you think it is going to take you to make 2.5M?
And I have a concern that people will become "less helpful".
I will reserve judgement until it hits live, the T in PTS does stand for test you know
Yes. But if you play on the PTS enough, you start to recognize patterns by how often or not certain things are tweaked there and the amount of developer engagement on some of the changes and not others.
We're on our third of 4 patches there already for this update and there have been zero changes related to furnishings material or recipe drop rates. Worse, despite several very active official feedback threads on the PTS forums about this, no developer has engaged in those discussions.
This is exactly the same behavior we saw with crown crates and also, I suspect, the reason the formerly weekly ESO Live twich stream hasn't been seen since shortly after Crown Crates were announced: they just will not talk about changes to the game with an exclusive or heavy cash shop reason at its root.
It's pretty obvious by now that the almost total lack of functional reasons to own any house and the extra level of rarity and RNG associated with crafting furnishings for them are deliberate and they don't really want to discuss it.
So go right ahead and hold judgement for the next week and half and enjoy the shit storm when it hits the general forums then.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Well thanks for trying Bill, but at this point I'm convinced the silence is deliberate.
This is just another typical post from yesterday on the official PTS furnishings feedback thread - a thread that has zero official developer comments on it:
The amount of materials needed to craft items is seriously still way too high. Especially the style materials, 10 to craft a single small item??? Heck, I can craft a full cuirass with **ONE**, why cant I craft a candle with one? Consider I have been collecting style mats from the beginning of early start and the most I have of any is 500, that means I can only craft 30-40 items of a particular style before I run out?? Thats not good. If it takes 15 metal and 1 style mat to make a full piece of chest armor it should take less than that to make a smaller item and maybe about the same to do a bed or dresser.
It's not like this is an isolated comment. Everyone seems to be in agreement that the material requirements to craft anything related to housing is way too high and totally inconsistent with crafting non-housing items.
It's deliberate inconvenience being shoehorned into the game not just for the rare prestige items, for everything related to housing furnishings.
And BTW, they are still keeping the crown cost of both furnished and unfurnished houses secret. No discussion of that wanted either.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Do I understand it correctly when I say that the houses won't provide any inventory/bank space benefit?
Because houses are literally permanent structures built to store yourself and all your stuff. O.o
Yeah. Rich Lambert has said that they are looking at it for the future but they won't launch with any storage,
I am a big fan of housing and the like BUT only if it has some uses. Any kind of housing that serves no purpose other than to look at is just a waste of my time and gold and I don't see myself bothering with it.
We shall see how "much" of a hit this will be if it offers no advantages.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Do I understand it correctly when I say that the houses won't provide any inventory/bank space benefit?
Because houses are literally permanent structures built to store yourself and all your stuff. O.o
Yeah. Rich Lambert has said that they are looking at it for the future but they won't launch with any storage,
I am a big fan of housing and the like BUT only if it has some uses. Any kind of housing that serves no purpose other than to look at is just a waste of my time and gold and I don't see myself bothering with it.
We shall see how "much" of a hit this will be if it offers no advantages.
I'm pretty well the same in games as well as real life: function > form. Housing as they're currently implementing it is just for interior decorating... and they even made that part a hassle.
Anyone already lukewarm about the idea of non-functional housing won't bother with it.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Do I understand it correctly when I say that the houses won't provide any inventory/bank space benefit?
Because houses are literally permanent structures built to store yourself and all your stuff. O.o
Yeah. Rich Lambert has said that they are looking at it for the future but they won't launch with any storage,
I am a big fan of housing and the like BUT only if it has some uses. Any kind of housing that serves no purpose other than to look at is just a waste of my time and gold and I don't see myself bothering with it.
We shall see how "much" of a hit this will be if it offers no advantages.
I'm pretty well the same in games as well as real life: function > form. Housing as they're currently implementing it is just for interior decorating... and they even made that part a hassle.
Anyone already lukewarm about the idea of non-functional housing won't bother with it.
I have to respect that you're able to point out flawed thinking even among a game you've obviously been enjoying for some time now. So Kudos to you on that first off.
Secondly, the fact that housing has even hit the PTS with no real function other than a time and money sink is enough to start raising a fuss. It's akin to the SC ship debacle, only ZOS already released the game and we know they're not going to stop selling these to folks for real cash now that it's released. So, the worst case scenario of an SC release. Also, at least the ships folks are buying in SC will serve a functional and meaningful purpose to the player once it's released.
Quite honestly, we can all expect this trend of giving the players less and less while asking for more and more to continue, generally, until a major backlash event in the industry causes it to cease providing publishers and developers quick cash for minuscule levels of work (sorry, but just drawing ships and modeling/skinning non-functional housing items is, relative to the scope of overall MMORPG development, minuscule). Wanna bet you recognize some art assets from the game world being used as "new" housing decorations? I highly doubt, unless they've already promised their base otherwise, that you'll see 100% unique and new items being added for housing.
Some folks would have us all blindly pay whatever the company asks because "they exist to make money," which obviously means we have no right to protect or further our own interests as consumers (/sarcasm). And while I also don't agree with the other extreme, the answer lies somewhere in the middle. This housing is a step backwards from the housing systems used by MMORPGs pre-WoW era. There's really no excuse for that in 2017.
Do I understand it correctly when I say that the houses won't provide any inventory/bank space benefit?
Because houses are literally permanent structures built to store yourself and all your stuff. O.o
Yeah. Rich Lambert has said that they are looking at it for the future but they won't launch with any storage,
I am a big fan of housing and the like BUT only if it has some uses. Any kind of housing that serves no purpose other than to look at is just a waste of my time and gold and I don't see myself bothering with it.
We shall see how "much" of a hit this will be if it offers no advantages.
I'm pretty well the same in games as well as real life: function > form. Housing as they're currently implementing it is just for interior decorating... and they even made that part a hassle.
Anyone already lukewarm about the idea of non-functional housing won't bother with it.
I have to respect that you're able to point out flawed thinking even among a game you've obviously been enjoying for some time now. So Kudos to you on that first off.
Secondly, the fact that housing has even hit the PTS with no real function other than a time and money sink is enough to start raising a fuss. It's akin to the SC ship debacle, only ZOS already released the game and we know they're not going to stop selling these to folks for real cash now that it's released. So, the worst case scenario of an SC release. Also, at least the ships folks are buying in SC will serve a functional and meaningful purpose to the player once it's released.
Quite honestly, we can all expect this trend of giving the players less and less while asking for more and more to continue, generally, until a major backlash event in the industry causes it to cease providing publishers and developers quick cash for minuscule levels of work (sorry, but just drawing ships and modeling/skinning non-functional housing items is, relative to the scope of overall MMORPG development, minuscule). Wanna bet you recognize some art assets from the game world being used as "new" housing decorations? I highly doubt, unless they've already promised their base otherwise, that you'll see 100% unique and new items being added for housing.
Some folks would have us all blindly pay whatever the company asks because "they exist to make money," which obviously means we have no right to protect or further our own interests as consumers (/sarcasm). And while I also don't agree with the other extreme, the answer lies somewhere in the middle. This housing is a step backwards from the housing systems used by MMORPGs pre-WoW era. There's really no excuse for that in 2017.
You're more right than you know.
One of my first disappointments when I started visiting these houses on the PTS was that other than the two crown exclusive ones, the island and the cave, I had seen every one of them before. The grounds of the larger ones are a bit different but the houses themselves are just copy/paste from existing in-game houses.
Same with the bulk of the furnishings.
Say what you will about housing when WOW finally got around to it, but at least they tried to do something different with game functionality. And Wildstar, despite being a monumental flop, got that part right too.
Going back to housing that is just cosmetic does seem like a giant step backwards.
I thought that at least the crafting aspect would be a positive game play element I could enjoy since I do enjoy crafting. But the obnoxious way they've implemented it is a turn-off.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
One of my first disappointments when I started visiting these houses on the PTS was that other than the two crown exclusive ones, the island and the cave, I had seen every one of them before. The grounds of the larger ones are a bit different but the houses themselves are just copy/paste from existing in-game houses.
Same with the bulk of the furnishings.
Say what you will about housing when WOW finally got around to it, but at least they tried to do something different with game functionality. And Wildstar, despite being a monumental flop, got that part right too.
Going back to housing that is just cosmetic does seem like a giant step backwards.
I thought that at least the crafting aspect would be a positive game play element I could enjoy since I do enjoy crafting. But the obnoxious way they've implemented it is a turn-off.
That's super disappointing even though I know you (like myself) expected at least some of the older assets to be recycled into this update. I still hoped they would severely limit the amount of recycling, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
At the very least, I get that part. It's less than ideal from a player's perspective, but at least I get why (saving on the cost of developing a free update). The non-functional housing goes beyond simply cutting corners. As you said, it's a step backwards. I don't get that.
It's doubly disappointing when you consider the most recent releases for the IP included high levels of functionality and interactivity with all manners of items both mundane and extraordinary.
Comments
So no, it's not exactly the same peacock thing but partly so.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
People are only going to obtain housing items if they have a house. OK they will have a room at the inn. If I was interested in housing though that wouldn't be enough.
Not sure how successful LotR's premium housing has been but the normal housing zones are ghost towns. Extra storage though so I did use them (my multiple alts had their own guilds as well enabling them to own guild halls as well).
this guy seems kinda dumb (the video guy) - what I mean is that he states that he ONLY plays ESO to chase PvE Achievements and that he already has 96% of the Achievements. He states he has enough gold to buy all 3 of the top Manors (10M), but that it would break him of gold to buy them and he must work 40 hours per week at his RL job. I don't get it? If you ONLY chase Achievements then spend the silly gold and buy the 3 manors. gold comes back to you in games very easily and you don't need it anyway because you ONLY chase Achievements... geez... simple! however, I bet he will be SO hot when he gets his Morrowind tattoo.
Sz
Now my view would be: so what. That level of attainment though - medical terms spring to mind.
Sz
Haven't heard anything back?
Also, FYI, the second PTS patch left all of the relevant furnishing crafting drop rates and material requirements to craft unchanged and unlike most other feedback about other PTS changes where several developers have commented on the feedback, it's just crickets on these drop rates... Exactly as was the case with Crown Crate PTS feedback.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
My Review Manifesto
Follow me on Twitter if you dare.
Further to my comment about subscribers above maybe there could therefore be various housing options - 4 of them instead of the current two:
- buy for gold as laid out;
- buy for crowns from the cash shop - presumably part of the current plan;
- give subscriber a bound "housing voucher" with a certain "crown" value or? "gold voucher" (see DLC option), The vouchers could only be used to purchase houses ... or furnishings?
- a DLC option. This would come with some housing related quests. Completion would allow the houses to be bought with gold at a discount to the published prices to reflect the heroic achievements etc. In revenue terms the discount would reflect the DLC crown store price. Note: if subscribers are given a "gold voucher" rather than a "crowns voucher" this might work to allow subscribers to acquire multiple houses at an accelerated rate.
Give housing away and they will make no money obviously; make the prices to high though and they are not going to sell any houses. Resulting not only in unhappy players but also zero furnishing sales.The voucher for subscribers would obviously provide another reason for people to subscribe; the DLC option an additional revenue option - and they should be able to work it into whatever revenue model they have. It would also be another DLC that they could offer as a future DLC bundle and a future platinum edition.
I miss DAoC
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With housing at these prices the economy will change.
So if you sales "decline" and everyone else decides to run around public dungeons - so you don't get 20k an hour - how long do you think it is going to take you to make 2.5M?
And I have a concern that people will become "less helpful".
We're on our third of 4 patches there already for this update and there have been zero changes related to furnishings material or recipe drop rates. Worse, despite several very active official feedback threads on the PTS forums about this, no developer has engaged in those discussions.
This is exactly the same behavior we saw with crown crates and also, I suspect, the reason the formerly weekly ESO Live twich stream hasn't been seen since shortly after Crown Crates were announced: they just will not talk about changes to the game with an exclusive or heavy cash shop reason at its root.
It's pretty obvious by now that the almost total lack of functional reasons to own any house and the extra level of rarity and RNG associated with crafting furnishings for them are deliberate and they don't really want to discuss it.
So go right ahead and hold judgement for the next week and half and enjoy the shit storm when it hits the general forums then.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
My Review Manifesto
Follow me on Twitter if you dare.
This is just another typical post from yesterday on the official PTS furnishings feedback thread - a thread that has zero official developer comments on it:
- The amount of materials needed to craft items is seriously still way too high. Especially the style materials, 10 to craft a single small item??? Heck, I can craft a full cuirass with **ONE**, why cant I craft a candle with one? Consider I have been collecting style mats from the beginning of early start and the most I have of any is 500, that means I can only craft 30-40 items of a particular style before I run out?? Thats not good. If it takes 15 metal and 1 style mat to make a full piece of chest armor it should take less than that to make a smaller item and maybe about the same to do a bed or dresser.
It's not like this is an isolated comment. Everyone seems to be in agreement that the material requirements to craft anything related to housing is way too high and totally inconsistent with crafting non-housing items.It's deliberate inconvenience being shoehorned into the game not just for the rare prestige items, for everything related to housing furnishings.
And BTW, they are still keeping the crown cost of both furnished and unfurnished houses secret. No discussion of that wanted either.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
We shall see how "much" of a hit this will be if it offers no advantages.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Anyone already lukewarm about the idea of non-functional housing won't bother with it.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
There's a good reason for it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Secondly, the fact that housing has even hit the PTS with no real function other than a time and money sink is enough to start raising a fuss. It's akin to the SC ship debacle, only ZOS already released the game and we know they're not going to stop selling these to folks for real cash now that it's released. So, the worst case scenario of an SC release. Also, at least the ships folks are buying in SC will serve a functional and meaningful purpose to the player once it's released.
Quite honestly, we can all expect this trend of giving the players less and less while asking for more and more to continue, generally, until a major backlash event in the industry causes it to cease providing publishers and developers quick cash for minuscule levels of work (sorry, but just drawing ships and modeling/skinning non-functional housing items is, relative to the scope of overall MMORPG development, minuscule). Wanna bet you recognize some art assets from the game world being used as "new" housing decorations? I highly doubt, unless they've already promised their base otherwise, that you'll see 100% unique and new items being added for housing.
Some folks would have us all blindly pay whatever the company asks because "they exist to make money," which obviously means we have no right to protect or further our own interests as consumers (/sarcasm). And while I also don't agree with the other extreme, the answer lies somewhere in the middle. This housing is a step backwards from the housing systems used by MMORPGs pre-WoW era. There's really no excuse for that in 2017.
One of my first disappointments when I started visiting these houses on the PTS was that other than the two crown exclusive ones, the island and the cave, I had seen every one of them before. The grounds of the larger ones are a bit different but the houses themselves are just copy/paste from existing in-game houses.
Same with the bulk of the furnishings.
Say what you will about housing when WOW finally got around to it, but at least they tried to do something different with game functionality. And Wildstar, despite being a monumental flop, got that part right too.
Going back to housing that is just cosmetic does seem like a giant step backwards.
I thought that at least the crafting aspect would be a positive game play element I could enjoy since I do enjoy crafting. But the obnoxious way they've implemented it is a turn-off.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
At the very least, I get that part. It's less than ideal from a player's perspective, but at least I get why (saving on the cost of developing a free update). The non-functional housing goes beyond simply cutting corners. As you said, it's a step backwards. I don't get that.
It's doubly disappointing when you consider the most recent releases for the IP included high levels of functionality and interactivity with all manners of items both mundane and extraordinary.
To which I would add that people to whom housing is a big deal, imo, will be unhappy. Which I see as bad thing.
Suits are entirely driven by profit.
A cash-shop is the ultimate opportunity to maximise profit based on minimal effort - in the short term.
Suits can't think long term - because nothing long term is sexy when it comes to profit.
Game quality will slowly but steadily decline because of this simple circle of greed.
It's not rocket science.