Saying difficulties cheapen the achievement is like saying that someone beating Diablo 2 on Hell Difficulty is the same as someone beating it on Nightmare Difficulty. *eyeroll*
But then, that's why they're the ones managing an MMORPG making millions a month while posters here... aren't.
Yeah I agree. If I beat diablo 2 on hell hardcore without boosts, that would feel like an achievement. Would it cheapen the experience that someone beat Diablo 2 normal not on hardcore? Not at all.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
When a game has different difficulties it cheapens the achievements of those who do it at the harder difficulties. Of course you can argue it encourages participation and more get to complete the content but the guilds who thrive on doing the harder content will ultimately leave. Blizzard has to decide who they want to cater their game to. Having paid for the content people want to be able to complete it but making the content easier will also lose players.
Catering only to hardcore players is not a smart move. Do we really want to go back to vanilla days when most people didn't see the content. The only reason I even played everything but naxxramas at the time was because I played a lot. If this was today, I would probably see none of those raids.
For years i never really raided. I stepped into MC just once, AQ10 maybe 2-3 times and ZG maybe a dozen. I had a great time in Vanila and didnt feel like i was being neglected because i wasnt raiding. It was something i always imagined i would eventualy aspire to but it wasnt high on my list. Seeing players pass by with epic gear from raiding was awesome, it made me pay attention to them and the guild they were in. The whole raiding scene was something to admire and respect.
Ten years later : I log on and have a mind to do some BG's and try out my new fury spec, then i realise its Tuesday and the servers reset tonight so i have to get my LFR done for the weekly rewards. I fucking hate LFR. I join, dont know a single person in the raid, we attack the first boss and im bored. I look over at my other screen and play some hearthstone while my warrior auto attacks the boss. Few mins later boss is dead and im at full health, i auto run in the direction the raid is going because i cant be bothered to use both hands to control my char, next boss is pulled and im auto running into a wall because im focusing on my next move in hearthstone, no one notices or cares, i eventually turn my character around and reach melee range of the boss and manage to get a few hits in before he dies, i get my loot and we move on.
When a game has different difficulties it cheapens the achievements of those who do it at the harder difficulties. Of course you can argue it encourages participation and more get to complete the content but the guilds who thrive on doing the harder content will ultimately leave. Blizzard has to decide who they want to cater their game to. Having paid for the content people want to be able to complete it but making the content easier will also lose players.
Catering only to hardcore players is not a smart move. Do we really want to go back to vanilla days when most people didn't see the content. The only reason I even played everything but naxxramas at the time was because I played a lot. If this was today, I would probably see none of those raids.
The reason most people didn't see the content had nothing to do with difficulty level. The real reason was that in order to see the top level content you had to be a part of this precious little club called a guild, which granted you a permission to see the content if you behaved correctly and logged in according to their schedules.
I'm playing on one of the vanilla wow servers at the moment. I didn't see most of the content back in 2005-2008, and i won't see it this time either even tho i'm between the jobs atm and have all the time in the world. Why? Because i'm not going to register on some 3rd party website and make an application for a permit to participate the high level content of a video game and commit to timetables of some foreigners i don't even know. That's what i'd call inaccessibility.
Now Blizzard has 'solved' this problem by offering several levels of difficulty for this very content. You can now see everything, but the price is watered down gameplay. Who the heck would spend their time for uninteresting and boring game?
What Blizzard should have done is to keep the difficulty as it was in vanilla/TBC version of WoW, but give optional 10 man versions of all raid instances that shares lockdowns with their 25-40 man counterparts, or make two separate server types altogether based on a dungeon size.
It's hilarious they have more or less destroyed the whole game in a name of accessibility, and yet they have failed to recognize the root of the problem. Only a tiny minority of their playerbase progresses in organized raiding, while the rest of the crowd has no other choice but queue for a diluted version of the top end content where you dont need skill or thought, and which promotes zerging and button smashing.
Everything in Blizzard is a dam race,leveling is a race,world firsts,best speed runs etc etc,it is at least to me a pathetic reason to game. I even stopped pvping in games because there is just too much cheating,so anything that is designed towards cheating turns me right off. So i don't care for ladders or rankings or world firsts,it is all completely meaningless to me.If they saved a homeless person from dying,i will stand up and applaud.
finally i can get behind a @Wizardry post! lol you go boy!
When a game has different difficulties it cheapens the achievements of those who do it at the harder difficulties. Of course you can argue it encourages participation and more get to complete the content but the guilds who thrive on doing the harder content will ultimately leave. Blizzard has to decide who they want to cater their game to. Having paid for the content people want to be able to complete it but making the content easier will also lose players.
Catering only to hardcore players is not a smart move. Do we really want to go back to vanilla days when most people didn't see the content. The only reason I even played everything but naxxramas at the time was because I played a lot. If this was today, I would probably see none of those raids.
What Blizzard should have done is to keep the difficulty as it was in vanilla/TBC version of WoW, but give optional 10 man versions of all raid instances that shares lockdowns with their 25-40 man counterparts, or make two separate server types altogether based on a dungeon size.
Back in WotLK and Cata they this exact system. 10 and 25 man versions of the same raids with the same lock outs. But people complained that some raids / boss fights were easier on 25 man than 10 man and vise versa, and so eventually Blizzard scrapped it in favour of a more streamlined system.
I had that difficulty too unable to log on at the times the guild wanted to tackle the Big Bosses. I had a family had to cook and other responsibilities and no flexibility by the guild members on the time frame.I really hated these people who seemed to be able to park themselves the whole night in front of their computer. I found it very hard to attend the raids. I found a more relaxed guild but they were unable to complete the content we kept wiping. That was tiring in another way. I can understand the motivation and why Blizzard did what they did but I wish there were other solutions or different types of servers for people that cannot make the longer log ins without dumbing down.
Two weeks huh? Guess its time to add a nightmare difficulty for gamers like that.
Two weeks, that is nice guys, welcome back to Dala afk. Cause you know, I dont assume those guys will run around and do WQs for the rest of this raidtier anyway.
Two weeks huh? Guess its time to add a nightmare difficulty for gamers like that.
Two weeks, that is nice guys, welcome back to Dala afk. Cause you know, I dont assume those guys will run around and do WQs for the rest of this raidtier anyway.
Once they have geared up, they usually start gearing their alts. Once thats done they start selling Mythic kills in trade chat until the next tier of content. Thats how the raid scene works now.
When a game has different difficulties it cheapens the achievements of those who do it at the harder difficulties. Of course you can argue it encourages participation and more get to complete the content but the guilds who thrive on doing the harder content will ultimately leave. Blizzard has to decide who they want to cater their game to. Having paid for the content people want to be able to complete it but making the content easier will also lose players.
Catering only to hardcore players is not a smart move. Do we really want to go back to vanilla days when most people didn't see the content. The only reason I even played everything but naxxramas at the time was because I played a lot. If this was today, I would probably see none of those raids.
What Blizzard should have done is to keep the difficulty as it was in vanilla/TBC version of WoW, but give optional 10 man versions of all raid instances that shares lockdowns with their 25-40 man counterparts, or make two separate server types altogether based on a dungeon size.
Back in WotLK and Cata they this exact system. 10 and 25 man versions of the same raids with the same lock outs. But people complained that some raids / boss fights were easier on 25 man than 10 man and vise versa, and so eventually Blizzard scrapped it in favour of a more streamlined system.
Yes, i remember this happening back then. That's why i suggested them to be on different servers.
And buffing them up a bit could have been an option for Blizz to consider.
Two weeks huh? Guess its time to add a nightmare difficulty for gamers like that.
Two weeks, that is nice guys, welcome back to Dala afk. Cause you know, I dont assume those guys will run around and do WQs for the rest of this raidtier anyway.
Once they have geared up, they usually start gearing their alts. Once thats done they start selling Mythic kills in trade chat until the next tier of content. Thats how the raid scene works now.
Absolutely wonderful is it not? WoW is such an amazing game.
When a game has different difficulties it cheapens the achievements of those who do it at the harder difficulties. Of course you can argue it encourages participation and more get to complete the content but the guilds who thrive on doing the harder content will ultimately leave. Blizzard has to decide who they want to cater their game to. Having paid for the content people want to be able to complete it but making the content easier will also lose players.
Catering only to hardcore players is not a smart move. Do we really want to go back to vanilla days when most people didn't see the content. The only reason I even played everything but naxxramas at the time was because I played a lot. If this was today, I would probably see none of those raids.
For years i never really raided. I stepped into MC just once, AQ10 maybe 2-3 times and ZG maybe a dozen. I had a great time in Vanila and didnt feel like i was being neglected because i wasnt raiding. It was something i always imagined i would eventualy aspire to but it wasnt high on my list. Seeing players pass by with epic gear from raiding was awesome, it made me pay attention to them and the guild they were in. The whole raiding scene was something to admire and respect.
Ten years later : I log on and have a mind to do some BG's and try out my new fury spec, then i realise its Tuesday and the servers reset tonight so i have to get my LFR done for the weekly rewards. I fucking hate LFR. I join, dont know a single person in the raid, we attack the first boss and im bored. I look over at my other screen and play some hearthstone while my warrior auto attacks the boss. Few mins later boss is dead and im at full health, i auto run in the direction the raid is going because i cant be bothered to use both hands to control my char, next boss is pulled and im auto running into a wall because im focusing on my next move in hearthstone, no one notices or cares, i eventually turn my character around and reach melee range of the boss and manage to get a few hits in before he dies, i get my loot and we move on.
Enough said.
So you're complaining that the easiest raid difficulty, which is there so casuals can see the content, is too easy?...
When a game has different difficulties it cheapens the achievements of those who do it at the harder difficulties. Of course you can argue it encourages participation and more get to complete the content but the guilds who thrive on doing the harder content will ultimately leave. Blizzard has to decide who they want to cater their game to. Having paid for the content people want to be able to complete it but making the content easier will also lose players.
Catering only to hardcore players is not a smart move. Do we really want to go back to vanilla days when most people didn't see the content. The only reason I even played everything but naxxramas at the time was because I played a lot. If this was today, I would probably see none of those raids.
For years i never really raided. I stepped into MC just once, AQ10 maybe 2-3 times and ZG maybe a dozen. I had a great time in Vanila and didnt feel like i was being neglected because i wasnt raiding. It was something i always imagined i would eventualy aspire to but it wasnt high on my list. Seeing players pass by with epic gear from raiding was awesome, it made me pay attention to them and the guild they were in. The whole raiding scene was something to admire and respect.
Ten years later : I log on and have a mind to do some BG's and try out my new fury spec, then i realise its Tuesday and the servers reset tonight so i have to get my LFR done for the weekly rewards. I fucking hate LFR. I join, dont know a single person in the raid, we attack the first boss and im bored. I look over at my other screen and play some hearthstone while my warrior auto attacks the boss. Few mins later boss is dead and im at full health, i auto run in the direction the raid is going because i cant be bothered to use both hands to control my char, next boss is pulled and im auto running into a wall because im focusing on my next move in hearthstone, no one notices or cares, i eventually turn my character around and reach melee range of the boss and manage to get a few hits in before he dies, i get my loot and we move on.
Enough said.
So you're complaining that the easiest raid difficulty, which is there so casuals can see the content, is too easy?...
Most casuals are experienced gamers with limited time to spend on gaming. What they need is content that can be completed in less time than usual, not something you can do on one hand while watching tv. What's the point of playing if pointing and clicking (sometimes not even that) is all that is required to beat content?
When a game has different difficulties it cheapens the achievements of those who do it at the harder difficulties. Of course you can argue it encourages participation and more get to complete the content but the guilds who thrive on doing the harder content will ultimately leave. Blizzard has to decide who they want to cater their game to. Having paid for the content people want to be able to complete it but making the content easier will also lose players.
Catering only to hardcore players is not a smart move. Do we really want to go back to vanilla days when most people didn't see the content. The only reason I even played everything but naxxramas at the time was because I played a lot. If this was today, I would probably see none of those raids.
For years i never really raided. I stepped into MC just once, AQ10 maybe 2-3 times and ZG maybe a dozen. I had a great time in Vanila and didnt feel like i was being neglected because i wasnt raiding. It was something i always imagined i would eventualy aspire to but it wasnt high on my list. Seeing players pass by with epic gear from raiding was awesome, it made me pay attention to them and the guild they were in. The whole raiding scene was something to admire and respect.
Ten years later : I log on and have a mind to do some BG's and try out my new fury spec, then i realise its Tuesday and the servers reset tonight so i have to get my LFR done for the weekly rewards. I fucking hate LFR. I join, dont know a single person in the raid, we attack the first boss and im bored. I look over at my other screen and play some hearthstone while my warrior auto attacks the boss. Few mins later boss is dead and im at full health, i auto run in the direction the raid is going because i cant be bothered to use both hands to control my char, next boss is pulled and im auto running into a wall because im focusing on my next move in hearthstone, no one notices or cares, i eventually turn my character around and reach melee range of the boss and manage to get a few hits in before he dies, i get my loot and we move on.
Enough said.
So you're complaining that the easiest raid difficulty, which is there so casuals can see the content, is too easy?...
If its there so casuals can see the content, why do Blizzard have to offer rewards for doing it every week? Almost everything they add to the game these days has to have a reward for taking part. Why? because most of their content thats been coming out in recent years is subpar and most people (just like LFR as a great example) would not take part in it and would rather do something else that they actually want to do. So they bake these systems into the game where you're basically doing yourself a disservice if you dont complete them. Another example, Garrisons.
When a game has different difficulties it cheapens the achievements of those who do it at the harder difficulties. Of course you can argue it encourages participation and more get to complete the content but the guilds who thrive on doing the harder content will ultimately leave. Blizzard has to decide who they want to cater their game to. Having paid for the content people want to be able to complete it but making the content easier will also lose players.
Catering only to hardcore players is not a smart move. Do we really want to go back to vanilla days when most people didn't see the content. The only reason I even played everything but naxxramas at the time was because I played a lot. If this was today, I would probably see none of those raids.
For years i never really raided. I stepped into MC just once, AQ10 maybe 2-3 times and ZG maybe a dozen. I had a great time in Vanila and didnt feel like i was being neglected because i wasnt raiding. It was something i always imagined i would eventualy aspire to but it wasnt high on my list. Seeing players pass by with epic gear from raiding was awesome, it made me pay attention to them and the guild they were in. The whole raiding scene was something to admire and respect.
Ten years later : I log on and have a mind to do some BG's and try out my new fury spec, then i realise its Tuesday and the servers reset tonight so i have to get my LFR done for the weekly rewards. I fucking hate LFR. I join, dont know a single person in the raid, we attack the first boss and im bored. I look over at my other screen and play some hearthstone while my warrior auto attacks the boss. Few mins later boss is dead and im at full health, i auto run in the direction the raid is going because i cant be bothered to use both hands to control my char, next boss is pulled and im auto running into a wall because im focusing on my next move in hearthstone, no one notices or cares, i eventually turn my character around and reach melee range of the boss and manage to get a few hits in before he dies, i get my loot and we move on.
Enough said.
So you're complaining that the easiest raid difficulty, which is there so casuals can see the content, is too easy?...
If its there so casuals can see the content, why do Blizzard have to offer rewards for doing it every week? Almost everything they add to the game these days has to have a reward for taking part. Why? because most of their content thats been coming out in recent years is subpar and most people (just like LFR as a great example) would not take part in it and would rather do something else that they actually want to do. So they bake these systems into the game where you're basically doing yourself a disservice if you dont complete them. Another example, Garrisons.
Almost everything you do in any mmo has some kind of reward attached to it, whether it be currency, experience, items, etc. LFR has always been tourist mode, it isn't supposed to be challenging. You have 25 random people, mostly from different servers, with varying levels of gear and skill, who aren't using voice communications, all thrown together. If the difficulty of LFR was higher, few groups would ever complete it. If you want a challenge, you have 3 additional tiers of difficulty. At the same time, just because LFR is easy, doesn't mean that they shouldn't offer rewards for doing it.
When a game has different difficulties it cheapens the achievements of those who do it at the harder difficulties. Of course you can argue it encourages participation and more get to complete the content but the guilds who thrive on doing the harder content will ultimately leave. Blizzard has to decide who they want to cater their game to. Having paid for the content people want to be able to complete it but making the content easier will also lose players.
Catering only to hardcore players is not a smart move. Do we really want to go back to vanilla days when most people didn't see the content. The only reason I even played everything but naxxramas at the time was because I played a lot. If this was today, I would probably see none of those raids.
For years i never really raided. I stepped into MC just once, AQ10 maybe 2-3 times and ZG maybe a dozen. I had a great time in Vanila and didnt feel like i was being neglected because i wasnt raiding. It was something i always imagined i would eventualy aspire to but it wasnt high on my list. Seeing players pass by with epic gear from raiding was awesome, it made me pay attention to them and the guild they were in. The whole raiding scene was something to admire and respect.
Ten years later : I log on and have a mind to do some BG's and try out my new fury spec, then i realise its Tuesday and the servers reset tonight so i have to get my LFR done for the weekly rewards. I fucking hate LFR. I join, dont know a single person in the raid, we attack the first boss and im bored. I look over at my other screen and play some hearthstone while my warrior auto attacks the boss. Few mins later boss is dead and im at full health, i auto run in the direction the raid is going because i cant be bothered to use both hands to control my char, next boss is pulled and im auto running into a wall because im focusing on my next move in hearthstone, no one notices or cares, i eventually turn my character around and reach melee range of the boss and manage to get a few hits in before he dies, i get my loot and we move on.
Enough said.
So you're complaining that the easiest raid difficulty, which is there so casuals can see the content, is too easy?...
If its there so casuals can see the content, why do Blizzard have to offer rewards for doing it every week? Almost everything they add to the game these days has to have a reward for taking part. Why? because most of their content thats been coming out in recent years is subpar and most people (just like LFR as a great example) would not take part in it and would rather do something else that they actually want to do. So they bake these systems into the game where you're basically doing yourself a disservice if you dont complete them. Another example, Garrisons.
Almost everything you do in any mmo has some kind of reward attached to it, whether it be currency, experience, items, etc. LFR has always been tourist mode, it isn't supposed to be challenging. You have 25 random people, mostly from different servers, with varying levels of gear and skill, who aren't using voice communications, all thrown together. If the difficulty of LFR was higher, few groups would ever complete it. If you want a challenge, you have 3 additional tiers of difficulty. At the same time, just because LFR is easy, doesn't mean that they shouldn't offer rewards for doing it.
Rewards should be about rewarding your effort, not taking part. And in the case of LFR, it goes beyond offering rewards for taking part. Its a situation where you're putting yourself at a disadvantage if you dont do it every week. So a huge percentage of players are being made to do LFR as a stepping stone to higher end content. This waters down the excitment and satisfaction of the entire raiding experience.
When a game has different difficulties it cheapens the achievements of those who do it at the harder difficulties. Of course you can argue it encourages participation and more get to complete the content but the guilds who thrive on doing the harder content will ultimately leave. Blizzard has to decide who they want to cater their game to. Having paid for the content people want to be able to complete it but making the content easier will also lose players.
Catering only to hardcore players is not a smart move. Do we really want to go back to vanilla days when most people didn't see the content. The only reason I even played everything but naxxramas at the time was because I played a lot. If this was today, I would probably see none of those raids.
For years i never really raided. I stepped into MC just once, AQ10 maybe 2-3 times and ZG maybe a dozen. I had a great time in Vanila and didnt feel like i was being neglected because i wasnt raiding. It was something i always imagined i would eventualy aspire to but it wasnt high on my list. Seeing players pass by with epic gear from raiding was awesome, it made me pay attention to them and the guild they were in. The whole raiding scene was something to admire and respect.
Ten years later : I log on and have a mind to do some BG's and try out my new fury spec, then i realise its Tuesday and the servers reset tonight so i have to get my LFR done for the weekly rewards. I fucking hate LFR. I join, dont know a single person in the raid, we attack the first boss and im bored. I look over at my other screen and play some hearthstone while my warrior auto attacks the boss. Few mins later boss is dead and im at full health, i auto run in the direction the raid is going because i cant be bothered to use both hands to control my char, next boss is pulled and im auto running into a wall because im focusing on my next move in hearthstone, no one notices or cares, i eventually turn my character around and reach melee range of the boss and manage to get a few hits in before he dies, i get my loot and we move on.
Enough said.
So you're complaining that the easiest raid difficulty, which is there so casuals can see the content, is too easy?...
If its there so casuals can see the content, why do Blizzard have to offer rewards for doing it every week? Almost everything they add to the game these days has to have a reward for taking part. Why? because most of their content thats been coming out in recent years is subpar and most people (just like LFR as a great example) would not take part in it and would rather do something else that they actually want to do. So they bake these systems into the game where you're basically doing yourself a disservice if you dont complete them. Another example, Garrisons.
Almost everything you do in any mmo has some kind of reward attached to it, whether it be currency, experience, items, etc. LFR has always been tourist mode, it isn't supposed to be challenging. You have 25 random people, mostly from different servers, with varying levels of gear and skill, who aren't using voice communications, all thrown together. If the difficulty of LFR was higher, few groups would ever complete it. If you want a challenge, you have 3 additional tiers of difficulty. At the same time, just because LFR is easy, doesn't mean that they shouldn't offer rewards for doing it.
Rewards should be about rewarding your effort, not taking part. And in the case of LFR, it goes beyond offering rewards for taking part. Its a situation where you're putting yourself at a disadvantage if you dont do it every week. So a huge percentage of players are being made to do LFR as a stepping stone to higher end content. This waters down the excitment and satisfaction of the entire raiding experience.
The weekly rewards for LFR have never been significant enough that I felt like I was obligated to run it.
nothing wrong with tiers of difficulty , it makes the raiding enjoyable for every1.
is like Easy , normal , hard , and games have been adding nightmare , or extreme ect ...
D3 has what? 20 tiers? more hp more dmg , more affixes , in mmorpgs mechanics hit for more change , add new mechanics ...
I'm in favor for multiple levels of difficulty as well, but it has to apply to all content, not just a tiny part of it.
Imagine if you buy a game of Doom for $60 only to find out that the only level of difficulty available is 'very easy', and after a few hours long snoozefest just before the last boss fight game prompts you to select a difficulty level for the last boss only.
Coming back to WoW, there should be a server wide difficulty level that applies to questing, leveling dungeons, crafting, reputations... even garrisons and pet battles. It's not acceptable that all players have to suffer LFR level difficulty aside from raiding.
So you're complaining that the easiest raid difficulty, which is there so casuals can see the content, is too easy?...
If its there so casuals can see the content, why do Blizzard have to offer rewards for doing it every week? Almost everything they add to the game these days has to have a reward for taking part. Why? because most of their content thats been coming out in recent years is subpar and most people (just like LFR as a great example) would not take part in it and would rather do something else that they actually want to do. So they bake these systems into the game where you're basically doing yourself a disservice if you dont complete them. Another example, Garrisons.
Almost everything you do in any mmo has some kind of reward attached to it, whether it be currency, experience, items, etc. LFR has always been tourist mode, it isn't supposed to be challenging. You have 25 random people, mostly from different servers, with varying levels of gear and skill, who aren't using voice communications, all thrown together. If the difficulty of LFR was higher, few groups would ever complete it. If you want a challenge, you have 3 additional tiers of difficulty. At the same time, just because LFR is easy, doesn't mean that they shouldn't offer rewards for doing it.
Rewards should be about rewarding your effort, not taking part. And in the case of LFR, it goes beyond offering rewards for taking part. Its a situation where you're putting yourself at a disadvantage if you dont do it every week. So a huge percentage of players are being made to do LFR as a stepping stone to higher end content. This waters down the excitment and satisfaction of the entire raiding experience.
The weekly rewards for LFR have never been significant enough that I felt like I was obligated to run it.
Never?
In Cata, Mop and WoD
- meaningful gear could drop from LFR - i had quests for legendary items in LFR that lasted for months - in some expansions LFR awarded valor
In Legion, dont you now have an extra chance at a legendary each week if you comeplete LFR ?
Im not playing Legion anymore so i cant really comment much on its current reward state but certainly in the past LFR as been an obligation for anyone taking raiding and progression seriously.
The weekly rewards for LFR have never been significant enough that I felt like I was obligated to run it.
Never?
In Cata, Mop and WoD
- meaningful gear could drop from LFR - i had quests for legendary items in LFR that lasted for months - in some expansions LFR awarded valor
In Legion, dont you now have an extra chance at a legendary each week if you comeplete LFR ?
Im not playing Legion anymore so i cant really comment much on its current reward state but certainly in the past LFR as been an obligation for anyone taking raiding and progression seriously.
Gear can drop on all raid difficulties, it isn't specific to LFR. In WoD, tier gear didn't even drop in LFR. I never bothered with the legendary questlines in previous x-pacs because I wasn't doing content that required me having a legendary. Yes, LFR rewarded valor in previous expacs, but so did heroic dungeons. In Legion, legendaries can drop from almost everything; including dungeons, raids, emissary caches, mythic chests, etc.
The weekly rewards for LFR have never been significant enough that I felt like I was obligated to run it.
Never?
In Cata, Mop and WoD
- meaningful gear could drop from LFR - i had quests for legendary items in LFR that lasted for months - in some expansions LFR awarded valor
In Legion, dont you now have an extra chance at a legendary each week if you comeplete LFR ?
Im not playing Legion anymore so i cant really comment much on its current reward state but certainly in the past LFR as been an obligation for anyone taking raiding and progression seriously.
Gear can drop on all raid difficulties, it isn't specific to LFR. In WoD, tier gear didn't even drop in LFR. I never bothered with the legendary questlines in previous x-pacs because I wasn't doing content that required me having a legendary. Yes, LFR rewarded valor in previous expacs, but so did heroic dungeons. In Legion, legendaries can drop from almost everything; including dungeons, raids, emissary caches, mythic chests, etc.
Not really rebutting my point though are you. You didn't bother with legendary questlines but most players who took progession seriously did. Yes valour was rewarded from heroic dungeons but there was a cap on how much you could earn each week and a % of that cap could only be done through LFR. In Legion legendaries can drop from anything, yeah, but that wasnt what i said was it. I said you have an extra chance at a legendary drop if you comeplete it each week, which is was many many players do even though they dislike LFR.
The weekly rewards for LFR have never been significant enough that I felt like I was obligated to run it.
Never?
In Cata, Mop and WoD
- meaningful gear could drop from LFR - i had quests for legendary items in LFR that lasted for months - in some expansions LFR awarded valor
In Legion, dont you now have an extra chance at a legendary each week if you comeplete LFR ?
Im not playing Legion anymore so i cant really comment much on its current reward state but certainly in the past LFR as been an obligation for anyone taking raiding and progression seriously.
Gear can drop on all raid difficulties, it isn't specific to LFR. In WoD, tier gear didn't even drop in LFR. I never bothered with the legendary questlines in previous x-pacs because I wasn't doing content that required me having a legendary. Yes, LFR rewarded valor in previous expacs, but so did heroic dungeons. In Legion, legendaries can drop from almost everything; including dungeons, raids, emissary caches, mythic chests, etc.
Not really rebutting my point though are you. You didn't bother with legendary questlines but most players who took progession seriously did. Yes valour was rewarded from heroic dungeons but there was a cap on how much you could earn each week and a % of that cap could only be done through LFR. In Legion legendaries can drop from anything, yeah, but that wasnt what i said was it. I said you have an extra chance at a legendary drop if you comeplete it each week, which is was many many players do even though they dislike LFR.
People who took progression seriously and were doing the legendary questline in previous x-pacs weren't obligated to run LFR though, they could run higher difficulties, where the sigils for the legendary questline also dropped. In Legion, any boss in LFR has a chance to drop a legendary. But as previously mentioned, so does almost everything else. All 4 of the legendaries that I've gotten have come from emissary caches that are obtained from world quests. Running LFR to obtain a legendary is not very efficient.
Especially now with warforge/titanforge, you can easily get gear through dungeons and world bosses/quests that's better than anything in LFR. So this takes me back to the original point, you can't run the easiest difficulty setting for a raid, and then complain that it's too easy. You have normal, heroic, and mythic if you wan't a challenge.
The weekly rewards for LFR have never been significant enough that I felt like I was obligated to run it.
Never?
In Cata, Mop and WoD
- meaningful gear could drop from LFR - i had quests for legendary items in LFR that lasted for months - in some expansions LFR awarded valor
In Legion, dont you now have an extra chance at a legendary each week if you comeplete LFR ?
Im not playing Legion anymore so i cant really comment much on its current reward state but certainly in the past LFR as been an obligation for anyone taking raiding and progression seriously.
Gear can drop on all raid difficulties, it isn't specific to LFR. In WoD, tier gear didn't even drop in LFR. I never bothered with the legendary questlines in previous x-pacs because I wasn't doing content that required me having a legendary. Yes, LFR rewarded valor in previous expacs, but so did heroic dungeons. In Legion, legendaries can drop from almost everything; including dungeons, raids, emissary caches, mythic chests, etc.
Not really rebutting my point though are you. You didn't bother with legendary questlines but most players who took progession seriously did. Yes valour was rewarded from heroic dungeons but there was a cap on how much you could earn each week and a % of that cap could only be done through LFR. In Legion legendaries can drop from anything, yeah, but that wasnt what i said was it. I said you have an extra chance at a legendary drop if you comeplete it each week, which is was many many players do even though they dislike LFR.
People who took progression seriously and were doing the legendary questline in previous x-pacs weren't obligated to run LFR though, they could run higher difficulties, where the sigils for the legendary questline also dropped. In Legion, any boss in LFR has a chance to drop a legendary. But as previously mentioned, so does almost everything else. All 4 of the legendaries that I've gotten have come from emissary caches that are obtained from world quests. Running LFR to obtain a legendary is not very efficient.
Especially now with warforge/titanforge, you can easily get gear through dungeons and world bosses/quests that's better than anything in LFR. So this takes me back to the original point, you can't run the easiest difficulty setting for a raid, and then complain that it's too easy. You have normal, heroic, and mythic if you wan't a challenge.
Actually you missed the original point. Which was that LFR dilutes the excitment and experience of those who took raiding seriously. Not everything has to be served up on a plater to everyone. And as for your argument that LFR isnt necessary for people serious about progresion, i still stand by my earlier statement. Anyone taking progresion seriously runs LFR every week. It might not be as much the case in this current expac but in previous patches over the years it was very much required. So we will have to agree to disagree.
Most casuals are experienced gamers with limited time to spend on gaming. What they need is content that can be completed in less time than usual, not something you can do on one hand while watching tv. What's the point of playing if pointing and clicking (sometimes not even that) is all that is required to beat content?
The weekly rewards for LFR have never been significant enough that I felt like I was obligated to run it.
Never?
In Cata, Mop and WoD
- meaningful gear could drop from LFR - i had quests for legendary items in LFR that lasted for months - in some expansions LFR awarded valor
In Legion, dont you now have an extra chance at a legendary each week if you comeplete LFR ?
Im not playing Legion anymore so i cant really comment much on its current reward state but certainly in the past LFR as been an obligation for anyone taking raiding and progression seriously.
Gear can drop on all raid difficulties, it isn't specific to LFR. In WoD, tier gear didn't even drop in LFR. I never bothered with the legendary questlines in previous x-pacs because I wasn't doing content that required me having a legendary. Yes, LFR rewarded valor in previous expacs, but so did heroic dungeons. In Legion, legendaries can drop from almost everything; including dungeons, raids, emissary caches, mythic chests, etc.
Not really rebutting my point though are you. You didn't bother with legendary questlines but most players who took progession seriously did. Yes valour was rewarded from heroic dungeons but there was a cap on how much you could earn each week and a % of that cap could only be done through LFR. In Legion legendaries can drop from anything, yeah, but that wasnt what i said was it. I said you have an extra chance at a legendary drop if you comeplete it each week, which is was many many players do even though they dislike LFR.
People who took progression seriously and were doing the legendary questline in previous x-pacs weren't obligated to run LFR though, they could run higher difficulties, where the sigils for the legendary questline also dropped. In Legion, any boss in LFR has a chance to drop a legendary. But as previously mentioned, so does almost everything else. All 4 of the legendaries that I've gotten have come from emissary caches that are obtained from world quests. Running LFR to obtain a legendary is not very efficient.
Especially now with warforge/titanforge, you can easily get gear through dungeons and world bosses/quests that's better than anything in LFR. So this takes me back to the original point, you can't run the easiest difficulty setting for a raid, and then complain that it's too easy. You have normal, heroic, and mythic if you wan't a challenge.
Actually you missed the original point. Which was that LFR dilutes the excitment and experience of those who took raiding seriously. Not everything has to be served up on a plater to everyone. And as for your argument that LFR isnt necessary for people serious about progresion, i still stand by my earlier statement. Anyone taking progresion seriously runs LFR every week. It might not be as much the case in this current expac but in previous patches over the years it was very much required. So we will have to agree to disagree.
LFR doesn't dilute anything though. People who take raiding seriously are running higher difficulty raids and don't particularly care about LFR. The existence of LFR doesn't somehow diminish the accomplishments of heroic/mythic raiders. And saying that not everything has to be served on a platter is just silly. WoW achieved it's success in large part by catering to all levels of players, from the most casual quester, to the most hardcore raider. LFR has allowed a significant number of players to see content that they otherwise never would have seen, which is a win/win for both players and developers.
LFR doesn't dilute anything though. People who take raiding seriously are running higher difficulty raids and don't particularly care about LFR. The existence of LFR doesn't somehow diminish the accomplishments of heroic/mythic raiders. And saying that not everything has to be served on a platter is just silly. WoW achieved it's success in large part by catering to all levels of players, from the most casual quester, to the most hardcore raider. LFR has allowed a significant number of players to see content that they otherwise never would have seen, which is a win/win for both players and developers.
WoW achieved its success in Vanila,TBC and early WotLK when things were hard, time consuming and not aimed at every type of player, and when they started dumbing everything down to cater to all levels of players what happened?
Comments
Yeah I agree. If I beat diablo 2 on hell hardcore without boosts, that would feel like an achievement. Would it cheapen the experience that someone beat Diablo 2 normal not on hardcore? Not at all.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
It was something i always imagined i would eventualy aspire to but it wasnt high on my list.
Seeing players pass by with epic gear from raiding was awesome, it made me pay attention to them and the guild they were in. The whole raiding scene was something to admire and respect.
Ten years later : I log on and have a mind to do some BG's and try out my new fury spec, then i realise its Tuesday and the servers reset tonight so i have to get my LFR done for the weekly rewards. I fucking hate LFR. I join, dont know a single person in the raid, we attack the first boss and im bored. I look over at my other screen and play some hearthstone while my warrior auto attacks the boss. Few mins later boss is dead and im at full health, i auto run in the direction the raid is going because i cant be bothered to use both hands to control my char, next boss is pulled and im auto running into a wall because im focusing on my next move in hearthstone, no one notices or cares, i eventually turn my character around and reach melee range of the boss and manage to get a few hits in before he dies, i get my loot and we move on.
Enough said.
The reason most people didn't see the content had nothing to do with difficulty level. The real reason was that in order to see the top level content you had to be a part of this precious little club called a guild, which granted you a permission to see the content if you behaved correctly and logged in according to their schedules.
I'm playing on one of the vanilla wow servers at the moment. I didn't see most of the content back in 2005-2008, and i won't see it this time either even tho i'm between the jobs atm and have all the time in the world. Why? Because i'm not going to register on some 3rd party website and make an application for a permit to participate the high level content of a video game and commit to timetables of some foreigners i don't even know. That's what i'd call inaccessibility.
Now Blizzard has 'solved' this problem by offering several levels of difficulty for this very content. You can now see everything, but the price is watered down gameplay. Who the heck would spend their time for uninteresting and boring game?
What Blizzard should have done is to keep the difficulty as it was in vanilla/TBC version of WoW, but give optional 10 man versions of all raid instances that shares lockdowns with their 25-40 man counterparts, or make two separate server types altogether based on a dungeon size.
It's hilarious they have more or less destroyed the whole game in a name of accessibility, and yet they have failed to recognize the root of the problem. Only a tiny minority of their playerbase progresses in organized raiding, while the rest of the crowd has no other choice but queue for a diluted version of the top end content where you dont need skill or thought, and which promotes zerging and button smashing.
Guess its time to add a nightmare difficulty for gamers like that.
Two weeks, that is nice guys, welcome back to Dala afk.
And buffing them up a bit could have been an option for Blizz to consider.
Absolutely wonderful is it not?
WoW is such an amazing game.
So you're complaining that the easiest raid difficulty, which is there so casuals can see the content, is too easy?...
is like Easy , normal , hard , and games have been adding nightmare , or extreme ect ...
D3 has what? 20 tiers? more hp more dmg , more affixes , in mmorpgs mechanics hit for more change , add new mechanics ...
And in the case of LFR, it goes beyond offering rewards for taking part. Its a situation where you're putting yourself at a disadvantage if you dont do it every week. So a huge percentage of players are being made to do LFR as a stepping stone to higher end content. This waters down the excitment and satisfaction of the entire raiding experience.
Imagine if you buy a game of Doom for $60 only to find out that the only level of difficulty available is 'very easy', and after a few hours long snoozefest just before the last boss fight game prompts you to select a difficulty level for the last boss only.
Coming back to WoW, there should be a server wide difficulty level that applies to questing, leveling dungeons, crafting, reputations... even garrisons and pet battles. It's not acceptable that all players have to suffer LFR level difficulty aside from raiding.
In Cata, Mop and WoD
- meaningful gear could drop from LFR
- i had quests for legendary items in LFR that lasted for months
- in some expansions LFR awarded valor
In Legion, dont you now have an extra chance at a legendary each week if you comeplete LFR ?
Im not playing Legion anymore so i cant really comment much on its current reward state but certainly in the past LFR as been an obligation for anyone taking raiding and progression seriously.
You didn't bother with legendary questlines but most players who took progession seriously did.
Yes valour was rewarded from heroic dungeons but there was a cap on how much you could earn each week and a % of that cap could only be done through LFR.
In Legion legendaries can drop from anything, yeah, but that wasnt what i said was it. I said you have an extra chance at a legendary drop if you comeplete it each week, which is was many many players do even though they dislike LFR.
People who took progression seriously and were doing the legendary questline in previous x-pacs weren't obligated to run LFR though, they could run higher difficulties, where the sigils for the legendary questline also dropped. In Legion, any boss in LFR has a chance to drop a legendary. But as previously mentioned, so does almost everything else. All 4 of the legendaries that I've gotten have come from emissary caches that are obtained from world quests. Running LFR to obtain a legendary is not very efficient.
Especially now with warforge/titanforge, you can easily get gear through dungeons and world bosses/quests that's better than anything in LFR. So this takes me back to the original point, you can't run the easiest difficulty setting for a raid, and then complain that it's too easy. You have normal, heroic, and mythic if you wan't a challenge.