Originally posted by Athela I have to give Helios full credit for his recent communication and dialogue with players. He is doing everything right in that regard. If he can keep it going, and keep the game on a given course (though I disagree with it), then maybe he can turn things around. Best of luck. Athela
When I read the first sentence I almost flipped. Then I finished reading. I have to say I agree. He is putting forth SOME effort to share information. His ideas may be WAY off, especially about a virtual world, but he does seem to be at least acting like players exist. He still has the attitude that he knows better than the players, but at least he's talking to them.
SWG Tempest: Cardo Dycen RIP Eve: Cardoh Dycen I support random drug testing for all SOE employees
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by gmmonkey I hate how they keep on saying theyre fixing the bugs as thought its just a brand new game theyve released. I mean FFS, that's nearly been 3 years. If they just stuck with the pre-cu combat system it would of been sorted out by now with hardly any bugs. Its taken them 3 years to get to a state thats similar to a brand new release. Total idiots. The gcw publish looks quite nice, but they should of had that in 2 years ago. I really really want to violently shake some sense into the devs.
Yeah, but they had 32 professions (or 992 if you count all the possible combinations) back then that they had to cater for. Now they only have to worry about 9 so more time can be devoted to the bug squashing. Pre-CU was very complex, tweaking one thing could horribly out balance another or completely break it. actually 9 base classes and 3 each sub expertise systems. unless you are locked into one sub set then you are talking almsot the same thing as 32 different professions. Only thing missing is the ability to switch your base class unless you spend money. I fail to see win here Obraik.
Hmmmm... something intresting... Remeber all the rumors about the new strategy guide coming out where it had new professions in it. I'm wondering if this is what it was referring to. The book is suppose to be out at the end of this month.
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars.. Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons... Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
The waypoint system will be refined to work seamlessly both indoors and out. This will allow easier navigation to points of interest or mission objectives.
Ok, should have always worked this way, but I'll take it. It's an improvement.
Lair Modifications:
Various improvements to the creature lairs are being implemented. These improvements will allow us to set up things like attack “waves”, rare spawns and boss creature spawns with more precisions and consistency. Right, this is how it worked before the NGE. There were waves. So you wasted development time on this. Good job.
Targeting Enhancements
We’re going to review the targeting system for both combat and non-combat situations. Specifically we’re shooting for targeting assist mechanisms similar to what we have in space. This upgrade to the targeting system will also make it easier to target things for situations like house decorating.
Ha. It's nice to see a small bit of SOE head popping out of it's @ss.
Tool Tips
You’ll start seeing improvements to the character sheet in this publish starting with tool-tips that give a better idea of what various character attributes do for you. This is the first step in reintroducing meaningful character stats to SWG. With the changes to the combat system (see below), player stats will become more important as we de-emphasize player level as an explicit input into any given attack. The expertise system will add more stats for players to tinker around with.
Yeah, this is a cover up. By "Tool Tips" they actually mean "we told you you had stats before, but you really didn't. We just put those in there to screw with you, they didn't do anything." Wow, thanks for admitting the game had no working systems when you developed the NGE. Great Job. A #1 developing there.
Weapons & Combat System Changes
We’re going to alter the combat engine to place primary importance on player equipment instead of player level. This means that acquiring better equipment will be of great importance. Existing weapons will automatically have their damage/speed values changed if necessary. Various other combat mechanisms are being investigated in support of the Expertise system that’s also being developed in this publish. Things like glancing blows (misses) and critical hits are all being looked at. Right, again, this is how it worked before the NGE. By making changes like this you are basically saying you wasted your own and your players time by making it any different in the first place. Your time equals our money. So you wasted our money on crap. Good Job.
Expertise System
For this publish we’re going to develop the framework for the expertise system. The portion being developed for this publish will not be visible to players when the publish goes live. This initiative is strictly to build the supporting framework for the Expertise system. With this system, players will gain new stats and abilities based on how they spend their Expertise points, which are earned as they progress in level. The first professions to have their Expertise trees deployed will be Bounty Hunter and Jedi. This will happen in publish 30. We’re targeting 2 professions every publish after that. You are going to develop the "framework" for a system that we won't see? Ok, that is not worthy of publish notes. Keep this kinda crap to yourself, or on the long term plan. Don't try to sell it off like it's some great new improvement. Also, doing 2 professions at a time is a complete cop out. So you are going to have Bounty Hunters running around with their great new ability to catch all the PvPers and they have all these nifty new "Expertise" systems that everyone else doesn't have. Wow......just wow. Way to prioritize. You base your development timeline on how many people play each profession, yet you make it so that if you play certain professions you are a moron. It's like cattle herding. You are basically saying that as of publish 30, everyone will be Bounty Hunter or Jedi because those are the only professions you care about.
High End Content
The Galacitc Civil War erupts in a major conflict that will cause drastic upheaval on one of the planets in the Galaxy. This spectacular event will be showcased at this year’s E3 and will make its debut on a galaxy near you with publish 29. Players will choose a side to fight for and will join this massive battle amidst Imperial troopers & Rebel commandos. Pull this off with no bugs and I'll be shocked. I'm gonna laugh my ass off when you show this buggy pile of crap at E3. Way to get laughed out of the conference.
Quest Content
Publish 29 will bring all new quest content that will take your character from level 37 to level 41. The planets on which these adventures will take place include Corellia and Talus. What's it gonna be now? Luke Skywalker needs me to change his tire? Lando needs a new cup of coffee, stat? Chewie needs a new hairbrush? When we asked for content in the Pre-CU, we didn't want to be Darth Vader's Intern. Just because the "movie" characters have us running around plucking Jawa hairs doesn't mean these quests your write are "Star Warsy". No one asked for a Quest based game, way to be original, brainiacs.
Bug Fixes
In our continued bid to drastically improve the game experience, we will continue to aggressively address current bugs and live issues during publish 29 development. You can look forward to a wide variety of issues being fixed from all facets of the game.Wow, shall I be impressed? I'll bow down to you for FIXING THINGS!! OH MY GOD!! SWG HAS BUGS! NO F-ING WAY!
Ya know. I know I'm a cynical bastard. And I know that SOE can do no good in my eyes these days. But ya know why? Because they have wasted everyone's time. They created a system that no one liked and they stuck with it. They stuck with it to the point that they are selling back things we used to have and spinning it like "Hey, We are working hard making this game fun again!" Guess what your morons, it was fun before! You ruined it and in the proccess burned all your bridges. Why are we mad and not excited you are bringing back things we liked? Because if you have just left the system the way it was and worked hard and making it better, you would be far beyond the meager steps you've taken with this NGE pile of crap by now. Or better yet, if you had been so very intent on the NGE, you should have kept it in development untill you had all this crap straightend out. Had you rolled out a complete game with full working systems, you may very well have kept your game alive. Now, what you are doing could be considered necrophelia.
Originally posted by JediGeek Originally posted by Athela I have to give Helios full credit for his recent communication and dialogue with players. He is doing everything right in that regard. If he can keep it going, and keep the game on a given course (though I disagree with it), then maybe he can turn things around. Best of luck. Athela
When I read the first sentence I almost flipped. Then I finished reading. I have to say I agree. He is putting forth SOME effort to share information. His ideas may be WAY off, especially about a virtual world, but he does seem to be at least acting like players exist. He still has the attitude that he knows better than the players, but at least he's talking to them.
Maybe he was afraid of talking to a crowd before, and now that the playerbase has been minimized, he's much better now.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by New_to_MMO you want devs who talk to the players, go see how many posts KFR and Kanoth have over on the Roma Victor forums. THAT'S communication. and they actually listen to the beta testers that have good ideas.
No doubt. They do a great job of communicating with their players but without straying from their basic parameters for the game. God I hope they can pull that game off....
In fact, I will go so far as to say that the industry NEEDS Roma Victor to be successfull. It will send a clear message that you dont have to appeal to the lowest common denominator to have a hit.
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
Originally posted by Shayde Originally posted by New_to_MMO Did they really need to balance 32 prof's. Dancer doesn't need to be balanced does it?? Image Designer balanced? Droid Engineer balance? Doctor? Am I wrong or is it just combat prof's that need balancing? I can't remember, but how many combat prof's were there? 12 or 13 or so?
QFE
That's why they cop out when they use that excuse. Who had to balance Politician? Droid Engineer? There were maybe 12 that would need "balance" and many would argue they were pretty close to begin with.
Ok, sure, take out the non-combat professions and you are still left with a large number of professions, and then you can combine them all. If they give a profession a revamp then they would have needed to think "what happens if it's then combined with this other profession?" Yes, they were behind from the start which made things much worse
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by Shayde Originally posted by New_to_MMO Did they really need to balance 32 prof's. Dancer doesn't need to be balanced does it?? Image Designer balanced? Droid Engineer balance? Doctor? Am I wrong or is it just combat prof's that need balancing? I can't remember, but how many combat prof's were there? 12 or 13 or so?
QFE
That's why they cop out when they use that excuse. Who had to balance Politician? Droid Engineer? There were maybe 12 that would need "balance" and many would argue they were pretty close to begin with.
Ok, sure, take out the non-combat professions and you are still left with a large number of professions, and then you can combine them all. If they give a profession a revamp then they would have needed to think "what happens if it's then combined with this other profession?" Yes, they were behind from the start which made things much worse
Yes, but you're pre-supposing that there is much of a difference between classes. Really, think back. All the ranged/melee were the same, except for what pool they hit. TKA, BH, commando and Smuggler weren't that far off from the mains... all had their own niche really.
So mixing them wasn't a problem. IF, and here's a BIG if...
THEY ACTUALLY HAD THE BUGS WORKED OUT.
Why did Melee become Uber? They never fixed the defense stacking. The bugs of Carbineer were just that, bugs. If they actually fixed the bugs, this would have NEVER been an issue. Broken specials in Pistols? Bug.
They never needed to balance. They needed to fix bugs.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by Shayde "there will be no target lock" "there will be no target lock" "there will be no target lock" "there will be no target lock" "there will be no target lock" "there will be no target lock" "there will be no target lock" "there will be no target lock" "there will be no target lock" "there will be no target lock" "there will be no target lock" "there will be no target lock" "there will be no target lock"
Originally posted by Shayde Originally posted by New_to_MMO Did they really need to balance 32 prof's. Dancer doesn't need to be balanced does it?? Image Designer balanced? Droid Engineer balance? Doctor? Am I wrong or is it just combat prof's that need balancing? I can't remember, but how many combat prof's were there? 12 or 13 or so?
QFE
That's why they cop out when they use that excuse. Who had to balance Politician? Droid Engineer? There were maybe 12 that would need "balance" and many would argue they were pretty close to begin with.
What was close ? I don't recall any profession alone that was viable in open PVP . It all was dependant on your template choice . How many Carbineer Docs did you see who would defeat a master fencer , doc , pistoleer / swords or tk stacked temp ? Very few that is for sure and all I can say is the fencer had no clue what he was doing .
Do you call this balance/even ? My pre cu fencer Temp was mfencer/4030doc/0040 pistoleer Unbuffed I had serious dizzy and kd defence on top of that some of the best cures/stims on the server I played on . 40%stun 80% armor a few high tick mind fires and health poisons . One day i was hanging at dant mining overt when 5 imps port in 3 ranged guys 2 Melee one being a tkm /doc with a few dots one was also a bh with a nice pistol using body shot . Well any way i took them all out with almost no problem . That is balance to you ?
This was a common outcome on bloodfin stacker docs with dots beat anyone ,who did not enjoy that skill set . Jedi were cake with my temp and 600+ dmg gaffy .Don't get me wrong i loved my pre-cu character , But anyone who says it was balanced or even is smoking something .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So?? Regarding the targeting, does this mean click, click, click fighting is gone and combat can be hotkeyed again??
I'm missing the game and one main reason was the combat changes (that amongst many, too many) If combat has its targeting and lock returned i may waver and return. Fighting SOE from the outside doesn't work, it may cost a tenner a month, but to play em at their own game i think you have to be playing.
Feel free to talk me out of it, just looking at my credit card makes me feel dirty as it is.
[edit] What am i thinking??? Rollback or nothing!!! Damn, really do miss playing the old game though.
Originally posted by Malickiebloo What was close ? I don't recall any profession alone that was viable in open PVP . It all was dependant on your template choice . How many Carbineer Docs did you see who would defeat a master fencer , doc , pistoleer / swords or tk stacked temp ? Very few that is for sure and all I can say is the fencer had no clue what he was doing . Do you call this balance/even ? My pre cu fencer Temp was mfencer/4030doc/0040 pistoleer Unbuffed I had serious dizzy and kd defence on top of that some of the best cures/stims on the server I played on . 40%stun 80% armor a few high tick mind fires and health poisons . One day i was hanging at dant mining overt when 5 imps port in 3 ranged guys 2 Melee one being a tkm /doc with a few dots one was also a bh with a nice pistol using body shot . Well any way i took them all out with almost no problem . That is balance to you ? This was a common outcome on bloodfin stacker docs with dots beat anyone ,who did not enjoy that skill set . Jedi were cake with my temp and 600+ dmg gaffy .Don't get me wrong i loved my pre-cu character , But anyone who says it was balanced or even is smoking something .
Quite frankly, because "balance" is unnecessary. Whining about every class being equal in PVP is what got us this mess in the first place. You bitching that the latest flavor-of-the-month is UBAR in PVP and can't be beat.. well then BECOME that template or quit bitching. That, and there's always another FOTM.
Did you hear entertainers/bio-engineers bitching THEY weren't UBAR in pvp? Tailors/artisans?
And to top that off.. you bitch about carbineer. One of the MANY classes that were broken due to bugs. Bitching Doc was too powerful? Cooldown time the stims or lower their effectiveness, DON'T THROW OUT 32 PROFESSIONS.
They were closer to "balance" than they care to admit pre-cu than they ever were.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Haha, you wanna talk about FOTM? Releasing 2 "Expertise" systems at a time while at the same time adding respec NPCs in every city isn't gonna make it one big FOTM fest? I agree they need to add these things, but they need to do it all at once. Making 2 profs at a time is the dumbest move they could make. The forums are going to burn like Troy when BH and Jedi get all kinds of crazy new skills while everyone else sits by and rots. Just like it's always been even though they promised they were changing.
Nothing changes.
SOE is still running around with no clue what they are doing.
Originally posted by New_to_MMO Did they really need to balance 32 prof's. Dancer doesn't need to be balanced does it?? Image Designer balanced? Droid Engineer balance? Doctor? Am I wrong or is it just combat prof's that need balancing? I can't remember, but how many combat prof's were there? 12 or 13 or so?
ALL they had to do to simplify the balance issues of the old systems was:
Seperate Professions into Professions & SKILLS. CARBINEER WAS NOT A PROFESSION, it was a SKILL.
Skills- Unarmed, Fencing, Swordsmanship, Pike, Pistol, Carbines, Rifles, Scout & Medic. NO GENERAL BONUSES FOR ANY OF THESE.
Professions- BH, Commando, SL, Ranger, CM, Doc, Smuggler, TKM (special moves for Melee Skills), Dancer (bonuses to unarmed), Musician & all of the Crafting Prof's. Profession would give bonuses to balance the Professions, IE: BH would get GRA, but CH wouldn't get any since they get pets.
Then give enough Profession Points and Skill Points to Master ONE Profession, and 2.5 Skills. Medic & Scout Skills would NOT stack with Profession Skills.
Last, Pilot should NOT be faction specific, it should have been a choice between: Light Fighters, Medium Fighters, Heavy Foghters & MPS. Pilots that fly fighters don't jump into the seat of a Jumbo Jet and fly as well as a JJ Pilot. Ship specific Certs & additional special abilities could be granted by your Faction, like the current system.
Summary:Every player would have had-
Profession- 1
Squad Leader
Bounty Hunter
Ranger (Spy?)
Creature Handler
Commando
Smuggler
Combat Medic
Doctor
Dancer
Musician
ID
DE
Astisan
Arc
Ranged WS
Melee WS
AS
BE
Tailor
SW
Skills- 2.5
Unarmed
Fencing
Swordsman
Pikeman
Pistols
Carbines
Rifles
Medic (Doesn't stack with Prof abilities)
Scout (Doesn't stack with Prof abilities)
Pilot- 1
Light Fighters
Medium Ships
Heavy Ships (MP / Bombers)
MP Ships
Open to all-
Politician
Merchant
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Originally posted by New_to_MMO Did they really need to balance 32 prof's. Dancer doesn't need to be balanced does it?? Image Designer balanced? Droid Engineer balance? Doctor? Am I wrong or is it just combat prof's that need balancing? I can't remember, but how many combat prof's were there? 12 or 13 or so?
Actually yes there was more to it than just balancing the combat professions. ESPECIALLY doctors, and droid engineers. Doctors for their obvious buffs that were through the roof, but less obvious were the DE/CH/BE balance.
CH pets had to feel they were useful without having to go to a BE. BE's had to feel useful or why have the profession, and then DE's had to be able to make pets, that didn't overshadow what the CH's and BE's were doing.
I can't believe someone actually said that all the ranged professions were pretty much the same and all the melee professions were pretty much the same. Has it been that long since you've played the game? I think you're forgetting that polearms did more damage than Swords, but swords were faster and used less HAM for specials.
All of those elements had to be ballanced between professions: Weapon speed, weapon/special damage, HAM cost.
Sure you say all you had to do for carbineer was fix the bugs, the problem is the "bug" most carbineers were complaining about was the excessive HAM cost of thier specials. So to fix it you'd have to take that away. Well if you did that, EVERYONE would be a cabineer. High powered, very fast weapon that had little HAM cost and AoE knockdowns, no downside there.
Which brings me to my final point: The fact that people don't think about all these considerations when they talk about balancing and fixing bugs is what, I believe, got the NGE thrown on us to begin with.
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Shayde Originally posted by New_to_MMO Did they really need to balance 32 prof's. Dancer doesn't need to be balanced does it?? Image Designer balanced? Droid Engineer balance? Doctor? Am I wrong or is it just combat prof's that need balancing? I can't remember, but how many combat prof's were there? 12 or 13 or so?
QFE
That's why they cop out when they use that excuse. Who had to balance Politician? Droid Engineer? There were maybe 12 that would need "balance" and many would argue they were pretty close to begin with.
What was close ? I don't recall any profession alone that was viable in open PVP . It all was dependant on your template choice . How many Carbineer Docs did you see who would defeat a master fencer , doc , pistoleer / swords or tk stacked temp ? Very few that is for sure and all I can say is the fencer had no clue what he was doing .
Do you call this balance/even ? My pre cu fencer Temp was mfencer/4030doc/0040 pistoleer Unbuffed I had serious dizzy and kd defence on top of that some of the best cures/stims on the server I played on . 40%stun 80% armor a few high tick mind fires and health poisons . One day i was hanging at dant mining overt when 5 imps port in 3 ranged guys 2 Melee one being a tkm /doc with a few dots one was also a bh with a nice pistol using body shot . Well any way i took them all out with almost no problem . That is balance to you ?
This was a common outcome on bloodfin stacker docs with dots beat anyone ,who did not enjoy that skill set . Jedi were cake with my temp and 600+ dmg gaffy .Don't get me wrong i loved my pre-cu character , But anyone who says it was balanced or even is smoking something .
"on top of that some of the best cures/stims on the server I played on . 40%stun 80% armor a few high tick mind fires and health poisons ."
this is equipment, nothing to do with your character. you won cuz you had kiss arse equipment.
balancing can't take into accout what equipment you used. it should have just your template with a normal weapon, vs. those other guys with their normal weapons. your high tick fires and poisions don't contribute to imbalance.
**edit, and if you took out 5 of them, they really had no clue what they were doing**
Originally posted by Malickiebloo What was close ? I don't recall any profession alone that was viable in open PVP . It all was dependant on your template choice . How many Carbineer Docs did you see who would defeat a master fencer , doc , pistoleer / swords or tk stacked temp ? Very few that is for sure and all I can say is the fencer had no clue what he was doing . Do you call this balance/even ? My pre cu fencer Temp was mfencer/4030doc/0040 pistoleer Unbuffed I had serious dizzy and kd defence on top of that some of the best cures/stims on the server I played on . 40%stun 80% armor a few high tick mind fires and health poisons . One day i was hanging at dant mining overt when 5 imps port in 3 ranged guys 2 Melee one being a tkm /doc with a few dots one was also a bh with a nice pistol using body shot . Well any way i took them all out with almost no problem . That is balance to you ? This was a common outcome on bloodfin stacker docs with dots beat anyone ,who did not enjoy that skill set . Jedi were cake with my temp and 600+ dmg gaffy .Don't get me wrong i loved my pre-cu character , But anyone who says it was balanced or even is smoking something .
Quite frankly, because "balance" is unnecessary. Whining about every class being equal in PVP is what got us this mess in the first place. You bitching that the latest flavor-of-the-month is UBAR in PVP and can't be beat.. well then BECOME that template or quit bitching. That, and there's always another FOTM.
Did you hear entertainers/bio-engineers bitching THEY weren't UBAR in pvp? Tailors/artisans?
And to top that off.. you bitch about carbineer. One of the MANY classes that were broken due to bugs. Bitching Doc was too powerful? Cooldown time the stims or lower their effectiveness, DON'T THROW OUT 32 PROFESSIONS.
They were closer to "balance" than they care to admit pre-cu than they ever were.
WHo was bitching ? never made one complaint pre-cu , I just never thought there was balance .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by New_to_MMO Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Shayde Originally posted by New_to_MMO Did they really need to balance 32 prof's. Dancer doesn't need to be balanced does it?? Image Designer balanced? Droid Engineer balance? Doctor? Am I wrong or is it just combat prof's that need balancing? I can't remember, but how many combat prof's were there? 12 or 13 or so?
QFE
That's why they cop out when they use that excuse. Who had to balance Politician? Droid Engineer? There were maybe 12 that would need "balance" and many would argue they were pretty close to begin with.
What was close ? I don't recall any profession alone that was viable in open PVP . It all was dependant on your template choice . How many Carbineer Docs did you see who would defeat a master fencer , doc , pistoleer / swords or tk stacked temp ? Very few that is for sure and all I can say is the fencer had no clue what he was doing .
Do you call this balance/even ? My pre cu fencer Temp was mfencer/4030doc/0040 pistoleer Unbuffed I had serious dizzy and kd defence on top of that some of the best cures/stims on the server I played on . 40%stun 80% armor a few high tick mind fires and health poisons . One day i was hanging at dant mining overt when 5 imps port in 3 ranged guys 2 Melee one being a tkm /doc with a few dots one was also a bh with a nice pistol using body shot . Well any way i took them all out with almost no problem . That is balance to you ?
This was a common outcome on bloodfin stacker docs with dots beat anyone ,who did not enjoy that skill set . Jedi were cake with my temp and 600+ dmg gaffy .Don't get me wrong i loved my pre-cu character , But anyone who says it was balanced or even is smoking something .
"on top of that some of the best cures/stims on the server I played on . 40%stun 80% armor a few high tick mind fires and health poisons ."
this is equipment, nothing to do with your character. you won cuz you had kiss arse equipment.
balancing can't take into accout what equipment you used. it should have just your template with a normal weapon, vs. those other guys with their normal weapons. your high tick fires and poisions don't contribute to imbalance.
**edit, and if you took out 5 of them, they really had no clue what they were doing**
That is exactly my point there was a lot more to balance than simply a few professions.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Obraik Yeah, but they had 32 professions (or 992 if you count all the possible combinations) back then that they had to cater for. Now they only have to worry about 9 so more time can be devoted to the bug squashing. Pre-CU was very complex, tweaking one thing could horribly out balance another or completely break it.
So, creating loot gear that far surpasses what the normal player could make didn't "tweak" things out of balance? Was a crafter, saw that problem first hand, but they still haven't concerned themselves with that yet! In fact, of the 2 they list getting the first shot at refining is one that doesn't even fit the timeline, but oddly enough, they both were the professions that were the heart of the CU changes.
They never seem to look past the "popular" choices. It's truly sad, a bunch of supporting developers can't even see the true value of supporting roles in a game they work on.
The initial game plan wasn't that complicated. The fact they "catered" to a select view is not unknown. It was plastered everywhere! They threw it out of balance by going away from the original concepts and designs. So, the comparison of complexity between pre and post CU is a mute point because they never focused on that. They didn't even focus on content. 90% of all updates to NGE where nerfs, SOE/LA has always made it's policy in SWG to balance things out by lessening what they saw as an unbalanced match-up.
Sadly, it's like Microsoft saying they can create a hacker proof OS. There is always a way to get in, there will always be a way for someone to exploit a powerset and until they see that, they are going to continue to chase their tales.
Originally posted by Malickiebloo What was close ? I don't recall any profession alone that was viable in open PVP . It all was dependant on your template choice . How many Carbineer Docs did you see who would defeat a master fencer , doc , pistoleer / swords or tk stacked temp ? Very few that is for sure and all I can say is the fencer had no clue what he was doing .
Do you call this balance/even ? My pre cu fencer Temp was mfencer/4030doc/0040 pistoleer Unbuffed I had serious dizzy and kd defence on top of that some of the best cures/stims on the server I played on . 40%stun 80% armor a few high tick mind fires and health poisons . One day i was hanging at dant mining overt when 5 imps port in 3 ranged guys 2 Melee one being a tkm /doc with a few dots one was also a bh with a nice pistol using body shot . Well any way i took them all out with almost no problem . That is balance to you ?
This was a common outcome on bloodfin stacker docs with dots beat anyone ,who did not enjoy that skill set . Jedi were cake with my temp and 600+ dmg gaffy .Don't get me wrong i loved my pre-cu character , But anyone who says it was balanced or even is smoking something .
Sadly, reading your posts makes me wonder... Did you even bother to read your own post?
You stat 4 different times about extras, not part of your skills that enabled you to be stronger than average. Weapons, buffs, and armor and real time skill should ALWAYS be the deciding factor. Would you have faired as well with no armor, no buffs, no meds and noob lvl weapons? Could you have taken on one of the mentioned and even limped like that?
This is the problem in a nut shell. People only see themselves, they only see what they have, not what is going on the other side. Armor could be decaded, buff duration could be short, weapons might only look cool. Doesn't mean they are going to walk out of a fight. But thanks to guys like this, saying "IT'S NOT FAIR". It's not suppose to be fair. It's suppose to be a game.
You wouldn't sit to play chess with checker peices, or would you? It's not fair!! The queen can move in any direction, I know I lost mine, but his should be nerfed to "balance" it out.
I get tired of hearing it, from both sides. From the guy who set his game to macro run him through his skill base then cry cuz he was bored and didn't learn to truly master his skill. Then there was the guy that, like this one, that got bored and found no true respect in being better, without supporting those that actually helped you.
Originally posted by MutantBeingX Originally posted by Malickiebloo What was close ? I don't recall any profession alone that was viable in open PVP . It all was dependant on your template choice . How many Carbineer Docs did you see who would defeat a master fencer , doc , pistoleer / swords or tk stacked temp ? Very few that is for sure and all I can say is the fencer had no clue what he was doing .
Do you call this balance/even ? My pre cu fencer Temp was mfencer/4030doc/0040 pistoleer Unbuffed I had serious dizzy and kd defence on top of that some of the best cures/stims on the server I played on . 40%stun 80% armor a few high tick mind fires and health poisons . One day i was hanging at dant mining overt when 5 imps port in 3 ranged guys 2 Melee one being a tkm /doc with a few dots one was also a bh with a nice pistol using body shot . Well any way i took them all out with almost no problem . That is balance to you ?
This was a common outcome on bloodfin stacker docs with dots beat anyone ,who did not enjoy that skill set . Jedi were cake with my temp and 600+ dmg gaffy .Don't get me wrong i loved my pre-cu character , But anyone who says it was balanced or even is smoking something .
Sadly, reading your posts makes me wonder... Did you even bother to read your own post?
You stat 4 different times about extras, not part of your skills that enabled you to be stronger than average. Weapons, buffs, and armor and real time skill should ALWAYS be the deciding factor. Would you have faired as well with no armor, no buffs, no meds and noob lvl weapons? Could you have taken on one of the mentioned and even limped like that?
This is the problem in a nut shell. People only see themselves, they only see what they have, not what is going on the other side. Armor could be decaded, buff duration could be short, weapons might only look cool. Doesn't mean they are going to walk out of a fight. But thanks to guys like this, saying "IT'S NOT FAIR". It's not suppose to be fair. It's suppose to be a game.
You wouldn't sit to play chess with checker peices, or would you? It's not fair!! The queen can move in any direction, I know I lost mine, but his should be nerfed to "balance" it out.
I get tired of hearing it, from both sides. From the guy who set his game to macro run him through his skill base then cry cuz he was bored and didn't learn to truly master his skill. Then there was the guy that, like this one, that got bored and found no true respect in being better, without supporting those that actually helped you.
What do you mean by not supporting those who helped me ? Where did i ever say i got bored as well ? The other guys had dots and nice stuff , Yes I probably had been around longer than those i defeated . But with that being said my point was soley about balance . To be honest there were a few instances i managed to beat a few people , who were fully buffed while I had just walked out of the cloner . Not more than 1 at a time though .
I loved my pre-cu character and his equipment , I was never a player who was egotistcal or rude . Whch I did take alot of flak for , (being called carebear and the like ) I also went out of my way to help new players get on their feet . So before you act like you know me , get a clue ...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
SWG Tempest: Cardo Dycen RIP
Eve: Cardoh Dycen
I support random drug testing for all SOE employees
you want devs who talk to the players, go see how many posts KFR and Kanoth have over on the Roma Victor forums.
THAT'S communication.
and they actually listen to the beta testers that have good ideas.
actually 9 base classes and 3 each sub expertise systems. unless you are locked into one sub set then you are talking almsot the same thing as 32 different professions. Only thing missing is the ability to switch your base class unless you spend money. I fail to see win here Obraik.
Hmmmm... something intresting... Remeber all the rumors about the new strategy guide coming out where it had new professions in it. I'm wondering if this is what it was referring to. The book is suppose to be out at the end of this month.
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
That statement is priceless!
Wow nice, I missed that the first time. That's funny.
The Millenium Lee
Maybe he was afraid of talking to a crowd before, and now that the playerbase has been minimized, he's much better now.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
No doubt. They do a great job of communicating with their players but without straying from their basic parameters for the game. God I hope they can pull that game off....
In fact, I will go so far as to say that the industry NEEDS Roma Victor to be successfull. It will send a clear message that you dont have to appeal to the lowest common denominator to have a hit.
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
That's why they cop out when they use that excuse. Who had to balance Politician? Droid Engineer? There were maybe 12 that would need "balance" and many would argue they were pretty close to begin with.
Ok, sure, take out the non-combat professions and you are still left with a large number of professions, and then you can combine them all. If they give a profession a revamp then they would have needed to think "what happens if it's then combined with this other profession?" Yes, they were behind from the start which made things much worse
That's why they cop out when they use that excuse. Who had to balance Politician? Droid Engineer? There were maybe 12 that would need "balance" and many would argue they were pretty close to begin with.
Ok, sure, take out the non-combat professions and you are still left with a large number of professions, and then you can combine them all. If they give a profession a revamp then they would have needed to think "what happens if it's then combined with this other profession?" Yes, they were behind from the start which made things much worse
Yes, but you're pre-supposing that there is much of a difference between classes. Really, think back. All the ranged/melee were the same, except for what pool they hit. TKA, BH, commando and Smuggler weren't that far off from the mains... all had their own niche really.
So mixing them wasn't a problem. IF, and here's a BIG if...
THEY ACTUALLY HAD THE BUGS WORKED OUT.
Why did Melee become Uber? They never fixed the defense stacking. The bugs of Carbineer were just that, bugs. If they actually fixed the bugs, this would have NEVER been an issue. Broken specials in Pistols? Bug.
They never needed to balance. They needed to fix bugs.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
LOL
You have to love the devs
That's why they cop out when they use that excuse. Who had to balance Politician? Droid Engineer? There were maybe 12 that would need "balance" and many would argue they were pretty close to begin with.
What was close ? I don't recall any profession alone that was viable in open PVP . It all was dependant on your template choice . How many Carbineer Docs did you see who would defeat a master fencer , doc , pistoleer / swords or tk stacked temp ? Very few that is for sure and all I can say is the fencer had no clue what he was doing .
Do you call this balance/even ? My pre cu fencer Temp was mfencer/4030doc/0040 pistoleer Unbuffed I had serious dizzy and kd defence on top of that some of the best cures/stims on the server I played on . 40%stun 80% armor a few high tick mind fires and health poisons . One day i was hanging at dant mining overt when 5 imps port in 3 ranged guys 2 Melee one being a tkm /doc with a few dots one was also a bh with a nice pistol using body shot . Well any way i took them all out with almost no problem . That is balance to you ?
This was a common outcome on bloodfin stacker docs with dots beat anyone ,who did not enjoy that skill set . Jedi were cake with my temp and 600+ dmg gaffy .Don't get me wrong i loved my pre-cu character , But anyone who says it was balanced or even is smoking something .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So?? Regarding the targeting, does this mean click, click, click fighting is gone and combat can be hotkeyed again??
I'm missing the game and one main reason was the combat changes (that amongst many, too many) If combat has its targeting and lock returned i may waver and return. Fighting SOE from the outside doesn't work, it may cost a tenner a month, but to play em at their own game i think you have to be playing.
Feel free to talk me out of it, just looking at my credit card makes me feel dirty as it is.
[edit] What am i thinking??? Rollback or nothing!!! Damn, really do miss playing the old game though.
Quite frankly, because "balance" is unnecessary. Whining about every class being equal in PVP is what got us this mess in the first place. You bitching that the latest flavor-of-the-month is UBAR in PVP and can't be beat.. well then BECOME that template or quit bitching. That, and there's always another FOTM.
Did you hear entertainers/bio-engineers bitching THEY weren't UBAR in pvp? Tailors/artisans?
And to top that off.. you bitch about carbineer. One of the MANY classes that were broken due to bugs. Bitching Doc was too powerful? Cooldown time the stims or lower their effectiveness, DON'T THROW OUT 32 PROFESSIONS.
They were closer to "balance" than they care to admit pre-cu than they ever were.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Haha, you wanna talk about FOTM? Releasing 2 "Expertise" systems at a time while at the same time adding respec NPCs in every city isn't gonna make it one big FOTM fest? I agree they need to add these things, but they need to do it all at once. Making 2 profs at a time is the dumbest move they could make. The forums are going to burn like Troy when BH and Jedi get all kinds of crazy new skills while everyone else sits by and rots. Just like it's always been even though they promised they were changing.
Nothing changes.
SOE is still running around with no clue what they are doing.
The Millenium Lee
ALL they had to do to simplify the balance issues of the old systems was:
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
Actually yes there was more to it than just balancing the combat professions. ESPECIALLY doctors, and droid engineers. Doctors for their obvious buffs that were through the roof, but less obvious were the DE/CH/BE balance.
CH pets had to feel they were useful without having to go to a BE. BE's had to feel useful or why have the profession, and then DE's had to be able to make pets, that didn't overshadow what the CH's and BE's were doing.
I can't believe someone actually said that all the ranged professions were pretty much the same and all the melee professions were pretty much the same. Has it been that long since you've played the game? I think you're forgetting that polearms did more damage than Swords, but swords were faster and used less HAM for specials.
All of those elements had to be ballanced between professions: Weapon speed, weapon/special damage, HAM cost.
Sure you say all you had to do for carbineer was fix the bugs, the problem is the "bug" most carbineers were complaining about was the excessive HAM cost of thier specials. So to fix it you'd have to take that away. Well if you did that, EVERYONE would be a cabineer. High powered, very fast weapon that had little HAM cost and AoE knockdowns, no downside there.
Which brings me to my final point: The fact that people don't think about all these considerations when they talk about balancing and fixing bugs is what, I believe, got the NGE thrown on us to begin with.
That's why they cop out when they use that excuse. Who had to balance Politician? Droid Engineer? There were maybe 12 that would need "balance" and many would argue they were pretty close to begin with.
What was close ? I don't recall any profession alone that was viable in open PVP . It all was dependant on your template choice . How many Carbineer Docs did you see who would defeat a master fencer , doc , pistoleer / swords or tk stacked temp ? Very few that is for sure and all I can say is the fencer had no clue what he was doing .
Do you call this balance/even ? My pre cu fencer Temp was mfencer/4030doc/0040 pistoleer Unbuffed I had serious dizzy and kd defence on top of that some of the best cures/stims on the server I played on . 40%stun 80% armor a few high tick mind fires and health poisons . One day i was hanging at dant mining overt when 5 imps port in 3 ranged guys 2 Melee one being a tkm /doc with a few dots one was also a bh with a nice pistol using body shot . Well any way i took them all out with almost no problem . That is balance to you ?
This was a common outcome on bloodfin stacker docs with dots beat anyone ,who did not enjoy that skill set . Jedi were cake with my temp and 600+ dmg gaffy .Don't get me wrong i loved my pre-cu character , But anyone who says it was balanced or even is smoking something .
"on top of that some of the best cures/stims on the server I played on . 40%stun 80% armor a few high tick mind fires and health poisons ."
this is equipment, nothing to do with your character. you won cuz you had kiss arse equipment.
balancing can't take into accout what equipment you used. it should have just your template with a normal weapon, vs. those other guys with their normal weapons. your high tick fires and poisions don't contribute to imbalance.
**edit, and if you took out 5 of them, they really had no clue what they were doing**
Quite frankly, because "balance" is unnecessary. Whining about every class being equal in PVP is what got us this mess in the first place. You bitching that the latest flavor-of-the-month is UBAR in PVP and can't be beat.. well then BECOME that template or quit bitching. That, and there's always another FOTM.
Did you hear entertainers/bio-engineers bitching THEY weren't UBAR in pvp? Tailors/artisans?
And to top that off.. you bitch about carbineer. One of the MANY classes that were broken due to bugs. Bitching Doc was too powerful? Cooldown time the stims or lower their effectiveness, DON'T THROW OUT 32 PROFESSIONS.
They were closer to "balance" than they care to admit pre-cu than they ever were.
WHo was bitching ? never made one complaint pre-cu , I just never thought there was balance .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That's why they cop out when they use that excuse. Who had to balance Politician? Droid Engineer? There were maybe 12 that would need "balance" and many would argue they were pretty close to begin with.
What was close ? I don't recall any profession alone that was viable in open PVP . It all was dependant on your template choice . How many Carbineer Docs did you see who would defeat a master fencer , doc , pistoleer / swords or tk stacked temp ? Very few that is for sure and all I can say is the fencer had no clue what he was doing .
Do you call this balance/even ? My pre cu fencer Temp was mfencer/4030doc/0040 pistoleer Unbuffed I had serious dizzy and kd defence on top of that some of the best cures/stims on the server I played on . 40%stun 80% armor a few high tick mind fires and health poisons . One day i was hanging at dant mining overt when 5 imps port in 3 ranged guys 2 Melee one being a tkm /doc with a few dots one was also a bh with a nice pistol using body shot . Well any way i took them all out with almost no problem . That is balance to you ?
This was a common outcome on bloodfin stacker docs with dots beat anyone ,who did not enjoy that skill set . Jedi were cake with my temp and 600+ dmg gaffy .Don't get me wrong i loved my pre-cu character , But anyone who says it was balanced or even is smoking something .
"on top of that some of the best cures/stims on the server I played on . 40%stun 80% armor a few high tick mind fires and health poisons ."
this is equipment, nothing to do with your character. you won cuz you had kiss arse equipment.
balancing can't take into accout what equipment you used. it should have just your template with a normal weapon, vs. those other guys with their normal weapons. your high tick fires and poisions don't contribute to imbalance.
**edit, and if you took out 5 of them, they really had no clue what they were doing**
That is exactly my point there was a lot more to balance than simply a few professions.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So, creating loot gear that far surpasses what the normal player could make didn't "tweak" things out of balance? Was a crafter, saw that problem first hand, but they still haven't concerned themselves with that yet! In fact, of the 2 they list getting the first shot at refining is one that doesn't even fit the timeline, but oddly enough, they both were the professions that were the heart of the CU changes.
They never seem to look past the "popular" choices. It's truly sad, a bunch of supporting developers can't even see the true value of supporting roles in a game they work on.
The initial game plan wasn't that complicated. The fact they "catered" to a select view is not unknown. It was plastered everywhere! They threw it out of balance by going away from the original concepts and designs. So, the comparison of complexity between pre and post CU is a mute point because they never focused on that. They didn't even focus on content. 90% of all updates to NGE where nerfs, SOE/LA has always made it's policy in SWG to balance things out by lessening what they saw as an unbalanced match-up.
Sadly, it's like Microsoft saying they can create a hacker proof OS. There is always a way to get in, there will always be a way for someone to exploit a powerset and until they see that, they are going to continue to chase their tales.
Sadly, reading your posts makes me wonder... Did you even bother to read your own post?
You stat 4 different times about extras, not part of your skills that enabled you to be stronger than average. Weapons, buffs, and armor and real time skill should ALWAYS be the deciding factor. Would you have faired as well with no armor, no buffs, no meds and noob lvl weapons? Could you have taken on one of the mentioned and even limped like that?
This is the problem in a nut shell. People only see themselves, they only see what they have, not what is going on the other side. Armor could be decaded, buff duration could be short, weapons might only look cool. Doesn't mean they are going to walk out of a fight. But thanks to guys like this, saying "IT'S NOT FAIR". It's not suppose to be fair. It's suppose to be a game.
You wouldn't sit to play chess with checker peices, or would you? It's not fair!! The queen can move in any direction, I know I lost mine, but his should be nerfed to "balance" it out.
I get tired of hearing it, from both sides. From the guy who set his game to macro run him through his skill base then cry cuz he was bored and didn't learn to truly master his skill. Then there was the guy that, like this one, that got bored and found no true respect in being better, without supporting those that actually helped you.
Sadly, reading your posts makes me wonder... Did you even bother to read your own post?
You stat 4 different times about extras, not part of your skills that enabled you to be stronger than average. Weapons, buffs, and armor and real time skill should ALWAYS be the deciding factor. Would you have faired as well with no armor, no buffs, no meds and noob lvl weapons? Could you have taken on one of the mentioned and even limped like that?
This is the problem in a nut shell. People only see themselves, they only see what they have, not what is going on the other side. Armor could be decaded, buff duration could be short, weapons might only look cool. Doesn't mean they are going to walk out of a fight. But thanks to guys like this, saying "IT'S NOT FAIR". It's not suppose to be fair. It's suppose to be a game.
You wouldn't sit to play chess with checker peices, or would you? It's not fair!! The queen can move in any direction, I know I lost mine, but his should be nerfed to "balance" it out.
I get tired of hearing it, from both sides. From the guy who set his game to macro run him through his skill base then cry cuz he was bored and didn't learn to truly master his skill. Then there was the guy that, like this one, that got bored and found no true respect in being better, without supporting those that actually helped you.
What do you mean by not supporting those who helped me ? Where did i ever say i got bored as well ? The other guys had dots and nice stuff , Yes I probably had been around longer than those i defeated . But with that being said my point was soley about balance . To be honest there were a few instances i managed to beat a few people , who were fully buffed while I had just walked out of the cloner . Not more than 1 at a time though .
I loved my pre-cu character and his equipment , I was never a player who was egotistcal or rude . Whch I did take alot of flak for , (being called carebear and the like ) I also went out of my way to help new players get on their feet . So before you act like you know me , get a clue ...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson