Nope.... Convenience as in warp travel?Well in FFXI you NEEDED a WHM or a very high level 75 with a WHM sub to get a teleport warp.So the convenience of warping around still involved interaction.Many players made a ton of in game currency offering a taxi service and some were just friendly "free".
A BLM could warp you back to your home point so again convenience but interaction.
AH ..i used to buy a lot of stuff and had MANY& times a player send me a PM offering to sell me at better prices if i bought bulk.At the same time i had players ask me where i was getting so many of a certain drop so again interaction. Guess what else a AH does,it opens up information to all players that might of otherwise not know.They see an item,maybe a high priced item and automatically think,hmmm where does that come from.
FFXI as well as other games actually created websites to form crafting bonds,paying players to make mats for them or to offer making the mats.
As well sometimes to get that "convenience" takes a group of players to help each other. The problem is too many of these games are solo oriented,FAKE mmo's nothing is centered around helping each other. In FFXI you could also aid a player outside the group,you could HELP each other and it happens a LOT.MANY or most games don't allow outside help which of course is non interactive ,non friendly just crap.
So perhaps people have been playing too many crappy games and have a built in stigma about problems that are more a problem developer than the problem itself.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Nope.... Convenience as in warp travel?Well in FFXI you NEEDED a WHM or a very high level 75 with a WHM sub to get a teleport warp.So the convenience of warping around still involved interaction.Many players made a ton of in game currency offering a taxi service and some were just friendly "free".
A BLM could warp you back to your home point so again convenience but interaction.
I think we have different definitions of convenience Convenience that is restricted to certain players that you would have to actually search out and talk to utilize obviously wouldn't apply. I'm talking about automatic group finder, ability to teleport to a large number of map locations at will for all, shops available from a menu anywhere. That is true convenience.
i have posted this before in other threads.. (cant recall where) but an interesting idea to me would be to sell your wares to an NPC vendor, that would offer a fair price for the item based on internal algorithm of supply and demand. Said items then would be available for repurchase from the vendor (again, price adjusted for supply/demand). If after some set number of hours/days the item is not purchased it is removed from the game.
A couple options to throw in could be that the vendor might have a cap of said item that they would purchase per day. This would again be automatically adjusted based on supply/demand.. If you sold an item to the vendor in one city does it become automatically available for purchase from all vendors in any city, or is each Vendor Autonomous? Would items & gold be player tradeable? Layaway? How about a pawn-broker. you give item to vendor on pawn, they keep it safe, you get some cash, if after some said time frame you don't repay the pawn it goes on the sales floor.
A thought on Gold and Items... if they were not tradeable then the devs could keep control of the economy and make sure it didn't spiral out of whack (1k gold for each Blood of the Mountain or 1million for Dirge's Kickin' Chimaerok Chops anyone?). At the same time bot farmers would be S.O.L. because , well you couldn't trade to them in the first place. No Spamming.. no farm bots.. you don't have to wait around trying to sell your stuff.. there are not 100 player NPC stores everywhere selling the same thing. wouldn't have to search every NPC player store looking for the items you need. No one would be able to rip you off. Lot to be said for that...
There are so many better ways of implementing a good robust economy, i dont know why games dont use a little more creativity. To answer the OP, Personally no.. i don't want to stand in EC tunnel any more and get in price war over chat spam, just for the seller to put the wrong item in the trade window and steal my money.. or drop it on the ground and hope someone wasn't standing there within distance click spamming the ground in front of you trying to steal it.
Ok you have 2 identical games - except that one that has an AH (huge convinience) - one that doesn't.
Now the game with AH, adds dungeon finder, and fast travel (teleporters) - the other game still hasn't added anything.
So you are telling me that Game one that has AH, fast travel and a dungeon finder has "less game" than game that doesn't have any, because as you said
"The more convenience you add the less game you get."
You are not getting any less game in this case - as both games are identical except one has convenience features and the other doesn't.
More features, more options - and support for more playstyles.
breaking this down a piece at a time ..
1) AH. Not necessarily a bad thing, though i don't like the implementation of many of the options available.. i'm neutral here.. read my above post
2) Dungeon finder. I am opposed to this because it does not promote a fellowship if you will. You press a button, you get auto-sorted and dropped into a group. ok that satisfies one criteria.. your at least in a group now.. but how many times have you ever had a conversation or talked about strategy in a dungeon finder group? Not to say it cant happen.. but 99.9% of the time, you get dropped into a group that is already somewhere along the progression, or the rest of the group is running through just slaughtering everything they come by, and you have to catch up. There is never any time for talk. its about getting through the map as fast as possible because they have an hour before bedtime and they are trying to run it as many time as possible before bed.
3) Fast Travel. Again.. there needs to be some sort fast travel.. i'm neutral here as well. On one hand instant travel makes the world small, takes the mystique and danger out of the adventure, and you miss huge sections of the game world the devs spent hundreds of hours creating. On the other hand, it sucks having to traverse from one end of the map to the other without them. Some of these game worlds can literally take you hours just to go from one side to the next without instant travel. I was a Druid in EQ Kunark, so i will admit, i made a handsome living porting people back and forth. But i also made a lot of friends this way, and was invited on several adventures because of my porting abilities as well.
So technically, your game world is smaller with fast travel, your player base is shallow because there is no socializing because of dungeon finders, but a properly implemented AH system can benefit the game. so yea in a way, you are getting less game for those conveniences.
ESO has an interesting spin on the AH but I hate that I have to join a guild just to sell my stuff.
Holy hell, you have to what? That's horrifying!
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
ESO has an interesting spin on the AH but I hate that I have to join a guild just to sell my stuff.
Holy hell, you have to what? That's horrifying!
Yeah it is, one of the reasons I don't play it.
To be fair they permit you to join up to 5 guilds and with like a 500 person cap (I think) you can usually add a few "trade guilds" to access a broader market.
While I'm not a fan of a global auction house I do like more regional ones like in EVE as they create trading and transportation opportunities.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
i prefer the DAoC approach, have your own vendor on your housing spot. no need to stand around with your char, and/but you have a fixed location for your vendor.
those player shops only end in chaos and penis spam
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
The reasons why player shops don't really work well is the genre is more about story than MMORPG. Meaning they are not about the life and time od your character and his story. It's based around the story given to you by the developer where you are largely just a clone of the next hero.
Why does this effect having good player shops? The world works around these developer stories vs. having a functional world. Games like SWG player shops can work because the game is based around your player story and the world reflects that.
People congregated in the zone the tunnels were in because if you wanted to crow about your victories or make it known that so and so was scum that was where you went. Then there would be the /ooc and /shout fights. God I miss those days and not trying to be an elitist but people took pride in what they typed and it wasn't anything like what Barrens chat devolved into.
Comments
Convenience as in warp travel?Well in FFXI you NEEDED a WHM or a very high level 75 with a WHM sub to get a teleport warp.So the convenience of warping around still involved interaction.Many players made a ton of in game currency offering a taxi service and some were just friendly "free".
A BLM could warp you back to your home point so again convenience but interaction.
AH ..i used to buy a lot of stuff and had MANY& times a player send me a PM offering to sell me at better prices if i bought bulk.At the same time i had players ask me where i was getting so many of a certain drop so again interaction.
Guess what else a AH does,it opens up information to all players that might of otherwise not know.They see an item,maybe a high priced item and automatically think,hmmm where does that come from.
FFXI as well as other games actually created websites to form crafting bonds,paying players to make mats for them or to offer making the mats.
As well sometimes to get that "convenience" takes a group of players to help each other.
The problem is too many of these games are solo oriented,FAKE mmo's nothing is centered around helping each other.
In FFXI you could also aid a player outside the group,you could HELP each other and it happens a LOT.MANY or most games don't allow outside help which of course is non interactive ,non friendly just crap.
So perhaps people have been playing too many crappy games and have a built in stigma about problems that are more a problem developer than the problem itself.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Convenience that is restricted to certain players that you would have to actually search out and talk to utilize obviously wouldn't apply. I'm talking about automatic group finder, ability to teleport to a large number of map locations at will for all, shops available from a menu anywhere. That is true convenience.
A couple options to throw in could be that the vendor might have a cap of said item that they would purchase per day. This would again be automatically adjusted based on supply/demand.. If you sold an item to the vendor in one city does it become automatically available for purchase from all vendors in any city, or is each Vendor Autonomous? Would items & gold be player tradeable? Layaway? How about a pawn-broker. you give item to vendor on pawn, they keep it safe, you get some cash, if after some said time frame you don't repay the pawn it goes on the sales floor.
A thought on Gold and Items... if they were not tradeable then the devs could keep control of the economy and make sure it didn't spiral out of whack (1k gold for each Blood of the Mountain or 1million for Dirge's Kickin' Chimaerok Chops anyone?). At the same time bot farmers would be S.O.L. because , well you couldn't trade to them in the first place. No Spamming.. no farm bots.. you don't have to wait around trying to sell your stuff.. there are not 100 player NPC stores everywhere selling the same thing. wouldn't have to search every NPC player store looking for the items you need. No one would be able to rip you off. Lot to be said for that...
There are so many better ways of implementing a good robust economy, i dont know why games dont use a little more creativity. To answer the OP, Personally no.. i don't want to stand in EC tunnel any more and get in price war over chat spam, just for the seller to put the wrong item in the trade window and steal my money.. or drop it on the ground and hope someone wasn't standing there within distance click spamming the ground in front of you trying to steal it.
1) AH. Not necessarily a bad thing, though i don't like the implementation of many of the options available.. i'm neutral here.. read my above post
2) Dungeon finder. I am opposed to this because it does not promote a fellowship if you will. You press a button, you get auto-sorted and dropped into a group. ok that satisfies one criteria.. your at least in a group now.. but how many times have you ever had a conversation or talked about strategy in a dungeon finder group? Not to say it cant happen.. but 99.9% of the time, you get dropped into a group that is already somewhere along the progression, or the rest of the group is running through just slaughtering everything they come by, and you have to catch up. There is never any time for talk. its about getting through the map as fast as possible because they have an hour before bedtime and they are trying to run it as many time as possible before bed.
3) Fast Travel. Again.. there needs to be some sort fast travel.. i'm neutral here as well. On one hand instant travel makes the world small, takes the mystique and danger out of the adventure, and you miss huge sections of the game world the devs spent hundreds of hours creating. On the other hand, it sucks having to traverse from one end of the map to the other without them. Some of these game worlds can literally take you hours just to go from one side to the next without instant travel. I was a Druid in EQ Kunark, so i will admit, i made a handsome living porting people back and forth. But i also made a lot of friends this way, and was invited on several adventures because of my porting abilities as well.
So technically, your game world is smaller with fast travel, your player base is shallow because there is no socializing because of dungeon finders, but a properly implemented AH system can benefit the game. so yea in a way, you are getting less game for those conveniences.
That totally restricts solo play. That is pretty game design, I agree.
Which in my book is the real game play MMORPGs have to offer, so it is a negative in my book.
Not interested in games which support any other play style but mine.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
To be fair they permit you to join up to 5 guilds and with like a 500 person cap (I think) you can usually add a few "trade guilds" to access a broader market.
While I'm not a fan of a global auction house I do like more regional ones like in EVE as they create trading and transportation opportunities.
Never was a fan of direct face to face trading.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You can set up vendors in your house so you could go off and do other things and they'll be there when you logged off for players to visit.
no need to stand around with your char, and/but you have a fixed location for your vendor.
those player shops only end in chaos and penis spam
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Why does this effect having good player shops? The world works around these developer stories vs. having a functional world. Games like SWG player shops can work because the game is based around your player story and the world reflects that.