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"Guild only" raids in MMORPGs
Question2
Member UncommonPosts: 43
I'm hoping to get some opinions on this.
Raids are typically end game pve content in MMORPGs (think WOW or whatever). Theres often a lot of drama over raids, too many people who want to go with not enough slots, someone making a mistake that gets the party wiped, etc.
What I want to ask is this : Let's say that a guild that you are on good terms with wants to do a certain raid. They don't have enough members to fill the spots, so there is space for you to join (assume you meet all requirements like gear or whatever). You ask your friends in the guild (who are in the party) whether you can join, but a guild officer or someone in a position of authority says no, because they want to keep it "guild only". They then go on to do the raid without filling the empty spot (so if it's a 10 man raid in WOW, they do it with 9 people instead).
The game in question is not WOW, that was just an example. There is no bonus to having a raid party comprised soley of players from one guild, nor is there any kind of penalty for filling the last spot with someone from another guild. They are not recording some kind of video or anything to show they can do it with less people, or because they want only people from their guild in the video. Someone simply didn't want any non-guild members in the raid, and they would rather do the raid without filling all spots rather than get someone else in. Other randoms tried to join, but were also told the raid was guild only.
I don't know how normal this is in your experience, but this feels pretty weird to me. It's one thing entirely if the party is full...but when the party has space, but won't fill the remaining spots with their friends outside of the guild (which is what people usually do)? That seems like a pretty rude thing to do IMHO. I said as much to someone from that guild, and he disagreed and thought it was pretty normal in general.
Thoughts?
Raids are typically end game pve content in MMORPGs (think WOW or whatever). Theres often a lot of drama over raids, too many people who want to go with not enough slots, someone making a mistake that gets the party wiped, etc.
What I want to ask is this : Let's say that a guild that you are on good terms with wants to do a certain raid. They don't have enough members to fill the spots, so there is space for you to join (assume you meet all requirements like gear or whatever). You ask your friends in the guild (who are in the party) whether you can join, but a guild officer or someone in a position of authority says no, because they want to keep it "guild only". They then go on to do the raid without filling the empty spot (so if it's a 10 man raid in WOW, they do it with 9 people instead).
The game in question is not WOW, that was just an example. There is no bonus to having a raid party comprised soley of players from one guild, nor is there any kind of penalty for filling the last spot with someone from another guild. They are not recording some kind of video or anything to show they can do it with less people, or because they want only people from their guild in the video. Someone simply didn't want any non-guild members in the raid, and they would rather do the raid without filling all spots rather than get someone else in. Other randoms tried to join, but were also told the raid was guild only.
I don't know how normal this is in your experience, but this feels pretty weird to me. It's one thing entirely if the party is full...but when the party has space, but won't fill the remaining spots with their friends outside of the guild (which is what people usually do)? That seems like a pretty rude thing to do IMHO. I said as much to someone from that guild, and he disagreed and thought it was pretty normal in general.
Thoughts?
Comments
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Wanting to talk about "guild only" stuff I don't understand. What sort of things are they talking about that you can't invite an outsider? Most guilds I've been in just have normal, fun, casual conversation and during organized activities like raids or PvP events, you have specific leaders who are organizing and giving orders, and generally other people keep quiet unless there's something important they need to say about the fight. So none of these things would be something an outsider can't hear.
Protecting their strategy is pretty dumb, IMO.
All in all, the more the merrier IMO. As long as someone is a chill person and willing to learn, I have no problem inviting them into whatever we're doing. I'd say OP that you dodged a bullet. That guild leader clearly has some issues and you'd probably run into them sooner or later if you played with them.
But, that's another conversation, I suppose.
This probably is the biggest reason, for many guilds. If you invite an outsider to a raid, you are obligated to consider them as a potential loot candidate, unless of course you've discussed it ahead of time and they just want the experience and care not for the loot(or unless you are just a scumbag and screw them over).
But, if your group can clear the encounter with less people than is required, then there's no real reason to invite outsiders to start with.
I recall seeing many guilds filling spots like those with applicants, to let them get a feel for the guild and vice versa, in the past, however.
P.S. Any guild with the slightest quality in leadership shouldn't be using a point system -- it's the worst. Points system guilds are basically nothing but a bunch of loot-whoring mercenaries.
Your other reason is because guilds use a point system to distribute loot. So what? Why should that matter to you? For one, why do you care what another guild does to distribute loot in their guild? Why should you hate on raiding for what some guild does with their loot? And another, not every guild even uses a point system. You don't even need to be in a guild to raid even lol. So many successful pug groups are formed day in/day out every day with loot set to personal loot.
I'd welcome you to explain your reasons for hating on raiding so shortsightedly.
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then there is also the point of them wanting to build a strong raid, then it is counter productive to let pug´s in, who may join for one raid, then the next day or week go with the next guild, rarely recruiting through raids have been a good way.
anyway guilds Ive been in have usually had the same rule, guild only members for "main char" raiding. And have seemed the general thing - but atleast in EQ2 there have always been people doing PuRs, especially after they made leveling fast and all about the instance grinding
Once I was in a guild where the leaders decided who received the loot and it wasn't bad. They usually made decisions based on who was lacking what and their value to the raid group.
This was in the 40 man raid days and I came in 3rd or 4th on the healing list regularly, so my upgrades came accordingly and I was never pissed by it.
If no one needed it random rolls decided.
Both systems were fine with me but neither would accommodate the OPs scenario. (which rarely happened as we usually had people on standby to join the raid. I played back up for a month before earning a slot on the first tier team.)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I was in a guild striving to be server 1st to kill Ragnaros before anyone had posted how to beat him.
Our strategies were highly secret and would have never been shared.
We came in 3rd.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Had not run into that prior to WOW and found I did not want to continue. Just didn't mesh with why I play these games.
End of my raiding career.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There is perhaps an exception for games that don't have a clearly marked endgame, but have a lot of real content that could arguably be considered endgame or arguably not.
The game I was referring to has a system where everyone gets their own loot. I was friends with most of the people in the other guild, but (apparently) one or two people insisted that I couldnt join their raids even though they had space because they wanted it to be "guild only". Because of that, I couldnt play with my friends who were in that guild, they took longer to clear the raids (as they were missing one person) and everyone was worse off than if we had simpy gone with a full party.
What especially pissed me off about it was that the main culprit who was insisting that I couldnt come, was the same guy who I had invited to raids many times when HIS guild was inactive...but the moment his guild members came back to play, he objected to me joining their raids even though most of the people in the party either wanted me to come or had no objections to it.
And his defence was simply "guild only" and he acted like I was asking for a HUGE favor or something.
If they had no space, OK i get it, but they had space and intentionally did the raids with a non-full party. I cannot see any advantage to this at all.