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Things are not good :(
delete5230
Member EpicPosts: 7,081
I regard this site as an accurate representation of the populations feeling of mmo players. Sure it's .01 of the overall population, but the best source none the less. No where else can data be gathered but here to be analyzed. Believe me or not please prove me wrong, however if you do, I kindly ask for a good detailed source and a breakdown of how someone else came to their conclusion.
Recently a poll was conducted on how our mmo enthusiast view the entire state of this industry...... The results were not good !
Now before I go on, I have to say something VERY IMPORTANT. The situation is much worst than the facts below. Most enthusiast are so disgusted they move on from sites like this, never to think of an mmo again. They simply don't stick around to argue, it's not important to them.
31 to 5 say something is drastically wrong. Along with the poll, enthusiast gave a written statement as to why in their beliefs. Without going into deep detail the answerers were for the most part the same.
This is how I break it down in a general way:
" Developers are not giving the player base what they want. But what they perceive as people want, AS LONG AS ITS SHORT TIRM, SMALL, AND COST EFFECTIVE FOR THEMSELVES "
Everything above are facts. Now I would like to give my opinion:
Video games and movies both have something unique and deeper than any other type of entertainment.
" Features catch the eye of intrigue " If advertised well this could draw massive groups into their product, key word " intrigue ". This word can be tricky because often it's a temporary feeling. Marketing knows this, ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS CATCH THE LARGE POPULATION FOR SHORT TERM. This is the goal !
Again this is my opinion from many years of experience:
" They don't care if you stay " " The big money is up front "
I say to this, an mmo can't be an mmo with this way of development, hence we don't have mmo's anymore !
Recently a poll was conducted on how our mmo enthusiast view the entire state of this industry...... The results were not good !
Now before I go on, I have to say something VERY IMPORTANT. The situation is much worst than the facts below. Most enthusiast are so disgusted they move on from sites like this, never to think of an mmo again. They simply don't stick around to argue, it's not important to them.
31 to 5 say something is drastically wrong. Along with the poll, enthusiast gave a written statement as to why in their beliefs. Without going into deep detail the answerers were for the most part the same.
This is how I break it down in a general way:
" Developers are not giving the player base what they want. But what they perceive as people want, AS LONG AS ITS SHORT TIRM, SMALL, AND COST EFFECTIVE FOR THEMSELVES "
Everything above are facts. Now I would like to give my opinion:
Video games and movies both have something unique and deeper than any other type of entertainment.
" Features catch the eye of intrigue " If advertised well this could draw massive groups into their product, key word " intrigue ". This word can be tricky because often it's a temporary feeling. Marketing knows this, ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS CATCH THE LARGE POPULATION FOR SHORT TERM. This is the goal !
Again this is my opinion from many years of experience:
" They don't care if you stay " " The big money is up front "
I say to this, an mmo can't be an mmo with this way of development, hence we don't have mmo's anymore !
Comments
Your typical thread...well, not just yours, most threads here follow same pattern :-P
I follow you on this Chevane,
37 is not much.......However, in the years I've noticed many people don't vote on this site for ALL POLES, not just mine. Not sure why, maybe because they can't for login reasons ?
37 votes for 232 views is about right, add that views can be the same people over ?...Not sure.
As far as an extremely small representation, Yes, your right !
However, their is no other source other than this site, and a pole on it other than written text from the millions of topics and replies. And many are very negative, It really is not just me, I'm just blunt.
Or do companies have to do summersalts and try and please the 85% whom internally can not agree what makes a good MMORPG anyway? Which ultimately would probably after a so called real MMORPGs creation, would end up with just another 15% content people?
You have 100s of MMORPGs available, but insists that there has to be made one game above them all that pleases all? Or at least the 85% whom you think will suddenly will be able to agree that one game is good, once its made and they play it through?
There are some really nice MMORPGs out there and more will be made.
Can these games be improved? Sure, but improvement is subjective to each player.
There is not a fat chance the 85% that you try to establish group identity with, will all agree with you, once the game you! like, will be made.
Things evolve, you might not like the way things and games evolve, but they do.
Some will like the changes, some will not, but my guess is, that almost no matter what you do and how you try to switch the happy and unhappy people around in different games, it might be a pretty constant 15% that are happy.
One day a game will be made that will allow you to be in that 15% group, maybe, and if you will somehow be able to be comfortable being in the minority.
You can do that now already if you want, but I have a feeling its not so much about the subject, as much as its about making threads, of this kind, for a bit of pass time discussion.
Which is also fine. You do what you have to do.
I can only provide anecdotal evidence to support your post. The people that got me into MMORPGs don't play MMORPGs anymore. I don't play MMORPGs anymore. The reasons are the same, WE don't like the changes in existing products and WE don't like new products. WE don't like the direction the industry has taken the genre.
Vanilla WoW brought new players into the genre expanding the marketplace for MMORPGs. The real question is this, Is the market for MMORPGs growing or shrinking?
Already here, it's called TSW
(at least that was the case during the past 4 years... who knows what are they planning for 2017 with the big update we still don't know a thing about)
---
Just a sidenote, don't wanna derail the thread: if you really want to be unhappy with the 'future of the genre', it's pointless to worry about monetization, or buggy releases, or no new games released just re-heated Asian 3-4 years old ones. What you should worry about instead, is mobile.
Fun story: a couple month ago at a friendly gathering a guy's phone beeped the alarm. "Oops, the raid starting" and he pulled away for 20 minutes, pushing the phone. This guy was the exact anti-thesis of my own playstyle: he's your textbook-case 'living by the raid-calendar' fella, close to 10 years in biggest guilds of wow, etc.
Turned out he haven't touched PC MMOs since a year, he and his buddies playing mobile MMO now, because it is more convenient, can play any time, from anywhere, so it is more family-time-friendly, it's cheap, the play sessions are short, etc. So yep, if mobiles can turn even a former massively MMO-addict player, the 'future of the genre' is grim indeed.
I do see where your going with this. You can't please everyone.
It's why we have so many choices in the cars. You need a variety of makes and models.
However, it seems as the popular opinion is not the style of mmo, but the greed of the companies.
It would be different if the problem were styles.
Gonna put that on a bit of a one end category. So what you are saying is, in theory, if all developers stopped charging money for their products, people will be happy with what ever is produced?
I mean if its only a matter of the "greed" of companies right?
I seem to notice how faithful you are to your own ideas and thoughts on the subject, which is fine, we all have our key views and things we stand passionately up for.
However I would like to suggest that instead of doing everything you can, to avoid taking in different ideas and perceptions, that you try, just briefly, does not have to be always, but just every now and then, just try and do a "hmm, I wonder what this means" moment.
Just as a suggestion of course. Games evolve by trying out new things now then and companies learn to earn more money, by trying different payment methods now and then. And people evolve by trying different reactions now and then.
Everything can evolve, you can too.
Their reports show gamers playing all sorts of games right now, and do confirm MMORPGs aren't as popular as other genres, which has always been the case really, even in its heyday the genre was niche.
Game Devs collect data like this all the time, recently this site had an article from a Blizz lead sharing what drives players to quit and how it isn't often what many here say, changes in design.
CCP conducts exit polls, my friends and I all quit recently leaving the same feedback, changes in mining design.
But they've shared results before to explain their efforts to improve new player experience as EVE struggles to retain customers.
This site is a place where bitter old MMORPG gamers like me come to bitch our lives away and chase people off of our lawns.
Few in their right minds would create a game based on survey results taken from here.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
/facepalm
Move along folks, nothing to see here!
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
I really enjoy talking about my hobbies; my friends enjoy playing their hobbies. I have a high degree of certainty that those of us who visit here regularly and participate in polls are not the majority.
Yes, there's statistical evidence showing that MMORPG's are losing ground in the popularity contest war, however, I would venture to guess that it's just as much a factor of "OOOH SHINY!" as it is legitimate gripes with the game mechanics.
I really think that modern gamers are an "OOOH SHINY!" group of people who hop from one new game to another. I mean, you hear everyone talk about how great Modern Warfare 1 is... but what are millions of people playing? Not MW1, but the newest CoD. They could play MW1 if they wanted, but... *SQUIRREL!*
"Everything above are facts."
You're saying it's a fact the majority are unhappy, as well as this is the only place that is reliable to find that information? What the figgidy puck?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
News at 11 MMO's are increasingly niche games, the end of the world is nigh
The large majority of MMO players will never visit forums. Those who visit forums are a very specific subset of the population - they will differ from those who don't post and just play. Out of those who do visit forums, only a tiny fraction will visit external forums (such as MMORPG.com). Again, those who come to external forums will differ greatly to whose who visit official game-specific forums.
My guess is most of the MMORPG.com users are players with long MMO experience. People who have played many MMOs and for one reason or another, enjoy talking about either the games in general. That is not say there is not cause for concern - the same dissatisfaction with developers seems to echo throughout the internet, not just here. At the same time, looking at WoW for example, there still seems to be decent interest for whatever WoW is delivering. It's not a social experience, it's not a customer oriented experience, yet people still seem to enjoy it.
In my opinion, the two most important metrics you can look at are player retention and the number of games a single player plays at a time. MMOs do vary in their retention patterns. You will have games that release, get 1M players and lose 90% of the playerbase in a month. This either tells you people are not interested in those ideas, that the ideas were executed poorly, that the game was short-term oriented or that the target market simply plays that way now. It may also mean there is a lot of competition in that sector - the ideas may be good, but there are too many options to choose from. It can also mean overhyping on release, getting the majority of players who are not your target market.
Then you have games that retain most playerbase and whose numbers climb steadily. Similar to EVE on release. This can mean that the idea is good, but not understood by mass market. It may also mean the idea is great, but there are not enough resources for marketing. Or it can mean the players are simply too invested to leave, regardless of how good/bad the game actually is. You sometimes see this with Kickstarter games - once the amount of money crosses a threshold, the founders keep funding the game, regardless of the amount of delivered content.
The point is, it's a complicated market with many factors. You would need to carry out a comprehensive analysis to answer some of your questions. I think there is legitimate cause for concern, but I don't think we will see a mass exodus of any online games. I don't understand the market well enough to tell you what we will see. I'm guessing a shift in the notion of what a MMO is, with a larger variety of MMOs coming out over the next few years.
Your perfect, social, grindy MMO of the 90's and early 00's will never comeback. Not even the grumpy dreamers would play it, they just have an illusion that they will be able to relive their memories when everyone was a newbie lacking information. Those times will never come back, if they do, it won't last more than two weeks.
edit- aah i see farming LOL's
Heck, I remember going to a PAX event and talking with people and they barely knew most MMO's though they Played Star Wars the Old Republic and World of Warcraft.
But then again would you consider them mmo players? I mean those are two of the most popular Western mmo's.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
So small sample size in an area with a skewed bias is not representative of the market.
Here we have a subset of the MMO market (those that predominantly like older style games) a subset of that market (that that know about the forums) a subset of that market (that that post on forums) a subset of that market (those that bothered to post in this poll).
There is nothing in this that represents the market.
In good stat measurement they target several different areas or have an area with a good mix so that it is more representative of the wider market.
Now, I'm not saying theyre all perfect games but theres a fuckload of variety.