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Long time PnP and MMO player observations
Greyhawk4x4
Member UncommonPosts: 480
As a long time PnP D&D and MMO gamer, it saddens me on many levels to say that DDO disapointed so much that I had to cancel.
The lack of the Solo/Sandbox aspect dumbfounds me. The game is so linear that it fundamentally contradicts PnP D&D from the outset.
The lack of any tradeskills/crafting and player based economy alienates many long time MMO players(and in PnP D&D there are secondary skills such as leatherworking, brewing, etc.).
On a postive note, they got rogues right and the graphics are great.
Bottom line, if you like questing and ONLY questing in groups, then DDO is for you.
Comments
First off... You can never have PnP DnD in a MMO format. It just wont work... You can have something that is somewhat close...
Second... What is wrong with wanting to Solo in any game?
I like to group, but sometimes you just want to chill a bit and take your time, doing solo quests or crafting.
In D&D there are not such options.
Plus, the group content is pretty much repetitive and dull.
The same option should be in this game, specially this game since it's something that you can do at odd hours and not schedule.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
Try explaining that to this idiot.
Originally posted by ste2000
It's not about soloing, it s a bout having a choice.
I like to group, but sometimes you just want to chill a bit and take your time, doing solo quests or crafting.
In D&D there are not such options.
Plus, the group content is pretty much repetitive and dull.
Again, play a console game if you want to solo. Group content isn't the problem, the PvE content is the real lackluster as most of the PvE content doesn't try to utilize the players abilities and/or importance while in a group.
Well considering it is quite common for a single player to be seperated from the rest of the group in PnP games soloing some content, it is not actually anti D&D...
Look you are really missing the point, have a look in Vanguard forums and you will understand that your suggestion is addressed to the wrong person (post at the bottom):
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/72703/page/2
What I am saying is that in a MMORPG you need to have all the features available to make it complete: Solo, Group, Raid and crafting content.
Focusing only on Grouping and a bit of raiding is completely wrong, because, people doesn't want 100% of times to group, people want to be able to have the choice to do something else if they feel like.
DDO doesn't give this option, which I find very restrictive in a MMORPG.
Another thing. PVE and Group content is the same in DDO (adventuring in dungeons is PVE content). Since DDO is focused only on groups, all the PVE content gravitate around grouping, therefore if the PVE is lacking, Group content is lacking too.
Allow me to elaborate.
The most appealing aspect of traditional D&D is the feeling of freedom to choose the gaming experience you want to have.
For instance, I remember that on one campaign (PnP) in the Forgotten Realms a few years ago, a group of us invested in our favorite Tavern "Oak's Place" so that he could expand to have an Inn and stables. This was a nice break from Dungeon crawling and we had a blast hashing out the business details (and we had our own private rooms from then on).
Now, before everyone goes nuts on me, I know that DDO isn't PnP, however, wouldn't it be nice to take a break from questing to work on your blacksmith skills in order to forge yourself a new sword?
Maybe, it would just be nice to be able to have a Guild meeting in a tavern while SITTING and order an actual ALE (for those of us who like to role-play).
By the way, PnP D&D produced several "solo" modules for one player and one Dungeon Master. I can scan the covers and post the pics to my website if you do not beleive me.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm?post=711395&thread=67411&fp=1024,768,1144476802323,20060408021322
Try explaining that to this idiot.
Are you adressing this to me? Because if you are, quite frankly, I am confused... What I am saying in my statement is this... PnP DnD is not going to translate into an MMO exactly because there are to many changes that have to be made in order to make it an MMO. Most glaringly is PnP is strictly turn based... And you have a DM to make changes as needed in the game to keep it flowing. In an MMO all you have is the AI, which in DDO seems to be lacking... As I said too, you can have a game that is "close" to the PnP format.
If you are not talking to me, who are you talking to?
Originally posted by ste2000
It's not about soloing, it s a bout having a choice.
I like to group, but sometimes you just want to chill a bit and take your time, doing solo quests or crafting.
In D&D there are not such options.
Plus, the group content is pretty much repetitive and dull.
Again, play a console game if you want to solo. Group content isn't the problem, the PvE content is the real lackluster as most of the PvE content doesn't try to utilize the players abilities and/or importance while in a group.
I like to group, but sometimes you just want to chill a bit and take your time, doing solo quests or crafting.
In D&D there are not such options.
Plus, the group content is pretty much repetitive and dull.
We can say the same about Vanguard.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
First, there are plenty of options for a soloing in PnP D&D. I have played in a couple solo campaigns in my time, just me and a DM, and they were extremely fun and the roleplaying was rich. Not to mention, ever been in a party and have that rogue in your group who loved to go burglarize the jewelry shop whenever you returned to a new city? Well, that was usually a "solo" event. Bad part about it was that the rest of us had to sit there at the table.
Secondly, I am mainly a group oriented person. But there are sometimes when I do not have enough time to devote to a group, but would still like to play. Solo content serves this purpose very nicely.
I am a big believer in "options". If you have no options for other styles of game play, then you alienate people. Your game doesn't have to have "all" group or "all" solo content, a good game has a mix of both.
I didn't like DDO, because you had only one option of play in this game. Questing. That was it, no exploration, no crafting, nothing except grouping to conquer quests. Over and over and over and over. At least Guild Wars had henchman you could get to join you and had a world you could go out and explore. Not that I liked that game, I hate the over use of instancing and DDO is 100% instanced. Again, give people options.
They did nail the rogues though, have to give them kudos on that. And I loved the voice chat.
I like to group, but sometimes you just want to chill a bit and take your time, doing solo quests or crafting.
In D&D there are not such options.
Plus, the group content is pretty much repetitive and dull.
We can say the same about Vanguard.
Sorry you can't.
Vanguard will have solo, group, raid and crafting content, with an enphasys on group content.
We also don't know if the game will be repetitive since the game is still in Beta, unlike DDO...........
When Vanguard will be released and you played it, you are more than welcome to come and discuss it on Vanguard Forums.
I like to group, but sometimes you just want to chill a bit and take your time, doing solo quests or crafting.
In D&D there are not such options.
Plus, the group content is pretty much repetitive and dull.
We can say the same about Vanguard.
Sorry you can't.
Vanguard will have solo, group, raid and crafting content, with an enphasys on group content.
We also don't know if the game will be repetitive since the game is still in Beta, unlike DDO...........
When Vanguard will be released and you played it, you are more than welcome to come and discuss it on Vanguard Forums.
Here is a quote from April Jones...
“We’re not interested in being all things to all people,” said Jones honestly. Vanguard has been designed primarily as a group oriented game. They’ve done away with instancing and are focused squarely on the MMO aspects of the title. If all you do is solo, then it may be best to look elsewhere.
Sounds to me like there will be little soloing in Vanguard... Yes there will be some, but it sounds like not much.
I like to group, but sometimes you just want to chill a bit and take your time, doing solo quests or crafting.
In D&D there are not such options.
Plus, the group content is pretty much repetitive and dull.
We can say the same about Vanguard.
Sorry you can't.
Vanguard will have solo, group, raid and crafting content, with an enphasys on group content.
We also don't know if the game will be repetitive since the game is still in Beta, unlike DDO...........
When Vanguard will be released and you played it, you are more than welcome to come and discuss it on Vanguard Forums.
Here is a quote from April Jones...
“We’re not interested in being all things to all people,” said Jones honestly. Vanguard has been designed primarily as a group oriented game. They’ve done away with instancing and are focused squarely on the MMO aspects of the title. If all you do is solo, then it may be best to look elsewhere.
Sounds to me like there will be little soloing in Vanguard... Yes there will be some, but it sounds like not much.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!
Double post
I like to group, but sometimes you just want to chill a bit and take your time, doing solo quests or crafting.
In D&D there are not such options.
Plus, the group content is pretty much repetitive and dull.
We can say the same about Vanguard.
Sorry you can't.
Vanguard will have solo, group, raid and crafting content, with an enphasys on group content.
We also don't know if the game will be repetitive since the game is still in Beta, unlike DDO...........
When Vanguard will be released and you played it, you are more than welcome to come and discuss it on Vanguard Forums.
Here is a quote from April Jones...
“We’re not interested in being all things to all people,” said Jones honestly. Vanguard has been designed primarily as a group oriented game. They’ve done away with instancing and are focused squarely on the MMO aspects of the title. If all you do is solo, then it may be best to look elsewhere.
Sounds to me like there will be little soloing in Vanguard... Yes there will be some, but it sounds like not much.
I like to group, but sometimes you just want to chill a bit and take your time, doing solo quests or crafting.
In D&D there are not such options.
Plus, the group content is pretty much repetitive and dull.
We can say the same about Vanguard.
Sorry you can't.
Vanguard will have solo, group, raid and crafting content, with an enphasys on group content.
We also don't know if the game will be repetitive since the game is still in Beta, unlike DDO...........
When Vanguard will be released and you played it, you are more than welcome to come and discuss it on Vanguard Forums.
Here is a quote from April Jones...
“We’re not interested in being all things to all people,” said Jones honestly. Vanguard has been designed primarily as a group oriented game. They’ve done away with instancing and are focused squarely on the MMO aspects of the title. If all you do is solo, then it may be best to look elsewhere.
Sounds to me like there will be little soloing in Vanguard... Yes there will be some, but it sounds like not much.
Mhhhh probably you just read only my first 2 words.
Let me repeat the concept again:
"Vanguard will have solo, group, raid and crafting content, with an enphasys on group content."
I just want to point out the word "emphasys", which mean that the game will be mainly focused on grouping, but will have solo, raiding and crafting. I never said that is a game for soloers though, but you can choose to do so if you like.
That's what DDO should have done and didn't.
"The majority of content, regardless of level range, is centered around the grouping experience, with the minority focused on more casual content and raid content." -- Brad McQuaid -Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
As I said let's wait til Vanguard is out then you can criticise it.
DDO is already out and we know what is in and what is out.
Don't shift the discussion to other games, just because you can't find better arguments to defend DDO
If you guys like DDO that's nothing wrong with that, I am just giving my impression as a MMORPG lover and D&D fan, opinion shared with DDO fans by the way, so probably there is something true in it.
Mhhhh probably you just read only my first 2 words.
Let me repeat the concept again:
"Vanguard will have solo, group, raid and crafting content, with an enphasys on group content."
I just want to point out the word "emphasys", which mean that the game will be mainly focused on grouping, but will have solo, raiding and crafting. I never said that is a game for soloers though, but you can choose to do so if you like.
That's what DDO should have done and didn't.
"The majority of content, regardless of level range, is centered around the grouping experience, with the minority focused on more casual content and raid content." -- Brad McQuaid -Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
As I said let's wait til Vanguard is out then you can criticise it.
DDO is already out and we know what is in and what is out.
Don't shift the discussion to other games, just because you can't find better arguments to defend DDO
If you guys like DDO that's nothing wrong with that, I am just giving my impression as a MMORPG lover and D&D fan, opinion shared with DDO fans by the way, so probably there is something true in it.
I do not know about the others... I was just posting what I did about Vanguard to make sure it was known that there would be little soloing in Vanguard. (IMO) I doubt that I will buy the game for that reason... I will keep following it and see what happens...
Thank you. You are basically saying the same thing I am.
In a nutshell, DDO had and maybe still has the potential to offer SO much more variety of content. We can only hope the Devs of the game get inspired to do so.