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AAA MMORPG Alt Friendly/Not Main Centric
miguksaram
Member UncommonPosts: 835
As the title has stated, I'm looking for a MMORPG that is very alt friendly but not main centric. My preferred MMORPG of choice, and has been for many years, is WoW. But with the release of Legion it's becoming increasingly difficult to enjoy playing various classes/specs due to the Legendary/Artifact weapon system that has been introduced.
I'm now on the search for a MMORPG that fulfills what WoW used to offer in that I very much enjoy playing various classes/specs and yet I don't want to feel like my time spent doing so is a major detriment to those I play with simply because I don't "main" a specific class/spec.
I now reach out to the MMORPG community as a whole to try and find a game that satisfies what I once had in WoW as a game. If you know of a AAA MMORPG that caters to the idea that you can play multiple characters (classes/specs) and aren't a detriment to your fellow players please speak up.
I feel I should caveat all this by stating that I'm only concerned with PvE. PvP can be fun from time to time but it's not something that I tend to spend the majority, if honestly any, of my time on. Also, for those who might suggest it, I'm not a fan of games that require me to start over each time I die, whether that is perma death or otherwise.
As a father and the only person in my household that provides for my family my time is very limited, and yet, as previously stated, I enjoy exploring all that a game has to offer in terms of classes/specs. I'm simply trying to find the right game that meets my needs given my limited time and preferred method of play.
Thank you to all who contribute to this thread, I'm sure I'm not the only person in this conundrum.
EDIT: For reference, I have 5 110's characters in WoW all within 850-875 ilvl for any given spec and yet I still don't enjoy the current game play options due the need to concentrate on a "main" over anything else.
I'm now on the search for a MMORPG that fulfills what WoW used to offer in that I very much enjoy playing various classes/specs and yet I don't want to feel like my time spent doing so is a major detriment to those I play with simply because I don't "main" a specific class/spec.
I now reach out to the MMORPG community as a whole to try and find a game that satisfies what I once had in WoW as a game. If you know of a AAA MMORPG that caters to the idea that you can play multiple characters (classes/specs) and aren't a detriment to your fellow players please speak up.
I feel I should caveat all this by stating that I'm only concerned with PvE. PvP can be fun from time to time but it's not something that I tend to spend the majority, if honestly any, of my time on. Also, for those who might suggest it, I'm not a fan of games that require me to start over each time I die, whether that is perma death or otherwise.
As a father and the only person in my household that provides for my family my time is very limited, and yet, as previously stated, I enjoy exploring all that a game has to offer in terms of classes/specs. I'm simply trying to find the right game that meets my needs given my limited time and preferred method of play.
Thank you to all who contribute to this thread, I'm sure I'm not the only person in this conundrum.
EDIT: For reference, I have 5 110's characters in WoW all within 850-875 ilvl for any given spec and yet I still don't enjoy the current game play options due the need to concentrate on a "main" over anything else.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Vanguard was another that was great for alts , had 6 there... but Vanguard is gone .. for now ..
Have things changed to where it's a more PvE centric gaming experience? And if not why do you suggest I should check it out?
I know that DAOC is a VERY solid game but I'm looking for a different AAA MMORPG experience. Perhaps what I'm want doesn't exist and I'm willing to accept that but I definitely appreciate any/all input.
Especially when we are looking for modern AAA MMORPGs. Those of us who grew up in the era of EQ1/AC1/WoW(pre xpac)/etc. are seriously left wanting in today's environment.
IMO you should expand your gaming and stop limiting yourself to Blizzard only design ideas because you are selling yourself short...VERY short.
I can tell you one quick reason,your identity within the game,are you trying to HIDE behind alts?Spreading your skills/abilities to alts makes all of your progress worthless because none of your characters will ever be as advanced and versatile as a non alt game.So again why would you want a LESS versatile game?It is as bad as those games that limit your ability boxes,like saying ok we know you leaned Fire and Blizzard but you can only choose one ,then we PRETEND you somehow forgot that other spell...sigh,not making sense at all.
I can assume one reason but again,i was not making stuff up,there is NO reason for alts.If you want to multi box,you do NOT need an alt game to do that.Other than thatmi can think of no reason,if you simply want a different player,again,yo udo NOT need an alt game for that,simply make another player.
After all i have said and done,EQ2 is the game Blizzard copied,likely having played on test servers before it came out.Well they copied EQ1 template but i am certain knew of SOE's direction towards linear questing ..aka Asian grinder type design.I have always idealized EQ2 as a MUCH better version that Wow and for many reasons,well pretty much every design idea is better in EQ2.I had a choice between EQ2 and Wow and easily decided on EQ2 because i am not a bandwagon jumper,i simply look for the best version of each genre.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
With that said, you ask why would someone like me want to spend time on "alts" as opposed to concentrate on a singular character? Well honestly it's because I genuinely enjoy all aspects of a given game. If you decide to limit your experience to that of a given class/spec can you honestly say that you truly know that much about the game?
While I certainly respect those that devote themselves to a given character (class/spec) I also feel sorry for the general populace for the fact they haven't experienced that much of game at hand from a different perspective.
I suppose I probably already answered my own question in that there is only one AAA MMORPG that comes to mind which allows me to play it from start to "finish" with a single character and yet "experience" it all, FFIV.
And yet that game still seems to favor playing a "main" over anything else which is not what I'm looking for.
EQ2 and by proxy of what should have been, EQN, honestly should have been the best MMORPG on the market, but it's not. Why is that? EQ2 is a great game but has too many cross classes, unlike EQ1 imho.
This is not meant to be a slam post but rather a reflection on why the current MMORPG market is fairly stagnant when it comes to providing a great gaming experience.
EDIT: BTW, I feel I should edit this by stating that I generally "try" every new game that releases and I'm in no way shape or for limited from a PC standpoint.
If they have indeed gotten over the launch issues I'm looking forward to spending much of my free time in this game.
Do you have any recommendations for a new players (I was a founder so I have the game) when it comes to restarting?
And yes, it is much improved over launch in many ways. My main advice is to start a new character to get the feel for how it plays now. If you already have characters at higher levels it'll be confusing to get started with those since so much has changed especially with the abilities.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
You can collect the things needed for top tier gear on any character. All top tier gear is account bound, not character bound, even after you equip it. You can give your ascended armor to another character any time you like. All achievements and wardrobe unlocks are on an account basis. Currency is account based. Storage is account based. Mastery Unlocks (from the expansion) are account based. PvP and WvW ranks are account based (I know you're not into PvP, but still..). It's an account game, not a character game.
It is the MOST alt friendly game I can think of and I've played pretty much every MMO going.
The only time you really need to concentrate on one character is when you're going for 100% base game map completion to get an ingredient for making a legendary weapon.. but that is a loooong way into the game and by that time, if you're still playing, you'll be happy to do it. You don't ever need to get a legendary weapon though, if you don't want to bother.
Plus, the size of world and dynamic event design makes playing alts a lot more varied and interesting. Seriously, I can't think of a better game for you to try out if you haven't already. The core game is free now.
A lot of good responses to this, but I'll throw in a little reason as well:
1) Guilds: Some High End Guilds (Or guilds in general that have multiple raid teams) often want you to have multiple characters ready to go. This is especially true if you're a tank or a healer, and if said guild has more than one group (such as a training group), to avoid lockouts and still have you help get others gear. Additionally, it's a good idea to know what your fellow classes are capable of doing and how they will react in certain situations.
2) PvP: Being a high rated PvPer takes a lot more than just knowing or mastering your class -- you have to know and master every class. Know their weakness first hand, when they will use their counter, when it is a good idea to use yours and wait for an opportunity, how many ways they can escape or reset the fight, etc.
3) Tradeskills / Gathering / Crafting: Some games limit you to two crafts or gathering. While you could shell out ungodly amounts of gold, you could just as easily make said gold and have the ability to craft everything for yourself and your guild.
4) Story: Some games have different factions or areas you start on, which have different story elements. Seeing the game from the other side allows you to further experience everything the game has to offer, and make new friends that you would never meet due to faction limitations. This can be used in conjunction with all of the above in starting a new class, craft and learning that class and how you would react to situations.
5) Class Story and Mechanics: Sometimes a change is needed. Classes have different abilities, animations, rotations, party roles, etc. In some games, they even have their own story or way the world interacts with them (like in FFXIV and, to a lesser extent, Legion -- in 7.2. there are even class specific mounts that you get each time you finish the class story at level 110). This could also mean trying out a new role such as healing or tanking or DPS, as not all classes are hybrid.
6) Economy: Similar to # 3 on the list, sometimes there are restrictions on auction houses as to the number of items you can put up. Or there are too many items for one character to make, or you are limited to one craft per character, or something. Being self sufficient and experiencing all the game has to offer rather than limiting yourself with one character is something that is very real. You can also make anything for your friends, yourself and basically own the economy if you play right. With Warlords of Draenor and Legion, for example, you could have made millions upon millions of gold if you have a few dozen characters at max. Per character. With the garrison system. Legion is similar, as you can make 2,000 gold per Class Hall quest (500+1500 bonus when you have all Ilvl 850 followers), Anywhere between 1,000-5,000 gold from world quests per day, per character (Blue / Purple Gold Rewards done on every character), every gathering profession, every crafting profession, 12+ LFR gold and epic (disenchant) and rune rewards (selling at 500g each, per boss that takes a couple of minutes)
7) Versatility: The ability to plan any class with friends, depending on what they need or want. If they prefer a Disc. Priest for something, you have it. Protection tank? You have it. DPS? Ret Paladin for blessings? You have it. While this has gone down slightly with Legion and them taking away most buffs besides Blessings, you could give one or two or even three of the 8+ buffs that a party / raid could have or what the class brought.
8) Role Play: Similar to Story, there are things you learn on specific classes, in some games. Or you may be interested in role playing. Specific class stories, learning the new lore, seeing class specific areas, acquiring class specific mounts, etc. Maybe playing a villain for a guild, but wanting to play a normal character or a good guy, so making an alt when that guild doesn't have an event or you don't set something up.
9) Interest: Sometimes you get tired of a game and playing a new class, or starting over following a different leveling path could revitalize things. Or you want to PvP in lower brackets. Perhaps it's been years since you've experienced some areas and story. Or want to do old dungeons, but can't since they don't level sync. So you lock your level to play them any time you want, or just make a new character and level through dungeons.
Final Note: I've no real problems with them making alts difficult, honestly, if I intend to main a game. Though if I'm there just to have fun, then that fun equals trying everything the game has to offer and not just 10% of it by sticking with a single class. If they try to impede that fun, and it isn't my main, I end up not playing it for very long. That said, I managed to get gold capped on WoW a few times back when it was my main. I'm gil capped on FFXIV on a few characters now, as well. Making alts to make in-game currency in every mmo is literally my own end game, and will always have advantages over not having it. The harder it is, the more worthwhile the reward, in most cases as most won't bother and nerfs aren't made to the content.
Whether one plays only a main and experiences only what that main has to offer, or branches out, it's up to the individual to figure out what is fun for them. We should not be so closed minded and come to way-out-there conclusions regarding such. It almost feels like one of those weekly "LFR should be taken out" threads on a WoW forum. Or hating someone based solely on their faction or their class or their race in game. I mean, how dare people enjoy things that I don't like.
So I'd like to talk more about Tree of Savior, as it's both more recent and more obscure. While a 3D game with modern graphics, it's combat from an overhead "three-quarters" view reminiscent of the early Zelda games, sometimes mistakenly called isometric. It's a quest-based PVE theme park with probably over 200 zones, most of which are pretty big, and typically about 10 or so quests per zone. They do a very good job of mixing up the quests so that it's not basically just doing the same thing over and over.
If you pay the $9/month optional subscription (the main way the game makes money), you can pass most things among your characters freely. So I get one set of most armor pieces that are shared among all of my characters. For some slots, it's two pieces (one for casters and the other for physical damage), but still shared among 12 characters. Weapons are more class-specific, but a lot of my weapons are shared by at least three of those 12 characters and sometimes more.
Tree of Savior also has a notion of "team level", based on the sum of the squares of your character levels. A higher team level means all of your characters get experience bonuses. Right now, I get a 21% bonus from team level even though my highest level character other than my pet is only level 147 (as compared to a cap of 330). I say "other than my pet" because pets are also shared among all characters on an account, and since all the characters bring the same pet, the pet is much higher level (currently 210) than any of my own characters. With character levels near the cap, this can go as high as a team level bonus of +100% experience.
The game has something like 4 free character slots, but you can buy more for $3 each, up to a cap of 15 per account. Pets count toward toward this limit. You can bring the price on character slots down a bit, as you get 1 free TP (the item mall currency) per 4 hours until you have 5, so the 33 TP charge can be 5 free TP plus 28 paid TP, or about a pro-rated $2.55 per slot. The subscription is very explicitly per-account, not per character. If you buy an expensive pet (about $30 or so), that can be shared among all of your characters, too. Paid costumes tend to be class-specific, so they probably can't be shared among all of your characters.
You're not going to be able to play all of the classes, though, unless you either have multiple accounts or have a lot of them only go to circle 1 and stop. Here's the list:
http://www.tosbase.com/game/classes/
The way it works is that you start with a rank 1 class. When your class level reaches 15, you can pick a new class of rank 2, or go to the "second circle" of your previous class, allowing you to get additional and higher rank skills for your rank 1 class. That resets your class level to 1, and when it reaches 15 again, you can pick a new class of rank 3 or lower, or an additional circle of a class you previously chose. Each class can go up to three circles except for the rank 7 and 8 classes, as rank 8 is the end. If they add rank 9, then they'll add a third circle for the rank 7 classes and a second for the rank 8 classes.
All class choices must stay in the same archetype as your original class decision. So you can't start as archer and then add cryomancer as your rank 2 class, as that would require you to start as wizard. But different classes in the same archetype can play wildly differently. Some of the classes like Sadhu, Linker, Pardoner, or Templar are really unique and unlike classes I've ever seen in any other game.
Also the shared bank in Everquest 2 was equally good as a means to share and pass things in between alts.
It helps too if the mailing system is not punitive meaning every time you mail something it is calculated on the amount you sent I recall some game doing that but cannot recall which where I finally gave up alting as it got too expensive to mail raw materials in between alts.
Another thing that is equally important is that you must actually enjoy something about playing the other alts in that they are different skill sets or doing a different story like SWTOR enough for it to be interesting to alt. Recently after going back to Dark Age of Camelot which as some of you might be aware has an amazing number of classes I discovered to my dismay at some point I had created close to 22 alts on Gaheris.
The reason I had so many alts on Everquest at one time was that I wanted to play on two different factions and I enjoyed the different classes in that game. At one time the two different faction characters on the same account could not use the shared bank but that changed with time.
How about you? Why do you play games? So that you can have something to go on extended rants about?
If two different variants of the same base class play exactly the same for a long time before they branch off, that can be a problem for someone who wants to try both, as that gets really repetitive. If they branch early (e.g., maybe 1-2 hours in Tree of Savior before you pick your second class), then that's not such a problem. If you can freely flip back and forth between variants on a single character just by equipping different gear, then I'm not sure what that has to do with alts. So really, I want more details on how that works.
The third point is interesting, but its utility depends a lot on whether different alts have reasonable use of the same gear. If it's the model of lots of things are bind on pickup, but you can at least pass it to an alt that can use it, that's useful. If several characters of different classes entirely can reasonably use the same piece of gear, that's more useful.
The class variants can start diverging very early. In ESO character power is defined by which of three stats you choose to emphasize through stat allocation upon leveling and gear. A stamina based sorcerer for example is and plays very differently from a magicka based one and both are very different from a sorcerer tank. That differentiation starts as soon as you start equipping gear and allocating points - technically from level 2 while still in the tutorial area. Theoretically you can flip back and forth but that would take re-speccing everything at a cost and using totally different weapons and armor whose use you will also need to level up through use over time. Most of us treat them as different classes, develop them differently and keep them that way.
Gear in ESO generally falls into one of 4 purposes: tanking, healing, magicka based DPS and Stamina-based DPS. There are refinements and ESO uses 5-piece bonuses on sets liberally with very many different sets that drop in specific locations at all levels. Those bonuses can be generally useful or very specific. For example, within the general category of Magicka sorcerer DPS, there are sets that provide bonuses if you choose to use summoned creatures that would be useless to sorcerers that don't use them.
There are also sets that would be useful for any magicka DPS character regardless of class. There are well over 100 different gear sets and their use varies widely from the very specific to the very general.
The gear cap currently is 160 champion points which is very easy to achieve. Once one of your characters reaches CP160, any subsequent alts jump straight from level 49 to whatever your maximum CP happens to be and can therefore start using that max level gear immediately.
That's why most of our banks are full of good CP160 gear waiting to be used for special purposes and special builds by our alts
It really is about as alt friendly as MMOs get.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Ah yes the constant nothing to say but bash Blizz at any turn. You need a life in the worst way.
ESO makes everyone just about the same level but I don't know if they fixed the instanced grouping problem. But the non-instanced stuff should be few problems like just running around as a group.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I looked into ESO once (I think it was shortly after launch, but I'm not sure) and gave up because I couldn't find much information on it. The official site said very prominently how to buy the game, but didn't have much information about the game itself. Maybe I'll have to have another look sometime, if the fan sites are better developed now than they were then so that there's a lot of good information on it.
Thank you for your explanation of class variants and gear. You make it sound like trinity combat, which I'm usually not a fan of, but there have been some games that did have decently good combat that could kind of be classified as trinity but mostly went off and did their own thing.
Even boss fights in instances are anything but tank and spank with many interesting mechanics that keep the whole group on their toes.
The newer dungeons and the "2" version of the legacy dungeons in particular have a lot of interesting boss mechanics that need to be executed properly to survive.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED