Modern MMO players want everything handed to them?

Question2 · March 2017

I grew up playing old school MMOs like RO, which were pretty badly designed IMHO. Old school MMOs typically had few or no quests, and were mostly about grinding mobs in some random field. Any quests usually had cryptic instructions and things like quest logs were unheard of.

WoW popularized a quest based leveling system that actually told players where to go and what to do in order to level. Before that, questions like "I am level X now, where should i go to level/farm gold?" were really common.

MMOs have definately made a huge shift to making everything easier for players. Look at the amount of time needed to reach max level in a modern MMO like WOW vs something like RO for example. And you used to need to stop leveling to farm lower level mobs to get gold, since mobs for your level needed too many healing items.

Despite MMOs becoming a lot easier, I still see most newbies complaining that they are "too hard". The record breaker so far is a guy who played for less than 1 hour, did 3 or 4 quests, got to level 6 (level cap being 90) then quit because it was "too hard".

It is VERY common to see newbies complain they don't have money....but they won't do side quests for gold, sell stuff on the marketplace, or...pretty much anything. When I ask them how they want to get gold, they either say "idk" or stop responding.

Newbies want gear, but arent willing to kill stuff for materials to craft said gear because "ceebs", "too hard" or "takes too long". Nor do they have money to buy the gear from other players.

Newbies want to level, but arent willing to kill monsters to do so. Why? "Too boring to solo", "too hard", "takes too long" or "idk". One guy told me he prefered to play another MMO (might have been TERA, i dont remember) where you could apparently hit level cap in an hour or something and "it's awesome".

Newbies want to raid, but arent willing to talk to people to form a party. This is particularly puzzling. Recently, there were a bunch of newbies who wanted to do raids so I basically told them to talk to each other and gave them a list of names. 10 minutes later, one guy ran off to solo stuff and the rest were still standing around and were asking each other if anything was happening. I told them to talk to each other again. 10 minutes later, there was still no progress. Finally someone made a party to do a few raids, but they played for less than an hour before people started logging off to play other games.

That's actually better than average, because what usually happens is that people don't talk to each other and end up standing around doing nothing or they just log off to play something else.

I just had this conversation on steam with a newbie, literally minutes ago :

7:13 PM - [Redcated]: anyone want to farm seals?
7:14 PM - Question: did you try talking to the people i told you about?
7:14 PM - Question: i literally made a list of names for you
7:15 PM - [Redcated]: list of names?
7:15 PM - Question: check the steam group comments
7:17 PM - [Redcated]: aren't they in the chat?
7:17 PM - Question: not all of them
7:17 PM - Question: go check the list
7:18 PM - [Redcated]: I know most of them
7:18 PM - Question: then go message them
7:20 PM - [Redcated]: off line
7:20 PM - Question: try messaging them on steam
7:20 PM - [Redcated]: what a sad game...
7:21 PM - Question: why? most people are not in game all the time
7:21 PM - Question: but they are on steam
7:21 PM - Question: add them to friend list and message them

At this point he stopped responding. I literally made a list of players that he could party with, gave it to him, but he wont talk to them to form a party. Most newbies do the same thing. I dont get this mentality at all. Its like everyone just wants someone else to organize the party for them. If that doesnt happen, its the game's fault or something.

I dont know if anyone else sees this happen, but it just seems that most modern MMO players want everything on easy mode and arent willing to actually play the game to do anything. Im not talking about farming something for 100+ hours, but they wont even spend an hour trying to farm a rare drop before giving up. They want rare drops on every single raid or the game is broken. They want to hit level cap in an hour or something. Etc.

Thoughts?

4507 · March 2017

I've noticed this too, but I think it's just a consequence of MMOs having expanded their audience. In their earlier days, the people who tried MMOs were usually the type to play MMOs (lots of spare time, good internet communication skills, etc). Today, many people that try MMOs don't have the right personality to succeed in one, so far more people stop playing after a few hours/days.

Competition between games is also a major contributing factor to the higher rate of early-game drop outs - why spend a month getting my account ready to PvP when I can hop into a MOBA or FPS and instantly start PvPing?

pantaro · March 2017

I've notice this just about every where in gaming honestly if any game has a mechanic that is not handing the average gamer something on a platter it's convoluted or crap they will tell you cause god forbid we have games where we have to actually work or learn how to do something. i also think part of the problem is majority of mmo's are just single player quest grinds with multiplayer options tacked on,so no wonder so many go into mmo's then suddenly are expected to group it's alien to them and they dont want it.

it's actually what motivated me to stop playing theme-parks and try out eve online cause everyone swears it has this crazy learning curve(it doesnt!) just got tired of going into mmo's and within 5 mins knowing everything and other players not mattering

delete5230 · March 2017

Their are mmos and their are playgrounds.

Sure their are a lot of playground liking people, we have well over 7 billion people on the planet.

But the problem is NO MMOS !!!!!............ Because we have over 7 billion people, you would think we would have at least one mmo.

I would think we have more mmo liking people than playground people. But marketing only gives us playgrounds.

madazz · March 2017

This is an extremely old argument and is no longer really valid. People are actually craving more, which is why there are so many survival games, and so many doing well despite them being buggy and in eternal alpha/beta. I'm sure you'll come across people quite often who are lazy, wallet warriors and more... but when there are so many millions of players you'll see most things frequently. MMO comings and goings are pretty easy to predict. When it was all themeparks, you had to of known that many dev's got the que from complaints and started making sandbox games. Just like that, you can predict that when people get what they want, they will want something else eventually.

Problem is, the community in many places are for change, but tell devs otherwise when they whine for all the games to be the same.

Kevan_f · March 2017

...and devs want more money for less actual content.
or not?

who knows, simply all mmo's are thesame thing, atm. grind

hatefulpeace · March 2017

Question2 said:

I grew up playing old school MMOs like RO, which were pretty badly designed IMHO. Old school MMOs typically had few or no quests, and were mostly about grinding mobs in some random field. Any quests usually had cryptic instructions and things like quest logs were unheard of.

WoW popularized a quest based leveling system that actually told players where to go and what to do in order to level. Before that, questions like "I am level X now, where should i go to level/farm gold?" were really common.

MMOs have definately made a huge shift to making everything easier for players. Look at the amount of time needed to reach max level in a modern MMO like WOW vs something like RO for example. And you used to need to stop leveling to farm lower level mobs to get gold, since mobs for your level needed too many healing items.

Despite MMOs becoming a lot easier, I still see most newbies complaining that they are "too hard". The record breaker so far is a guy who played for less than 1 hour, did 3 or 4 quests, got to level 6 (level cap being 90) then quit because it was "too hard".

It is VERY common to see newbies complain they don't have money....but they won't do side quests for gold, sell stuff on the marketplace, or...pretty much anything. When I ask them how they want to get gold, they either say "idk" or stop responding.

Newbies want gear, but arent willing to kill stuff for materials to craft said gear because "ceebs", "too hard" or "takes too long". Nor do they have money to buy the gear from other players.

Newbies want to level, but arent willing to kill monsters to do so. Why? "Too boring to solo", "too hard", "takes too long" or "idk". One guy told me he prefered to play another MMO (might have been TERA, i dont remember) where you could apparently hit level cap in an hour or something and "it's awesome".

Newbies want to raid, but arent willing to talk to people to form a party. This is particularly puzzling. Recently, there were a bunch of newbies who wanted to do raids so I basically told them to talk to each other and gave them a list of names. 10 minutes later, one guy ran off to solo stuff and the rest were still standing around and were asking each other if anything was happening. I told them to talk to each other again. 10 minutes later, there was still no progress. Finally someone made a party to do a few raids, but they played for less than an hour before people started logging off to play other games.

That's actually better than average, because what usually happens is that people don't talk to each other and end up standing around doing nothing or they just log off to play something else.

I just had this conversation on steam with a newbie, literally minutes ago :

7:13 PM - [Redcated]: anyone want to farm seals?
7:14 PM - Question: did you try talking to the people i told you about?
7:14 PM - Question: i literally made a list of names for you
7:15 PM - [Redcated]: list of names?
7:15 PM - Question: check the steam group comments
7:17 PM - [Redcated]: aren't they in the chat?
7:17 PM - Question: not all of them
7:17 PM - Question: go check the list
7:18 PM - [Redcated]: I know most of them
7:18 PM - Question: then go message them
7:20 PM - [Redcated]: off line
7:20 PM - Question: try messaging them on steam
7:20 PM - [Redcated]: what a sad game...
7:21 PM - Question: why? most people are not in game all the time
7:21 PM - Question: but they are on steam
7:21 PM - Question: add them to friend list and message them

At this point he stopped responding. I literally made a list of players that he could party with, gave it to him, but he wont talk to them to form a party. Most newbies do the same thing. I dont get this mentality at all. Its like everyone just wants someone else to organize the party for them. If that doesnt happen, its the game's fault or something.

I dont know if anyone else sees this happen, but it just seems that most modern MMO players want everything on easy mode and arent willing to actually play the game to do anything. Im not talking about farming something for 100+ hours, but they wont even spend an hour trying to farm a rare drop before giving up. They want rare drops on every single raid or the game is broken. They want to hit level cap in an hour or something. Etc.

Thoughts?

It comes down to this. 30 years ago, we had Mario and Zelda 2, 2 of the most unforgiving games. We also had this, you better get your ass up and go to school, mow the lawn, clean your room, do the dishes, and your homework, if you don't your going to bed with no games your ass wooped and no food. Now you have, here I'll give you a call phone if you clean your room, and do your chores. If you use discipline it's child abuse. Those people want a game like wow and new age games where you could ball slap the controller like a baboon, and still win.

Why because they don't handle disappointment very well, and have the displine of a wild monkey. So giving these people a game where if you die you lose almost everything, would be like trying to give a wild baboon a pen and telling it to write the alphabet. Now if you give said baboon nice treats , and stuff like that then you could get that baboon to write the alphabet.

There is your answer. Now to prove you aren't a baboon, go beat Zelda 2 for nes, with no cheat guide, on the original nes, with no cheats. When you throw the controller in rage, make sure you have some one there to shout at you, you better not be braking that game system I just busted my ass to buy you, or your gonna get your ass wooped and no dinner. NOW GO WASH THE DISHES.

Quizzical · March 2017

hatefulpeace said:
It comes down to this. 30 years ago, we had Mario and Zelda 2, 2 of the most unforgiving games. We also had this, you better get your ass up and go to school, mow the lawn, clean your room, do the dishes, and your homework, if you don't your going to bed with no games your ass wooped and no food. Now you have, here I'll give you a call phone if you clean your room, and do your chores. If you use discipline it's child abuse. Those people want a game like wow and new age games where you could ball slap the controller like a baboon, and still win.

Why because they don't handle disappointment very well, and have the displine of a wild monkey. So giving these people a game where if you die you lose almost everything, would be like trying to give a wild baboon a pen and telling it to write the alphabet. Now if you give said baboon nice treats , and stuff like that then you could get that baboon to write the alphabet.

There is your answer. Now to prove you aren't a baboon, go beat Zelda 2 for nes, with no cheat guide, on the original nes, with no cheats. When you throw the controller in rage, make sure you have some one there to shout at you, you better not be braking that game system I just busted my ass to buy you, or your gonna get your ass wooped and no dinner. NOW GO WASH THE DISHES.

Zelda 2 was an unforgiving game? I made it all the way into the Great Palace with my sword at level 1 once, which meant that killing everything took 12 times as many hits as if I had leveled my sword to 8. But the challenge there was about gameplay, not assembling groups. Assembling groups is boring.

aliven · March 2017

4507 said:

I've noticed this too, but I think it's just a consequence of MMOs having expanded their audience. In their earlier days, the people who tried MMOs were usually the type to play MMOs (lots of spare time, good internet communication skills, etc). Today, many people that try MMOs don't have the right personality to succeed in one, so far more people stop playing after a few hours/days.

Competition between games is also a major contributing factor to the higher rate of early-game drop outs - why spend a month getting my account ready to PvP when I can hop into a MOBA or FPS and instantly start PvPing?

So MMO of old were played by children without any responsibilities and moderm MMO players dont have the right personality because they grew up and facepalmed after realizing how much time they wasted?

seshomaru3789 · March 2017

It really just depends on what the person prefers. For example, I never had the chance of playing RO, EQ, etc. They sound like fun but I was too young/(didn't know about it) for it when they were in their prime. Now I am 22 and try to find challenging MMO's that will give me those experiences that you all (mostly) seem to have had. That is the kind of thing that I find fun. My friend(s), however do not. They say they do not find thos things fun, but more of a chore. It is just a preference thing, and unfortunately we seem to be in the minority.

By the way, if you don't mind saying (and if I missed it I apologize) but what game were you referencing int his post?

Distopia · March 2017

delete5230 said:

Their are mmos and their are playgrounds.

Sure their are a lot of playground liking people, we have well over 7 billion people on the planet.

But the problem is NO MMOS !!!!!............ Because we have over 7 billion people, you would think we would have at least one mmo.

I would think we have more mmo liking people than playground people. But marketing only gives us playgrounds.

Are you saying EVE isn't an MMO?

Distopia · March 2017

hatefulpeace said:

It comes down to this. 30 years ago, we had Mario and Zelda 2, 2 of the most unforgiving games. We also had this, you better get your ass up and go to school, mow the lawn, clean your room, do the dishes, and your homework, if you don't your going to bed with no games your ass wooped and no food. Now you have, here I'll give you a call phone if you clean your room, and do your chores. If you use discipline it's child abuse. Those people want a game like wow and new age games where you could ball slap the controller like a baboon, and still win.

Why because they don't handle disappointment very well, and have the displine of a wild monkey. So giving these people a game where if you die you lose almost everything, would be like trying to give a wild baboon a pen and telling it to write the alphabet. Now if you give said baboon nice treats , and stuff like that then you could get that baboon to write the alphabet.

There is your answer. Now to prove you aren't a baboon, go beat Zelda 2 for nes, with no cheat guide, on the original nes, with no cheats. When you throw the controller in rage, make sure you have some one there to shout at you, you better not be braking that game system I just busted my ass to buy you, or your gonna get your ass wooped and no dinner. NOW GO WASH THE DISHES.

Mario and Zelda unforgiving games? No that would be Battletoads and Castlevania :)P

Muke · March 2017

4507 said:

I've noticed this too, but I think it's just a consequence of MMOs having expanded their audience. In their earlier days, the people who tried MMOs were usually the type to play MMOs (lots of spare time, good internet communication skills, etc). Today, many people that try MMOs don't have the right personality to succeed in one, so far more people stop playing after a few hours/days.

Competition between games is also a major contributing factor to the higher rate of early-game drop outs - why spend a month getting my account ready to PvP when I can hop into a MOBA or FPS and instantly start PvPing?

Had a guy in a mmo asking for advice.

No problem, although we give minimal advice as new players should explore the game themselves.

Then he asked for ingame currency and top gear.

"No."

Then he asked to join the group.

"We don't know you yet, so no."

Then started raging, racial abuse, RL death threats along with it.

We're all adults so we were obviously not impressed and just laughed.

We griefed him out of his stuff (PVP mmo), and out of the MMO as well. Haven't seen him since.

^

THAT is our main experience with "new" players that start to play the MMO we are in. It is quite funny though that 99% of them all start comparing the game to WoW and that WoW is "soooo much better and challenging", yet they can't fight their way through the tutorial unless it is full of exclamation points, elves and a hand guided way from start to finish.

Abuz0r · March 2017

Games are now turn and burn. $10 a month from 2500 subscribers used to be a good small company account base. Now every studio wants to be the next Wow and their goal is millions of subs and they spend so much money on their game trying to implement every feature you've ever heard of in order to please everybody even though the feature interests conflict and just makes everyone evenly hate the game.

I'd rather there be 5000 mmos with 2500-5000 subscribers than 75 mmos with hundreds of thousands. Selection sucks and everything is the same. Everything is easy now. I agree with the OP.

TheJoda · March 2017

....this is not a new topic or debate. It's not mmos in general it's the sense of entitlement for the generation in general, it's in the workplace also.

Quizzical · March 2017

MisterZebub said:

Distopia said:

delete5230 said:

Their are mmos and their are playgrounds.

Sure their are a lot of playground liking people, we have well over 7 billion people on the planet.

But the problem is NO MMOS !!!!!............ Because we have over 7 billion people, you would think we would have at least one mmo.

I would think we have more mmo liking people than playground people. But marketing only gives us playgrounds.

Are you saying EVE isn't an MMO?

You mean spreadsheets in space?

That's massively multiplayer online spreadsheets in space to you, sir.

Flyte27 · March 2017

hatefulpeace said:

Question2 said:

I grew up playing old school MMOs like RO, which were pretty badly designed IMHO. Old school MMOs typically had few or no quests, and were mostly about grinding mobs in some random field. Any quests usually had cryptic instructions and things like quest logs were unheard of.

WoW popularized a quest based leveling system that actually told players where to go and what to do in order to level. Before that, questions like "I am level X now, where should i go to level/farm gold?" were really common.

MMOs have definately made a huge shift to making everything easier for players. Look at the amount of time needed to reach max level in a modern MMO like WOW vs something like RO for example. And you used to need to stop leveling to farm lower level mobs to get gold, since mobs for your level needed too many healing items.

Despite MMOs becoming a lot easier, I still see most newbies complaining that they are "too hard". The record breaker so far is a guy who played for less than 1 hour, did 3 or 4 quests, got to level 6 (level cap being 90) then quit because it was "too hard".

It is VERY common to see newbies complain they don't have money....but they won't do side quests for gold, sell stuff on the marketplace, or...pretty much anything. When I ask them how they want to get gold, they either say "idk" or stop responding.

Newbies want gear, but arent willing to kill stuff for materials to craft said gear because "ceebs", "too hard" or "takes too long". Nor do they have money to buy the gear from other players.

Newbies want to level, but arent willing to kill monsters to do so. Why? "Too boring to solo", "too hard", "takes too long" or "idk". One guy told me he prefered to play another MMO (might have been TERA, i dont remember) where you could apparently hit level cap in an hour or something and "it's awesome".

Newbies want to raid, but arent willing to talk to people to form a party. This is particularly puzzling. Recently, there were a bunch of newbies who wanted to do raids so I basically told them to talk to each other and gave them a list of names. 10 minutes later, one guy ran off to solo stuff and the rest were still standing around and were asking each other if anything was happening. I told them to talk to each other again. 10 minutes later, there was still no progress. Finally someone made a party to do a few raids, but they played for less than an hour before people started logging off to play other games.

That's actually better than average, because what usually happens is that people don't talk to each other and end up standing around doing nothing or they just log off to play something else.

I just had this conversation on steam with a newbie, literally minutes ago :

7:13 PM - [Redcated]: anyone want to farm seals?
7:14 PM - Question: did you try talking to the people i told you about?
7:14 PM - Question: i literally made a list of names for you
7:15 PM - [Redcated]: list of names?
7:15 PM - Question: check the steam group comments
7:17 PM - [Redcated]: aren't they in the chat?
7:17 PM - Question: not all of them
7:17 PM - Question: go check the list
7:18 PM - [Redcated]: I know most of them
7:18 PM - Question: then go message them
7:20 PM - [Redcated]: off line
7:20 PM - Question: try messaging them on steam
7:20 PM - [Redcated]: what a sad game...
7:21 PM - Question: why? most people are not in game all the time
7:21 PM - Question: but they are on steam
7:21 PM - Question: add them to friend list and message them

At this point he stopped responding. I literally made a list of players that he could party with, gave it to him, but he wont talk to them to form a party. Most newbies do the same thing. I dont get this mentality at all. Its like everyone just wants someone else to organize the party for them. If that doesnt happen, its the game's fault or something.

I dont know if anyone else sees this happen, but it just seems that most modern MMO players want everything on easy mode and arent willing to actually play the game to do anything. Im not talking about farming something for 100+ hours, but they wont even spend an hour trying to farm a rare drop before giving up. They want rare drops on every single raid or the game is broken. They want to hit level cap in an hour or something. Etc.

Thoughts?

It comes down to this. 30 years ago, we had Mario and Zelda 2, 2 of the most unforgiving games. We also had this, you better get your ass up and go to school, mow the lawn, clean your room, do the dishes, and your homework, if you don't your going to bed with no games your ass wooped and no food. Now you have, here I'll give you a call phone if you clean your room, and do your chores. If you use discipline it's child abuse. Those people want a game like wow and new age games where you could ball slap the controller like a baboon, and still win.

Why because they don't handle disappointment very well, and have the displine of a wild monkey. So giving these people a game where if you die you lose almost everything, would be like trying to give a wild baboon a pen and telling it to write the alphabet. Now if you give said baboon nice treats , and stuff like that then you could get that baboon to write the alphabet.

There is your answer. Now to prove you aren't a baboon, go beat Zelda 2 for nes, with no cheat guide, on the original nes, with no cheats. When you throw the controller in rage, make sure you have some one there to shout at you, you better not be braking that game system I just busted my ass to buy you, or your gonna get your ass wooped and no dinner. NOW GO WASH THE DISHES.

Speaking from my own experience I didn't have much discipline as a kid, but I could sit through any grind in a game. I guess it all depends on what you are doing. I could sit for hours trying to figure things out. It's why I was able to put computers together, install operating systems, and figure out computer errors in a time with little in the ay of instructions or help. That's not to say I didn't have to shovel, do the dishes sometimes, or go outside to play sports, but I usually did a poor job with those. I wanted to rush through them and get back to playing with games or computers.

Theocritus · March 2017

TheJoda said:

....this is not a new topic or debate. It's not mmos in general it's the sense of entitlement for the generation in general, it's in the workplace also.

Yes the $15 an hour to work at mcDonalds generation

Reizla · March 2017

I started with Lineage II back in 2005 as my 1st MMO and loved it! Good community, when you'd achieve something, it ACTUALLY WAS AN ACHIEVEMENT (full Blue Wolf set was it for me) and the need to cooperate/party for the 'real rare stuff' (in L2 that was mainly mats...).

So I can relate to all OP has written. Much has changed the last decade, and even more the last 5 years. MMOs are becoming all overly easy and aimed at the me-me and now-now generation. There's no real challenge anymore, nor the real need to (seek for a) party. Everything is handed down to you and automated.

It's also the main reason I'm no longer playing any MMOs at all anymore. While you are with 1000s of players on a server, I've never really felt more alone in a game (genre) than in any MMO at the moment. Hell, even most solo RPG give you more a feeling of being surrounded by people than in MMOs there days

Flyte27 · March 2017

Reizla said:

I started with Lineage II back in 2005 as my 1st MMO and loved it! Good community, when you'd achieve something, it ACTUALLY WAS AN ACHIEVEMENT (full Blue Wolf set was it for me) and the need to cooperate/party for the 'real rare stuff' (in L2 that was mainly mats...).

So I can relate to all OP has written. Much has changed the last decade, and even more the last 5 years. MMOs are becoming all overly easy and aimed at the me-me and now-now generation. There's no real challenge anymore, nor the real need to (seek for a) party. Everything is handed down to you and automated.

It's also the main reason I'm no longer playing any MMOs at all anymore. While you are with 1000s of players on a server, I've never really felt more alone in a game (genre) than in any MMO at the moment. Hell, even most solo RPG give you more a feeling of being surrounded by people than in MMOs there days

I don't think it`s the me me now now generation. It's the general public. They were the same way in the 80s and 90s in terms of not wanting to waste time on computers. The only difference is computers are faster and have the ability to be accessible to the general public for a larger profit. Those who enjoyed spending time alone on computers has always been in the minority.

kjempff · March 2017

Those players do not want to take any responsibility because if they fail something they think they are loosers instead of taking up the challenge. So they wait for someone else to carry them, and if they succeed they are winners and if not..fault displacement. If this is a generation thing or that mmo demography has changed (watered down) I cannot say exactly, probably a bit of both.

Whatever it is, as apparant here and other places where players discuss games, that there are many players who are seeking games where efford is required (and therefore feeling of accomlishment and satisfation) - And hardly any mmos provide this anymore, or only in a few specific areas.

Wizardry · March 2017

IDK if it is all the "players"it looks to me more like the developers are creating these games for 6 year olds with markers and arrows and sparklies,tons of hand holding in these games.

So are the devs that lame or are they afraid nobody will play without the hand holding?

I lasted 2 minutes in Revelation online because i was literally given a free level just for clicking the first npc "with a yellow marker on head",to me that is pathetic game design.However i have played a game for years with lots of players that enjoyed no hand holding,so i have to blame 99% of the developers,they must be making games for their 6 year old kids.

Flyte27 · March 2017

Wizardry said:

IDK if it is all the "players"it looks to me more like the developers are creating these games for 6 year olds with markers and arrows and sparklies,tons of hand holding in these games.

So are the devs that lame or are they afraid nobody will play without the hand holding?

I lasted 2 minutes in Revelation online because i was literally given a free level just for clicking the first npc "with a yellow marker on head",to me that is pathetic game design.However i have played a game for years with lots of players that enjoyed no hand holding,so i have to blame 99% of the developers,they must be making games for their 6 year old kids.

As I said the general public will waste their time on such things. That has always been the case. If people have guides, tutorials, and little grind it allows them to spend their time on other real life things. Personally, I could have lived without the general public having entered into the computer industry, but it is what it is.

Hariken · March 2017

Game devs keep adding grind and calling it content is the problem. And its not all their fault either. Gamer's are to blame where mmo's are going because of what they demand. Most people are just tired of this stuff now. But devs keep listening to the arm chair game developers that live on game boards with what they claim we all want. These people speak for them selves not the masses. Once game devs figure this out maybe we will start getting better games.

Flyte27 · March 2017

Hariken said:

Game devs keep adding grind and calling it content is the problem. And its not all their fault either. Gamer's are to blame where mmo's are going because of what they demand. Most people are just tired of this stuff now. But devs keep listening to the arm chair game developers that live on game boards with what they claim we all want. These people speak for them selves not the masses. Once game devs figure this out maybe we will start getting better games.

Are you saying that current MMOs are what old school players want? I would disagree with that. If the minority were in charge there would be no maps, quests, gps, tutorials, fast travel, etc. They seem to be listening only to the masses at this point.

Moirae · March 2017

That's a result of the way life has changed. It's made ADD and ADHD normal. Everything is in tiny bits.

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Modern MMO players want everything handed to them?

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