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Worold of darkness/ vampire MMO??
Lustmord
Member UncommonPosts: 1,114
In my opinion, it is long overdue that there is a vampire the masqurade/ WoD MMo released. Theres already sooo mch content and backround to the story. Its just a matter of putting it into a MMO.
Why hasnt this game been made yet??
Comments
well, i dare to disagree.
WW are the second worldwide rpg publishers and most of their game are pretty popular.
The problem I see here is one of implementations. All WW games, even Exalted, are very story driven and rule-lite games. Transferring them to computer can work, but making a MMorpg?
The devs should really go radical on such a title, and I mean it.
Plus implementing the 3 main books, Vampires, Werewolves and Mages makes for a really really really heavy project as all three offers plenty of possibilities and variations on the theme.
Bottom line? Would be cool, but it would be a really revolutionary MMorpg with no guarantee of success.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
What's the point of a Vampire game when everyone can be the vampire or the slayer?
Kind of makes the game lose the mystique about vampires, wouldn't it?
The reason why Vampire SRPG's can work is because it makes you feel one of a kind, instead of a mindless vampire face like the other 500,000 of you that plague the game world.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
My idea for how such a game would work, would be that no one starts up as a vampire orwerewolf or anything. You start up as just a normal guy in the world of darkness. You go out shopping make up, leather and chains at day, and go to the local club and dance the night away to the tunes of bands like Joy Division, My Dying Bride and Ministry at sunset, that is, if you dont get mugged by some stupid gang on the way.
And the gm's or admins play the local otherworldy society, and they pick what players may become Embraced (turned into a vampire, for those of you that missed out of your goth period), that would be players who seem like they would be up to the task, and has managed to stand out like serious, dedicated players, and not just some kid who want to kill everyone with their vampiric powers. And if any of the players want to embrace anyone, they would have to ask the Prince for permission, otherwise they would be in for a world of trouble, and then the prince gets to decide if the player is allowed to embrace the one he chooses. And from there on, the world can evolve. Anyone pissed of on the vampires and want to take them on? He has to get in with the church, and it would be pretty much the same business there (you can of course kill vampires without the churches blessing, but it never hurts to have some support behind you). And after a while, the players get to take over some of the roles of the gm's.
What do you think? Sounds like a good idea, or a shallow idea full of flaws?
i'd love a vampire MMO. i made a post on here ages ago asking whether there were any and if anyone would play one, and pretty much everyone in the thread said they'd love to play one.
tbh i think its long overdue, and i don't think it'll be long before games companies realise the old fantasy theme running in the majority of current MMO's is tired. a well made vampire/underworldy type MMORPG could be an absolute killer.
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Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde
it sounds okay, although in practice it wouldnt' work. having GM's deciding who would become a vampire would take up massive, massive amounts of resources and take time away from important things such as customer support. plus, i know i wouldn't wanna play a vampire game where i had to be asked by someone else if i'd like to become a vampire, i'd rather it be my choice really.
i'm not saying i think becomming or indeed being a vampire should be a walk in the park, i'm all for challenging/rewarding gameplay, however i just can't see many people playing if they have to spend their time doing things they don't really want to be doing (shopping and clubbing in a game).
i agree though, that a unique approach should be taken to a vampire MMO. no linear character creation, no choose a race/class, go! it should be more of a 'start with a normal person' then somehow work your way to becomming either a vampire, warewolf or vampire/warewolf hunter. i do think it's also a good idea to let the player community do most of the work, if i took one thing away from old skool UO it was a sense of online societies being awesomely fun in MMORPGS. i think the use of NPC's should be kept to a minimum. of course an element of PVE should exist, however i think it should be something like.... human NPC's are there for vampires to feed off. and warewolves to massacre for fun. however of course the hunters will want to protect the NPC's from this kinda carnage, so somehow a quest system could be worked around that basis.. i think quests/pve in the game should automatically draw the factions together and pit them against eachother from start to end. if people want to purely PVE, the game isn't for them and they can look elsewhere! the game should be dark and twisted imho.
Now you see, I've read all of Christine Feehan's books on her DARK series, which has vampires, immortals, vampire seekers, people with psychic abilities in one form or another, and then there are people who are wanting to do experiments on them, and just regular people caught up into it.
I would like to see a combination of what she did with the Carpanthian Series myself. Heck, I might even play the game if the graphics were realistic, and the storyline truth back to the Vllad timeline.
The question is, why hasn't this been researched instead of going just by the books of the Mas?
I just bought Dark Demon by her that just came out.
Basically the concept is: 1. Immortals once were human but bit by vampires and they could see no color until they found their mates (psychic women in one form or another - clairvoyants, healers, etc)
But they had to fight off people such as vampires who wanted to become Immortals, people who hated anything like Vampires or Immortals, who also sought out the Psychics so they could try and lure in the Vampires to kill. Then there were the scientists who wanted to explore the world of immortality and bunched them all together anyways. Then the Vampires who just killed to kill.
The immortals would use blood banks and hide in that world without people knowing they were who they were, but didn't kill people for their needs. They couldn't go into the light because it would kill them, but fought the demons in them that wanted them to turn into Vampires and of course, their homes were well protected with spells of who tried to entered, who were there inside, and they had normal people who cared for their homes they could trust so that the homes that were visited outside would be under the disquise of not being a house that held them. But yet, there were secret door ways not seen by the normal eye that led to their chambers deep under the earth into the soil of their lair. (I highly suggest to understand what I'm talking about to read the series, which is quite extensive)
She goes back into alot of history of who they were, who they are, who the enemies are, and who are friends, as well as an excellent background taken from Vllad's time in the Carpanthian Mountains.
Now, if the World of Darkness, or any Vampire MMO followed this theme, I think you could have a masterpiece.
One psychic was a mechanic, another a magician, another was a healer..the tapping of this could be endless and enjoyable choices for people who want more than a game bent on biting necks. *laughs*
You actually could have them travel to cities, do events (one group of immortals were a popular band over time that continued to try to hide they never aged).
I'm very interested if this type of game came into existance.
This is her website:
http://www.christinefeehan.com/
Of course, the ghostwalkers and the leopard series was excellent as well. Avoid the Drake series..I was most disappointed with that writing, not as good as the others I've listed.
~| UO * TSO * DAoC * WoW |~
Men are like fine wine.
Be sure to stomp on some of them, leave them in the dark,
and wait until they've matured enough to want to have dinner with them. *winks*
This is why I wouldn't want to see a game made similar to Underworld or V:TR or whatever. I hate the way vampires are portrayed in books and film. I just have never been impressed or scared by the cheesy goth vampires found in books or movies. Its one of the few monsters found in every culture on the planet and yet since that hack Stoker wrote his book (which wasn't even his best out of a load of bad stories) every representation has been modeled after his Dracula.
I'm not saying I haven't enjoyed any of the movies, usually the slightly 'off' stories or movies (Near Dark and I am Legend to name two), I just don't really consider the way they get passed off in media as scary or even original. Any game made following that theme would be nothing but a PvP fest (which may be what enthralls some) and would essentially be like any other game on the market in a different skin and mislabled Horror.
Vampires from folklore were much darker, more dangerous, and in no way sexy. Think Night of the Living Dead only the dead don't shamble, are not nearly so singled-minded, and you sure as hell wouldn't want to kiss one.
And yes, I do realise I am in the minority in thinking this, but I just would rather see any game that has vampires in it more... horror... than anything based on Rice, or WW, or whatever. Not cheesy angst driven goth romance with PvP.
___________~____________
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde
Do you really think that all vampire stories out there are cheesey romantic goth type books?
I just bought Christine Feehan's recent book Dark Demon
http://www.christinefeehan.com/dark_demon/chapter1.html
Where do you see cheese in just the small exerpt of this?
I'm actually looking forward to seeing how they bring into it dragonseekers as well which is different slightly than her past novels.
The point I'm making is, not all vampire games have to be all anne rice (yes, keep your hats on, I read one of her books), nor underworld, but there has to be some type of , if you will over look the pun, 'meat' to it of the storyline.
Even life as we live it isn't just made out in black and white, there are twists and turns, and even the unseen to it.
Make the game believable, and you will have followers. Make it slice and dice, and it gets old after awhile.
~| UO * TSO * DAoC * WoW |~
Men are like fine wine.
Be sure to stomp on some of them, leave them in the dark,
and wait until they've matured enough to want to have dinner with them. *winks*
I meant no offense, and no, I don't believe all vampire stories (or whatever) to be romance. As you suggested I read chapter 1 of the book you've plugged twice... Cheese? No, cliche with a hint of Vampire Hunter D? Yes. But that's my opinion.
I love horror. Books, movies, games, you name it I either own it or have played/watched/read it. I am very picky when it comes to horror and have high expectations. Does the story you mentioned have romance? Don't know, though the characters seem to be lusty for sure. It may not be romance per se, but it is still romantic. I'm bored with that and don't see much difference between that and many other games (or other media) out there.
I am not looking for slice and dice and never suggested as much. Quite the opposite actually. I don't like PvP for the sake of pvp; its boring and what fps deathmatch games were designed for, and would rather play an original game with depth to the story and combat/pvp that fits the theme and story of the game. White Wolf and the vast majority of vampire themed media don't do it for me.
___________~____________
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde
btw... have you checked out The Historian by Elizabeth Kostova? i'm only around 200 pages in, but it is a rather interesting read so far. it is also her debut novel.
and a bit back on topic. i played Vampire The Masquerade - Bloodlines. and really enjoyed it. i really do feel a vamp MMO would be a wonderful addition as long as they get it done right.
perhaps everyone starting out as human and not vampires.
well i cannot think straight at the moment... i've a bloody headache. so i'm cutting this semi short.
cheers for now!
-t
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Now Playing:
EQ2
Prior Games (in no order):
SWG, L2, RO, PT, ROSE, CoH/CoV, AO, UO, EVE, WoW and a bunch of others.
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Im all for it. They could add other factions too like zombies, werewolves, etc.
Ive been waiting on a Horror MMO for a long time
I agree, I would give anything to see a good horror mmo. All I'm saying is I'd like to see something other than WoD. Although, the idea of starting out as human would be interesting.
One problem that's been mentioned in similar threads is that regardless of the setting any horror mmo is going to have to be a mature game. I'm not necessarily referring to blood or gore either. And I hate to say it, but I don't see a mature game being successful right now. AoC is supposed to be, but it also is a licensed game and none of those have done well. Mass market maturity would force any horror mmo to be at least pg-13 and I am tired of watered down horror.
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Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde
Generally speaking I do not think existing properties can be very well transferred to an MMO genere. Especially not existing RPG liscences where there are a lot of expectations involving the mechanics. What works and is balanced for a paper and pencil game is not nessicarly going to work or be fun in a computer game.
That said, I think a horror themed game could be made to work, but it would be best done by staying away from WoD or any existing setting or mechanics.
If I was developing one I would probably do something similar to WoW except set in disintergrated version of thr modern world. I would say that there was some great apocolypse where the gates of hell were opened or whatever and society was brought to it's knees. I'd have one faction full of human survivors, and another faction full of vampires and werewolves and ghouls and such that were in hiding but now have the oppertunity to come out and dominate with the general fall of society. Needless to say the two factions hate each other and want to destroy each other, and both are menaced by the supernatural apocolypse and the forces it has brought to bear.
I'd have most PVP taking place in battlegrounds, and probably a classless system where skills would advance as you use them as opposed to a "level" for the humans, and a class based 'clan' type system for the Vampires and supernatural beings.
I'd try and set up PVP so the Vampires and such tend to be more powerful with their straight attacks and such, but suffer a lot of weaknesses that can be exploited in PVP. For example being able to "Fear" them by using crosses and other horror movie traditions. That way in PVP a battle between the factions would flow sort of like a horror movie as opposed to being just a hacking/spell throwing contest although there would be plenty of that.
I'd probably have the bad guys base their powers on things like drinking blood or eating fallen opponents to gain 'spell points' to use their abillities similar to WoD, humans on the other hand would use regular mana and their 'spells' would depend on how people played. Guys who did quests and such as a good guy would build up a faith attribute/bar that would let them do holy magic, and the meaner anti-heroes would develop darker black magic with the fireballs and such. All characters could try and do both kinds, but the strength of spells would depend on how they played and what desicians they made (it would come from questing and the dialogue options would give choices buffing one attribute or the other).
Just some simple ideas, not really a fully fleshed out MMORPG idea, but that is kind of how I'd try and do it if I had millions of dollars to invest in producing a horror MMO.
>>>----Therumancer--->
LOL No offense, but you first say basing a game on WoD wouldn't "be very well transferred to an MMO genere" then propose and idea that smacks of the WoD: Gehenna books. On top of that saying it should be similar to WoW? I can respect your opinion, but I just don't see it being enjoyable mixing those two games. Keep in mind I'm biased. Especially where it concerns PnP rpgs. I prefer games like CoC and Unkown Armies.
I do agree that using existing rpgs as the basis, such as DDO, leads to problems with hardcore fans nit picking it to death. At least as far as mmo's are concerned seeing as the single player games do fine.
I had an idea though. If a horror game had to have the obligatory vampires vs werewolves vs humans et all why not go as campy and cliche as possible? Take all the bad steroetypes from horror movies and throw them into a game? Kind of like a Scary Movie parody with over the top gameplay similar to CoH/CoV. Campy can be just as fun in horror as gore or psychological screws.
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Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde
Personally I'd rather see an MMO based on Kult.
The real problem with any horror MMO is that the players know the deal when they log on. With movies and books you can allude to what's happening in the story without giving away what's really going on. Think about the trailers for Hostel or Last House on the Left.
This problem would ten times worse in a WoD MMO. I've been on WoD MUDs and they were all RP intensive and required character approval by the admin. There is no way to enforce RP on an MMO and doing so would go against the mass market thinking behind MMO production. Enforcing RP will limit the number of possible subscribers and we just can't have that!
Horror is an emotion first and a genre second. This is why the Silent Hill series is still the most traumatizing survival horror series ever made. There is no attempt to explain the whole situation to the player and that helps keep the game disturbing long after you finish the game.
How do you do something like that in an MMO?
P.S. Resident Evil wasn't scary, it was campy and downright funny at times. And yes, that includes RE4!!
You know what's funny, I only have a passing familiarity with WoD and have no real idea what the Gehenna thing is. To be honest my suggestion ws more me thinking of end-of-the world zombie movie cliques as a justification to get the game going and to allow a wide variety of opponents. Besides which trying to make a game like this in the real world where it's all supposed to be "secret" kind of boggles the mind when it comes to an MMO, I have enough problems in PnP RPGs with "secret horror" games figuring out why creatures aren't going at it 24/7 in the midst of times square especially if all the "good guys" are creatures too. Most of the justifications for "hiding among the herd" seem weak when you start getting into the meat and potatoes of what most of the critters in these games do.
As far as enforcing RP and such goes, I expect it will happen one day, but like with MUDs it will take a while. Eventually I figure there will be so many MMOs that companies will do anything for a gimmick to draw players, and reducing the profit to have a staff of full time GMs who enforce RP (and games based around it) will EVENTUALLY be something someone will try in the long run. We're just not to that point yet.
As far as horror goes, well... differant people have differant opinions. The idea is probably more along the lines of "dark adventure with gore" or "modern fantasy" than horror. To be honest by definition fear is an uncomfortable emotion and to actually push those buttons on people tends to drive them away. For example a girl who is terrified of rape is not exactly going to be happy if she's subjected to it even vicariously through a game. Ditto for certain people with hang ups about satanism and similar things.
As a result most horror tends to be rather generic "pornography of violence" (oftentimes mixed with regular sex and more than a little femjep). You can't truely push people's buttons in the media as that leads to people being offended which leads to a loss of revenue, etc...
This is why horror movies have gotten rather generic, and it's mostly about buckets of gore and cheap theatrical tricks to get people to jump. Even "shocking" movies like Hostel are actually pretty tame even within their genere, that movie was a joke compared to some other horror movies I've seen. A few fingers being cut off was nothing compared to the knife-point torture scene in "Evil Dead Trap" (not to be confused with the Bruce Campbell movies, this is a Japanese horror flick) so even the violence is played down.
I personally never found "Silent Hill" to be especially impressive. A bunch of horrible stuff happening with no explanation doesn't really freak me out in a game or movie, it just usually strikes me as being bad writing (let's do freaky stuff and pretend it should make sense when even WE don't know why it's going on). But then again I just played the first one a bit, maybe they got better. To be frank I thought it had potential with the guy being stabbed to death by the flayed children in the dream sequence at the beginning and from that point on (as far as I played) it was a bit disappointing, it just seemed like a harder version of Resident Evil (as far as the fighting went with my limited reflexes) with a more varied rogues gallery.
Strangely though I found Fatal Frame to be more entertaining for some reason. Not so much because it was scary, but I thought it was a rather differant take on the genere and I liked the way how a lot of the settings were rendered so you could see them both normally (walking around) and through the camera (even when you weren't fighting).
When it comes to an MMO generally speaking people are going to expect buckets of gore and sex (if a company had the guts to deliver the latter) and to kill nasty things left and right. The way I suggest it allows both the humaneocentric and the monstercentric Annie-Rice style "so goth to be dead" crowd to find something to enjoy in the game.
It's just a theory though, I don't think more cereberal "horror" is really possible. I mean trying to do CoC as a MMO would be an exercise in futility, although it might be fun to see a bunch of people summoning Ry'leth as an endgame zone and then having their guild power-camp Great Cthulhu in shifts. We could probably attach wires to old HP's grave and solve the energy crisis by harnessing his rotations.
>>>----Therumancer--->
To be honest, there's nothing wrong with having only a passing familiarity with WoD. I wish my experience could be only passing, but I game with people that enjoy it so... enh what can you do?
You do make a valid point in that an integral part of horror is not knowing what's around the next corner. I disagree that violence or sex is needed though. Even to mass market a game. Good horror films don't need it. Gore doesn't scare it sickens. And for that matter shock is temporary.
I don't think any kind of enforced rp is necessary though. That's something gamers themselves should bring to a game, an immersion factor that many don't see the need for to play a game. The simple fact that there are graphics means you have to go to extra lengths to design something that has potential to scare and makes people want to rp. Using atmosphere created through graphics and imaginative use of audio combined with an environment that is effected by a players actions would go a long way to helping bring back roleplaying to video games. Regardless of genre. The feeling that nothing a character does ingame affects the game world is what dilutes any game experience and in a horror themed game that is vital. As far as mmos are concerned.
Another problem with something like this is that at its roots horror is not about combat. It's investigation; at the end of which there is a climactic battle between hero and villain. Most gamers don't have the patience for that. And while I'm all for solving the energy crisis, that's why I doubt HPL would have to worry. CoC is still more about investigation than combat. I seriously doubt there will ever be a game that is essentially WoW or EQ2 with a CoC setting.
Something we can be grateful for at least.
However, I do think it's possible to combine elements to make a good horror game. First would be using graphics and audio to set an appropriate atmosphere. Make the graphics repulsive and the sounds warped. I don't mean gore either. In Lovecraft's stories there were odd angles, shadows that moved where they shouldn't, and sounds that whispered in and out of perception. Make the game's quests a mixture of non-combat and combat. DAoC has rp servers where you have to use spatial chat to talk to some npcs. That could be used effectively. Build on the feeling of hopelessness at mid to near end game levels, but leave that little flickering light at the end of the tunnel to encourage forward progress. The next part would make it a next gen game and something I hope to see in the future: Use Heuristic AI for all npcs and mobs. Maybe not possible now realistically (in MMO terms), but would be fun. Especially if combined with an inventive use of permadeath.
Making horror is a tightrope walk with masses of zombies waiting beneath to tear you apart. And every zombie is either a hater or a fanboi. (Metaphor not an insult.)
Off topic, I wouldn't judge SH harshly. It's meant to be story and idea driven not gore or shock value. There are better horror games though, but SH's story is excellent. And Evil Dead Trap was just gore, poorly borrowed gore at that. But then what scares people is unique to each person. Sometimes leaving more to the imagination has better affect to a larger audience as it makes the experience more personal. Unforunately mass market appeal and the growing general desire to be lead by the nose like sheep has led to the watering down of horror. Like listening to top 40 radio. It's that kind of thinking that leads to remakes of Near Dark and House of Wax or puts Master P in Saw 3
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Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde
It was mostly the monsters that were freaky in Silent Hill. Also the sense that something is happening at random without any "why" tends to put people on edge since we generally try to impose order on the universe and chaos scares us.
If you want to experience cutting edge horror though, you need to step away from the movie theater and mainstream book publishers. I recently read a collection of flash fiction by Michael A Arnzen titled "100 Jolts" that runs from deeply disturbing to gleefully gory and campy. If you want some genuine scares you're going to have to check out the indie press and horror anthologies. Raw Dog Screaming Press, Just about any of the books at Shocklines, Necro Publications,Dark Highways, Subterranean Press, all of these publishers make stuff that is way creepier than any horror movie or Steven King novel.
Trying to make a game that is as disturbing as the tales of Joe R. Lansdale or David J. Schow is almost impossible. It can probably be done, but I wouldn't want to be the person expected to do it. I don't see it as being possible in an MMO.