Yup, or it is or it isn't, my point lies a lot on this silly tracker on things manipulated and twisted as a promise when there clearly wasn't one.
The extreme point he made is ridiculous, when there is simply both sides of the spectrum, what was promised and confirmed, this is pretty much the pitched game, they haven't been talking anything mostly about features not confirmed, in fact on they have confirmed a number of features instead, in highlight PG Planets and all the bits that are coming with it like more focused survival mechanics.
It is not a case of "it is or it isn't" at all. Why do you think they have all sorts of rules about what you are allowed to imply when advertising? These sort of things are not a binary situation.
If someone says 'we would like, maybe, our intention is' or some other caveated comment then clearly it cannot be taken as a promise but there are plenty of examples where this occurs without any caveats. You seem to be hanging on one particular example as though it speaks for everything written on this silly website.
If someone says 'we would like, maybe, our intention is' or some other caveated comment then clearly it cannot be taken as a promise but there are plenty of examples where this occurs without any caveats. You seem to be hanging on one particular example as though it speaks for everything written on this silly website.
I'm not denying that that's why I said both sides of the spectrum, what they put simply as a feature that is coming, and the ones that face mentions but do not get confirmed.
I'd prefer if you to not try to extremize the points I make because If you are honest for a second you'll know that my original point was towards taking into consideration what they have and haven't confirmed when we're to call something a promise.
I'd prefer if you to not try to extremize the points I make because If you are honest for a second you'll know that my original point was towards taking into consideration what they have and haven't confirmed when we're to call something a promise.
I'm happy to try this if you are but if I'm honest I do find you to be very extreme about what is acceptable for CIG to get up to when it comes to Star Citizen. My original point was that there's conflicting information and that could easily have led to someone getting it wrong, granted it is the goons but even still...
@Erillion Maybe a couple of days would be acceptable for them to change things, whoever maintains it could be at school, work or whatever.
I did contest some points, the Bengal put under Not Started. The Oculus being listed as broken when it is claimed VR (what englobes it) is to be worked on still. The build their own mocap studio put on broken when they have it and we already saw it on reports showing their mocap for new animations. The wrong planetside module on the 3.0 patch. Capture Backers faces for ingame Characters, that was not a promise. And the bit about the Austin studio 11M stretch goal being compromised when it was met.
On the Bengal bit, not only they haven't moved it from Note Started, they add a source from 2013 about Bengal's concept, ignoring there was even one ATV dedicated to the Bengal showing it off...
There was a refusal to change anything, I've also sent even the 11m goal, the Austin Office opened Feb 2013, a stretch goal to expand it was added in June 2013. The expanded Austin Studio comes online at Dec 2013 ( http://i.imgur.com/ZPrqrwo.jpg ), yet is still listed as compromised. And the source given is one thread on the forums discussing the rumors the Austin studio would shut down...
Also, the Mining on 3.0, clearly mentioned on their own source on CR's they are trying to get basic mining as part of 3.0, ignoring that, it's still put as a promise...
@rpmcmurphy they did update the list yesterday, and they read what I sent because the Bengal point was backed by one silly 2013 source to support it is not started, and the co-op in SQ42 was added as a broken promise.
Being that they put :getout: on the button to contest anything, it would be expectable...
So yeah, it's showing they are not caring for truthful and accurate information, without objectivity, as Erillion said, this becomes a propaganda tool meant for an anti-sc purpose that would be nothing but fair to ask @MikeB to stop endorsing the legitimacy of this tool by keeping this pinned.
List has been updated yesterday. So its not a matter of having no time to update. This is a deliberate choice to not change it, despite evidence to the contrary that points are wrong.
Okay, it was just a suggestion as I was unaware of it having been updated. It's pretty strange that so much attention is being given to this site anyway. In my opinion people should be more concerned about the Hello Kitty art appropriation not some silly goon website...
List has been updated yesterday. So its not a matter of having no time to update. This is a deliberate choice to not change it, despite evidence to the contrary that points are wrong.
Okay, it was just a suggestion as I was unaware of it having been updated. It's pretty strange that so much attention is being given to this site anyway. In my opinion people should be more concerned about the Hello Kitty art appropriation not some silly goon website...
For me it's not about the goon site or SC. It's about they sticked an obviously biased source and have done nothing about it. If it was Trion game I bet this would have played out differently.
For me it's not about the goon site or SC. It's about they sticked an obviously biased source and have done nothing about it. If it was Trion game I bet this would have played out differently.
To be fair all sources are pretty heavily biased. If it was INN or Relay (or whatever they're called now) waxing lyrical about the fantastical world of Star Citizen I doubt people would be arguing for the veracity of the claims and demanding its withdrawal, they would more than likely be scoffing at those trying to point out the obvious falsities contained in such a piece.
The way it is isn't it.
I'd like to see whether the site does get updated with more correct information where it is currently wrong, perhaps the mining one was simply further down the list of changes, it just seems a bit early and a bit too judgemental for people to demand its retraction because of some goon link or whatever it is.
To be fair all sources are pretty heavily biased. If it was INN or Relay (or whatever they're called now) waxing lyrical about the fantastical world of Star Citizen I doubt people would be arguing for the veracity of the claims and demanding its withdrawal, they would more than likely be scoffing at those trying to point out the obvious falsities contained in such a piece.
That's such a passive defense of something you know is intentionally twisting things to fit a narrative to the point it's clearly untruthful.
You go to the relay website, like the last ATV: https://relay.sc/transcript/around-the-verse-2 And what you see is simply a translation of what was said to text, and then resuming it by bullet points. I think comparing both is one insult to the amount and work and effort it takes to translate video to text word-by-word with such accuracy.
For me it's not about the goon site or SC. It's about they sticked an obviously biased source and have done nothing about it. If it was Trion game I bet this would have played out differently.
To be fair all sources are pretty heavily biased. If it was INN or Relay (or whatever they're called now) waxing lyrical about the fantastical world of Star Citizen I doubt people would be arguing for the veracity of the claims and demanding its withdrawal, they would more than likely be scoffing at those trying to point out the obvious falsities contained in such a piece.
The way it is isn't it.
I'd like to see whether the site does get updated with more correct information where it is currently wrong, perhaps the mining one was simply further down the list of changes, it just seems a bit early and a bit too judgemental for people to demand its retraction because of some goon link or whatever it is.
I don't think it's being too judgemental when you can click one time and find the source is obviously anti SC. Just click the name at the bottom who is responsible for maintaining the page.
I would expect for articles that are "pro" a game to be stickied for reference regardless of the game. I find it highly unusual that an article that is obviously "anti" to be stickied.
That's such a passive defense of something you know is intentionally twisting things to fit a narrative.
You go to the relay website, like the last ATV: https://relay.sc/transcript/around-the-verse-2 And what you see is simply a translation of what was said to text, and then resuming it by bullet points.
Comparing both for me is one insult to the amount and work and effort it takes to translate video to text word-by-word.
I see your attempt at not turning things into extremes didn't last very long... /sigh
I am simply arguing for a bit of tolerance before drawing conclusions about the intention of this site. While the person running it is associated with the goons so is someone like Scott Manley, it doesn't mean that every act they make is to increase the goon's world domination.
There were plently of examples where INN would convert things said into something else, or they might make things that sounded possible to be as though they were definite.
I am simply arguing for a bit of tolerance before drawing conclusions about the intention of this site. While the person running it is associated with the goons so is someone like Scott Manley, it doesn't mean that every act they make is to increase the goon's world domination.
There were plently of examples where INN would convert things said into something else, or they might make things that sounded possible to be as though they were definit
The point would be, even with INN and now Relay, they are not "pinned" sources of information, endorsed by CIG.
What he said just now is not wrong, when you visit any game forum here you expect official information to be pinned/highlighted instead, that is obviously always "pro game", never things like this.
Any more questions about the bias of this source and of those that maintain this list? Or why they maintain this list? After years of anti Star Citizen propaganda coming from these sources....
Knowing the goons, now that the list has gained some tracktion they will either improve on it, or they will make it into a complete joke.
Give it a week and we can see if it merrits a de-sticky. Until then, deal with it. While it might be off here and there, it seems fairly valid for the majority of it.
I am simply arguing for a bit of tolerance before drawing conclusions about the intention of this site. While the person running it is associated with the goons so is someone like Scott Manley, it doesn't mean that every act they make is to increase the goon's world domination.
There were plently of examples where INN would convert things said into something else, or they might make things that sounded possible to be as though they were definite
The point would be, even with INN and now Relay, they are not "pinned" sources of information, endorsed by CIG.
What he said just now is not wrong, when you visit any game forum here you expect official information to be pinned/highlighted instead, with that obviously "pro game", never things like this.
Well crowdfunding milestones isn't a topic endorsed by CIG, referrals and special offers isn't a topic endorsed by CIG. They're just fan collations much the same way this chart is.
Anyway, just because it's not done normally doesn't mean it can't start
@Erillion Given that it's the goons who never expect (let alone want) to be taken seriously I think the fact that they put Derek's name in the thread title is as much as piss take as anything. They know the effect it has on the faithful and the /r/ds guys.
@Erillion Given that it's the goons who never expect (let alone want) to be taken seriously >>>
That is a classic misinterpretation of Goon motives. In my experience - you are wrong (w.r.t. to that topic). This is based on years of personal knowledge in that area coming from EVE - from both sides of the coin.
They're just fan collations much the same way this chart is.
"fan"... hmm .. .err. ... ..o.k... 404! 404!!!!
hfztt said: While it might be off here and there, it seems fairly valid for the majority of it
It's easy to manipulate it to transmit a negative narrative, as it already shows... Just place a ton of things have not been completed and ignore things that have been leaving them out. Just pick things to leave in and out as you wish and you'll be able to transmit any message you want. This just reminded me of Fox News lol
Why doesn't @BillMurphy also pin Derek Smart's blog? If the standard for such endorsement has been setup, better go the full way with it...
That is a classic misinterpretation of Goon motives. In my experience - you are wrong (w.r.t. to that topic).
This is based on years of personal knowledge in that area coming from EVE - from both sides of the coin.
Have fun
I can't say I agree, in EVE the top guys are pretty cutthroat and have clear goals but the average goon is just out to see the world burn. This is based on years of personal knowledge in that area coming from EVE - from both sides of the coin.
Really? Cause max said they didn't have sq42 drop in drop out listed as a broken promise and I see it listed now. So someone is updating the list
Yeah, it was updated, but what was contested was ignored. The Bengal bit is the obvious one, not moving it from Not Started, but adding a source from 2013 (when it was a concept) to backup the Not Started status.
Comments
It is not a case of "it is or it isn't" at all. Why do you think they have all sorts of rules about what you are allowed to imply when advertising? These sort of things are not a binary situation.
If someone says 'we would like, maybe, our intention is' or some other caveated comment then clearly it cannot be taken as a promise but there are plenty of examples where this occurs without any caveats. You seem to be hanging on one particular example as though it speaks for everything written on this silly website.
I'd prefer if you to not try to extremize the points I make because If you are honest for a second you'll know that my original point was towards taking into consideration what they have and haven't confirmed when we're to call something a promise.
A propaganda tool then.
In my opinion should not be stickied.
Have fun
I'm happy to try this if you are but if I'm honest I do find you to be very extreme about what is acceptable for CIG to get up to when it comes to Star Citizen.
My original point was that there's conflicting information and that could easily have led to someone getting it wrong, granted it is the goons but even still...
@Erillion Maybe a couple of days would be acceptable for them to change things, whoever maintains it could be at school, work or whatever.
I did contest some points, the Bengal put under Not Started. The Oculus being listed as broken when it is claimed VR (what englobes it) is to be worked on still. The build their own mocap studio put on broken when they have it and we already saw it on reports showing their mocap for new animations. The wrong planetside module on the 3.0 patch. Capture Backers faces for ingame Characters, that was not a promise. And the bit about the Austin studio 11M stretch goal being compromised when it was met.
On the Bengal bit, not only they haven't moved it from Note Started, they add a source from 2013 about Bengal's concept, ignoring there was even one ATV dedicated to the Bengal showing it off...
There was a refusal to change anything, I've also sent even the 11m goal, the Austin Office opened Feb 2013, a stretch goal to expand it was added in June 2013. The expanded Austin Studio comes online at Dec 2013 ( http://i.imgur.com/ZPrqrwo.jpg ), yet is still listed as compromised. And the source given is one thread on the forums discussing the rumors the Austin studio would shut down...
Also, the Mining on 3.0, clearly mentioned on their own source on CR's they are trying to get basic mining as part of 3.0, ignoring that, it's still put as a promise...
@rpmcmurphy they did update the list yesterday, and they read what I sent because the Bengal point was backed by one silly 2013 source to support it is not started, and the co-op in SQ42 was added as a broken promise.
Being that they put :getout: on the button to contest anything, it would be expectable...
So yeah, it's showing they are not caring for truthful and accurate information, without objectivity, as Erillion said, this becomes a propaganda tool meant for an anti-sc purpose that would be nothing but fair to ask @MikeB to stop endorsing the legitimacy of this tool by keeping this pinned.
List has been updated yesterday. So its not a matter of having no time to update.
This is a deliberate choice to not change it, despite evidence to the contrary that points are wrong.
Go to Youtube .. type Star Citizen Bengal Carrier ... several videos about work in progress.
Listed as: "Not started."
As Roboute Guilliman would say:
Theoretical: List is an intentional propaganda tool.
Practical: Do not sticky.
Have fun
PS:
Let me show you how "Not started" looks like (in a 2016 WIP video):
None of my posts have been stickied by the moderators.
There are only two sticky posts ... the OP being a moderator.
Have fun
For me it's not about the goon site or SC. It's about they sticked an obviously biased source and have done nothing about it. If it was Trion game I bet this would have played out differently.
To be fair all sources are pretty heavily biased. If it was INN or Relay (or whatever they're called now) waxing lyrical about the fantastical world of Star Citizen I doubt people would be arguing for the veracity of the claims and demanding its withdrawal, they would more than likely be scoffing at those trying to point out the obvious falsities contained in such a piece.
The way it is isn't it.
I'd like to see whether the site does get updated with more correct information where it is currently wrong, perhaps the mining one was simply further down the list of changes, it just seems a bit early and a bit too judgemental for people to demand its retraction because of some goon link or whatever it is.
You go to the relay website, like the last ATV: https://relay.sc/transcript/around-the-verse-2
And what you see is simply a translation of what was said to text, and then resuming it by bullet points. I think comparing both is one insult to the amount and work and effort it takes to translate video to text word-by-word with such accuracy.
I would expect for articles that are "pro" a game to be stickied for reference regardless of the game. I find it highly unusual that an article that is obviously "anti" to be stickied.
I see your attempt at not turning things into extremes didn't last very long... /sigh
I am simply arguing for a bit of tolerance before drawing conclusions about the intention of this site. While the person running it is associated with the goons so is someone like Scott Manley, it doesn't mean that every act they make is to increase the goon's world domination.
There were plently of examples where INN would convert things said into something else, or they might make things that sounded possible to be as though they were definite.
What he said just now is not wrong, when you visit any game forum here you expect official information to be pinned/highlighted instead, that is obviously always "pro game", never things like this.
Click the "About Us" button of this list mentioned by the OP.
Result: Maintained by SomethingAwful Goons
Click THAT and you get
Games › Derek Smart's Home for Wayward Space Sims
Any more questions about the bias of this source and of those that maintain this list? Or why they maintain this list? After years of anti Star Citizen propaganda coming from these sources....
Have fun
Give it a week and we can see if it merrits a de-sticky. Until then, deal with it. While it might be off here and there, it seems fairly valid for the majority of it.
Well crowdfunding milestones isn't a topic endorsed by CIG, referrals and special offers isn't a topic endorsed by CIG. They're just fan collations much the same way this chart is.
Anyway, just because it's not done normally doesn't mean it can't start
@Erillion
Given that it's the goons who never expect (let alone want) to be taken seriously I think the fact that they put Derek's name in the thread title is as much as piss take as anything. They know the effect it has on the faithful and the /r/ds guys.
I have a different opinion about that.
And did something about it. And contested their classification. So far - no reaction.
Have fun
Given that it's the goons who never expect (let alone want) to be taken seriously
>>>
That is a classic misinterpretation of Goon motives. In my experience - you are wrong (w.r.t. to that topic).
This is based on years of personal knowledge in that area coming from EVE - from both sides of the coin.
Have fun
It's easy to manipulate it to transmit a negative narrative, as it already shows... Just place a ton of things have not been completed and ignore things that have been leaving them out. Just pick things to leave in and out as you wish and you'll be able to transmit any message you want. This just reminded me of Fox News lol
Why doesn't @BillMurphy also pin Derek Smart's blog? If the standard for such endorsement has been setup, better go the full way with it...
I can't say I agree, in EVE the top guys are pretty cutthroat and have clear goals but the average goon is just out to see the world burn. This is based on years of personal knowledge in that area coming from EVE - from both sides of the coin.
Really? Cause max said they didn't have sq42 drop in drop out listed as a broken promise and I see it listed now. So someone is updating the list
Seems the :getout: button is for real lol