Women have been playing games since the days of bulletin-board fiction threads. We've managed to become involved in every major title published...we thrive, we don't merely exist. Many of us have gone on to become quite powerful in the realm of MMO creation...so we're involved from the ground up on games like EQ2, WoW, SWG, CoH/CoV, and the upcoming Hero's Journey.
While we are still a minority in terms of players, our development influences are felt across the board in all the major online titles: we are in graphic design, level design, game art, game system coding, management, production, and senior corporate positions as well as consumer relations. We're already thinking like women while simultaneously designing great games for everybody.
The area in which women are neglected is marketing. Ads featuring a scantily-clad wood nymph with a beckoning, sly smile won't work on a woman the way it works on a man. We buy the box anyway since the game is inside it, but we know very well that the marketing isn't aimed at us at all. Frankly, that scantily-clad wood nymph may well have been conceptualized by a female and drawn by a female, and does not necessarily put us off the way some people may think: once we get to the installation disk, the package means very little. We probably don't want the collectible figurine as much as we'd want a real-life replica of that +100 to strength bracelet <g> but again, it illustrates the fact that women will buy a great game in spite of marketing's efforts to catch the attention of the male market.
Originally posted by Kostika Originally posted by rentantilus 1. Proof to back up what its title claims.
There are no links to research source because it was done via several means and personal exerience with other female gamers.
Actually, one of the very first tasks that a writer does is to research their topic vigorously. The topic, Female Gamers, Not A Myth begs for factual data to back up your statements. I also would have liked to have seen more of an unbiased voice. The article almost sounds defensive, yet says very little to provoke a meaningful discussion.
I'm in agreement with those before me who summed up this article as a facsimile of just another female post on any number of other forums out there.
An article that is very disappointing.
BTW, don't most writers spell check their posts? I think you meant EXPERIENCE -- not exerience.
Originally posted by kishe I have female friend who is 22 and pretty...but she lives in nevada and closest RL neighbor is 20 miles away...thats her excuse.
What gets me is when you first hear that a character online is a women, people immediately want to see a picture and judge if she's hot. NEWSFLASH there are lots of pretty women who play games too. They arent all out getting laid and booty dancing at the club, like pretty women are supposed to, right?
What does it matter? Im not concerned with whether one of my online guy friends is hot irl and I dont obsess about hearing his voice on teamspeak so i can see if it sounds sensual.
Even online, where you cant see anyone, people still want to judge women on their looks. Its no different from the real world, if you're sexist irl, you're sexist in game, only the annoninimity brings it out a little more. So there is no mystery why people treat women characters differently and there is no mystery why alot of women chose not to say they are there.
Originally posted by tessa I used to think that perhaps women did want other things from games than men but it simply isn't true. The reasons we women play are just as varied as why men play so there's no magic 'ingredient' to put in games to draw and retain women. Personally, I enjoy mmorpgs, rpgs, and games like CIV as well as the old adventure games. I started playing with no prompting whatsoever as soon as I owned my first pc in 1987 and have been playing mmorpgs since UO. In fact, I rarely watch tv and prefer gaming any day of the week just like my husband and most people I know who are gamers, male and female. -Tessa
Im sorry but this is just plain wrong. Several studies has been done on not only gaming but also movies, sports etc and they mostly show that females prefer other games/movies/sports than men generally do. Females tend to like romantic movies where as men are more into action/sci-fi and as for games females seem to be more into social part of games where as men are more into the action part.
Men and women are different, there is no question about it. And there is no reason to believe that they wouldnt be different in what games they like. This ofcourse is generally speaking and it is very well possible for a girl to like Counterstrike as it is for her to go lift weights at a gym.
The only way to look at it is by doing statistical studies and they clearly show that women are different than men in many areas, including gaming.
Character design is good for both. We all enjoy making our character personal to us. The more options the better.
The main difference I see is using voice. In my guilds with the people I know, I have no problem using a mic, but with the general population, i have found it better to just type.
I personally don't like PvP, but know it is fun for many.
In conclusion: I agree that men and women both want the same thing in a game. The reasons why are as varied as the many people with their own unique opinions. Game designer's have to try to incorporate as many items in the game as possible.
Originally posted by Qabalah Actually, one of the very first tasks that a writer does is to research their topic vigorously. The topic, Female Gamers, Not A Myth begs for factual data to back up your statements. I also would have liked to have seen more of an unbiased voice. The article almost sounds defensive, yet says very little to provoke a meaningful discussion.
I'm in agreement with those before me who summed up this article as a facsimile of just another female post on any number of other forums out there.
An article that is very disappointing.
BTW, don't most writers spell check their posts? I think you meant EXPERIENCE -- not exerience.
Hard numbers are impossible. When it comes to what anyone wants from a game it's all based on opinions. There are no hard facts, only opinions. All I did was compile the opinions from women I talked to about the subject. I'm sorry there isn't hard data, but that's just how opinions work.
It may be a copy of what female gamers have been saying for ages on forums, but it bears saying again in a form that gets noticed. The steroetype isn't broken yet and that is the point. Yes it keeps getting said, but people jsut aren't listening. Otherwise there wouldn't be the horrible stereotype that women don't play games or they're only into girly things.
And excuse me for missing a typo.
Donna Desborough Staff Writer www.mmorpg.com
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
Originally posted by pablo0713 Female gamers are not a myth, however, single female gamers are! In WoW, my two best friends are female gamers. I met them in the game. However, just like any female I've met in WoW, they are married and basically got into the game because their husbands stopped paying attention to them. They started to play WoW to get closer to their husbands and they themselves found out how much they too love the game. It is human nature for men to treat women differently. Just because we are human beings interacting with each other in a game world should not make any difference. Just like in real life, I would prefer hanging out with females rather than males. I have always gotten along with the opposite sex better. As a result, some people think that the females who hang out with me online are taking advantage of me because they are girls and I'm a guy and they can get whatever they want from me. The truth is, I help out everyone equally, male or female. I don't give things to or help out a female just because she's a female. Most of the time, they just happen to be a friend, who is also female, and so any help/assistance I give them always looks like "Oh he's just helping her because she's a girl."
Bah I am single, however I am also 47 years old. I was married for 23 1/2 years (and no gaming did not end the marriage). I have done most of my Online gaming SINCE the divorce. And my super at work is 28 and single (tho taken) and she plays. And out of the other 3 women in out wow guid only 1 was married. You must be getting to know the wrong ones.
Julie "Lissette" Myers Lissette, Lissy, Lyssette etc of LotRO formally, Lissette, Lissy, Lyssette etc of DDO Lyssette of Anarchy Online Lissette of Shadowbane Lissette of Asheron's Call Lissy of World of Warcraft And many more!
Is this article about what we all want in a mmorpg or breaking the sterotype that women don't play games? I don't see anything about women not playing games. Women has always been playing video games and the sterotype has been broken very long ago.
Besides, most of the other threads about female gamers is just females saying they play video games too. Nothing wrong with that. They don't say that things are not equal are anything like that...not much anyway.
Originally posted by Znith Originally posted by Rikimaru_X Originally posted by Znith Personally I get really tired of the girl (woman) gamer myth rehashed over and over. Myself being a woman I've been online gaming since MUDs were born, fragged since Doom and Duke Nukem was released and played mmo's since The Realm. Just give me a great playable game, with immersion, good controls and a pc please. If I like it I will continue to play.
I enjoy games just as much as the typical male. It's the competition, working together for a common goal on a quest, chatting it up about equipment, taking you out with my shotgun in Quake, or just forming online friendships. I'm tired of people trying to put us in a category all of our own. Sure more of us might like the SIMs, but then the SIM's was in a league of it's own with no similar competition when it released.
I agree with you. It's as if some people (or women) think that the rise of female gamers is beginning when it's been there for years.
You are the first female (I think) I ever herd that has mentioned Duke Nukem. I'm guessing you go way back (like my father).
Ack I hope I'm not as old as your father! LOL But yeah I'm in my mid 30's and have been gaming for a while now. I'm addicted, I admit it and I don't ever want to find a cure!
My dad might be about 10+ older than you though. My mom is older than my dad, she just sticks to simple games like Ms. Pac Man.
I'm rather tired of people treating the whole 'Girl Gamer' thing like it's some big deal. It's not. Girls are people and have as much right to enjoy the awesomeness of games just like the rest of us.
I believe in treating girl gamers exactly the same as guy gamers (that's what they want isn't it?), which to me also means not deifying their presence.
You're a girl gamer? Good for you, welcome to the club, don't be a noob. The End.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Originally posted by Renegade94 I know this is kinda out of the blue but.....laurendc, that link u posted on this thread made my day. As i read this, i laughing like a maniac. if u ppl haven't read this, you're really missing out. an yes, the link does deal with this topic. XD
Anyways... I didn't get a computer until fairly late in my life (16 :P) so had to leech off of my cousins ' *shifty*
I've been drawn to video games and computers for as long as I've known about them, though, and played since I was 12 or 13... But... that's not to say that just because this thread is full of girls/ women who does play, they're not far between... Most of the women I know, are pretty helpless at a computer, even worse at games.
Again, though, it's not like they're a myth. I know quite a lot of girls/ women online, both in games and out of games. But... My friends lists are still heavily inclined towards male players.
With that said:
What I look for in MMORPGS, or any other game, is Freedom.
Freedom to be something, or even everything that I am not. The more freedom in a game, the more it'll hook me. I don't much care for PvP, material accomplishments, accumulating wealth, etc etc. I want customization - in char creation, surrroundings, and in the continous change in appearance as my char developes. I want story (not to be confused with content - I find more often than not that what game devs call content, I think of as constricting and 'just' fixed missions). I want freedom in choices, and direction. Unlimited (utopian :P) freedom.
I found most of it in SWG, in an RPing community on the Chim Server.
However - the game stopped meaning anything to me after SOE repeatedly overruled their player base. I stopped playing the game, devoting all my time to RPing and living in Mos Entha or around. The game mechanics lost all meaning and purpose to me, as they continued to decrease the amount of freedom the game used to have, and I increasingly had to make my own freedom with what limited tools at my disposal.
I like having to use my imagination, but when people don't read bios, it can be hard :P - besides... as much as I like using my imagination, when I'm paying a small fortune for accounts, I'd like to be catered to once in a while *blushes*
I think, though, that Fallen Earth - if Icarus Studios can deliver just half of what they're dreaming of - will be the answer to my prayers
Just a look into what this girl likes about gaming *shifty*
"So I contend that the player stories will always be more powerful than the scripted stories that we try to tell the players."
One person can't speak for all women gamers, but this is an important topic. It is a big deal.
In addition to speaking with girl gamers, companies should be hiring more women as developers, designers, creative directors, and usability specialists.
As for those who question the predominance of sexism in the industry:
Five years ago, a study released by the advocacy group Children Now found that "38 percent of female game characters had large breasts and 46 percent had unusually small waists." In a subsequent study, researchers reported that one out of five female characters displayed exposed breasts or midriffs. Even sophisticated and "woman-friendly" titles such as World of Warcraft and Everquest portray female avatars as pole-dancing airheads with enormous cleavage. In the words of one female gamer and researcher, many women hate their avatar choices in the game Everquest because "they have to wear chain-mail bikinis."
Despite the game industry's sexist tendencies, women are an increasingly influential segment of the gaming community. According to a study conducted in 2001 by the Interactive Digital Software Association, women purchase approximately half of all software games. Although young men are more likely to play on home gaming consoles, the Pew Internet and American Life Project reports that 60 percent of all college-age women regularly play online computer games, compared to only 40 percent of their male counterparts.
Originally posted by Rikimaru_X Is this article about what we all want in a mmorpg or breaking the sterotype that women don't play games? I don't see anything about women not playing games. Women has always been playing video games and the sterotype has been broken very long ago. Besides, most of the other threads about female gamers is just females saying they play video games too. Nothing wrong with that. They don't say that things are not equal are anything like that...not much anyway.
If you read the PvP section it is actually trying to convey the idea tha RPrs and those that focus on story have "Girl Gamer" traits. A written piece that makes weird connections like that will get you a red mark in a journalism class without metioning the other biases.
/congrats for calling those who want community and story "Girl Gamers"!
Poorly balanced and written at best. All the article could really say from the "research" is that different players of any gender look for things that may vary from any other individual. Astounding conclusion.
carbonel: Sexism in the industry is not all of a big deal. Think about it the opposite way. What would you think about the male game characters? Solid Snake (he was naked in MGS and my sister loved it btw), Duke Nukem, Link (Zelda), Leon (Resident Evil), etc. Male game characters have sex appeal too. Ever showed a girl a picture of em and ask if he's hot? Just like female game characters such as Lara Croft, Kasumi, Princess Peach (), Ada Wong, BloodRayne, etc. We would think many of these characters attract to us men as well.
Trying to attack sex appeal in video games is not a good way to go. Almost all girls grow up to have the appeal and desire to be perfect, like a princess. Men . . . humm...skip that. I would say Power Rangers, but don't take my word for it. There are magazines out there for women. Shows them how pretty and sexy they should be, how to have the best sex of your life, etc. If you want to deal with somthing like sex appeal in video games, you might need to start at the root of things. Men magazines, talks about men needs, buffness, working out, looking good for your woman, etc.
Women would like a strong man and men would like a fit woman (not stratching the surface of that opinion...it would go off topic). It's just natural. Like I said, this has been going on before video games and women should not be offened. They should actually be proud. Females game characters are doing more than just wating to be saved (like in many, many movies) Lara Croft is now in the Genius Book of World Records. Good looking and ass kicking women. Good looking and ass kicking men.
You don't see NO game where you see a woman in the kitchen...only in the movies my friend. Ya feel me?
I agree fully to what Lissette said. Ever since the late 80´s when I was old enough to play games on our old commodore or nintendo I was hooked :P
I don't like fps because I pretty much lose all the time, so Im sticking with mostly rpg :P the favorites are Final Fantasy (yes all except XI)
WoW, SWG (until they destroyed it) and other games like that are online favs. I normaly go with the crafting part since I like that, or support classes, but it´s fun to play a tank once in a while too :P
Originally posted by Lissette Being a girl (woman ) gamer since the 80's and the Atari 2600 and Commodore 64. I can tell you want I don't want. I don't want any stupid girly, girl games like I saw on the eb games site once. A shopping game, trumpeting that it was especially for the female gamer. Pulease! I felt like taking a shotgun to the game package. I agree one of the most important things is community. When I played Wow we had a guild that had a family feel to it. I admit that I am not all that gung-ho on fps, I prefer rpg's. But if you were in my house and saw the game selection, I think you would not be able to tell I am a woman from them. I have everything from the Sims and Zoo Tycoon to Baldur's Gate II to Battlefield 1942. Right now I am obsessed with Oblivion! And I recently preordered Auto Assault. Do not think that you need to single us out to make a "special" game just for us....I can almost guarantee that it will fail.
are you married?? ..sorry coudn't resist, even though I think you already answered that.
This topic is as old as gaming itself. I just wish that I have a dollar for every thread started about it. And to those who think that only the fat, ugly, or married women only play games, since when did someone's looks determine what they want in life. True it may sway one's decisions and obtainable goals, but doesn't mean that "I'm pretty, so I want to be in a club or win a pageant".
Originally posted by carbonel One person can't speak for all women gamers, but this is an important topic. It is a big deal. In addition to speaking with girl gamers, companies should be hiring more women as developers, designers, creative directors, and usability specialists. As for those who question the predominance of sexism in the industry: Five years ago, a study released by the advocacy group Children Now found that "38 percent of female game characters had large breasts and 46 percent had unusually small waists." In a subsequent study, researchers reported that one out of five female characters displayed exposed breasts or midriffs. Even sophisticated and "woman-friendly" titles such as World of Warcraft and Everquest portray female avatars as pole-dancing airheads with enormous cleavage. In the words of one female gamer and researcher, many women hate their avatar choices in the game Everquest because "they have to wear chain-mail bikinis."
Despite the game industry's sexist tendencies, women are an increasingly influential segment of the gaming community. According to a study conducted in 2001 by the Interactive Digital Software Association, women purchase approximately half of all software games. Although young men are more likely to play on home gaming consoles, the Pew Internet and American Life Project reports that60percent of all college-age women regularly play online computer games, compared to only 40 percent of their male counterparts. For more information, see: http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15251543&BRD=2318&PAG=461&dept_id=550942&rfi=6
If the above article is correct, then women in games is hardly a myth in 2006. Sexism, however, does still exist in the art. But sexism is not the same issue as whether or not we play games.
Mother of 4 daughters and 2 stepdaughters. We, the seven females in this family all game. Most are into mmorpg's, one is dubbed by her male peers "Halo Queen" cuz she pwnz them all. We do get tired of the same article re-hashed over and over. We are not the holy grail.
Now just convince the game developers so they'll start listening to what we want in games.
One person can't speak for all women gamers, but this is an important topic. It is a big deal.
In addition to speaking with girl gamers, companies should be hiring more women as developers, designers, creative directors, and usability specialists.
As for those who question the predominance of sexism in the industry:
Five years ago, a study released by the advocacy group Children Now found that "38 percent of female game characters had large breasts and 46 percent had unusually small waists." In a subsequent study, researchers reported that one out of five female characters displayed exposed breasts or midriffs. Even sophisticated and "woman-friendly" titles such as World of Warcraft and Everquest portray female avatars as pole-dancing airheads with enormous cleavage. In the words of one female gamer and researcher, many women hate their avatar choices in the game Everquest because "they have to wear chain-mail bikinis."
Despite the game industry's sexist tendencies, women are an increasingly influential segment of the gaming community. According to a study conducted in 2001 by the Interactive Digital Software Association, women purchase approximately half of all software games. Although young men are more likely to play on home gaming consoles, the Pew Internet and American Life Project reports that 60 percent of all college-age women regularly play online computer games, compared to only 40 percent of their male counterparts.
This might raise a few male eyebrows or ruffle some feathers so please no flames. What bothers me the most about the above quote is that they are concentrating on the bare midriffs and the big breasts.. Do you know that hardly any women wanted to play the short dwarven female or the ugly barbarian females in EQ for quite a long time? They preferred to play (and so did some guys) the high elves, humans and the wood elves because they were 'pretty' or epitomized the ideal looking female.
In EQ1 I started out as a high elven female wizard, then moved on to a female dwarven cleric and got made fun of, joked at and constantly questioned why I played an ugly dwarf. No I didn't have a beard, but my character definately wasn't the most attractive of the avatars/races.
So what do we want? My guess is avatars that are of normal weight/height/looks/breast size/waist size/shoe size/etc.. whatever the heck that is! I don't always pick the prettiest most beautiful avatar for any online games. I perfer to be unusual or different most of the time.
Sheesh what a tough crowd. Give the writer a break.
My husband actually started me as a gamer with Duke Nukem and Jill of the Jungle. We downloaded alot of shareware in the early days. I became addicted to games and he never really did. While he was out of the house I'd sneak into the DOS help files trying to get games to run and taught myself alot.
For me, the best games always had story and character. I thought of them as sort of like a book and sort of like a movie, except, you were *in* the story, and had the ability to advance the plot and in some cases affect the outcome (non-linear games). Exciting stuff! I have always been able to place myself right there in all those dangerous adventures with Lara Croft or my Khajiit in Oblivion.
Playing Galaxies I really did write my own character stories and lead a separate bit of life. The character customization with Galaxies has left me spoiled. I have my Tailor's color chart with half of the 256 colors named my own way.
My Ranger, thanks to the Naritus rangers was learning all of the animals on all of the planets and what resources they dropped. The generosity of that group, before they were removed from the game, and the good times I had early in the game with Ico and company, these are the great people and things that make mmorpgs worth anyones time. More and more women will be drawn in, for their own reasons. All of the reasons the op mentions in her article are valid. The variety of responses to the article show how different we all are, yet here we all are in this gaming forum, talking games.
Originally posted by Yamota Excuse me but one women should know what "female gamers want"? Oh please, its like saying some guy would make an article saying what male gamers want when even in the realitevely small MMORPG genre there are thousands of different views on the best MMORPG. Male or female is too large of a group to generalise like that. Also from my 10 years experience in MMORPGS female gamers are either reluctant to say that they are female or the portion of female gamers in MMORPGS is quite small compared to male gamers. (Sims Online excluded).
Totally. I never realized it before now but I am a female gamer! Funny how I thought I was a male gamer all this time, but I guess not since all that stuff applied to me!
Generalizations are almost always a mistake, even if they are about "why" and not "what"
Originally posted by Rikimaru_X carbonel: Sexism in the industry is not all of a big deal. Think about it the opposite way. What would you think about the male game characters? Solid Snake (he was naked in MGS and my sister loved it btw), Duke Nukem, Link (Zelda), Leon (Resident Evil), etc. Male game characters have sex appeal too. Ever showed a girl a picture of em and ask if he's hot? Just like female game characters such as Lara Croft, Kasumi, Princess Peach (), Ada Wong, BloodRayne, etc. We would think many of these characters attract to us men as well. Trying to attack sex appeal in video games is not a good way to go. Almost all girls grow up to have the appeal and desire to be perfect, like a princess. Men . . . humm...skip that. I would say Power Rangers, but don't take my word for it. There are magazines out there for women. Shows them how pretty and sexy they should be, how to have the best sex of your life, etc. If you want to deal with somthing like sex appeal in video games, you might need to start at the root of things. Men magazines, talks about men needs, buffness, working out, looking good for your woman, etc. Women would like a strong man and men would like a fit woman (not stratching the surface of that opinion...it would go off topic). It's just natural. Like I said, this has been going on before video games and women should not be offened. They should actually be proud. Females game characters are doing more than just wating to be saved (like in many, many movies) Lara Croft is now in the Genius Book of World Records. Good looking and ass kicking women. Good looking and ass kicking men. You don't see NO game where you see a woman in the kitchen...only in the movies my friend. Ya feel me?
Sorry for the grammar and spelling.
This is all so true. I have been annoyed on a regular basis at this insistence that gaming objectifies women, yet I cannot think of many popular titles that feature fat, out of shape, balding men. There's like Mario and Leisure Suit Larry I think. Every male hero in a video game is also ripped and holds all the properties of what a man "should be".
Interesting as the fact of female gamers actually existing or not and what they might want to play, surely nothing will change until there are a significant number of females in development, marketing, etc of games.
I support Belgiums efforts to get noticed ... at all.
Comments
Women have been playing games since the days of bulletin-board fiction threads. We've managed to become involved in every major title published...we thrive, we don't merely exist. Many of us have gone on to become quite powerful in the realm of MMO creation...so we're involved from the ground up on games like EQ2, WoW, SWG, CoH/CoV, and the upcoming Hero's Journey.
While we are still a minority in terms of players, our development influences are felt across the board in all the major online titles: we are in graphic design, level design, game art, game system coding, management, production, and senior corporate positions as well as consumer relations. We're already thinking like women while simultaneously designing great games for everybody.
The area in which women are neglected is marketing. Ads featuring a scantily-clad wood nymph with a beckoning, sly smile won't work on a woman the way it works on a man. We buy the box anyway since the game is inside it, but we know very well that the marketing isn't aimed at us at all. Frankly, that scantily-clad wood nymph may well have been conceptualized by a female and drawn by a female, and does not necessarily put us off the way some people may think: once we get to the installation disk, the package means very little. We probably don't want the collectible figurine as much as we'd want a real-life replica of that +100 to strength bracelet <g> but again, it illustrates the fact that women will buy a great game in spite of marketing's efforts to catch the attention of the male market.
Actually, one of the very first tasks that a writer does is to research their topic vigorously. The topic, Female Gamers, Not A Myth begs for factual data to back up your statements. I also would have liked to have seen more of an unbiased voice. The article almost sounds defensive, yet says very little to provoke a meaningful discussion.
I'm in agreement with those before me who summed up this article as a facsimile of just another female post on any number of other forums out there.
An article that is very disappointing.
BTW, don't most writers spell check their posts? I think you meant EXPERIENCE -- not exerience.
What does it matter? Im not concerned with whether one of my online guy friends is hot irl and I dont obsess about hearing his voice on teamspeak so i can see if it sounds sensual.
Even online, where you cant see anyone, people still want to judge women on their looks. Its no different from the real world, if you're sexist irl, you're sexist in game, only the annoninimity brings it out a little more. So there is no mystery why people treat women characters differently and there is no mystery why alot of women chose not to say they are there.
For the Horde!
Im sorry but this is just plain wrong. Several studies has been done on not only gaming but also movies, sports etc and they mostly show that females prefer other games/movies/sports than men generally do. Females tend to like romantic movies where as men are more into action/sci-fi and as for games females seem to be more into social part of games where as men are more into the action part.
Men and women are different, there is no question about it. And there is no reason to believe that they wouldnt be different in what games they like. This ofcourse is generally speaking and it is very well possible for a girl to like Counterstrike as it is for her to go lift weights at a gym.
The only way to look at it is by doing statistical studies and they clearly show that women are different than men in many areas, including gaming.
My gaming blog
A well designed game is a draw.
Character design is good for both. We all enjoy making our character personal to us. The more options the better.
The main difference I see is using voice. In my guilds with the people I know, I have no problem using a mic, but with the general population, i have found it better to just type.
I personally don't like PvP, but know it is fun for many.
In conclusion: I agree that men and women both want the same thing in a game. The reasons why are as varied as the many people with their own unique opinions. Game designer's have to try to incorporate as many items in the game as possible.
It may be a copy of what female gamers have been saying for ages on forums, but it bears saying again in a form that gets noticed. The steroetype isn't broken yet and that is the point. Yes it keeps getting said, but people jsut aren't listening. Otherwise there wouldn't be the horrible stereotype that women don't play games or they're only into girly things.
And excuse me for missing a typo.
Donna Desborough
Staff Writer
www.mmorpg.com
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
Julie "Lissette" Myers
Lissette, Lissy, Lyssette etc of LotRO
formally,
Lissette, Lissy, Lyssette etc of DDO
Lyssette of Anarchy Online
Lissette of Shadowbane
Lissette of Asheron's Call
Lissy of World of Warcraft
And many more!
Is this article about what we all want in a mmorpg or breaking the sterotype that women don't play games? I don't see anything about women not playing games. Women has always been playing video games and the sterotype has been broken very long ago.
Besides, most of the other threads about female gamers is just females saying they play video games too. Nothing wrong with that. They don't say that things are not equal are anything like that...not much anyway.
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
I agree with you. It's as if some people (or women) think that the rise of female gamers is beginning when it's been there for years.
You are the first female (I think) I ever herd that has mentioned Duke Nukem. I'm guessing you go way back (like my father).
Ack I hope I'm not as old as your father! LOL But yeah I'm in my mid 30's and have been gaming for a while now. I'm addicted, I admit it and I don't ever want to find a cure!
My dad might be about 10+ older than you though. My mom is older than my dad, she just sticks to simple games like Ms. Pac Man.
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
I'm rather tired of people treating the whole 'Girl Gamer' thing like it's some big deal. It's not. Girls are people and have as much right to enjoy the awesomeness of games just like the rest of us.
I believe in treating girl gamers exactly the same as guy gamers (that's what they want isn't it?), which to me also means not deifying their presence.
You're a girl gamer? Good for you, welcome to the club, don't be a noob. The End.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Those poor kids...
Anyways... I didn't get a computer until fairly late in my life (16 :P) so had to leech off of my cousins ' *shifty*
I've been drawn to video games and computers for as long as I've known about them, though, and played since I was 12 or 13... But... that's not to say that just because this thread is full of girls/ women who does play, they're not far between... Most of the women I know, are pretty helpless at a computer, even worse at games.
Again, though, it's not like they're a myth. I know quite a lot of girls/ women online, both in games and out of games. But... My friends lists are still heavily inclined towards male players.
With that said:
What I look for in MMORPGS, or any other game, is Freedom.
Freedom to be something, or even everything that I am not. The more freedom in a game, the more it'll hook me. I don't much care for PvP, material accomplishments, accumulating wealth, etc etc. I want customization - in char creation, surrroundings, and in the continous change in appearance as my char developes. I want story (not to be confused with content - I find more often than not that what game devs call content, I think of as constricting and 'just' fixed missions). I want freedom in choices, and direction. Unlimited (utopian :P) freedom.
I found most of it in SWG, in an RPing community on the Chim Server.
However - the game stopped meaning anything to me after SOE repeatedly overruled their player base. I stopped playing the game, devoting all my time to RPing and living in Mos Entha or around. The game mechanics lost all meaning and purpose to me, as they continued to decrease the amount of freedom the game used to have, and I increasingly had to make my own freedom with what limited tools at my disposal.
I like having to use my imagination, but when people don't read bios, it can be hard :P - besides... as much as I like using my imagination, when I'm paying a small fortune for accounts, I'd like to be catered to once in a while *blushes*
I think, though, that Fallen Earth - if Icarus Studios can deliver just half of what they're dreaming of - will be the answer to my prayers
Just a look into what this girl likes about gaming *shifty*
"So I contend that the player stories will always be more powerful than the scripted stories that we try to tell the players."
- Will Wright
One person can't speak for all women gamers, but this is an important topic. It is a big deal.
In addition to speaking with girl gamers, companies should be hiring more women as developers, designers, creative directors, and usability specialists.
As for those who question the predominance of sexism in the industry:
Five years ago, a study released by the advocacy group Children Now found that "38 percent of female game characters had large breasts and 46 percent had unusually small waists." In a subsequent study, researchers reported that one out of five female characters displayed exposed breasts or midriffs. Even sophisticated and "woman-friendly" titles such as World of Warcraft and Everquest portray female avatars as pole-dancing airheads with enormous cleavage. In the words of one female gamer and researcher, many women hate their avatar choices in the game Everquest because "they have to wear chain-mail bikinis."
Despite the game industry's sexist tendencies, women are an increasingly influential segment of the gaming community. According to a study conducted in 2001 by the Interactive Digital Software Association, women purchase approximately half of all software games. Although young men are more likely to play on home gaming consoles, the Pew Internet and American Life Project reports that 60 percent of all college-age women regularly play online computer games, compared to only 40 percent of their male counterparts.
For more information, see: http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15251543&BRD=2318&PAG=461&dept_id=550942&rfi=6
/congrats for calling those who want community and story "Girl Gamers"!
Poorly balanced and written at best. All the article could really say from the "research" is that different players of any gender look for things that may vary from any other individual. Astounding conclusion.
Back to what gamers want - the continual development of storylines and graphics so you can immerse yourself in the game.
carbonel: Sexism in the industry is not all of a big deal. Think about it the opposite way. What would you think about the male game characters? Solid Snake (he was naked in MGS and my sister loved it btw), Duke Nukem, Link (Zelda), Leon (Resident Evil), etc. Male game characters have sex appeal too. Ever showed a girl a picture of em and ask if he's hot? Just like female game characters such as Lara Croft, Kasumi, Princess Peach (
), Ada Wong, BloodRayne, etc. We would think many of these characters attract to us men as well.
Trying to attack sex appeal in video games is not a good way to go. Almost all girls grow up to have the appeal and desire to be perfect, like a princess. Men . . . humm...skip that. I would say Power Rangers, but don't take my word for it. There are magazines out there for women. Shows them how pretty and sexy they should be, how to have the best sex of your life, etc. If you want to deal with somthing like sex appeal in video games, you might need to start at the root of things. Men magazines, talks about men needs, buffness, working out, looking good for your woman, etc.
Women would like a strong man and men would like a fit woman (not stratching the surface of that opinion...it would go off topic). It's just natural. Like I said, this has been going on before video games and women should not be offened. They should actually be proud. Females game characters are doing more than just wating to be saved (like in many, many movies) Lara Croft is now in the Genius Book of World Records. Good looking and ass kicking women. Good looking and ass kicking men.
You don't see NO game where you see a woman in the kitchen...only in the movies my friend. Ya feel me?
Sorry for the grammar and spelling.
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
I don't like fps because I pretty much lose all the time, so Im sticking with mostly rpg :P
the favorites are Final Fantasy (yes all except XI)
WoW, SWG (until they destroyed it) and other games like that are online favs.
I normaly go with the crafting part since I like that, or support classes, but it´s fun to play a tank once in a while too :P
..sorry coudn't resist, even though I think you already answered that.
This topic is as old as gaming itself. I just wish that I have a dollar for every thread started about it. And to those who think that only the fat, ugly, or married women only play games, since when did someone's looks determine what they want in life. True it may sway one's decisions and obtainable goals, but doesn't mean that "I'm pretty, so I want to be in a club or win a pageant".
If the above article is correct, then women in games is hardly a myth in 2006. Sexism, however, does still exist in the art. But sexism is not the same issue as whether or not we play games.
Mother of 4 daughters and 2 stepdaughters. We, the seven females in this family all game. Most are into mmorpg's, one is dubbed by her male peers "Halo Queen" cuz she pwnz them all. We do get tired of the same article re-hashed over and over. We are not the holy grail.
Now just convince the game developers so they'll start listening to what we want in games.
In EQ1 I started out as a high elven female wizard, then moved on to a female dwarven cleric and got made fun of, joked at and constantly questioned why I played an ugly dwarf. No I didn't have a beard, but my character definately wasn't the most attractive of the avatars/races.
So what do we want? My guess is avatars that are of normal weight/height/looks/breast size/waist size/shoe size/etc.. whatever the heck that is! I don't always pick the prettiest most beautiful avatar for any online games. I perfer to be unusual or different most of the time.
Sheesh what a tough crowd. Give the writer a break.
My husband actually started me as a gamer with Duke Nukem and Jill of the Jungle. We downloaded alot of shareware in the early days. I became addicted to games and he never really did. While he was out of the house I'd sneak into the DOS help files trying to get games to run and taught myself alot.
For me, the best games always had story and character. I thought of them as sort of like a book and sort of like a movie, except, you were *in* the story, and had the ability to advance the plot and in some cases affect the outcome (non-linear games). Exciting stuff! I have always been able to place myself right there in all those dangerous adventures with Lara Croft or my Khajiit in Oblivion.
Playing Galaxies I really did write my own character stories and lead a separate bit of life. The character customization with Galaxies has left me spoiled. I have my Tailor's color chart with half of the 256 colors named my own way.
My Ranger, thanks to the Naritus rangers was learning all of the animals on all of the planets and what resources they dropped. The generosity of that group, before they were removed from the game, and the good times I had early in the game with Ico and company, these are the great people and things that make mmorpgs worth anyones time. More and more women will be drawn in, for their own reasons. All of the reasons the op mentions in her article are valid. The variety of responses to the article show how different we all are, yet here we all are in this gaming forum, talking games.
Generalizations are almost always a mistake, even if they are about "why" and not "what"
I support Belgiums efforts to get noticed ... at all.