Okay... Its single player third person RPG gameplay which resembles 92383 other games on the market or in development. Is this really that exciting to people?
Until they show how the actual 'rebirth a genre' MMO components work why would I pay for this years in advance?
So you are arguing against kickstarter in general? It has given us a few good games that we would have not gotten otherwise. Why not let people risk their money and benefit from it while risking nothing of your own money?
You realize what pre-alpha is right? How many kickstarters are announced with all their game systems complete? lol
People still don't realize how support of these types of games effect the entire gaming community. The real question is how many kickstarter games release with all the game systems complete. Probably about .00001%, if that. That is the more important question.
And we have gotten nothing but mediocre games from this system, at best. Of course, that is with the idea of keeping at least half the donated money for your salary. But a mans gotta get paid.
Just naming a few:
-Grim Dawn -Wasteland 2 -Divinity -Torment -Broken Age -Pillars of Eternity
Incomplete and mediocre at best I guess? You must have some mighty high standards. Unless you just don't like crowd funding and will gladly ignore things that invalidate your views.
You don't have to like crowd funding but enough with the silly statements saying that it has brought no good at all, it is simply not true.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Some great games there but unless Broken Age is an MMORPG (never heard of that one), those are all single or small Multiplayer games. I think most of us are still waiting for the first successful MMORPG to come through crowdfunding. The only one I can think of that actually launched was Pathfinder Online and that was an utter disaster.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Okay... Its single player third person RPG gameplay which resembles 92383 other games on the market or in development. Is this really that exciting to people?
Until they show how the actual 'rebirth a genre' MMO components work why would I pay for this years in advance?
So you are arguing against kickstarter in general? It has given us a few good games that we would have not gotten otherwise. Why not let people risk their money and benefit from it while risking nothing of your own money?
You realize what pre-alpha is right? How many kickstarters are announced with all their game systems complete? lol
People still don't realize how support of these types of games effect the entire gaming community. The real question is how many kickstarter games release with all the game systems complete. Probably about .00001%, if that. That is the more important question.
And we have gotten nothing but mediocre games from this system, at best. Of course, that is with the idea of keeping at least half the donated money for your salary. But a mans gotta get paid.
Just naming a few:
-Grim Dawn -Wasteland 2 -Divinity -Torment -Broken Age -Pillars of Eternity
Incomplete and mediocre at best I guess? You must have some mighty high standards. Unless you just don't like crowd funding and will gladly ignore things that invalidate your views.
You don't have to like crowd funding but enough with the silly statements saying that it has brought no good at all, it is simply not true.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Not one MMORPG on your list however....
I played Wasteland 2 just last December, good game but still had several significant bugs in it. Reading through forum posts from around the time of its launch it seems like it got off to a rocky start which they eventually fixed.
True, since none has properly launched. Crowfall and Project: Gorgon show great promise though on an extremely tight budget. They still need to cross the finish line though.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Okay... Its single player third person RPG gameplay which resembles 92383 other games on the market or in development. Is this really that exciting to people?
Until they show how the actual 'rebirth a genre' MMO components work why would I pay for this years in advance?
So you are arguing against kickstarter in general? It has given us a few good games that we would have not gotten otherwise. Why not let people risk their money and benefit from it while risking nothing of your own money?
You realize what pre-alpha is right? How many kickstarters are announced with all their game systems complete? lol
People still don't realize how support of these types of games effect the entire gaming community. The real question is how many kickstarter games release with all the game systems complete. Probably about .00001%, if that. That is the more important question.
And we have gotten nothing but mediocre games from this system, at best. Of course, that is with the idea of keeping at least half the donated money for your salary. But a mans gotta get paid.
Just naming a few:
-Grim Dawn -Wasteland 2 -Divinity -Torment -Broken Age -Pillars of Eternity
Incomplete and mediocre at best I guess? You must have some mighty high standards. Unless you just don't like crowd funding and will gladly ignore things that invalidate your views.
You don't have to like crowd funding but enough with the silly statements saying that it has brought no good at all, it is simply not true.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Some great games there but unless Broken Age is an MMORPG (never heard of that one), those are all single or small Multiplayer games. I think most of us are still waiting for the first successful MMORPG to come through crowdfunding. The only one I can think of that actually launched was Pathfinder Online and that was an utter disaster.
True. I actually subbed to Pathfinder Online to see how bad it was. I wasn't disappointed. Crowfall and Project: Gorgon show great promise though. And also, he was talking about crowd funding in general, not specifically MMOs, and in that case he is utterly wrong.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I used Garriot and Smedley as examples because they both used and relied on crowdfunding to develop and continue to develop their games. Garriot and Smedley were in charge of entire teams of developers in the past just like this guy so how is what I wrote "anecdotal evidence"?
If Garriot could not produce a high quality game with a 20mil+ budget and decades of game developing knowledge then how is this person with only "business experience" going to pull it off?
Honestly, IMO, there are *2*, and only two true massive 3D MMORPG's that have ever really gone mainstream(I don't put EQ2 in that) at some point in their lives. The first was EverQuest, the second was World of Warcraft. UO wasn't full 3D(I specifically filter on this because of cost reasons). There have been *a lot* of attempts to replicate the success of the two and most(even Titan from Blizzard and EQNext from SOE/Daybreak) have failed.
The graphics on this sure look fancy. But note that both of the above had sub-standard graphical abilities in comparison to cutting-edge graphical games on release. Neither were state-of-the-art in that arena, because it wasn't the graphics that sold the game. It was the gameplay. It was actually viewed as a plus that WoW didn't push the envelope, because it could run on anything.
Yet you get stuff like AoC that leads with the fact that its got really pretty pictures. And it does. But pretty pictures take $$ and you can rapidly find that you outpace your ability to make it to the end, and in turn those pictures tend to cause problems in mass raiding, as has been noted. And if you do make it, you've put your money in pretty pictures and not necessarily on proven gameplay.
The siege stuff with mass pvp sounds interesting, but it didn't really move the needle in Age of Conan. Or Shadowbane. Or really ANY OTHER GAME ITS BEEN TRIED. Is it going to suddenly catch and sustain mainstream attention(assuming it makes it to release...), i'm not sure. But they seem to be starting from the wrong end of the horse, likely in order to shake the tree on $$. But i'm not confidant in something that comes from that direction. It tends to be a money sink.
About the only up-and-comer I can see getting traction is Pantheon, for the sole reason that its going to be cheap af to produce and is based on proven gameplay. Watch their stream and realize what you're actually seeing... Brad is using the codebase of Everquest 1. Not something like it that they developed.
HE. IS. USING. THE. CODEBASE.
Updating it of course with his own particular effects, story, added systems, and stuff, but gd. He actually has the codebase and is writing a different game around it, while essentially keeping roughly the same classes and mechanics with new character models, while adding various new races and what not. The reason this is important, is that he likely also gets the Raid Scripting Engine, still one of the, if not the most advanced PVE Raid Scripting Engine ever produced for any game. WoW's is a bit more primitive given the less complex nature of the raid mechanics that can be manipulated(no slowing, mezzing, ability to talk to NPC's, etc).
Daybreak still produces zones and yearly expansions, because everything had long been streamlined and shrinkwrapped into a formulized system for building and populating zones. Now, whether he'll be able to get new players to buy into the older style game and gameplay, that's another story. But man he probably won't need much money to do it, and can produce expansions very cheaply.
Too bad no one this site likes to talk about games anymore.
Yeah, I think I'm just about done with mmorpg.com for now. Seems like it's just a platform for cynics to bash every new game that gets announced. Everything's a gash crab, or a scam or whatever, unless it somehow qualifies against an absurd set of often unreasonable criteria for independent developers to meet. And this forum upgrade being a bit annoying is nice extra incentive to put this place on the back burner. Oh well. It was fun for a while.
Yes It's the new thing to do sadly, It's like these people have some sort of competition amongst themselves who sead what game failed first in a post and boast about it "told you so" threads.
Too bad no one this site likes to talk about games anymore.
Yeah, I think I'm just about done with mmorpg.com for now. Seems like it's just a platform for cynics to bash every new game that gets announced. Everything's a gash crab, or a scam or whatever, unless it somehow qualifies against an absurd set of often unreasonable criteria for independent developers to meet. And this forum upgrade being a bit annoying is nice extra incentive to put this place on the back burner. Oh well. It was fun for a while.
Yes It's the new thing to do sadly, It's like these people have some sort of competition amongst themselves who sead what game failed first in a post and boast about it "told you so" threads.
It is funny you say that because I just had someone on Reddit say he was going to do exactly that.
As for Shariff (Sp)... At least he has business experience. Something many of these KS devs do not have. Combined with other's actual dev experience, this has a lot more going for it than most IMO.
Selling miracle juice at his Mom's company? Hiring his new grad husband as CFO? Saying the game will take 30M which he has not confirmed exists?
I am not seeing much in the way of smart business beyond being able to market something that doesn't exist as a AAA quality product.
He rarely touts his business experience as the reason he can make an MMO. Its always about his 25 years as a fan.
Yes, as much as you may dislike or disagree with it, that is business experience. You are also leaving off real estate from his resumé, where he claims to have made most of his money.
How many profitable business ventures have you owned or run? None?
Regardless of what you think of the company or the product, attacking Shariff over Xango is foolish and misguided; I sold Cutco the summer after I graduated high school and did quite well. It helps to have a good product and a good company backing it up, but I get the sense that critical people on the internet seem to grossly devalue the amount of effort it takes to be successful in direct selling. That some view it as a kind of karmic negative really gets under my skin, and makes me feel more Republican than I'm sure I'm comfortable with.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
As for Shariff (Sp)... At least he has business experience. Something many of these KS devs do not have. Combined with other's actual dev experience, this has a lot more going for it than most IMO.
Selling miracle juice at his Mom's company? Hiring his new grad husband as CFO? Saying the game will take 30M which he has not confirmed exists?
I am not seeing much in the way of smart business beyond being able to market something that doesn't exist as a AAA quality product.
He rarely touts his business experience as the reason he can make an MMO. Its always about his 25 years as a fan.
Yes, as much as you may dislike or disagree with it, that is business experience. You are also leaving off real estate from his resumé, where he claims to have made most of his money.
How many profitable business ventures have you owned or run? None?
Regardless of what you think of the company or the product, attacking Shariff over Xango is foolish and misguided; I sold Cutco the summer after I graduated high school and did quite well. It helps to have a good product and a good company backing it up, but I get the sense that critical people on the internet seem to grossly devalue the amount of effort it takes to be successful in direct selling. That some view it as a kind of karmic negative really gets under my skin, and makes me feel more Republican than I'm sure I'm comfortable with.
Try not to let it get you down too much. The reality of the situation is that people who are over-the-top vocal advocates against these things tend not to be very well-informed overall and it's more than likely that they have a plethora of products in their house that they value, or even rely upon, which is no less snake oil. Whatever makes them feel safe at night, I suppose. If it was on a store shelf and didn't have the MLM model attached to it, it would be completely different.
Regardless of what you think of the company or the product, attacking Shariff over Xango is foolish and misguided; I sold Cutco the summer after I graduated high school and did quite well. It helps to have a good product and a good company backing it up, but I get the sense that critical people on the internet seem to grossly devalue the amount of effort it takes to be successful in direct selling. That some view it as a kind of karmic negative really gets under my skin, and makes me feel more Republican than I'm sure I'm comfortable with.
Great so your anecdotal tale of selling MLM absolves him of all criticism?
Lets be very clear, he was not some kid who worked his way up. MLM gurus always have some magical success story when the reality is that his familial connections are what got him close to the top of the pyramid.
The people like you once were at the bottom who get sold on the idea of becoming successful 'business owners' while in reality are just being exploited to push products on friends and family are what made him rich.
And what does 'real estate' mean? Did he build buildings? Buy and sell them? Lease them? Or just give his money to a fund manager and collect a return while playing MMOs all day?
MLM is all about fake hype and that is exactly what this project is.
Regardless of what you think of the company or the product, attacking Shariff over Xango is foolish and misguided; I sold Cutco the summer after I graduated high school and did quite well. It helps to have a good product and a good company backing it up, but I get the sense that critical people on the internet seem to grossly devalue the amount of effort it takes to be successful in direct selling. That some view it as a kind of karmic negative really gets under my skin, and makes me feel more Republican than I'm sure I'm comfortable with.
Great so your anecdotal tale of selling MLM absolves him of all criticism?
Lets be very clear, he was not some kid who worked his way up. MLM gurus always have some magical success story when the reality is that his familial connections are what got him close to the top of the pyramid.
The people like you once were at the bottom who get sold on the idea of becoming successful 'business owners' while in reality are just being exploited to push products on friends and family are what made him rich.
And what does 'real estate' mean? Did he build buildings? Buy and sell them? Lease them? Or just give his money to a fund manager and collect a return while playing MMOs all day?
MLM is all about fake hype and that is exactly what this project is.
Here we go with the MLM topic again. I still fail to see what Steven would gain out of all this. If we was doing so well making money from MLM why would he go into the risky business of making video games? Why would he put a few million of his own money into the project already? He won't be making money off this anytime soon.
Just seems like a really shitty move when he was already doing so well with his other job. Also running a really big guild for 15 years should show that he has some passion for the genre.
Call them incompetent all you want. Promising too much? Maybe. But there is no doubt in my mind they are trying to make a good MMORPG and not trying to deceive anyone.
Nepotism afford people advantages in many aspects of business and life. Not all of it is bad or inappropriate.
Making money from real estate is pretty clear and doesn't need to be detailed or qualified. It could be from flipping, long term investments, rentals, development, or any combination. It's the money made from buying, selling, developing and/or managing real property in some manner.
Maybe you should do some research before trying to have a discussion that may be over your head.
Apologist in chief checking in I see. Are you on the Intrepid PR team or is it more of a volunteer white knight thing?
BTW your 'research' is just stating basic definitions and entirely misses the point. He has a totally unknown background beyond his personal fairy tale MLM bio which would lead rational people to question his ability to deliver a genre 'rebirthing' MMO.
Blizzard decided it couldn't make a game changing MMO (Titan), but Steven can?
Nepotism afford people advantages in many aspects of business and life. Not all of it is bad or inappropriate.
Making money from real estate is pretty clear and doesn't need to be detailed or qualified. It could be from flipping, long term investments, rentals, development, or any combination. It's the money made from buying, selling, developing and/or managing real property in some manner.
Maybe you should do some research before trying to have a discussion that may be over your head.
Apologist in chief checking in I see. Are you on the Intrepid PR team or is it more of a volunteer white knight thing?
BTW your 'research' is just stating basic definitions and entirely misses the point. He has a totally unknown background beyond his personal fairy tale MLM bio which would lead rational people to question his ability to deliver a genre 'rebirthing' MMO.
Blizzard decided it couldn't make a game changing MMO (Titan), but Steven can?
lol wut? Blizzard did make a game changing MMO with World of Warcraft. The only reason they cancelled Titan was because the game just wasn't fun. They tried to go with some off the wall game mechanics and it just wasn't good.
Ashes is a pretty traditional MMO for the most part. They aren't doing anything crazy. It is definitely possible.
Ashes is a pretty traditional MMO for the most part. They aren't doing anything crazy. It is definitely possible.
No its not an MMO, its a set of promises and some UE4 footage.
And Intrepid will rebirth a genre with a 'traditional MMO that doesn't do anything crazy'...no giant contradiction there at all.
Why not just play an already proven current game since AoC won't be anything different?
It is traditional in all the right ways. The node system is awesome but at the same time it isn't on the level of EQ Next biting off more than it could chew. Also it is the combination of features that matters more than "groundbreaking features". The economy of a SWG or EVE. Tab targeting combat but with lots of movement. The world building of old SWG with lots of housing and personal shops. A lot of this stuff isn't new but not often all in one game.
Not to mention the fact that there is no P2W.
Obviously it is a set of promises fuckwit. So is every game in development. Especially one just recently announced.
Of all the people on this forums I am most confused by your presence. You have no interest in the game. I have never once gone to a forum of a game I never plan on playing and shit all over it. There is a difference between bringing up concerns for a game you have interest in and just being a troll.
The legions of affiliate spammers have site traffic covered but I am happy to do my part.
Also quick question, between EQNext and AoC which project were you more confident in based on initial available information?
Easily AoC. This was the launch gameplay I remember from EQ Next: .Destructible terrain made up of tiny little minecraft-like boxes and a fuck ton of particle effects flying all over. How would the servers handle that in an MMO setting? Their version of the node system all run by AI instead of the simplistic version AoC is going with. They were crazy ambitious.
I will honest though after that initial announcement I didn't follow EQ Next at all. I hated it right from the start.
EDIT: Forgot to mention allowing people to create their own fucking shit with a separate game. Why not add to the game's complexity?
So you thought SOE was over-hyping their technical capabilities based on a video.
Do you think there is any possibility other developers might do the same? Should we just trust everybody as long as they don't include voxels?
Who said there isn't any possibility and/or we should 100% trust everyone else? However its 5 years later and AoC isn't nearly as ambitious so I fail to see the comparison. I would rate their chance of success much much higher.
I triple dog dare them to put 10-20 players on the screen at once during their demos.
Lol..why would they do that in an unfinished, un-optimized gamestate? Smarter people than you know the damage that would do to show the game like that especially to the likes of people like yourself...
Destructible terrain made up of tiny little minecraft-like boxes and a fuck ton of particle effects flying all over. How would the servers handle that in an MMO setting?
Easily, since that part of the destruction is done on the client, not server.
EQNext "AI" was nothing like AoCR nodes, it was way more complex...way more.
However, technical difficulties were unlikely a reason for EQNext shutdown.
Destructible terrain made up of tiny little minecraft-like boxes and a fuck ton of particle effects flying all over. How would the servers handle that in an MMO setting?
Easily, since that part of the destruction is done on the client, not server.
EQNext "AI" was nothing like AoCR nodes, it was way more complex...way more.
However, technical difficulties were unlikely a reason for EQNext shutdown.
If it was done only with the client does that mean other players don't see the destruction you would cause? Because that wouldn't make sense. I imagine everyone could see a hole you made in the ground which means it has to be sent to the server and to their client.
And yes the EQ Next AI was way too ambitious. its something they talk about in the AoC Q&A from the people who helped worked on it.
If it was done only with the client does that mean other players don't see the destruction you would cause? Because that wouldn't make sense. I imagine everyone could see a hole you made in the ground which means it has to be sent to the server and to their client.
And yes the EQ Next AI was way too ambitious. its something they talk about in the AoC Q&A from the people who helped worked on it.
I didn't say it is only client side, I replied to specific formulation of your post. Why twisting what I am saying?
The whole effect of destruction, the part you talk about, is processed client side. On the server side, it is merely a change of object value - no big deal.
I never denied it wasn't ambituos, just saying that technical difficulties were unlikely a reason of project cancelation.
On more general note, most of similar features aren't as much difficult technical but design wise.
The example could be easily used mentioned terraforming. The real challenge is how to implement it in fun way without being it abused and not interfering with other features. Technically it isn't all that of big deal, 5 men made MMO like Perpetuum got it in and I would say it is also a good example how difficult it is to implement it meaningfully.
I can imagine same case was StoryBricks. Complex AI attached to questing but at the end of the day, you get same kill 10 wolfs/bring 10 wolf hides routine. GW2 and "dynamic world"? We know how did that go...
Finding a technical solution is the easier part, transition from catchy phrase to proper analysis is the difficult part.
Comments
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Open world / played skilled combat is what im looking for..
Seems no info on that yet..
Besides that.. unreal engine is pretty bad for mmorpg specially with loads of players in an area.
Wonder if they can adjust the netcode to get this one working
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
The graphics on this sure look fancy. But note that both of the above had sub-standard graphical abilities in comparison to cutting-edge graphical games on release. Neither were state-of-the-art in that arena, because it wasn't the graphics that sold the game. It was the gameplay. It was actually viewed as a plus that WoW didn't push the envelope, because it could run on anything.
Yet you get stuff like AoC that leads with the fact that its got really pretty pictures. And it does. But pretty pictures take $$ and you can rapidly find that you outpace your ability to make it to the end, and in turn those pictures tend to cause problems in mass raiding, as has been noted. And if you do make it, you've put your money in pretty pictures and not necessarily on proven gameplay.
The siege stuff with mass pvp sounds interesting, but it didn't really move the needle in Age of Conan. Or Shadowbane. Or really ANY OTHER GAME ITS BEEN TRIED. Is it going to suddenly catch and sustain mainstream attention(assuming it makes it to release...), i'm not sure. But they seem to be starting from the wrong end of the horse, likely in order to shake the tree on $$. But i'm not confidant in something that comes from that direction. It tends to be a money sink.
About the only up-and-comer I can see getting traction is Pantheon, for the sole reason that its going to be cheap af to produce and is based on proven gameplay. Watch their stream and realize what you're actually seeing... Brad is using the codebase of Everquest 1. Not something like it that they developed.
HE. IS. USING. THE. CODEBASE.
Updating it of course with his own particular effects, story, added systems, and stuff, but gd. He actually has the codebase and is writing a different game around it, while essentially keeping roughly the same classes and mechanics with new character models, while adding various new races and what not. The reason this is important, is that he likely also gets the Raid Scripting Engine, still one of the, if not the most advanced PVE Raid Scripting Engine ever produced for any game. WoW's is a bit more primitive given the less complex nature of the raid mechanics that can be manipulated(no slowing, mezzing, ability to talk to NPC's, etc).
Daybreak still produces zones and yearly expansions, because everything had long been streamlined and shrinkwrapped into a formulized system for building and populating zones. Now, whether he'll be able to get new players to buy into the older style game and gameplay, that's another story. But man he probably won't need much money to do it, and can produce expansions very cheaply.
Yes It's the new thing to do sadly, It's like these people have some sort of competition amongst themselves who sead what game failed first in a post and boast about it "told you so" threads.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/6clyly/creating_your_own_engine_is_a_waste_of_time/dhwh52z/
How many profitable business ventures have you owned or run? None?
Regardless of what you think of the company or the product, attacking Shariff over Xango is foolish and misguided; I sold Cutco the summer after I graduated high school and did quite well. It helps to have a good product and a good company backing it up, but I get the sense that critical people on the internet seem to grossly devalue the amount of effort it takes to be successful in direct selling. That some view it as a kind of karmic negative really gets under my skin, and makes me feel more Republican than I'm sure I'm comfortable with.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Try not to let it get you down too much. The reality of the situation is that people who are over-the-top vocal advocates against these things tend not to be very well-informed overall and it's more than likely that they have a plethora of products in their house that they value, or even rely upon, which is no less snake oil. Whatever makes them feel safe at night, I suppose. If it was on a store shelf and didn't have the MLM model attached to it, it would be completely different.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Lets be very clear, he was not some kid who worked his way up. MLM gurus always have some magical success story when the reality is that his familial connections are what got him close to the top of the pyramid.
The people like you once were at the bottom who get sold on the idea of becoming successful 'business owners' while in reality are just being exploited to push products on friends and family are what made him rich.
And what does 'real estate' mean? Did he build buildings? Buy and sell them? Lease them? Or just give his money to a fund manager and collect a return while playing MMOs all day?
MLM is all about fake hype and that is exactly what this project is.
Just seems like a really shitty move when he was already doing so well with his other job. Also running a really big guild for 15 years should show that he has some passion for the genre.
Call them incompetent all you want. Promising too much? Maybe. But there is no doubt in my mind they are trying to make a good MMORPG and not trying to deceive anyone.
BTW your 'research' is just stating basic definitions and entirely misses the point. He has a totally unknown background beyond his personal fairy tale MLM bio which would lead rational people to question his ability to deliver a genre 'rebirthing' MMO.
Blizzard decided it couldn't make a game changing MMO (Titan), but Steven can?
Ashes is a pretty traditional MMO for the most part. They aren't doing anything crazy. It is definitely possible.
And Intrepid will rebirth a genre with a 'traditional MMO that doesn't do anything crazy'...no giant contradiction there at all.
Why not just play an already proven current game since AoC won't be anything different?
Not to mention the fact that there is no P2W.
Obviously it is a set of promises fuckwit. So is every game in development. Especially one just recently announced.
Of all the people on this forums I am most confused by your presence. You have no interest in the game. I have never once gone to a forum of a game I never plan on playing and shit all over it. There is a difference between bringing up concerns for a game you have interest in and just being a troll.
Since that isn't going to happen, I might as well enjoy watching the train crash.
Also quick question, between EQNext and AoC which project were you more confident in based on initial available information?
I will honest though after that initial announcement I didn't follow EQ Next at all. I hated it right from the start.
EDIT: Forgot to mention allowing people to create their own fucking shit with a separate game. Why not add to the game's complexity?
Do you think there is any possibility other developers might do the same? Should we just trust everybody as long as they don't include voxels?
Lol..why would they do that in an unfinished, un-optimized gamestate? Smarter people than you know the damage that would do to show the game like that especially to the likes of people like yourself...
EQNext "AI" was nothing like AoCR nodes, it was way more complex...way more.
However, technical difficulties were unlikely a reason for EQNext shutdown.
And yes the EQ Next AI was way too ambitious. its something they talk about in the AoC Q&A from the people who helped worked on it.
The whole effect of destruction, the part you talk about, is processed client side. On the server side, it is merely a change of object value - no big deal.
I never denied it wasn't ambituos, just saying that technical difficulties were unlikely a reason of project cancelation.
On more general note, most of similar features aren't as much difficult technical but design wise.
The example could be easily used mentioned terraforming. The real challenge is how to implement it in fun way without being it abused and not interfering with other features. Technically it isn't all that of big deal, 5 men made MMO like Perpetuum got it in and I would say it is also a good example how difficult it is to implement it meaningfully.
I can imagine same case was StoryBricks. Complex AI attached to questing but at the end of the day, you get same kill 10 wolfs/bring 10 wolf hides routine. GW2 and "dynamic world"? We know how did that go...
Finding a technical solution is the easier part, transition from catchy phrase to proper analysis is the difficult part.