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PvP vs PvE - Who favours both? or one??
Alden120
Member Posts: 69
I myself am a PvP buff, not because of causing characters grief, but moreso the sheer thrill of fighting out an intelligent battle.
Pure PvP is the best way to experience its true form. By this i mean hardly any safe area's, and always vulnerable to attack.
Darktide on AC is a great example of this.
What's do the rest of you prefer?
You need PvE to gain skills and such, and its fun if you are hunting for loot .. etc..
I just thought of a great Idea..
Anyone who's played FF3 will know what im talking about here.
Sorry to get off the topic, but in FF3 there was a character who learned the moves of monsters..
Wouldnt that be neat if the UXO devs implemented a system where players could learn monster abilities ??
the more you fight a monster the greater chance you have of learning their skills.
I dunno maybe im just being silly, it would be a cool addition tho!
so leave some opinions of PvP!
that way we can see other peoples preferance : )
Comments
You know, for the longest time, I would have said that I was strictly a PvE fan, hands down, but I recently realized two things: I have a lot of memorable and/or funny stories from my time in UO (pre-Trammel), and most of them involved PvP. I remember those times fondly. So, I am not opposed to PvP.
Still, because I have very limited time to play these days, I really don't feel like messing with other people much, most of the time. I just want to log on, kill some critters, chat a little, and then go to bed. I like the option of turning down fights that I don't want to get into, particularly with complete strangers who have no reason to be bugging me.
Bottom line, I have to come down on the side of PvE because I am anti-social and mean.
But if other people want a server dedicated to PvP, I don't see any reason (other than a cost issue, maybe) not to accomodate them.
[EDIT: Punctuation is my friend. I should use it.
]
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This is where I draw the line: __________________.
The type of pvp in this game is very inspired. the dueling allows fair fights between even opponents so that there is no killing new players when you are lvl 50. IT gives you something to strive for too since there is a ladder system . The gvg system allows to guilds of over 8players to partake in an epic battle with out anything being un fair since it has to be an equal amount of players . I.e 40v40 or 38vs38
IT has everything a pvp wants but nothing a pker wants .
Hey guys you can jump over to my forums and get in on free ipods , flatscreens and pcs . Check it out
I like the idea of safe zones and pvp zones all on the same server. Gives me a chance to play both playstyles whenever I wish to without having to work on two seperate characters. It also gives me a chance to play with my friends on a non pvp zone without having to go through the hassle of relogging, etc... I find it hard to comprehend why some people can't handle zones, they are more or less seperate servers... They just allow you to play them all with the same character if you wish. I'd also be okay with having seperate servers as long as characters could jump from one server to the other anytime they wanted to{without being charged extra of course}.
I've never been that big on pvp. I love the excitement of knowing that I can be attacked at any time, and I find that you can really know who your friends are when they have the option of attacking you whenever they want to, but I'm mostly a pve kinda guy. And UXO looks to have the best pve system available in any game thus far. I do think that UXO could seriously do better in the pvp department however. 1v1 isn't as fun as gvg, and to participate in gvg you have to have a guild that enjoys pvp. It's like when you call the billing department and they transfer you to someone who then transfers you back, who then transfers you again, etc... You just can't get what you're looking for so you eventual hang up, give up, and leave.
"Can't... Sleep... The Carebears... Will get... Their way..."
Yes. But when you buy warcraft and you suddenly feel like playing a fps do you complain and ask warcraft to add in a fps mode ? No you either buy another game or be happy playing the game you want .
Utlima x odessy has its own style of play just like warcraft. To ask it to add in another would be the same as my example above. If you do not like the whole game do not buy it .
Hey guys you can jump over to my forums and get in on free ipods , flatscreens and pcs . Check it out
"Can't... Sleep... The Carebears... Will get... Their way..."
No just like warcraft does not shoot to please everyone neither does a mmorpg need too. Otherwise I want ray guns in ultima x . THey should be in because I want it and mmorpg need to cater to everyone huh arxon ?
Your reason does not wash here because its retarted. A mmorpg will target an audiance. IN this case its the pves who once in a blue moon want to duel someone. They do not have to cater to anyone else. Esp not a fan base that has an amount that love to grief thier man audiance.
Hey guys you can jump over to my forums and get in on free ipods , flatscreens and pcs . Check it out
Griefing will be in a game regardless of what they do to prevent it. They might as well all be in a pvp zone where people can at least fight back. Seriously though, I do think that they have done a great job in their attempts to eliminate griefing in this game. And I do believe that they could come up with a way of implementing pvp zones in UXO that have a very grief free environment.
And it's not like I'm crazy or anything by wanting consentual zone pvp in this game. I haven't been asking for laser guns or rocket ships. PvP is something important in any type of game, and has been well known in the fantasy genre. It's a very popular playstyle, and can do nothing more than increase the playerbase in UXO if done correctly.
"Can't... Sleep... The Carebears... Will get... Their way..."
First . They do not need zoned pvp in this game. The two types of pvp in this game will give 90% of the pvps what they want and give griefers nothing.
Griefing will happen yes. But the amount that will happen with no open pvp zones is much greater than with out anyform of open pvp. IT will keep griefers away. If you make an open pvp zone then griefers will come and grief that zone and then go out into the world and try to grief the non pvps . Yes it will still be limited to what griefers can do now but there will be more as a result of open pvp areas where they can gank up on anyone who comes into that zone. If you think the number wont increase then You really are one sided .
"PvP is something important in any type of game, and has been well known in the fantasy genre. It's a very popular playstyle, and can do nothing more than increase the playerbase in UXO if done correctly."
No it is not. Rpgs have exist for many years with out any pvp. Pvp has only hurt the genre by giving people a reason to leave games do to constant harrasment by a portion of the pvp population. If anything pvp is the key to limiting and eventualy decreasing the playerbase of a mmorpg. Fresh content , exciting storys and interesting monsters and a.i will keep people flocking to this game along with the quests , powers and the 99% grief free experiance.
There is a reason why ea went this route. They have more data than any of us can imagine. They know exactly how many of thier fans want pvp vs those who never want anything to do with it. They knew that the risk was not worth the small reward.
Mabye if pvps could ever mature enough where griefers wont exist then we can have some form of open pvp. But because one a hole has the abilty to ruin 100s of peoples game experiance in just one day that option can never be given with the type of pvp that exists now .
Hey guys you can jump over to my forums and get in on free ipods , flatscreens and pcs . Check it out
Ok, one last time since there are some that obviously haven't gotten the point yet.........THERE IS PVP AND GVG IN UXO.
It may not be how you like it to be, but the majority of the people that are checking into the game like it as it is. The reason most of us like it is because we DON'T like being attacked out of the blue for no good reason other than we were there and someone else wants to make themselves feel big. UXO is about following virtues, randomly murdering people for no good reason whatsoever does NOT fit into the game play at all. As it stands now, there is no way to play an "evil" character. PvP will be done by dueling which will be considered a "gentleman's sport" in UXO. Gentleman's sport would mean that it's done in the spirit of fun and competition both of which require consent to be fair.
I agree that the true test of your skill lies in fighting another real person, but you need to understand that the true test of your integrity would include not whining because you have to show some respect for that person and ask their permission first. It's common courtesy. You claim that the feeling of insecurity is what gave you a rush in UO, well, that's fine and dandy for you. For the rest of us, being attacked when we were trying to do something else and had no interest in engaging in PvP at the time was a real pisser. It doesn't matter if we won or not, it wasn't what we wanted to do at the time.
You need to understand that the devs are making a game where the player can decide what he wants to do and when HE wants to do it, not when someone else decides he should. You, nor anyone else, has any right whatsoever to tell me when I'm going to PvP and when I'm not. I'm paying for the game just like everyone else and that decision should be mine alone, no one else's. When I decide I'm in the mood for some PvP then I'll ask around among the other people online with me and find someone who is wanting to do that too. That makes it even more of a test of my skill because I'll be fighting someone who is prepared to fight me, not taken by surprise which gives me the upperhand.
As for griefing, I'd say the devs did one helluva job eliminating as much as possible in UXO. No one can PK me for no reason, they can't really kill steal, they can't get one hit in on a mob I was fighting and steal the loot from under me, heck, they can't even spam me with insults thanks to the /ignore feature on the chat. This is going to be a player FRIENDLY game, not a player ABUSING game.
I love the way UXO is planning to handle PvP by use of the duelling system. I'd hate to just jump into the game and be harrassed by some 50th level barbarian. I do have a suggestion though. It would more than likely only work on an RP sever however.
There could be an option to accept all duels without notification. For example. I could roleplay a bandit. I'm hiding in some trees, along comes a rich adventurer. I click on duel with him before starting anything. If he has auto-duel selected, then I know he has to be an RP'er who is ready for anything so long as it is Rp'ed well. Then I jump out of the trees, and proceed to rob him. Those that don't want to deal with any of this, simply don't turn on this option.
That's a good idea, Solan. It still leaves the decision up to the individual, but would satisfy those that prefer to attack without warning as well.
*edit* Hope you don't mind, I copied and pasted the idea onto the UXO Stratics boards as well to get some other feedback.
No one is asking for it to be in the release, but as easy as it would be to implement, there wouldn't be any reason why they couldn't do it if they had a little spare time.No one is telling you to play in pvp zones. You can if you wish, or you can play in a dungeon, or you can sit in a town, or you can do hundreds of other things that aren't pvp related. That is the convienience of zones, you can take breaks whenever you please, and play any part of the game that's available to everyone. I'm not asking for them to take away dueling or gvg either. I happen to like those systems a lot and know that they will come in handy at times. Such as maybe you lose in a group pvp battle because your team sucks. So you challenge the best player in their group to a 1v1 duel to prove that you are a worthy opponent.
Some people like to take on more than one person. I mean you don't go into a zone to fight 1v1. Especially when dueling is already an available pvp system. You go into zones for a feeling of "real time" combat with multiple participants. You don't ever really suprise anyone in a pvp zone when you attack, because that's what they are there for, to be attacked. I don't really care if someone wants to try to grief there or not, cause the fact is, it's 10 times harder to grief in a pvp zone than it would ever be in the rest of the game. If you grief in a pvp zone then you're just looking to get yourself stomped on. And death, who cares about death in a pvp zone? You go there to die, many times. It's the victories that make it worth it.
Sure, ya'll can say that it doesn't follow the storyline, or whatever, but I don't see it that way. I feel that people that pvp are only try'n to better themselves in the art of combat. Practice makes perfect, and going up against a foe as strong as the guardian, we are going to need a lot of practice.
Solan, the only problem that i do have with that idea is the same problem that I'd have with a pvp server. I don't want to participate in open pvp all of the time, just when I'm in the mood to. but I don't want it to be so easy as to flip a switch to cut it off either. Zones allow for this. If I am no longer in the mood to pvp openly, then I can just walk out of the zone. Not as simple as flipping a switch, but that's a good thing. Plus it's just easier on the eyes to know that everyone in your area is attackable. As opposed to playing wheres waldo everywhere you happen to adventure off to.
Griefers I find don't normally partake in pvp that often. They are usually pve'ers. They hide behind the rules of the game. They only do things to bother you when they know that they can't be stopped. They tend to oppose pvp because they are afraid that they will be stopped. So your "adding pvp zones will bring griefers by the dozen" notion is very skewed.
"Can't... Sleep... The Carebears... Will get... Their way..."
I favor BOTH PvP and PvE.
So far only 3 MMORPGs have successfully integrated both PvE and PvE on every single one of their servers:
Runescape - It actually has dueling, player chooses to have their PvP switch always on, and... a HUGE area of the far northern game world known as the wastelands. It's 100% PvP there.
Anarchy Onilne - It has consentual PvP between 2 major factions that players can choose to join.
Star Wars Galaxies - There are 2 major factions players can join. After they DECIDE to join either one, they are 100% Kill On Sight to any player in the opposing faction.
UXO should have both PvE and PvP, after checking out how the above 3 successfull games made it work.
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MMORPG games I've played:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
Star Wars Galaxies:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/capt_xplororor
More games:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
I enjoy both, but the thing that's really kind of made pvp bad in previous MMORPG's is not necessarily it being implemented wrong. But the fact that most MMORPG's combat systems are designed to favor level/equipment and common sense over your actual "twitch" skills.
That's what has made FPS's and MMORPG's different when it comes to fighting another human. Hopefully with the much more advanced combat system that UXO promises it will bring the pvp to a new level. And at least require some reflex skill and strategy.
And I really hope they make an open pvp server down the road. Could be really fun with this game. But I guess I can just make a guild and wage war with everyone =P
*deposits his 2 cents*
Well I can agree with the fact that it definetly adds excitment to the game if u can be attacked at any time, it gives you the feeling "man whats gonna happen next" or keep your eyes open Pkers hang out in this area. While I know it allows griefers to act up, but you definetly feel "safer" in pvp free zones its just not the same worried or exciting feeling.
I do like the zone idea, I think they should have and area where there are outlaws and cutthroats to follow story line and you can open PVP (Buccaneers Den ring a bell?) and they can add quest areas there so if you dont regular pvp u can at least get a taste of it. I wouldnt make any benefit to being involved in PVP over PVE, you dont wanna feel you have to PVP or you cant have as good a character unless you pvp.
Thats my couple of pennies
Either ya like the PvP or you don't. However there is no reason for anyone saying that there should be PvP in this game. I like the way PvP is set up here. Basically what I am sayin if you want to be able to pvp anywhere, then perhaps this isn't the game for you.
I am gettin irritated with people sayin that this game should have this, and that game should have that...etc. Why not just go an follow another game. There are many other games in the works, catoring to many different playstyles. So follow one of those games if this one ain't to you liking.
*A game does not rule all other games...espcially if it hasn't been released yet.*
*A game does not rule all other games...espcially if it hasn't been released yet.*
I dont really care for pvp in a mmorpg at all. Most games that try to cater to a pvp crowd end up having a poor system for it, or concentrate on it, and end up lacking in content massively and are not really a mmorpg anyway.
If you want to make a MMOPVPF (massive multiplayer online pvp fest) go for it, but dont bother calling it a mmorpg or trying to attract the average mmorpg player to it.
In short, make pvp games, and non pvp games, dont lessen both by trying to put them in one package like so many new games are trying.
::Revan::Yordo::
EQ2
Guild Search
I imagine you would say I am a PvE player. It's not that I only fight AI, but I am more of an explorer. I enjoy 'finding' things so I usually skirt around monsters and the like so that I don't have my form of enjoyment taken by un-needed combat.
Of course I do believe in defending yourself. I have had to do it more then once in UO when some mage thought he was hot stuff and tried to take me out.
Of the times I have PvP'ed I have not found that much enjoyment in it. I respect that others do. Heck I love to watch players fight. Thats once again my form of entertainment right there with exploring.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Do you not think that if there was a game with UXO's PvE potential and a PvP system 2x as good that I wouldnt' be all over it? If there was such a game I wouldn't even be considering UXO. But as of yet, no game has the potential to overcome UXO. Cept for Maybe WOW, but I doubt that. The problem is that PvP isn't the best thing about MMORPG's. You need a Solid PvE foundation first. And any PvP game that I've seen on the market severely lacks this. Not to mention how much the OSI Dev team actually listens to their playerbase as opposed to any other company in the market. Eventually they will have to see how much they are lacking in the PvP department. More than likely however, they wont notice this until after the game has been released...
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"Can't... Sleep... The Carebears... Will get... Their way..."