How any one can argue that those of us who have bought 3 units are not counted 3 times and think that this is a conspiracy or theory is beyond comprehension.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
It's a buy to play game people. It is basically like saying you must spend X amount from the cash shop in order to play a F2P game. There is little difference.
This model still directly uses F2P model analytics where player retention and the percentage of players willing to buy from the cash shop. Purchased accounts as a metric is nothing more than guaranteed up front bonus income.
The real capital comes from the cash shop targeting those who spend the most by selective cash shop content and pricing. B2P simply adds content packs to the cash shop which would normally be free under a subscription model which forces players who wouldn't otherwise use the cash shop to use it.
Reporting the number of clients sold is a marketing gimmick. The REAL metrics are player retention and ratio of cash shop spenders which they will NEVER, EVER report .... ever, ever, ever.
It's a buy to play game people. It is basically like saying you must spend X amount from the cash shop in order to play a F2P game. There is little difference.
This model still directly uses F2P model analytics where player retention and the percentage of players willing to buy from the cash shop. Purchased accounts as a metric is nothing more than guaranteed up front bonus income.
The real capital comes from the cash shop targeting those who spend the most by selective cash shop content and pricing. B2P simply adds content packs to the cash shop which would normally be free under a subscription model which forces players who wouldn't otherwise use the cash shop to use it.
Reporting the number of clients sold is a marketing gimmick. The REAL metrics are player retention and ratio of cash shop spenders which they will NEVER, EVER report .... ever, ever, ever.
You can always check steamspy and steamcharts for Steam related numbers.
The numbers are good, imo. 12k average players since Gold edition was launched (with a 20 something K peak if I remember correctly). Those are good numbers for steam alone.
That is not the companies actual metrics for the business model ... and not even close to reality across platforms.
I am only speaking of the reality of B2P/F2P models and not commenting on how successful the game is. Please do not assume meaning beyond what is stated.
It's a buy to play game people. It is basically like saying you must spend X amount from the cash shop in order to play a F2P game. There is little difference.
This model still directly uses F2P model analytics where player retention and the percentage of players willing to buy from the cash shop. Purchased accounts as a metric is nothing more than guaranteed up front bonus income.
The real capital comes from the cash shop targeting those who spend the most by selective cash shop content and pricing. B2P simply adds content packs to the cash shop which would normally be free under a subscription model which forces players who wouldn't otherwise use the cash shop to use it.
Reporting the number of clients sold is a marketing gimmick. The REAL metrics are player retention and ratio of cash shop spenders which they will NEVER, EVER report .... ever, ever, ever.
You can always check steamspy and steamcharts for Steam related numbers.
The numbers are good, imo. 12k average players since Gold edition was launched (with a 20 something K peak if I remember correctly). Those are good numbers for steam alone.
That is not the companies actual metrics for the business model ... and not even close to reality across platforms.
I am only speaking of the reality of B2P/F2P models and not commenting on how successful the game is. Please do not assume meaning beyond what is stated.
Never claimed or assumed otherwise. Simply saying steam numbers of active players.
I am saying that that is a pointless stat. It is a small, partial measure of one single metric that is largely represented only on one platform. It reflects no other metric required to calculate F2P earnings. One does not even know what percentage of players launch through steam and all evidence shows it is a very small portion.
Steam numbers is about as valid as saying client sales reflects success in a cash shop model. Client sales doesn't even reflect ongoing success in a subscription game. You'd need to know exact subscription numbers just as you would require knowledge of each metric that makes up their B2P hybrid model ... and it is the model that they secretly protect.
Tossing partial metrics at us is largely for marketing reasons only but certainly reflects better upon actual success the higher the number is, if assuming their B2P model is at least moderately effective.
Last summer they announced 7M sales which means c.3M copies in about a year. In addition to some DLC and other stuff.
So another "good" year.
As to whether people who paid extra prior to Jun 2014 to get a console copy are counted as 1 sale or 2 its possible they could have factored these out - more likely they just added the PC, XB1 and PS4 ESO account totals together.
Note: each platform is independent same as e.g. WoW regions - I first bought WoW in the US and when I next played it I was in EU so had to buy it again (holy smoke Batman that means I have been counted as 2 sales).
Either way the number - it is reasonable to assume - will have been small. ESO wasn't setting the sales charts on fire; no sales totals at all had been released; B2P wouldn't be announced till Jan 2015; it was unclear whether the console version would have a sub or not (even on PS4 since the original launch had been pulled.)
To reiterate though: at the end of the day c.3M sales in the c. last 12 months.
Why are we twisting the meaning of the numbers? Does it matter if someone bought 3x copies rather than 1x? They still sold 10 Million copies, even if the unique players are less than that it is still a good number for a MMORPG.
Skyrim sold around 23 Million copies in the first 4 years, ESO sold almost half of that. Considering that MMORPGs (not including WoW) never get close to Single Player RPGs in terms of box sales, 10 Millions is a pretty good achievement.
Last summer they announced 7M sales which means c.3M copies in about a year. In addition to some DLC and other stuff.
Yeah I already said that back on page 1.
Like I've already said multiple times on the thread that even though some people have more than 1 copy and have been counted more than once, that is a very small subset of the total population so it does not detract from the 10 million number much if at all.
I swear the lack of reading comprehension (not talking about you) in threads on this site are frightening.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
How any one can argue that those of us who have bought 3 units are not counted 3 times and think that this is a conspiracy or theory is beyond comprehension.
I never understood why people think that when a person buys 2 copies they somehow only are counted as 1. They got money for 2 separate games/accounts. How is that any different then 2 players each having only 1 account? I agree with you 100%. I think some people just like to split hairs for no other reason than to argue.
How any one can argue that those of us who have bought 3 units are not counted 3 times and think that this is a conspiracy or theory is beyond comprehension.
I never understood why people think that when a person buys 2 copies they somehow only are counted as 1. They got money for 2 separate games/accounts. How is that any different then 2 players each having only 1 account? I agree with you 100%. I think some people just like to split hairs for no other reason than to argue.
And it's not like it's a big deal. Those of us with multiple accounts are a small minority. The vast majority do buy just one. So 10 million units sold is probably pretty damn close to 10 million different people who have bought and played it.
Game's doing well and the interest continues. That's all that really matters.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Last summer they announced 7M sales which means c.3M copies in about a year. In addition to some DLC and other stuff.
Yeah I already said that back on page 1.
Like I've already said multiple times on the thread that even though some people have more than 1 copy and have been counted more than once, that is a very small subset of the total population so it does not detract from the 10 million number much if at all.
I swear the lack of reading comprehension (not talking about you) in threads on this site are frightening.
I know. As it was a few days ago though and given the number of rabbit holes I thought it was worth reiterating the point.
It's a buy to play game people. It is basically like saying you must spend X amount from the cash shop in order to play a F2P game. There is little difference.
This model still directly uses F2P model analytics where player retention and the percentage of players willing to buy from the cash shop. Purchased accounts as a metric is nothing more than guaranteed up front bonus income.
The real capital comes from the cash shop targeting those who spend the most by selective cash shop content and pricing. B2P simply adds content packs to the cash shop which would normally be free under a subscription model which forces players who wouldn't otherwise use the cash shop to use it.
Reporting the number of clients sold is a marketing gimmick. The REAL metrics are player retention and ratio of cash shop spenders which they will NEVER, EVER report .... ever, ever, ever.
Disagree.
Understand your logic but I postulate that the comparison is not valid for ESO. The reason being the game was designed as a sub based game and not a F2P game. Now I will agree that it is entirely possible to: a) design a F2P game, release it as a sub game and plan to make it f2p after a year say b) design a sub based game and convert it to a F2P cash shop driven game with all the analytics that go with it - and have an upfront B2P cost.
I suggest that mechanically ESO is not - at its core - a F2P cash shop driven game. It is a sub based game with a $0 sub. In the same way that WoW is a sub based game - with a non-zero sub.
For sure they will want as much money as possible. And for the cash shop element they will use analytics and data retention etc.
Without knowing the revenue breakdown however - sales / subs / cash shop - you cannot say that box sales is trivial. That would be like saying new car sales numbers are meaningless because it doesn't account for the spares and servicing revenue.
As I say I understand your logic but its also telling, I suggest, that Morrowind is not free to subscribers. To me that says the upfront B2P is non-trivial.
It's a buy to play game people. It is basically like saying you must spend X amount from the cash shop in order to play a F2P game. There is little difference.
This model still directly uses F2P model analytics where player retention and the percentage of players willing to buy from the cash shop. Purchased accounts as a metric is nothing more than guaranteed up front bonus income.
The real capital comes from the cash shop targeting those who spend the most by selective cash shop content and pricing. B2P simply adds content packs to the cash shop which would normally be free under a subscription model which forces players who wouldn't otherwise use the cash shop to use it.
Reporting the number of clients sold is a marketing gimmick. The REAL metrics are player retention and ratio of cash shop spenders which they will NEVER, EVER report .... ever, ever, ever.
Disagree.
Understand your logic but I postulate that the comparison is not valid for ESO. The reason being the game was designed as a sub based game and not a F2P game. Now I will agree that it is entirely possible to: a) design a F2P game, release it as a sub game and plan to make it f2p after a year say b) design a sub based game and convert it to a F2P cash shop driven game with all the analytics that go with it - and have an upfront B2P cost.
I suggest that mechanically ESO is not - at its core - a F2P cash shop driven game. It is a sub based game with a $0 sub. In the same way that WoW is a sub based game - with a non-zero sub.
For sure they will want as much money as possible. And for the cash shop element they will use analytics and data retention etc.
Without knowing the revenue breakdown however - sales / subs / cash shop - you cannot say that box sales is trivial. That would be like saying new car sales numbers are meaningless because it doesn't account for the spares and servicing revenue.
As I say I understand your logic but its also telling, I suggest, that Morrowind is not free to subscribers. To me that says the upfront B2P is non-trivial.
Disagree all you want but please head back to your Psych 101 class. He's right.
ESO is the best of all the Elder Scrolls games.... Single Player RPGs are SO lonely
On a certain level I understand your point, after playing oblvion for a few years I remember being in Skingrad watching a circle of npc's rotate around the city (a mod added npc's to beef it up a bit) and did get a sense of solitude (no joke intended ) seeing all the "life" pass my character by ...
Having said that, for me ESO is hardly the best Elder Scrolls game out there (I don't play games for companionship though I've met amazing people in online games over the years who I still stay in touch with) I play them for a certain experience (which is why, for me, game play doesn't trump art design).
Still I am having fun in this expansion. I did come home and with the idea of doing more "quests" decide to bypass Elder Scrolls Online for actual Morrowind because it gives me a better experience overall. But, glad you found an Elder Scrolls game that fills your gaming requirements.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
ESO is the best of all the Elder Scrolls games.... Single Player RPGs are SO lonely
It try to play Skyrim and I can for short stints. I love the new HD version that I got for free, but it feels so empty. It's not just Skyrim, most open world single player games feel that way to me. I keep wanting to see people running around doing "things" to make it feel like a world.
Well, Skyrim world feels alive to me thanks to random encounters and events. You walk along the road and many crazy things happen. Some are trivial and some are rare encounters, like the blue cow saga.
Yes, I do play the game and am familiar with that. They don't make the world feel alive anymore than GW2 dynamic events feel like they change the world. They feel like random scripted events which they are.
But Gw2 events works in cycles and repeats. Once you save the town the npcs open their shops until the next time in which the centaurs will try again, and again.
That's not the case with Skyrim.
If you trigger a certain non trivial event that's it. If a friendly NPC dies he gives an inheritance. Both situations aren't cyclic. They won't come back.
The world "changes". I think that's what makes the difference. And those chances, the variation, can be quite unique for every time you play.
But, of course, if your approach to something happening is "he is just a NPC I don't care" you'll hardly feel immersion.
And I'll pick a scripted random encounter with immersive NPCs over PssYKRUSHER99 /dancing half naked any day. I don't see how the later makes the world feel alive. For me it kills it.
A buddy of mine who only plays Elder Scrolls video games (never interested in any other) was playing skyrim one day and there was a dragon attack in Dragon Bridge. After the dragon was defeated he looked down to see one of the npc's "oh, no! Jerry!!!" (or whatever the name was).
There was the npc lying there, all contorted. I said "well, you can reload if you want and try to save him" but he said "nope, characters die, it's what makes it 'more real', I'll just soldier on".
For a person who would never be considered a "gamer" let alone an avid player, he is one of those people who really allows himself immersion.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
ESO is the best of all the Elder Scrolls games.... Single Player RPGs are SO lonely
It's why MMOs are so much better than even the best single player game. The most fun is playing with or even just watching unpredictable human players do their thing.
No better place for this in ESO than Cyrodiil where doing what appears at first glance to be the same thing you did yesterday is always different... love those chaotic fights even if they resolve themselves into the same outcome.
Same with random PVE dungeon PUGs and why I enjoy healing them with all the extra situational awareness you need to bring to the group in order to save the pew-pew archer who insists on being behind me outside the main healing area... even something as ultra-canned as those dungeon instances is always just a little bit different when 4 random humans bring their chaos into it.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
ESO is the best of all the Elder Scrolls games.... Single Player RPGs are SO lonely
It's why MMOs are so much better than even the best single player game. The most fun is playing with or even just watching unpredictable human players do their thing.
Depends on what you're after. Even though you can solo level in a lot of MMO's now I would never suggest someone choose an MMORPG for solo play. Single player games are a lot better at that.
The majority of MMORPG's are quite frankly only good because you are playing with others.
I think the game is solid and their pricing model is actually fair. To sell 10 million copies is a nice achievement. I remember back in 2012 when EA was hyping SWTOR because it had sold over 2 million copies. Ark is a solid game and has only sold around 5 million copies.
1. Ark has been avaible for purchase for less time 2. Ark is an Early Access title which alone scares a lot of people off 3. Ark doesnt remotely have in the same universe level of marketing spending and stradegy as Elder Scrolls title has and YES that makes a huge difference 4. Ark doesnt have name branding like 'elder scrolls'
its more accurate to compare Ark to Flappy Birds
It is more accurate to compare MMORPG sales to other MMORPGs.
no its not.
comparing the sales of Wurm to the sales of WoW or ESO is silly. THose games easily have marketing budgets larger then the entire development of a game like Wurm.
its delisional to think the two are in the same playing field when it comes to marketing
You do go all over the map. You didn't mention WURM, you put forth several non MMORPGs as examples to downplay the ESO figures
So lets compare it to all of the indie MMORPGS which have wildly successful sales with no marketing budget.
Wait, you can't. Now if you want to compare the success of GTA (all 5 versions) to Minecraft, go for it.
Blind justification. Consider the source.
You're arguing with a guy who would play with a pile of dog shit if someone told him it was in early access and indie.
ESO and Skyrim both have their place and I like them both for different reasons. I like the original experience in Skyrim and the fact that you can add additional content through mods, plus by watching streamers I find out about all the rare quests that I would never have come across on my own. Having Inigo fight by my side is great with him asking me why I have certain odd things in my inventory and fighting by my side.
ESO has some good quests and other players always keep it interesting.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I think some of you would like a Single Poster Forum better than Multi Poster Forums. You could have NPC post random stuff and converse and argue with you.
WOW! that NPC was brilliant and really opened my eyes to some interesting info!
OMG! that NPC was a dumbass and I will be troll'n him!
Geez! that NPC is giving bad advice to all those other NPCs... now they will go out there with terri-bad info and it could make this Single Poster Forum SO interesting!
I want SO bad to join that guild of NPCs... the interaction will really be captivating!
The Forum moderators like me best because I post interesting stuff and I don't cause as much drama as the other NPCs.
Comments
The only times Zenimax has specified what they're counting they've clearly said "units sold" as they did at E3 2016 when they said 7 million and then again last fall when they told Bill here it was 8.5. (http://www.mmorpg.com/elder-scrolls-online/news/matt-firor-85-million-eso-players-right-now-based-on-sales-1000043197)
How any one can argue that those of us who have bought 3 units are not counted 3 times and think that this is a conspiracy or theory is beyond comprehension.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
This model still directly uses F2P model analytics where player retention and the percentage of players willing to buy from the cash shop. Purchased accounts as a metric is nothing more than guaranteed up front bonus income.
The real capital comes from the cash shop targeting those who spend the most by selective cash shop content and pricing. B2P simply adds content packs to the cash shop which would normally be free under a subscription model which forces players who wouldn't otherwise use the cash shop to use it.
Reporting the number of clients sold is a marketing gimmick. The REAL metrics are player retention and ratio of cash shop spenders which they will NEVER, EVER report .... ever, ever, ever.
You stay sassy!
I am only speaking of the reality of B2P/F2P models and not commenting on how successful the game is. Please do not assume meaning beyond what is stated.
You stay sassy!
Steam numbers is about as valid as saying client sales reflects success in a cash shop model. Client sales doesn't even reflect ongoing success in a subscription game. You'd need to know exact subscription numbers just as you would require knowledge of each metric that makes up their B2P hybrid model ... and it is the model that they secretly protect.
Tossing partial metrics at us is largely for marketing reasons only but certainly reflects better upon actual success the higher the number is, if assuming their B2P model is at least moderately effective.
You stay sassy!
So another "good" year.
As to whether people who paid extra prior to Jun 2014 to get a console copy are counted as 1 sale or 2 its possible they could have factored these out - more likely they just added the PC, XB1 and PS4 ESO account totals together.
Note: each platform is independent same as e.g. WoW regions - I first bought WoW in the US and when I next played it I was in EU so had to buy it again (holy smoke Batman that means I have been counted as 2 sales).
Either way the number - it is reasonable to assume - will have been small. ESO wasn't setting the sales charts on fire; no sales totals at all had been released; B2P wouldn't be announced till Jan 2015; it was unclear whether the console version would have a sub or not (even on PS4 since the original launch had been pulled.)
To reiterate though: at the end of the day c.3M sales in the c. last 12 months.
Does it matter if someone bought 3x copies rather than 1x?
They still sold 10 Million copies, even if the unique players are less than that it is still a good number for a MMORPG.
Skyrim sold around 23 Million copies in the first 4 years, ESO sold almost half of that.
Considering that MMORPGs (not including WoW) never get close to Single Player RPGs in terms of box sales, 10 Millions is a pretty good achievement.
Like I've already said multiple times on the thread that even though some people have more than 1 copy and have been counted more than once, that is a very small subset of the total population so it does not detract from the 10 million number much if at all.
I swear the lack of reading comprehension (not talking about you) in threads on this site are frightening.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
Game's doing well and the interest continues. That's all that really matters.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I know. As it was a few days ago though and given the number of rabbit holes I thought it was worth reiterating the point.
(And I agree.)
Disagree.
Understand your logic but I postulate that the comparison is not valid for ESO. The reason being the game was designed as a sub based game and not a F2P game. Now I will agree that it is entirely possible to:
a) design a F2P game, release it as a sub game and plan to make it f2p after a year say
b) design a sub based game and convert it to a F2P cash shop driven game with all the analytics that go with it - and have an upfront B2P cost.
I suggest that mechanically ESO is not - at its core - a F2P cash shop driven game. It is a sub based game with a $0 sub. In the same way that WoW is a sub based game - with a non-zero sub.
For sure they will want as much money as possible. And for the cash shop element they will use analytics and data retention etc.
Without knowing the revenue breakdown however - sales / subs / cash shop - you cannot say that box sales is trivial. That would be like saying new car sales numbers are meaningless because it doesn't account for the spares and servicing revenue.
As I say I understand your logic but its also telling, I suggest, that Morrowind is not free to subscribers. To me that says the upfront B2P is non-trivial.
ESO should really be approached as a MMO first, not elder scrolls first.
Having said that, for me ESO is hardly the best Elder Scrolls game out there (I don't play games for companionship though I've met amazing people in online games over the years who I still stay in touch with) I play them for a certain experience (which is why, for me, game play doesn't trump art design).
Still I am having fun in this expansion. I did come home and with the idea of doing more "quests" decide to bypass Elder Scrolls Online for actual Morrowind because it gives me a better experience overall. But, glad you found an Elder Scrolls game that fills your gaming requirements.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
There was the npc lying there, all contorted. I said "well, you can reload if you want and try to save him" but he said "nope, characters die, it's what makes it 'more real', I'll just soldier on".
For a person who would never be considered a "gamer" let alone an avid player, he is one of those people who really allows himself immersion.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
No better place for this in ESO than Cyrodiil where doing what appears at first glance to be the same thing you did yesterday is always different... love those chaotic fights even if they resolve themselves into the same outcome.
Same with random PVE dungeon PUGs and why I enjoy healing them with all the extra situational awareness you need to bring to the group in order to save the pew-pew archer who insists on being behind me outside the main healing area... even something as ultra-canned as those dungeon instances is always just a little bit different when 4 random humans bring their chaos into it.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The majority of MMORPG's are quite frankly only good because you are playing with others.
You're arguing with a guy who would play with a pile of dog shit if someone told him it was in early access and indie.
~~ postlarval ~~
ESO has some good quests and other players always keep it interesting.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
WOW! that NPC was brilliant and really opened my eyes to some interesting info!
OMG! that NPC was a dumbass and I will be troll'n him!
Geez! that NPC is giving bad advice to all those other NPCs... now they will go out there with terri-bad info and it could make this Single Poster Forum SO interesting!
I want SO bad to join that guild of NPCs... the interaction will really be captivating!
The Forum moderators like me best because I post interesting stuff and I don't cause as much drama as the other NPCs.
LOL!!!
Sz