AA cash shop allows you to sell almost everything for in-game cash.
Elaborate on this statement I find it rather confusing, define 'everything'.
Sorry about that - my wording wad terrible and unclear.
Let me rephrase
About 99.9% of items bought in cash shop are sellable in Auction House in ArcheAge - meaning players can buy most cash shop items for in game currency.
In Contrast - in BDO most commonly bought cash shop items - inventory slots, weight limit increase, artesian memory, elions tears are not sellable in the Auctio House - so players must use the cash shop to obtain them.
That was my point
AA is more of a real cash game similar to Wushu
edit - Need golds? Buy from cash shop place on AH. Items have a real dollar value. Wanna save time pay cash to a rmt.
Sorry about that - my wording wad terrible and unclear.
Let me rephrase
About 99.9% of items bought in cash shop are sellable in Auction House in ArcheAge - meaning players can buy most cash shop items for in game currency.
In Contrast - in BDO most commonly bought cash shop items - inventory slots, weight limit increase, artesian memory, elions tears are not sellable in the Auctio House - so players must use the cash shop to obtain them.
That was my point
Ok I get that, and that's true.
But the thing is, those items that you claim are commonly bought at the BDO CS are not actually needed, they are commodities for people who hasn't got time to actual play the game. As I mention in another post: You can Double your Inventory space by doing all the main quests. You can Double your Weight Limit by training your Stamina. Elions Tears are not necessary anymore now that they changed how World Boss Loot is distributed. Artisan Memories are really tempting I admit, but not really needed either, the +0 BiS gear is now pretty common and easy to acquire.
In AA though there many Items which are actually needed and don't have a substitute in the actual game-play which is the biggest difference between AA CS and BDO CS. AA CS also sell items that influence the game economy quite heavily like the Thunderstruck Tree which was the only way for farmers to make actual money, but then the Market was flooded by Thunderstruck Trees coming from the CS and the price of the item literally collapsed overnight, penalizing people who actually invested time playing the game (like me, I am still fucking mad at it). There is none of this shit in BDO.
Wow , I had forgotten WHY I had stopped reading MMORPG.com. It's not the OP, who is being nice about a game that is terrible,. It's all the "know it alls" who have to refute his opinions on the game. So many douchebags, so many!
The game is terrible.
Your class determines your appearance. Every player is Human in a fantasy world. (ie all wizards are old men). There are elves, dwarves and orcs, BUT you can't play them.
Combat is like a fighting game (ie Mortal Kombat) where the key mapping is locked and daring to put things that can be moved on to a quickslot , cost you more to use. Really?!?! Action combat at it's worst!
The game encourages AFK play, maybe that's why the servers are "over crowded" and laggy, maybe , you think? It will only turn into an AFK graveyard like SWG pre-CU.
Overall, at level 50, I have been exposed to a disjointed story viewed through a clunky awkward interface. Mobs die really easy and respawn stupidly fast. The guide encourages you to grind mobs, really.. Hey go grind random monsters so you can get more cocaine so you can grind more monsters for...profit?
The best part about your story is for all of the complaints, you stuck with it until Level 50.
We may not know it all, but at least we know enough not to play games we don't like.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wow , I had forgotten WHY I had stopped reading MMORPG.com. It's not the OP, who is being nice about a game that is terrible,. It's all the "know it alls" who have to refute his opinions on the game. So many douchebags, so many!
The game is terrible.
Your class determines your appearance. Every player is Human in a fantasy world. (ie all wizards are old men). There are elves, dwarves and orcs, BUT you can't play them.
Combat is like a fighting game (ie Mortal Kombat) where the key mapping is locked and daring to put things that can be moved on to a quickslot , cost you more to use. Really?!?! Action combat at it's worst!
The game encourages AFK play, maybe that's why the servers are "over crowded" and laggy, maybe , you think? It will only turn into an AFK graveyard like SWG pre-CU.
Overall, at level 50, I have been exposed to a disjointed story viewed through a clunky awkward interface. Mobs die really easy and respawn stupidly fast. The guide encourages you to grind mobs, really.. Hey go grind random monsters so you can get more cocaine so you can grind more monsters for...profit?
The best part about your story is for all of the complaints, you stuck with it until Level 50.
We may not know it all, but at least we know enough not to play games we don't like.
But , honestly Kyleran lvl 50 in BDO is no accomplishment at all , very very easy to do , And i think actually some one hardcore could attain 50 in under 48 hours played ..
Wow , I had forgotten WHY I had stopped reading MMORPG.com. It's not the OP, who is being nice about a game that is terrible,. It's all the "know it alls" who have to refute his opinions on the game. So many douchebags, so many!
The game is terrible.
How is informing people who hardly played the game a bad thing?
One thing is giving a personal opinion. You say the game is terrible. That's your opinion, and that's fine. Nothing to discuss.
Another thing is giving incorrect information to make the game look worse than it is. That's not cool.
The OP mention the CS as BDO main problem. Clearly he hasn't played the game enough or he would have known there is much worse stuff that deserved to be mentioned. Considering it was supposed to be a 'review' it's actually piss poor. The CS, as I tried to explain is not actually such a big deal if you know how the game works, while there are other game features which are either broken or poorly designed which are never mentioned in his 'review'.
The OP just went for the CS because that's what everyone talks about all the time, and he just repeated the same tired things like a parrot, without knowing how the game actually works.
Sorry for being a douchebag and informing people who don't have a clue what they are talking about. Let's all stay ignorant for the sake of being nice, shall we?
Best open world in the genre. One of the most "themepark" MMO's. PVP nerfed so far it's actually pointless, but still allows ganking!?!?!?. Grindfest, other mechanics completely pointless as all outstripped by grinding (save poss horse training which at least has a point).
If you enjoy the simplicity of non-stop grinding in a beautiful world and are not competitive with your peers (or can pay), this game is for you. It really is superb if that's your thing.
Elions tears - at high level those lag deaths = hours of XP loss, so they are a must
To be fair, they've been handing these suckers out like candy with all the BSA events. And I think some of the past attendance awards granted some too. I don't grind all that often, so I'm literally swimming in those tears now. xD
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
None of the free stuff is enough for any 60+ player I met - go in game and ask them.
Double inventory - nowhere near enough especially for those who fish and gather - ask any high rank life skill (especailly fishing) how much inventory they have - yep 150+
Double weight - this is nowhere enough even if you are just grinding and don't do any life skills - the cash shop offers +500 weight - and again without this your farming time and carry capacity to max cash will be severely impacted. - Again ask any 60+ player in game - they all have spend $46 to have additional +500 weight
Elions tears - at high level those lag deaths = hours of XP loss, so they are a must
Artisian memory - oh it's more than just tempting, it's necessary to for many to repair their gear without spending 3X on the sacrifice gear, because loyalty ones cost 400 which means you can use those 3 times every 2 weeks - this is why so many have multiples of BiS set so they can repair failures
I have 3x 60+ and I play every part of the game, PvP, PvE, Crafting, Farming, Trading, Fishing, Horse Breeding, and I can assure you I never bought any of that shit. Inventory Space and Weight Limit are enough for at least a Couple of hours of grinding, and for Crafting you mainly use the Warehouse. The only time the Inventory space almost reach the limit is when I Fish, but before I start I always empty my Inventory.
As for Elions Tears I rotate my Characters to do World Bosses, I use the one that just hit the next level with 0 XP because the characters cannot de-level. Once another character reach the next level I use that one to do the World Bosses, and I switch to the previous character to leveling him up.
Artisan Memory, again is about playing the game casual. I have more Gold than I can spend because I play the game, so I can afford to repair the BiS Items with the 0+ Version.
It comes down always to the same argument. People who play casual or lazy people probably need to use the CS (That's what is for). For the rest of the people who dedicate enough time and know how to play the game, the CS is irrelevant.
I agree with you that the fact you can't trade between players is utterly retarded but that's another matter (something that should have gone in the OP review rather than the CS bullshit).
Artesian memories - yep - the real cash cow of BDO
The sad part is he wrote his post completely oblivious to WHY the RNG system is setup up the way it is - so that people like him keep throwing money at the cash shop.
The answer to his post lies in the very title - 400 Artesian memories = $200 spent
The only thing preventing the rng cash sinks in games from being gambling is that you don't have a chance to win real money but damn that sure looks like gambling.
The answer to his post lies in the very title - 400 Artesian memories = $200 spent
Lack of impulse control is a beautiful thing for MMOs with cash shops. Also, let's not try to sell the 32 fails thing as the standard. That's an example of extremely bad luck, and you know it.
That being said, I have no doubt that the players obsessed with racing to the top throw tons and tons of money at the damn things.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Artesian memories - yep - the real cash cow of BDO
The sad part is he wrote his post completely oblivious to WHY the RNG system is setup up the way it is - so that people like him keep throwing money at the cash shop.
The answer to his post lies in the very title - 400 Artesian memories = $200 spent
Yep, Artisan's Memories is what I spent money on when I came back to check out the awakening weapon for Witch. I had a few million silver left over from when I played, but I'd need much more to get it +15 (a decent level to check out the changes), so I spent some money on artisan's memories. I could've just grinded the silver over a few days, but I wasn't sure I even wanted to play the game anymore (turns out I don't).
And that weapon was very cheap to upgrade.
The important part of all this is what the guy you quoted says:
"So it is in the companies BEST INTEREST for you to fail as much as possible"
The reason why selling expansions/subscription is a good model for gamers is because it's in the company's best interest that you continue to have fun and stay engaged with the game, and they must offer new and fun content.
Basically, you want the monetization model to align with your interests as much as possible. When it's "Pay to Enjoy", they are forced to find ways to make you NOT enjoy the game so that you pay.
BDO's so-called "free expansions" are just more of the same. There's no group content. Nothing changes. Solo-grinding at pirates is still the best way to advance.
Artesian memories - yep - the real cash cow of BDO
The sad part is he wrote his post completely oblivious to WHY the RNG system is setup up the way it is - so that people like him keep throwing money at the cash shop.
The answer to his post lies in the very title - 400 Artesian memories = $200 spent
Yep, Artisan's Memories is what I spent money on when I came back to check out the awakening weapon for Witch. I had a few million silver left over from when I played, but I'd need much more to get it +15 (a decent level to check out the changes), so I spent some money on artisan's memories. I could've just grinded the silver over a few days, but I wasn't sure I even wanted to play the game anymore (turns out I don't).
And that weapon was very cheap to upgrade.
The important part of all this is what the guy you quoted says:
"So it is in the companies BEST INTEREST for you to fail as much as possible"
The reason why selling expansions/subscription is a good model for gamers is because it's in the company's best interest that you continue to have fun and stay engaged with the game, and they must offer new and fun content.
Basically, you want the monetization model to align with your interests as much as possible. When it's "Pay to Enjoy", they are forced to find ways to make you NOT enjoy the game so that you pay.
BDO's so-called "free expansions" are just more of the same. There's no group content. Nothing changes. Solo-grinding at pirates is still the best way to advance.
BDO is very much a solo centric game - because it frankly doesn't handle large scale PvP nor PvE too well as too many players engaged in active combat in one area = lagfest.
I think Kakao realizes this and has shifted the game to - basically 95% solo experience (AFK fishing, solo gathering/training horses and solo grinding) - the group/guild aspects such as sieges/node wars are about 5% of the game.
Kamasilve is being retrofitted apparently to add more grind spots in the 50-60 range to be friendly to solo western playerbase.
Personally, I'd go further. I think they don't want you to have fun with others because they don't want you to have fun. They want you to struggle in the hopes that eventually you crack and turn to the shop to alleviate frustration.
Having the endgame revolve around solo-grinding in 1 or 2 spots is the best way to accomplish this.
I think people like Ste2000 do not give them enough credit. They think Kakao is just nice when they give away more stuff than any MMO in history when you log in. They think the only targets for the shop are casual players, ignoring the fact that the biggest spenders are the least casual players.
I think BDO was created from the ground up with a brand new monetization strategy in mind. It defies definition, although I think "Pay to Enjoy" is an apt description. It's not obvious, so people like Ste2000 can feel completely justified when defending it. It's not clearly p2w. It appears at first glance to be extremely generous.
I do consider it rather brilliant. Evil, but brilliant. I actually consider it worse than straight up p2w. At least with p2w, the game is designed for you to fully enjoy the content up to the part where you supposedly "win". At least there is something in the game worth trying to win.
Artesian memories - yep - the real cash cow of BDO
The sad part is he wrote his post completely oblivious to WHY the RNG system is setup up the way it is - so that people like him keep throwing money at the cash shop.
The answer to his post lies in the very title - 400 Artesian memories = $200 spent
Yep, Artisan's Memories is what I spent money on when I came back to check out the awakening weapon for Witch. I had a few million silver left over from when I played, but I'd need much more to get it +15 (a decent level to check out the changes), so I spent some money on artisan's memories. I could've just grinded the silver over a few days, but I wasn't sure I even wanted to play the game anymore (turns out I don't).
And that weapon was very cheap to upgrade.
The important part of all this is what the guy you quoted says:
"So it is in the companies BEST INTEREST for you to fail as much as possible"
The reason why selling expansions/subscription is a good model for gamers is because it's in the company's best interest that you continue to have fun and stay engaged with the game, and they must offer new and fun content.
Basically, you want the monetization model to align with your interests as much as possible. When it's "Pay to Enjoy", they are forced to find ways to make you NOT enjoy the game so that you pay.
BDO's so-called "free expansions" are just more of the same. There's no group content. Nothing changes. Solo-grinding at pirates is still the best way to advance.
BDO is very much a solo centric game - because it frankly doesn't handle large scale PvP nor PvE too well as too many players engaged in active combat in one area = lagfest.
I think Kakao realizes this and has shifted the game to - basically 95% solo experience (AFK fishing, solo gathering/training horses and solo grinding) - the group/guild aspects such as sieges/node wars are about 5% of the game.
Kamasilve is being retrofitted apparently to add more grind spots in the 50-60 range to be friendly to solo western playerbase.
Personally, I'd go further. I think they don't want you to have fun with others because they don't want you to have fun. They want you to struggle in the hopes that eventually you crack and turn to the shop to alleviate frustration.
Having the endgame revolve around solo-grinding in 1 or 2 spots is the best way to accomplish this.
I think people like Ste2000 do not give them enough credit. They think Kakao is just nice when they give away more stuff than any MMO in history when you log in. They think the only targets for the shop are casual players, ignoring the fact that the biggest spenders are the least casual players.
I think BDO was created from the ground up with a brand new monetization strategy in mind. It defies definition, although I think "Pay to Enjoy" is an apt description. It's not obvious, so people like Ste2000 can feel completely justified when defending it. It's not clearly p2w. It appears at first glance to be extremely generous.
I do consider it rather brilliant. Evil, but brilliant. I actually consider it worse than straight up p2w. At least with p2w, the game is designed for you to fully enjoy the content up to the part where you supposedly "win". At least there is something in the game worth trying to win.
I told you it was briliant, glad to see you agree.
P2E is in some ways worse, because the base gameplay is nearly unenjoyable (BDO without pets is just awful to play).
It's funny how you're implying anyone that plays or will play BDO is a hardcore player.
Artesian memories - yep - the real cash cow of BDO
The sad part is he wrote his post completely oblivious to WHY the RNG system is setup up the way it is - so that people like him keep throwing money at the cash shop.
The answer to his post lies in the very title - 400 Artesian memories = $200 spent
Yep, Artisan's Memories is what I spent money on when I came back to check out the awakening weapon for Witch. I had a few million silver left over from when I played, but I'd need much more to get it +15 (a decent level to check out the changes), so I spent some money on artisan's memories. I could've just grinded the silver over a few days, but I wasn't sure I even wanted to play the game anymore (turns out I don't).
And that weapon was very cheap to upgrade.
The important part of all this is what the guy you quoted says:
"So it is in the companies BEST INTEREST for you to fail as much as possible"
The reason why selling expansions/subscription is a good model for gamers is because it's in the company's best interest that you continue to have fun and stay engaged with the game, and they must offer new and fun content.
Basically, you want the monetization model to align with your interests as much as possible. When it's "Pay to Enjoy", they are forced to find ways to make you NOT enjoy the game so that you pay.
BDO's so-called "free expansions" are just more of the same. There's no group content. Nothing changes. Solo-grinding at pirates is still the best way to advance.
BDO is very much a solo centric game - because it frankly doesn't handle large scale PvP nor PvE too well as too many players engaged in active combat in one area = lagfest.
I think Kakao realizes this and has shifted the game to - basically 95% solo experience (AFK fishing, solo gathering/training horses and solo grinding) - the group/guild aspects such as sieges/node wars are about 5% of the game.
Kamasilve is being retrofitted apparently to add more grind spots in the 50-60 range to be friendly to solo western playerbase.
Personally, I'd go further. I think they don't want you to have fun with others because they don't want you to have fun. They want you to struggle in the hopes that eventually you crack and turn to the shop to alleviate frustration.
Having the endgame revolve around solo-grinding in 1 or 2 spots is the best way to accomplish this.
I think people like Ste2000 do not give them enough credit. They think Kakao is just nice when they give away more stuff than any MMO in history when you log in. They think the only targets for the shop are casual players, ignoring the fact that the biggest spenders are the least casual players.
I think BDO was created from the ground up with a brand new monetization strategy in mind. It defies definition, although I think "Pay to Enjoy" is an apt description. It's not obvious, so people like Ste2000 can feel completely justified when defending it. It's not clearly p2w. It appears at first glance to be extremely generous.
I do consider it rather brilliant. Evil, but brilliant. I actually consider it worse than straight up p2w. At least with p2w, the game is designed for you to fully enjoy the content up to the part where you supposedly "win". At least there is something in the game worth trying to win.
I told you it was briliant, glad to see you agree.
P2E is in some ways worse, because the base gameplay is nearly unenjoyable (BDO without pets is just awful to play).
You can play and enjoy the game really cheap (less than $50). You can also dump money into if you want. If people are stupid and pour money down the drain to try and get that edge then that's their choice.
Yeah and I hear you can play EVE with only one account.
While true of course your level of enjoyment can go up substantially with multiple accounts being to perform a variety of activities on your own.
Same here really, those enjoyment features can provide improved quality of life both within the game world and in real life as well.
As for buying things to gain an edge many of us have been doing this most of our lives.
Better golf clubs, a bigger "driver" (always popular with the ladies ), top end bicycles with titanium alloy frames etc this is not uncommon behavior.
I recall my first experience back in the 60s (before fire) when I convinced my mother to buy me a pair of "Red Ball Jets."
Remember how they were supposed to make you "run faster and jump higher?"
I'm still buying overpriced running shoes (now with expensive inserts) but performance isn't the issue.
These days I'm trying to prevent hurting myself any more than I already have.
One knee surgery is quite enough thank you.
We all spend money on gear to enhance ourselves, just maybe not in video games
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I didn't read through anyone's posts, but I assume nobody is going to mention what I'm about to say:
the combat in BDO is completely client side. when you attack an enemy, the server won't necessarily connect your attack if there's a desync or lag. there (were/are) speed hacks that allow you to repeatedly cast skills without delay -- INCLUDING ultimate abilities. hackers were always doing top tier damage in world boss fights -- and the loot would go to the group with highest dps. this means that only hackers had the ability to get TOP TIER WORLD BOSS LOOT. hackers weren't even able to win versus hackers because there were too many people cheating.
you guys can complain about cash shops and premium subscriptions all you want, but the reality of the game is that you will never win fairly -- even if you invest whale money.
Here's a new post from BDO forums - this poor guy had 32 TET failures - but that's not the interesting part -
Artesian memories - yep - the real cash cow of BDO
The sad part is he wrote his post completely oblivious to WHY the RNG system is setup up the way it is - so that people like him keep throwing money at the cash shop.
The answer to his post lies in the very title - 400 Artesian memories = $200 spent
Oh I am sure there are plenty of those examples, but that doesn't contradict what I keep saying all the time. If you want to get the best gear in 1 week rather than let's say, few months (as it should be), this kind of things are bound to happen. Again this is about people playing casually who want to catch up fast with the rest of the players, that's the kind of people the CS is aimed at. The CS is not aimed at regular players who play the game with dedication and are there for the long run, players that knows that getting the best gear will take months, not weeks.
Kakao needs to survive after all, they needs this kind of people who buy stuff from their CS, because if they were all like me who knows how to play the game and plan for the long run, Kakao would close doors within a month.
You know how many times I got stuck on a particular gear level, you have no idea how many Billions I spent to upgrade my gear and how many times I failed. It is frustrating and it is tempting to just buy Artisan Memories to save you another few weeks of grinding, but eventually I like to play the game and I like BDO grind, and slowly but steadily I got myself a badass Gear Set, it took me 8 months instead of 2 months, but it has been worth it.
Those 8 months has been fun because I enjoyed the game, it never felt like a grind, but if people want to pay their way up and get their best gear in 2 months time instead of my 8 months, be my guest. But in all honesty, they are doing it wrong, that's not how you play a MMORPG....that's what I call instant gratification at its worst (because they are actually paying to get that instant gratification)....and that's what's wrong with modern MMORPGs and Players in my opinion.
And for those who are not believing that quite a
few players have spent over $2000 on BDO - you can see screenshots of
people's charge history in this thread:
Stop quoting those numbers, they prove no point. I am sure there are people who spent more than $2000 in BDO CS. As I explained above, Casual people with no patience and plenty of money do that to catch up fast. If you play the game properly that's completely avoidable.
I
really don't know why you are so obsessed with BDO Cash Shop while you
seem to never criticize AA CS which is possibly the worst CS ever
created. Yet even though I am not a big fan, you don't see me flooding the AA boards with my complaints about their CS. BDO
is more successful than AA, get over it, it is probably one of the few
MMORPGs where the numbers of players goes up rather than down, and
that's is mainly due to his CS which is totally optional, which allows
them to retain most of the Free Players which usually jump from game to
game once they hit the CS wall, in BDO there is not such a wall, and
Free Players stick with the game.
Bottom line is: If AA had BDO CS or Rift CS, I would probably still be playing the game, as AA PvE is far superior than BDO, and I usually play MMORPGs for their PvE. Trion went completely retarded when they implemented AA CS, particularly because Rift CS was one of the best around.
I didn't read through anyone's posts, but I assume nobody is going to mention what I'm about to say:
the combat in BDO is completely client side. when you attack an enemy, the server won't necessarily connect your attack if there's a desync or lag. there (were/are) speed hacks that allow you to repeatedly cast skills without delay -- INCLUDING ultimate abilities. hackers were always doing top tier damage in world boss fights -- and the loot would go to the group with highest dps. this means that only hackers had the ability to get TOP TIER WORLD BOSS LOOT. hackers weren't even able to win versus hackers because there were too many people cheating.
you guys can complain about cash shops and premium subscriptions all you want, but the reality of the game is that you will never win fairly -- even if you invest whale money.
LOL, that's because 2016 is in the past, buddy. They fixed that LONG ago.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Artesian memories - yep - the real cash cow of BDO
The sad part is he wrote his post completely oblivious to WHY the RNG system is setup up the way it is - so that people like him keep throwing money at the cash shop.
The answer to his post lies in the very title - 400 Artesian memories = $200 spent
Yep, Artisan's Memories is what I spent money on when I came back to check out the awakening weapon for Witch. I had a few million silver left over from when I played, but I'd need much more to get it +15 (a decent level to check out the changes), so I spent some money on artisan's memories. I could've just grinded the silver over a few days, but I wasn't sure I even wanted to play the game anymore (turns out I don't).
And that weapon was very cheap to upgrade.
The important part of all this is what the guy you quoted says:
"So it is in the companies BEST INTEREST for you to fail as much as possible"
The reason why selling expansions/subscription is a good model for gamers is because it's in the company's best interest that you continue to have fun and stay engaged with the game, and they must offer new and fun content.
Basically, you want the monetization model to align with your interests as much as possible. When it's "Pay to Enjoy", they are forced to find ways to make you NOT enjoy the game so that you pay.
BDO's so-called "free expansions" are just more of the same. There's no group content. Nothing changes. Solo-grinding at pirates is still the best way to advance.
BDO is very much a solo centric game - because it frankly doesn't handle large scale PvP nor PvE too well as too many players engaged in active combat in one area = lagfest.
I think Kakao realizes this and has shifted the game to - basically 95% solo experience (AFK fishing, solo gathering/training horses and solo grinding) - the group/guild aspects such as sieges/node wars are about 5% of the game.
Kamasilve is being retrofitted apparently to add more grind spots in the 50-60 range to be friendly to solo western playerbase.
Personally, I'd go further. I think they don't want you to have fun with others because they don't want you to have fun. They want you to struggle in the hopes that eventually you crack and turn to the shop to alleviate frustration.
Having the endgame revolve around solo-grinding in 1 or 2 spots is the best way to accomplish this.
I think people like Ste2000 do not give them enough credit. They think Kakao is just nice when they give away more stuff than any MMO in history when you log in. They think the only targets for the shop are casual players, ignoring the fact that the biggest spenders are the least casual players.
I think BDO was created from the ground up with a brand new monetization strategy in mind. It defies definition, although I think "Pay to Enjoy" is an apt description. It's not obvious, so people like Ste2000 can feel completely justified when defending it. It's not clearly p2w. It appears at first glance to be extremely generous.
I do consider it rather brilliant. Evil, but brilliant. I actually consider it worse than straight up p2w. At least with p2w, the game is designed for you to fully enjoy the content up to the part where you supposedly "win". At least there is something in the game worth trying to win.
I told you it was briliant, glad to see you agree.
P2E is in some ways worse, because the base gameplay is nearly unenjoyable (BDO without pets is just awful to play).
It is certainly brilliant, in the same way the guys at Enron that got away with it are brilliant.
It's clear to me they spent a lot of time on the monetization model, taking lessons from the booming mobile market, and factored it into every aspect of the game.
Personally, I'd rather Devs spend the majority of their time devising a game that's fun. And I think there's plenty of evidence that players will pay as much or more for "fun" as they will to avoid not enjoying a game.
BDO is certainly not alone in having an anti-player monetization model, but it bugs me more than others because much of the game is actually pretty amazing. The graphics, the subsystems, the combat, the music- they're all really well done, and that's really hard to pull off.
The game has problems (mostly with servers/pop-in), but this is the first time I've seen that a game spent a lot of time on quality while going for the phone-game model of "Pay to Enjoy". Normally the general quality of "pay to enjoy" games is very low, so it's frustrating looking at what this game could have been.
Comments
edit - Need golds? Buy from cash shop place on AH. Items have a real dollar value. Wanna save time pay cash to a rmt.
But the thing is, those items that you claim are commonly bought at the BDO CS are not actually needed, they are commodities for people who hasn't got time to actual play the game.
As I mention in another post:
You can Double your Inventory space by doing all the main quests.
You can Double your Weight Limit by training your Stamina.
Elions Tears are not necessary anymore now that they changed how World Boss Loot is distributed.
Artisan Memories are really tempting I admit, but not really needed either, the +0 BiS gear is now pretty common and easy to acquire.
In AA though there many Items which are actually needed and don't have a substitute in the actual game-play which is the biggest difference between AA CS and BDO CS.
AA CS also sell items that influence the game economy quite heavily like the Thunderstruck Tree which was the only way for farmers to make actual money, but then the Market was flooded by Thunderstruck Trees coming from the CS and the price of the item literally collapsed overnight, penalizing people who actually invested time playing the game (like me, I am still fucking mad at it).
There is none of this shit in BDO.
We may not know it all, but at least we know enough not to play games we don't like.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
played ..
My bad .... updated .. its been done in under 15 hours ....
http://2p.com/41167276_1/Black-Desert-Online-Fast-Leveling-Guide-Level-1--50-in-15-Hours-by-cindyhio.htm
Im also certain that Helen Keller(if alive) could attain lvl 50 in BDO in under 2 weeks
How is informing people who hardly played the game a bad thing?
One thing is giving a personal opinion.
You say the game is terrible.
That's your opinion, and that's fine.
Nothing to discuss.
Another thing is giving incorrect information to make the game look worse than it is.
That's not cool.
The OP mention the CS as BDO main problem.
Clearly he hasn't played the game enough or he would have known there is much worse stuff that deserved to be mentioned.
Considering it was supposed to be a 'review' it's actually piss poor.
The CS, as I tried to explain is not actually such a big deal if you know how the game works, while there are other game features which are either broken or poorly designed which are never mentioned in his 'review'.
The OP just went for the CS because that's what everyone talks about all the time, and he just repeated the same tired things like a parrot, without knowing how the game actually works.
Sorry for being a douchebag and informing people who don't have a clue what they are talking about.
Let's all stay ignorant for the sake of being nice, shall we?
One of the most "themepark" MMO's.
PVP nerfed so far it's actually pointless, but still allows ganking!?!?!?.
Grindfest, other mechanics completely pointless as all outstripped by grinding (save poss horse training which at least has a point).
If you enjoy the simplicity of non-stop grinding in a beautiful world and are not competitive with your peers (or can pay), this game is for you. It really is superb if that's your thing.
All others, move along, nothing to see here.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Inventory Space and Weight Limit are enough for at least a Couple of hours of grinding, and for Crafting you mainly use the Warehouse.
The only time the Inventory space almost reach the limit is when I Fish, but before I start I always empty my Inventory.
As for Elions Tears I rotate my Characters to do World Bosses, I use the one that just hit the next level with 0 XP because the characters cannot de-level. Once another character reach the next level I use that one to do the World Bosses, and I switch to the previous character to leveling him up.
Artisan Memory, again is about playing the game casual.
I have more Gold than I can spend because I play the game, so I can afford to repair the BiS Items with the 0+ Version.
It comes down always to the same argument.
People who play casual or lazy people probably need to use the CS (That's what is for).
For the rest of the people who dedicate enough time and know how to play the game, the CS is irrelevant.
I agree with you that the fact you can't trade between players is utterly retarded but that's another matter (something that should have gone in the OP review rather than the CS bullshit).
Also, let's not try to sell the 32 fails thing as the standard. That's an example of extremely bad luck, and you know it.
That being said, I have no doubt that the players obsessed with racing to the top throw tons and tons of money at the damn things.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Yep, Artisan's Memories is what I spent money on when I came back to check out the awakening weapon for Witch. I had a few million silver left over from when I played, but I'd need much more to get it +15 (a decent level to check out the changes), so I spent some money on artisan's memories. I could've just grinded the silver over a few days, but I wasn't sure I even wanted to play the game anymore (turns out I don't).
And that weapon was very cheap to upgrade.
The important part of all this is what the guy you quoted says:
"So it is in the companies BEST INTEREST for you to fail as much as possible"
The reason why selling expansions/subscription is a good model for gamers is because it's in the company's best interest that you continue to have fun and stay engaged with the game, and they must offer new and fun content.
Basically, you want the monetization model to align with your interests as much as possible. When it's "Pay to Enjoy", they are forced to find ways to make you NOT enjoy the game so that you pay.
BDO's so-called "free expansions" are just more of the same. There's no group content. Nothing changes. Solo-grinding at pirates is still the best way to advance.
Personally, I'd go further. I think they don't want you to have fun with others because they don't want you to have fun. They want you to struggle in the hopes that eventually you crack and turn to the shop to alleviate frustration.
Having the endgame revolve around solo-grinding in 1 or 2 spots is the best way to accomplish this.
I think people like Ste2000 do not give them enough credit. They think Kakao is just nice when they give away more stuff than any MMO in history when you log in. They think the only targets for the shop are casual players, ignoring the fact that the biggest spenders are the least casual players.
I think BDO was created from the ground up with a brand new monetization strategy in mind. It defies definition, although I think "Pay to Enjoy" is an apt description. It's not obvious, so people like Ste2000 can feel completely justified when defending it. It's not clearly p2w. It appears at first glance to be extremely generous.
I do consider it rather brilliant. Evil, but brilliant. I actually consider it worse than straight up p2w. At least with p2w, the game is designed for you to fully enjoy the content up to the part where you supposedly "win". At least there is something in the game worth trying to win.
I'm sure casual players can't play without pets.
While true of course your level of enjoyment can go up substantially with multiple accounts being to perform a variety of activities on your own.
Same here really, those enjoyment features can provide improved quality of life both within the game world and in real life as well.
As for buying things to gain an edge many of us have been doing this most of our lives.
Better golf clubs, a bigger "driver" (always popular with the ladies
I recall my first experience back in the 60s (before fire) when I convinced my mother to buy me a pair of "Red Ball Jets."
Remember how they were supposed to make you "run faster and jump higher?"
I'm still buying overpriced running shoes (now with expensive inserts) but performance isn't the issue.
These days I'm trying to prevent hurting myself any more than I already have.
One knee surgery is quite enough thank you.
We all spend money on gear to enhance ourselves, just maybe not in video games
Cheers
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
the combat in BDO is completely client side. when you attack an enemy, the server won't necessarily connect your attack if there's a desync or lag. there (were/are) speed hacks that allow you to repeatedly cast skills without delay -- INCLUDING ultimate abilities. hackers were always doing top tier damage in world boss fights -- and the loot would go to the group with highest dps. this means that only hackers had the ability to get TOP TIER WORLD BOSS LOOT. hackers weren't even able to win versus hackers because there were too many people cheating.
you guys can complain about cash shops and premium subscriptions all you want, but the reality of the game is that you will never win fairly -- even if you invest whale money.
http://twitch.tv/woetothevanquished
If you want to get the best gear in 1 week rather than let's say, few months (as it should be), this kind of things are bound to happen.
Again this is about people playing casually who want to catch up fast with the rest of the players, that's the kind of people the CS is aimed at.
The CS is not aimed at regular players who play the game with dedication and are there for the long run, players that knows that getting the best gear will take months, not weeks.
Kakao needs to survive after all, they needs this kind of people who buy stuff from their CS, because if they were all like me who knows how to play the game and plan for the long run, Kakao would close doors within a month.
You know how many times I got stuck on a particular gear level, you have no idea how many Billions I spent to upgrade my gear and how many times I failed.
It is frustrating and it is tempting to just buy Artisan Memories to save you another few weeks of grinding, but eventually I like to play the game and I like BDO grind, and slowly but steadily I got myself a badass Gear Set, it took me 8 months instead of 2 months, but it has been worth it.
Those 8 months has been fun because I enjoyed the game, it never felt like a grind, but if people want to pay their way up and get their best gear in 2 months time instead of my 8 months, be my guest.
But in all honesty, they are doing it wrong, that's not how you play a MMORPG....that's what I call instant gratification at its worst (because they are actually paying to get that instant gratification)....and that's what's wrong with modern MMORPGs and Players in my opinion.
I am sure there are people who spent more than $2000 in BDO CS.
As I explained above, Casual people with no patience and plenty of money do that to catch up fast.
If you play the game properly that's completely avoidable.
I really don't know why you are so obsessed with BDO Cash Shop while you seem to never criticize AA CS which is possibly the worst CS ever created.
Yet even though I am not a big fan, you don't see me flooding the AA boards with my complaints about their CS.
BDO is more successful than AA, get over it, it is probably one of the few MMORPGs where the numbers of players goes up rather than down, and that's is mainly due to his CS which is totally optional, which allows them to retain most of the Free Players which usually jump from game to game once they hit the CS wall, in BDO there is not such a wall, and Free Players stick with the game.
Bottom line is:
If AA had BDO CS or Rift CS, I would probably still be playing the game, as AA PvE is far superior than BDO, and I usually play MMORPGs for their PvE.
Trion went completely retarded when they implemented AA CS, particularly because Rift CS was one of the best around.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
It is certainly brilliant, in the same way the guys at Enron that got away with it are brilliant.
It's clear to me they spent a lot of time on the monetization model, taking lessons from the booming mobile market, and factored it into every aspect of the game.
Personally, I'd rather Devs spend the majority of their time devising a game that's fun. And I think there's plenty of evidence that players will pay as much or more for "fun" as they will to avoid not enjoying a game.
BDO is certainly not alone in having an anti-player monetization model, but it bugs me more than others because much of the game is actually pretty amazing. The graphics, the subsystems, the combat, the music- they're all really well done, and that's really hard to pull off.
The game has problems (mostly with servers/pop-in), but this is the first time I've seen that a game spent a lot of time on quality while going for the phone-game model of "Pay to Enjoy". Normally the general quality of "pay to enjoy" games is very low, so it's frustrating looking at what this game could have been.