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One Tamriel works better than the GW2 scaling system
TheScavenger
Member EpicPosts: 3,321
I don't tend to compare games, but in this case its fitting as it focuses on a single feature (scaling) which both MMOs use.
In One Tamriel, everywhere is a challenge. I level up, the same areas still offer a challenge. I get better items yeah, but its still a challenge to do quests or kill or explore. And this part is just what I heard from my guild leader, but even at max level...with at least semi-decent items...he said there are many areas of the game that still offer him a challenge. Reading that I was very excited, because unlike most MMOs...zones become useless to do, entire areas have no point in going to them. Sure you CAN, if you like 1 hitting everything and taking 0-1 damage...me though...I'm a Dark Souls guy...I want a challenge throughout the whole game. Most MMOs provide that to a point, but every MMO I played...they scale you DOWN, but entire areas become so easy to do there is no challenge and it gets boring FAST.
Which is where GW2 come in. They do NOT scale rewards to your level, nor exp or anything...they scale you down...there is literally no point in staying in the starter area, because the rewards are junk (exp/gold etc) and more importantly, the areas become so easy its dumb. Sure some of the event stuff can offer a challenge, but even then it is just too easy to stay in those areas.
On top of that, I can't go anywhere I want in GW2. The leveling in that game (for me) is super boring. But I don't really like leveling to begin with. I love raising skills, I level grinding in areas...leveling itself not so much. Like Ultima Online I have a ton of fun leveling up skills. I guess I'm a skill-up kinda guy when it comes to MMOs. But GW2, I have to spend so much time just to get to the (to me) more fun areas of the game, but they all take so much time to level up to. The higher levels ARE more fun in terms of zone design/events...especially the HoT areas...just the low levels so mundanely boring (to me they are) that I can't be bothered to level up alts and forced to stick with one single character that I ended up not really liking. Though part of my dislike is because I liked GW1 classes and builds vastly more (so many builds and stuff you could do in GW1), but heh that is a whole nother topic lol.
Now One tamriel. I can literally go anywhere I want. On top of that, nowhere becomes redundant...everywhere will always offer a challenge. It doesn't have skills to level up (no raising one armed to 1 to 100 or whatever), but when you can literally do anything and go anywhere, it doesn't really matter at that point because I can go anywhere at any time I choose even at level 1.
Some may argue there is no progression. But there still kinda is in ESO. Gotta raise champion points, still gotta get gold/items/raise skills while leveling. Even FPS games to an extent offer progression. I guess those saying "no progression" really mean they want areas to become wasted space and a waste of designer and developers time, and made useless as you level so you literally have no reason to ever go back to them. Which is pretty bad design, and makes the entire area a complete waste of time and money it spent to design it.
And sure, GW2 I can go in and get downleveled...sadly however...better items=easier content. I guess I can purposely gimp myself, but why would I want to do that? GW2 is all about how you look, and higher end items look WAY better than the stupid looking low level stuff...otherwise there was literally no point getting those items and getting dye for them lol. I think I'd be okay if they scaled down the items as well, but for some reason they didn't.
In ESO from what my guild leader said, mobs (like they do in WoW legion areas) scale up with you. This is much better, because it makes the whole game useful. There is no wasted zones, no wasted content that most people might spend 5 minutes doing and never go back again...in terms of actual design and mechanics...this is a far bigger evolution in terms of scaling than what many MMOs use.
Imagine in WoW if you could go to any zone, any place in the game...and it was actually useful to go to them no matter what level you were. Every dungeon, every raid still current. That be a TON of content. The entire game would open up so much. Instead they force you to be in Broken Shore (as of this post) cause there is no point going to anywhere else, unless you feel like you want to kick babies all day and steal their candy (in terms of how mundanely easy the content is outside current expansions).
Sadly, most MMOs do it the WoW way...luckily ESO did something actually innovative with One Tamriel and showed NONE of the game should be useless and mundane content, and ALL content is current. That is the way future themepark MMOs should be.
In One Tamriel, everywhere is a challenge. I level up, the same areas still offer a challenge. I get better items yeah, but its still a challenge to do quests or kill or explore. And this part is just what I heard from my guild leader, but even at max level...with at least semi-decent items...he said there are many areas of the game that still offer him a challenge. Reading that I was very excited, because unlike most MMOs...zones become useless to do, entire areas have no point in going to them. Sure you CAN, if you like 1 hitting everything and taking 0-1 damage...me though...I'm a Dark Souls guy...I want a challenge throughout the whole game. Most MMOs provide that to a point, but every MMO I played...they scale you DOWN, but entire areas become so easy to do there is no challenge and it gets boring FAST.
Which is where GW2 come in. They do NOT scale rewards to your level, nor exp or anything...they scale you down...there is literally no point in staying in the starter area, because the rewards are junk (exp/gold etc) and more importantly, the areas become so easy its dumb. Sure some of the event stuff can offer a challenge, but even then it is just too easy to stay in those areas.
On top of that, I can't go anywhere I want in GW2. The leveling in that game (for me) is super boring. But I don't really like leveling to begin with. I love raising skills, I level grinding in areas...leveling itself not so much. Like Ultima Online I have a ton of fun leveling up skills. I guess I'm a skill-up kinda guy when it comes to MMOs. But GW2, I have to spend so much time just to get to the (to me) more fun areas of the game, but they all take so much time to level up to. The higher levels ARE more fun in terms of zone design/events...especially the HoT areas...just the low levels so mundanely boring (to me they are) that I can't be bothered to level up alts and forced to stick with one single character that I ended up not really liking. Though part of my dislike is because I liked GW1 classes and builds vastly more (so many builds and stuff you could do in GW1), but heh that is a whole nother topic lol.
Now One tamriel. I can literally go anywhere I want. On top of that, nowhere becomes redundant...everywhere will always offer a challenge. It doesn't have skills to level up (no raising one armed to 1 to 100 or whatever), but when you can literally do anything and go anywhere, it doesn't really matter at that point because I can go anywhere at any time I choose even at level 1.
Some may argue there is no progression. But there still kinda is in ESO. Gotta raise champion points, still gotta get gold/items/raise skills while leveling. Even FPS games to an extent offer progression. I guess those saying "no progression" really mean they want areas to become wasted space and a waste of designer and developers time, and made useless as you level so you literally have no reason to ever go back to them. Which is pretty bad design, and makes the entire area a complete waste of time and money it spent to design it.
And sure, GW2 I can go in and get downleveled...sadly however...better items=easier content. I guess I can purposely gimp myself, but why would I want to do that? GW2 is all about how you look, and higher end items look WAY better than the stupid looking low level stuff...otherwise there was literally no point getting those items and getting dye for them lol. I think I'd be okay if they scaled down the items as well, but for some reason they didn't.
In ESO from what my guild leader said, mobs (like they do in WoW legion areas) scale up with you. This is much better, because it makes the whole game useful. There is no wasted zones, no wasted content that most people might spend 5 minutes doing and never go back again...in terms of actual design and mechanics...this is a far bigger evolution in terms of scaling than what many MMOs use.
Imagine in WoW if you could go to any zone, any place in the game...and it was actually useful to go to them no matter what level you were. Every dungeon, every raid still current. That be a TON of content. The entire game would open up so much. Instead they force you to be in Broken Shore (as of this post) cause there is no point going to anywhere else, unless you feel like you want to kick babies all day and steal their candy (in terms of how mundanely easy the content is outside current expansions).
Sadly, most MMOs do it the WoW way...luckily ESO did something actually innovative with One Tamriel and showed NONE of the game should be useless and mundane content, and ALL content is current. That is the way future themepark MMOs should be.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
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Comments
But my understanding is even at "end game", at least most of the "zones" still offer a nice challenge for people, which seems to imply mobs scales with items like WoW legion mobs do.
I just started the game so still a lot to learn, and after bad first impressions, I'm actually greatly enjoying my time. It is so fun to go anywhere I please, and (at least so far), its always a challenge and never too easy. Especially helped I got into an awesome guild.
But the game kinda feels more like a sandbox in a way, than a normal themepark. It kinda reminds me of EVE where I could go anywhere I wanted, same with Starwars Galaxies. The world is so open, and I can go all over like I can sandbox MMOs. Pretty awesome feeling.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
The sense of progression is accomplished through unlocking better skills in each skill line that is (and has always been in ESO) separate from character levels and getting a hold of better gear that you can eventually improve to provide better damage or more protection once you have the sets you want to use at end game.
Once you get up to the CP 630 level with good gear and all the good skills unlocked it does inevitably get a lot easier though. But even then although you may need to go out of your way a bit more to find harder content, there is some there... even for the solo player with its unique solo raid in Maelstrom arena that many people struggle with at any level.
About the only thing I would change is that I would take levels away from the gear since it's a bit of pain to re-grind for your favorites at different levels or do what most of us do, which is ignore it and use whatever until CP160 which is the top end for gear. I prefer the idea of collecting what may eventually be your end-game gear right from the start even if they add some extra "level improvement" crafting step to it.
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Still, it's a great game and they've made it a lot better over the years.
ESO scaling is much better.
I think the point of GW2 scaling was to be able to revisit lower zones in order to complete all the achievement without getting bored by the trivia content.
With ESO is more like they want you to being able to explore the world without being on rails.
Prior to this ESO was about as rigid and level centric as they come. I literally cleared zones in a pattern as if you weren't careful it was easy to outlevel content in the current zone you were in if you tackled the higher level content too early and out of order.
I've often thought it would be interesting to play a MMO with this style of progression to see if I would enjoy it.
Will have to be in another game however as ESO has several designs I don't care for (the leveling before didn't bother me) which will never be changed.
Well, along with fact I didn't care for how Zenimax handled a refund request I made at a time when they were selectively giving refunds to some but not others. (based on some sort of cryptic, internal rules or process)
Told their customer service at the time I would never play a Zenimax game ever again and asked them to remove me from all future emails and communications.
They got that part right at least.
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