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Sniping

DerakDerak Member Posts: 10
in Fallen Earth


I am a sniper. always have been always will be. therefore this topic is very important to me. in this game snipers should. do ALOT of damage from long range  be frail to balance this out and have lots of "sneaky" factors as this is a good part of sniping. find a hill/abandon building/water tower creep up to it and take up a position. now as for the actual gameplay. just set it up like the sniping was in day of defeat(half life 1 mod).this had you sway a little(as you would irl) while you were scoped in. if you hit someone with a sniper rifle they should take heavy dmg/die. these guns are always really slow rof and hitting a running target from a distance takes ALOT of skill. you should not have to hit someone(of about the same lv/skill) 5 times for them to die it should be one shot one kill as much as possible. sniping is the hardest thing you can do. now view distance is also very very important as if you cant see very far you are just a slow firing fragile target. in another game i play(which shall remain nameless) due to their crazy cpu eating code you cannot see as far as you can shoot. this drives me crazy. i spend most of the day panning around past the draw distance hoping i happen to target something in the fog/darkness. this is not acceptible. now i realise there will be weather affects that limit your vision but on a clear day for the love of god let us see what we are shooting at.  let us splice the eyes of an eagle into our dna and the sonar of a bat so that we can see and hear them thus letting us "see" them from far off one way or another. i would also like to be able to climb trees/windmills and whatnot(would be fun to get a tree blown out from under me).also adjust the swing of the scope and accuracy of the shot based on 3 stances. standing crouching and laying. standing should be pretty hard to get a good shot crouched shouldnt be affected to bad and laying down should give you a perfect shot.



Comments

  • darkasterdarkaster Member Posts: 187
    All those things sound great, and sound like a ton of fun, especially the splicing of the dna and the climbing old windmills, but the problem with snipers is always going to be power balance issues.  If there is much to lose when you die in this game, getting hit from something you can't see and just falling over dead would cause such an uproar in the community I'd think...  However if it hit a guy for lets say 60-70% of their total life, and they had a chance to run for cover I'd say its fair.  That way the person getting shot has to be on their toes, aware of the direction the bullet came from, and whats the next move to take seeing as you only have 5ish seconds to make it before the next bullet comes blazing...
    1000000
  • RabiatorRabiator Member Posts: 358



    As Darkaster said, the devs have to be careful not to ruin the game balance. Which might be a problem on the huge maps most MMORPGs have.

    I have played my share of Day Of Defeat too and found snipers well balanced there, but distances are much shorter and there is usually a way into the rear of the sniper position. Where you don't have that (say on map Charlie before the defenses are breached), snipers are a must have and almost ruin it for the other classes. Now imagine you have to cross the plains for hundreds of meters without any cover...

    So if you are planning to introduce snipers to FE, there must be a countermeasure to keep them from getting overpowered. Maybe a stealthing skill or class that can get close before being detected, with limitations in other ways. Then you could have something like
    -Stealther pwns sniper (most of the time, lets keep some playerskill in the system!)
    -Sniper pwns Warrior/Tank at a distance
    -Warrior/Tank pwns Stealther in close combat
    See how every class has its strengths but weaknesses elsewhere?

    Day Of Defeat got that right in other ways that may not work for a MMORPG. But I would still recommend it as an example of how you can balance a shooter well.





  • sinothsinoth Member Posts: 175
    I've shot rifles with high powered scopes and you're right Derak, it is hard.  Breathing, muscle control, wind, distance, elevation, leading... it takes a lot of control and practice.  But shooting a sniper rifle in an online game is NOT difficult.  The only thing you have to worry about is leading, which is very easy to get used to after a few days playing the game.  Because of this, I am very against having a 'one shot, one kill' sniper class.  Maybe when a sniper gets skilled enough, he can kill in two or three shots, but never one... the balance for that is terrible.

    As long as the rifles have a slow rate of fire, killing in 2-3 shots would be ok.  That way, you'd have at least 10 seconds or so to get to cover.  If you are going to travel in open desert then do it with stealth, because you have to assume snipers will be looking for easy targets.

    http://www.fallenearth.se - Your source for Fallen Earth information

  • CthulhuvongCthulhuvong Member UncommonPosts: 433
    I would say to start the balancing of a sniper play-type, there should be a few things. First, split sniper rifles into 2 classes: semi-auto and bolt action. The semi-auto do a little less damage per shots (4-7 hits per kill) and are less acurate in semi-auto, while the the bolt action are more acurate and do more damage (2-5 hits per kill) but take a few seconds to reload and aim. And by semi-auto being inacurate, I mean after 1 or 2 shots, you are basically doing a semi-auto spray and pray. Also, area-specific damage would be great, so that hits to your shin, while not doing as much damage as one to the chest would still slow you down or stop you completely and make you go prone.

    The next thing you need is the ability to steady yourself. A starter can only do it for 1 second, while a master may be able to do it for up to 5 or 10 seconds. This would be a hotkey, and when you hit it you steady yourself and your aim barely moves. While you do this you cannot move and can only shift your aim slightly. Without the steady, you aim is constanly bobbing around because of what sinoth mentioned: "Breathing, muscle control, wind, distance." The need to lead your targets would also be awesome, but hard to do on a game with fluctuating pings.

    The last thing you need is directional sound, so that when a sniper fires, you know where he is. This way, if you're hit you know which direction to cover, and which direction to attack if you think you can get to him in time. This makes the sniper need to act like a real sniper and have to switch positions in order to stay alive.


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  • ordeithordeith Member Posts: 36
    Nice ideas, but that is way too much to implement and it probably won't happen in this game. But you never know..
  • NecranNecran Member Posts: 309

    I think the best solution to the unfairness of sniping would be to make sniper bullets very expensive or rare, it's post apocalyptic after all, wouldnt be factories churning out millions of bullets.
    that way you wont get some guy with hundreds of bullets just firing away at anything that moves for hours and killing people far less powerful for cheap thrills with no gain other than the satisfaction he just annoyed someone.
    Would force snipers to save their ammo for something that matters, and make the one shot one kill idea more necessary than it is cool sounding, could still use a pistol or knife for general mayhem.
    also from the looks of it armor is going to be a factor too in this game, so it could be possible that certain gear would protect you from getting hit in critical area's, just like what real life snipers have to deal with.




  • DerakDerak Member Posts: 10

    what i'm thinking of is a cross of dod with neocron. dod has the action right nc has the mmo parts working pretty well(of the sniper class cant say as much for other parts of it ). tanks slaughter you once they get in range(as does everyone else for that matter) ect. also i'd like to see most of the world with some decents spots for cover/ambush like little sections with bombed out cars and a few buildings or such. and to whoever said it(been at work for 16 hours dont care to scroll right now) its all wonderfull 1337 sauce that you've gotten a chance to fire "real guns" but as this is a gaming forum about games most of my statements will be based on that world..it's harder to be a sniper than to run around with a shotgun or in some cases missle launchers/splash weapons. shotties have a wide bullet spray its hard not to hit people and splash dmg well...its kind of hard to miss. its alot harder to hit a moving target(oh and btw i didnt have need of sniper post in dod i went on the ground with the other troops killing people as they dared to peek out when i wasnt killing every other sniper on the other team) while standing with the riffle sway affect and nades landing nearby messing up your aim not to mention having to out think the entire enemy team. if you play games where snipers are allowed a little freedom to be sneaky/think it takes on a whole new level that no other classes can touch. a dumb sniper is a dead sniper(in some games, not nearly enough of them). also snipers are supposed to bring nifty death to people that are unfortunate enough to be in his scope if he's taken the time to find a good position..if i go through the trouble of finding a really really good spot thats hard to trace and locate i should have a little more "power" than other classes that just run around like blind mice in open fields. its not my fault if they dont think to find cover/stealth or whatever it is the other classes will end up doing. and yes there should be a "rogue" like class that will shovel..er kill a sniper with a quickness keeps us on our toes. i dont want snipers to rule the earth i just want them to work like they are suposed to...oh and how can you not flank a sniper in an mmo? in dod there were only so many ways people could get to you(a door to get in your room with maybe 2 ways into the base floor) in mmos(unless someones on drugs somewhere) there are fields with tall grass some blown out buildings ect but that tall grass on top of a hill has no doors and buildings after the end of the world tend to have a few spare holes in them. its not going to be 1 shot 1 kill as equipment will play a very large roll in any mmo. if i shoot at a tank in heavy armor wielding a chain gun i dont expect him to instantly fall over dead but at the same time if i spot someone/thing with light armor they should take a pounding. and go down pretty quick. sorry for the spelling it took me 10 mins to remember the name of the game i play everyday :/ time for some sleep i think
    (oh and "real snipers" have guns that can punch through some tank armor last time i checked..maybe stuff with the same affects as bullet proof vest/armor but if you get shot in the chest with a modern sniper round that little vest isnt going to do much for you..would be an interesting idea to have differant armor types to fend of various types of bullet dmg though.. was watching this show onces where they were displaying all the various types of vest and weapons. if i remember right kevlar will stop a shotgun/handgun but hunting rifles and such went right through them. corse most games have blunt/piercing/elemental resistances and such which is kind of the same thing. makes me think of the middle ages a little bit with chain male vs plate. mobility with a decent slashing protection or slow and bulky but nearly imune to most weapons...erm sleep i ramble)
  • sinothsinoth Member Posts: 175

    par·a·graph :

    n.
    1. A
      distinct division of written or printed matter that begins on a new,
      usually indented line, consists of one or more sentences, and typically
      deals with a single thought or topic or
      quotes one speaker's continuous words.
    2. A mark ( ¶ ) used to indicate where a new paragraph should begin or to serve as a reference mark.
    3. A brief article, notice, or announcement, as in a newspaper.

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  • EszekialEszekial Member Posts: 10
    Today's modern body armor technology can handle 1  7.62 round before becoming undependable. Can handle multiple 9mm and other such smaller rounds.

    a 50cal bullet... No matter how much armor you have on, it's going to blow a large chunk of your body onto the ground.


    Praying for a Fallen Earth

  • DerakDerak Member Posts: 10
    *clap clap clap* you found a dictionary. It is the internet grammar police need not apply?

  • sinothsinoth Member Posts: 175
    I meant no offense (well maybe a little ), but no one is going to read your posts if you block them into one huge paragraph.  Its very, very hard to read.  Correct grammar doesn't matter so much, but at least split it up please... you have good ideas that are lost in the mess.

    http://www.fallenearth.se - Your source for Fallen Earth information

  • DerakDerak Member Posts: 10

    *bows* sorry played to much wow used to 12 year olds bantering  i've written out 3 or 4 game concepts(for entire games) and usually what i post on the forums would be my first draft just getting the ideas together on paper. i have very little time nowdays so my forum post usually get a spelling once over and posted. i'll try to make them more coherant and legible ;)

    [and sorry for being an ass ;)]



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