Star Citizen Dev Update, KIOSKs and economy talk

Comments

• Odeezee Member UncommonPosts: 69

  July 2017

  i remember people were arguing that they will not do variable gravity with effects on animations because "reasons", well they are already going that route as we speak according to what was shown off in this latest AtV. wonder if it will be in for 3.0.

  

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• MaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,846

  July 2017 edited July 2017

  Odeezee said:

  i remember people were arguing that they will not do variable gravity with effects on animations because "reasons", well they are already going that route as we speak according to what was shown off in this latest AtV. wonder if it will be in for 3.0.

  Yeah had wondered that as well, now they show the creation of new animations for handling multiple gravity settings.
  
  

  
  
  But there are real reasons there, when they have thousands of animations, entering every ship, exit every ship, jumps, run, etc... It's one painful annoying process to not only get the same animations for low-gravity but also to adapt them to different gravity levels.
  
  I guess they will tweak the speed of most animations to make the gravity believable and only add new animations for the obvious ones like jumping and so.
  

  
• Vikingir Member UncommonPosts: 162

  July 2017

  MaxBacon said:
  
  

  I guess they will tweak the speed of most animations to make the gravity believable [...]
  

  Yeah, the speed and length of steps needs tuning when running in low gravity.

  Best regards,
  Viking
• MaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,846

  July 2017

  Vikingir said:

  Yeah, the speed and length of steps needs tuning when running in low gravity.

  I know wouldn't want to be one animator in a game like this, so many realistic animations to maintain by default under normal gravity, then 0g environments come in, then environments with different gravity levels come in.
  
  Then a designer comes in and asks "So... what about underwater? I want to go underwater to pick up and carry a box!", and suddenly your soul is dead inside.

  
• Vikingir Member UncommonPosts: 162

  July 2017

  @MaxBacon - They don't have to do everything now though, before the MVP release. For instance, underwater wasn't in the stretch goals so they don't have to implement movement underwater yet.
  
  There's a sea world, Kampos (Ellis IV) , which is on the schedule, where the Flatcats live and the gravity is more than 1G, so that'll require more slow and staggering animations. Stamina will be affected too.
  
  BTW, Ellis is a 12-planet system with lots of different worlds, plus it hosts racing contests. One of the most exciting systems in the starmap, I think.

  

  Best regards,
  Viking
• MaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,846

  July 2017

  Vikingir said:

  @MaxBacon - They don't have to do everything now though, before the MVP release. For instance, underwater wasn't in the stretch goals so they don't have to implement movement underwater yet.
  
  There's a sea world, Kampos (Ellis IV) , which is on the schedule, where the Flatcats live and the gravity is more than 1G, so that'll require more slow and staggering animations. Stamina will be affected too.
  
  BTW, Ellis is a 12-planet system with lots of different worlds, plus it hosts racing contests. One of the most exciting systems in the starmap, I think.

  Yeah but if they add water to planets it forcefully brings all those factors to the table, what if players go underwater, what if ships go underwater, etc... etc...
  
  But maybe there's no water in Stanton, Microtech is a frozen wasteland, Arccorp I wouldn't believe it's free roam, Crusader is the gas giant and Hurston is a savaged planet.
  
  But perhaps Hurston has water, seeing what they're creating for its biome:
  
  
• Vikingir Member UncommonPosts: 162

  July 2017 edited July 2017

  MaxBacon said:

  Vikingir said:

  @MaxBacon - They don't have to do everything now though, before the MVP release. For instance, underwater wasn't in the stretch goals so they don't have to implement movement underwater yet.
  

  Yeah but if they add water to planets it forcefully brings all those factors to the table, what if players go underwater, what if ships go underwater, etc... etc...
  

  Well, drowning is on the schedule at the end of this year. Haha. So I guess something about water is planned to be implemented before MVP, but in case they get little time they just have to show a sequence where you or your ship/vehicle is sinking and you die by drowning. In that case your ship will be lost, just as if you got shot and the ship exploded.
  
  IMO this would be a minimum implementation of water gameplay. But, knowing CR, I don't think he'll be satisfied with that. Full underwater gameplay will probably come, it's just a matter of time.
  
  

  MaxBacon said:
  
  

  But perhaps Hurston has water, seeing what they're creating for its biome:
  
  

  Cacti needs water too, yes. But it's a miracle Hurston has any flora at all, judging by how polluted it looks in other images. Those cacti must be very resilient.
  
  
  
  
  
  

  

  Best regards,
  Viking
• MaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,846

  July 2017

  Vikingir said:

  Cacti needs water too, yes. But it's a miracle Hurston has any flora at all, judging by how polluted it looks in other images. Those cacti must be very resilient.
  
  

  Yeah the thing that makes me wonder is that they are working on this stuff for Hurston and Lorville is that the planet might be free roam like Delamar and Levski.
  
  It's something they are yet to confirm, seeing this view of that landing zone: http://i.imgur.com/BzUWzK8.jpg  I guess it can just be to give detail to the surrounding terrain. 
• Odeezee Member UncommonPosts: 69

  July 2017

  i have been thinking about how CIG will handle rivers and things like that on a procedural scale, so they can have actual running water with physics. and after watching the fluid physics they were working on for things like glasses of alcohol being affected by the gravity on the planetary body, i wondered if they could extend that to the whole planet. the thought that came to mind was that the seed they would use to generate the planet would have an ocean of water beneath the surface, then for rivers they would just make cracks in the surface of the landmass at high altitudes and let the physics and gravity of the planet take over the rest.

  

  "Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!"
  For a $5/5000 in-game credit bonus for backing Star Citizen (MMO) or Squadron 42 (Single Player/Co-op) use my Referral code: STAR-3QDY-SZBG
• MadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505

  July 2017

  MaxBacon said:

  Vikingir said:

  @MaxBacon - They don't have to do everything now though, before the MVP release. For instance, underwater wasn't in the stretch goals so they don't have to implement movement underwater yet.
  
  There's a sea world, Kampos (Ellis IV) , which is on the schedule, where the Flatcats live and the gravity is more than 1G, so that'll require more slow and staggering animations. Stamina will be affected too.
  
  BTW, Ellis is a 12-planet system with lots of different worlds, plus it hosts racing contests. One of the most exciting systems in the starmap, I think.

  Yeah but if they add water to planets it forcefully brings all those factors to the table, what if players go underwater, what if ships go underwater, etc... etc...
  
  But maybe there's no water in Stanton, Microtech is a frozen wasteland, Arccorp I wouldn't believe it's free roam, Crusader is the gas giant and Hurston is a savaged planet.
  
  But perhaps Hurston has water, seeing what they're creating for its biome:
  
  

  I like the biomes look they're going for in that screenshot; it's foreign for sure but not so much it feels bizarre.  I certainly hope that there WILL be bizarro looking worlds (for the sheer possibility of extreme lifeforms/resources it may hold), but my human brain finds it oddly comforting to retain SOME sort recognizable semblance of normal fauna on many of the inhabitable planets.
  
  Almost like uncanny valley, but reversed.

  
• Vikingir Member UncommonPosts: 162

  July 2017 edited July 2017

  MaxBacon said:
  
  

  Yeah the thing that makes me wonder is that they are working on this stuff for Hurston and Lorville is that the planet might be free roam like Delamar and Levski.
  

  It's a little fuzzy yet to me how they're going to do that with planets but I think they'll be free to roam, just like the moons. If I were to speculate, which I usually don't want to do, this is my guess:
  
  Some planets, like ArcCorp, will restrict landing to only the designated landing sites. If you deviate from your flight path your ship's steering will be taken over by ground control. Maybe you get shot out of the sky from big land based turrets if you try to land elsewhere. While on other planets you may land anywhere, but only get service on the pre-designated landing sites of course. I guess it'll depend on how much they police/protect the wilderness outside landing sites. For instance, on one of the Xi'An planets (I forgot which one) it was said that you shouldn't try to land outside the city. A clear warning something bad will happen to you if you try.
  
  It'll be interesting to see how they do this for different planets. Perhaps we'll get to know at GamesCom?
  
  

  Odeezee said:

  i have been thinking about how CIG will handle rivers and things like that on a procedural scale, so they can have actual running water with physics.

  Yeah, me too. I don't think it's a technical difficult thing to implement though, once they have the looks of flowing water right. If you go out to look at a river or stream in RL it's surpricingly repetitive in its movements. It flows in the same paths, around the same rocks, all the time. The only difference is high and low water levels in the same river. So I don't know if they must think about gravity and other physics to implement flowing water, it seems to me they'll get far with just a few variations of flow movements. But we'll see.
  
  If they go full realism, with planetary scale weather and unique ecosystems, then I guess they can simulate different levels of water in rivers, streams, waterfalls, lakes, etc. based on how much rain and melted snow there are in a certain geographic area. But IMO it'll be realistic enough without such full realism too.

  Best regards,
  Viking
• rpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502

  July 2017

  Really glad to see gravity effects. It was one of my main gripes that people ran everywhere as though they were doing the 100m sprint regardless of conditions, so cool.
  
• Erillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328

  July 2017

  rpmcmurphy said:

  Really glad to see gravity effects. It was one of my main gripes that people ran everywhere as though they were doing the 100m sprint regardless of conditions, so cool.
  

  Funny anecdote from Buzz Aldrin.
  
  They first thing he thought when he put his boot on the moon was NOT the "Small step for a man....." like Neil .... he thought that he won a bet amongst the guys at the astronaut training center about the best movement method to move in low gravity. And that they did not all vanish in bottomless pits filled with powdery fine moondust. He is an engineer and pilot through and through - today as in the past.
  
  
  Have fun
  
• MaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,846

  July 2017

  MadFrenchie said:

  I like the biomes look they're going for in that screenshot; it's foreign for sure but not so much it feels bizarre.  I certainly hope that there WILL be bizarro looking worlds (for the sheer possibility of extreme lifeforms/resources it may hold), but my human brain finds it oddly comforting to retain SOME sort recognizable semblance of normal fauna on many of the inhabitable planets.
  
  Almost like uncanny valley, but reversed.

  I think they might aim to create a resemblance to reality in this sort of more basic biomes, the deserts, forests, etc...
  
  But when it comes to making stuff look bizarro/alien, I wasn't expecting much until I saw the fauna WIP:
  
  
  Makes you wonder what type of environment biome would something like that be added in. keko

  
• Erillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328

  July 2017

  Death World Biome. Catachan Devils FTW!
  
  
  Have fun

  
• spankybus Member UncommonPosts: 1,367

  July 2017

  It is difficult to mo-cap low-gravity locomotion while on earth, for a host of reasons.
  
  One reason has to do with stopping distance.
  
  Example:
  
  When you you walk on earth, Friction is your friend. It allows you to start, stop, and change direction...without it, you'd just spin your wheels like Scooby Doo. Well Friction is a function of gravity. The EArth pulls you toward the surface, creating resistance between the soles of your feet and the ground.
  
  the Greater the gravity, the greater the pull, the higher the traction and the more grip you have.
  
  Well, MarS' gravity is about 1/3 that of Earths gravity. So, you'd weigh a 1/3 as much and therefore would have about 1/3 the traction your normally have. So, when running in Mars, it would need three times as long to come to a stop as it would on Earth...three times the stopping distance.
  
  if you tried to decelerate as hard on mars as you normally would on Earth, you'd probably overcome the surfaces Co-efficient of friction and go sliding....and then ReAlLY look like Scooby Doo..running in place.
  
  this is why they bunny hop on the moon. Most of their impact e to place was directed down on the surface. When you walk on Earth, most of your force is being excerted parallel to the surface. Walking depends more on Friction then does hopping.

  

  Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
  www.spankybus.com
  -3d Artist & Compositor
  -Writer
  -Professional Amature
• MaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,846

  July 2017 edited July 2017

  Erillion said:

  Death World Biome. Catachan Devils FTW!
  
  
  Have fun

  I'd think something like a swampish, foggy biome.
  
  One of those things floating around in the fog, and some scare sound effects it to give it more of an Alien Isolation vibe. I hope they are willing to mix a bit of horror in this type of stuff, it really has the potential for it.
• gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919

  July 2017 edited July 2017

  MaxBacon said:

  
  

  
  
  But when it comes to making stuff look bizarro/alien, I wasn't expecting much until I saw the fauna WIP:
  
  
  Makes you wonder what type of environment biome would something like that be added in. keko

  You might find Dr. Jack Cohen (FRSB DSc PhD etc. ) ideas interesting. 
  
  As well as his "day job" he gave a talk for many year on "xenobiology" which he developed and subsequently wrote up. "Evolving the Alien" published in the US as "What does a Martian Look Like". Inexpensive copies usually available.
  
  Multiple authors have acknowledged his assistance - wiki lists Anne McCaffrey, Harry Harrison, Larry Niven / Jerry Pournelle / Steven Barnes, James White, David Gerrold and Terry Pratchett. Others not listed as well.  
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Cohen_(scientist)
  
• Vikingir Member UncommonPosts: 162

  July 2017

  Imagine walking in a jungle and being attacked by a flock of those creatures ... <shudder>
  BTW, when will we get to buy a flame thrower?

  Best regards,
  Viking
• Odeezee Member UncommonPosts: 69

  July 2017

  Vikingir said:

  Imagine walking in a jungle and being attacked by a flock of those creatures ... <shudder>
  BTW, when will we get to buy a flame thrower?

  they are like the steroided out and sentient SC version of the "Halo Flood"

  "Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!"
  For a $5/5000 in-game credit bonus for backing Star Citizen (MMO) or Squadron 42 (Single Player/Co-op) use my Referral code: STAR-3QDY-SZBG
• MaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,846

  July 2017

  gervaise1 said:

  You might find Dr. Jack Cohen (FRSB DSc PhD etc. ) ideas interesting. 
  

  Yeah there's already a lot of stuff in this area, so for a game I believe the path where they can use the crafted nature of how they build planets to create immersive environments to also apply in the type of stuff designed for them, to not only make sense but also be logical, from the familiar realism to the bizarre. 
  
  There's lore around but we'll see as they flesh out the lore more on alien life found in planets what type of stuff to expect, put some science on it haha
• Erillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328

  July 2017

  The most dangerous Alien of them all:
  
  
  
  
  Have fun
  
  

  
• Vikingir Member UncommonPosts: 162

  July 2017

  Odeezee said:

  Vikingir said:

  Imagine walking in a jungle and being attacked by a flock of those creatures ... <shudder>
  BTW, when will we get to buy a flame thrower?

  they are like the steroided out and sentient SC version of the "Halo Flood"

  Halo Flood ...? Something in the game Halo? (never played it)

  Best regards,
  Viking