Griefers costing me rl money ?

Torin_Khaos · August 2017

So help me out here. If some griefer decides to separate my soul from my body i lost two hours of play time in a spirit penalty. If i get camped i can lose days ?

Torin_Khaos · August 2017

to be clear the more i get griefed the sooner i have to buy another spark of life, the sooner i have to buy another spark of life the more money i have to spend to play this game.. why does this not sound like a good idea

blorpykins · August 2017

yeah, that's the death mechanic in a nutshell; there's more to it though and it should come with inventive/safeties that keep players from camping or being camped repeatedly... anywho, check back in 2020 to see if this is still whats being planned.

StaalBurgher · August 2017

My understanding is that after being killed once you can't lose anymore spirit for 2.5 hours. So you cannot get camped.

The direct counter to griefing is if he did kill you 'many' times he would lose exponentially more play time when he gets killed/imprisoned. So while everyone will lose a little play time due to getting killed in general, a griefer will lose a lot more. This balances the practical reality that he is imposing on your playstyle.

You also have to take into account the OPC feature, which means a griefer can never log off. He can't enter a settlement and is vulnerable 24 hours a day. Unlike in other mmos where a griefer can log in/off when it is to his advantage.

Elsabolts · August 2017

Question, why would you pay real money to be ganked?

Panther2103 · August 2017

This honestly sounds awful. I don't want to have to pay real money to get a soul back when I get ganked. I don't mind perma death or full loot, but if they have a system in place to keep the soul for money, then that seems relatively obnoxious that is how it is monetized.

Joreel · August 2017

The Sparks are your subscription... You get approximately 12 months of life and each time you die you lost a day or two, but the griefer loses 2.5x that or more depending on if they are witnessed and/or caught in the act. Once they kill you, which will be harder than it sounds, a bounty is placed on them and they can now be hunted down and dealt with by the authorities without spirit loss for those hunting them.

flizzer · August 2017

Aren't these games great! We need more of them!

RofusEU · August 2017

Panther2103 said:

This honestly sounds awful. I don't want to have to pay real money to get a soul back when I get ganked. I don't mind perma death or full loot, but if they have a system in place to keep the soul for money, then that seems relatively obnoxious that is how it is monetized.

It's still dirt cheap compared to any subscription based game. $25 for up to a year and you only lose time if you are coup de graced meaning not just knocked unconscious but actually dealt a killing blow.

StaalBurgher · August 2017

Yeah, the cost of a spark to play is very low compared to lifespan. Too low in my opinion.

Superman0X · August 2017

This reminds me of when you had to put quarters in the video game each time you died....
'Why would people pay for that'...

StaalBurgher · August 2017

Superman0X said:

This reminds me of when you had to put quarters in the video game each time you died....
'Why would people pay for that'...

I think the reason why they went for this option instead of a monthly sub was so that if you did grief etc you had a real money penalty.

Octagon7711 · August 2017

So is anyone else thinking griever can just hide his pk character and play the game on his second account? Or since it's so cheap it's worth the cost of the penalty to ruins someone's day?

Falendor · August 2017

Octagon7711 said:

So is anyone else thinking griever can just hide his pk character and play the game on his second account? Or since it's so cheap it's worth the cost of the penalty to ruins someone's day?

Theirs a lot of interesting mechanics in CoE, viewed in isolation from each other most of them seem odd and/or bad, but together, in the big picture, make a lot of sense. I think what most are missing is that the family mechanic incentives people to work together, at least on a day to day bases.
If your alt is an antisocial greafer, he wont benefit from his family and society, and thus more likely to be captured and have his lifespan reduced for his crimes. Your going to have to buy sparks of life for your alt and your main, and your alt is going to burn through them quicker.
Now if instead of a wild man in the woods murdering people, you try to blend into society and gank people with poison or in other ways that it is difficult to ID you... Your playing a serial killer, other players will have to use the investigation system and deductive reasoning to find out what your doing. In effect, you are creating content for other players, not degrading the game the game by being a troll.
That one of the cool things about CoE. It creates alot of ways for normally negative player activity to be expressed in a way that enriches the game.

Slapshot1188 · August 2017

Falendor said:

That one of the cool things about CoE. It creates alot of ways for normally negative player activity to be expressed in a way that enriches the game.

So says every unreleased game with Open PvP. That's the beauty of not actually having people play your game. You can say anything you want and a certain segment of the community will believe you. I mean seriously... investigation system? Deductive reasoning? Hunting down a serial killer? Come on... these guys will be lucky if they release a half functioning game.

The proof will be in the pudding whatever year they end up launching...

Maybe you are right... but to date there is absolutely NOTHING this company has produced that suggests this will happen.

Tiamat64 · August 2017

I remember UO tried to have things like community policing the PKers and bounty hunts that would reduce the murderor's stats if a bounty hunter cut off his head and turned it in.

.....they all sounded nice in practice but we all know how THAT turned out (and if you didn't know, spoiler: It failed horribly to police the griefers at all)

Falendor · August 2017

Slapshot1188 said:

Falendor said:

That one of the cool things about CoE. It creates alot of ways for normally negative player activity to be expressed in a way that enriches the game.

So says every unreleased game with Open PvP. That's the beauty of not actually having people play your game. You can say anything you want and a certain segment of the community will believe you. I mean seriously... investigation system? Deductive reasoning? Hunting down a serial killer? Come on... these guys will be lucky if they release a half functioning game.

The proof will be in the pudding whatever year they end up launching...

Maybe you are right... but to date there is absolutely NOTHING this company has produced that suggests this will happen.

SBS says they are going to do it. (and the fanboy chorus agrees)
You say it cant be done or they don't have the resources.
I think of myself as an optimist and still only give it BlackJack odds.
I totally agree what we have is just talk and ideas.

But I like the ideas, and even if the project ends up vaporware, I like the talk along the way. I honestly have fun theory crafting games and watching people work on things they love.

Your opinion on CoE is well and repeatedly stated. Perhaps it would be more productive of you to give your analysis of the mechanics theorized by SBS and so we can discuss what we do know about CoE.
Now you might be tempted to get on your high horse and say something about trying to protect/inform people about throwing their money at scam devs, but their is already a storm of news articles every day about Early access/Kickstarter games being unreliable, a gamble, or scam. This is a discussion we are all having, and one i would like to have sometime, but in a separate dedicated venue. I would want to discuss this problem as a whole rather than singling out any one particular company/product.

StaalBurgher · August 2017

No one can deny they are trying a unique combination of mechanics. Whether someone believes those features will be in the game is neither here nor there because that is just speculation.

The key concept that will make a huge difference in how this game plays out is the OPC feature. Players cannot log off. The advantage for griefers has always been that their chosen playstyle is to fight, whereas their victims tend to have more of a mix. So it ends up being a case that when they are online they are always engaging their chosen playstyle whether they are attacking or defending. To counter the griefer the victim has to take time away from what he would rather be doing. Since the griefer will be an OPC and vulnerable 24 hours a day this creates a massive opportunity for others to hurt them badly at less of a cost to their own playstyle.

Slapshot1188 · August 2017

Falendor said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Falendor said:

That one of the cool things about CoE. It creates alot of ways for normally negative player activity to be expressed in a way that enriches the game.

So says every unreleased game with Open PvP. That's the beauty of not actually having people play your game. You can say anything you want and a certain segment of the community will believe you. I mean seriously... investigation system? Deductive reasoning? Hunting down a serial killer? Come on... these guys will be lucky if they release a half functioning game.

The proof will be in the pudding whatever year they end up launching...

Maybe you are right... but to date there is absolutely NOTHING this company has produced that suggests this will happen.

SBS says they are going to do it. (and the fanboy chorus agrees)
You say it cant be done or they don't have the resources.
I think of myself as an optimist and still only give it BlackJack odds.
I totally agree what we have is just talk and ideas.

But I like the ideas, and even if the project ends up vaporware, I like the talk along the way. I honestly have fun theory crafting games and watching people work on things they love.

Your opinion on CoE is well and repeatedly stated. Perhaps it would be more productive of you to give your analysis of the mechanics theorized by SBS and so we can discuss what we do know about CoE.
Now you might be tempted to get on your high horse and say something about trying to protect/inform people about throwing their money at scam devs, but their is already a storm of news articles every day about Early access/Kickstarter games being unreliable, a gamble, or scam. This is a discussion we are all having, and one i would like to have sometime, but in a separate dedicated venue. I would want to discuss this problem as a whole rather than singling out any one particular company/product.

I have given plenty of analysis on their theoretical mechanics and actually got them to change their originally ridiculous time scale to a somewhat less ridiculous one.

As I said above in answer to the OP. Every single open world PvP game claims that they have mechanics that will solve griefing. If you think this investigation system and deductive reasoning (if it even gets implemented) will dent griefing I think you're nuts.

The guy above uses the mechanic where your character never logs out as some kind of mechanism that will prevent griefing. Again, I see no evidence that this mechanic will even function. These guys seem incapable of creating any sort of sophisticated AI enabling your character to become a living NPC. No, I rather suspect that the boards will be filled with tears when players log back in and find their character has been killed while they were not playing.

Kyleran · August 2017

Here's the thing, griefers are paying customers, sometimes even whales hence few developers are willing to totally shut them out by making their play style impossible.

So it becomes a delicate balance to permit enough griefing to keep those who enjoy it while not driving off those who abhor it which few games pull off successfully.

Remains to be seen if the proposed mechanics will work or not, for example not being able to log off might be no big deal if griefers can park their character inside a personal or clan house or fortress when necessary.

EVE is one of the games which has gotten the balance more right than most, but even it favors the griefer more than it should IMO, but then again griefers are a large portion of their playerbase I suspect.

All a matter of perspective I suppose, I've often seen posts on EVE forums bemoaning how EVE is unbalanced too much in favor of the carebears who have too many opportunities to escape, which if they are paying attention and flying smart is probably true.

Crocodile tears.

grimmliberty · August 2017

I like EVE's system, and I suspect if you/your ship stayed in the verse it would work better..

Also, @Slapshot1188, no one I know is talking about "doing away with griefing", all I have seen is "consequences for griefing".... world o' difference

bcbully · August 2017

StaalBurgher said:

My understanding is that after being killed once you can't lose anymore spirit for 2.5 hours. So you cannot get camped.

The direct counter to griefing is if he did kill you 'many' times he would lose exponentially more play time when he gets killed/imprisoned. So while everyone will lose a little play time due to getting killed in general, a griefer will lose a lot more. This balances the practical reality that he is imposing on your playstyle.

You also have to take into account the OPC feature, which means a griefer can never log off. He can't enter a settlement and is vulnerable 24 hours a day. Unlike in other mmos where a griefer can log in/off when it is to his advantage.

That\s awesome. Sounds like risk reward to me.

grimmliberty · August 2017

Yeah, it's no worse than EVE and PLEX... actually it's slightly better because the griefer only get partial "credit" for it, you keep most of it. It's also been stated you will be able to earn sparks and or trade sparks... so I do think of it a lot like PLEX.

daarco · January 2018

Why would this be a problem, we usually pay 15 bucks a month to be greifed.
How would 25 buck for 12 mounths be a bad thing?

waynejr2 · January 2018

Torin_Khaos said:

So help me out here. If some griefer decides to separate my soul from my body i lost two hours of play time in a spirit penalty. If i get camped i can lose days ?

Why didn't you know this could happen before you got into the game?

OrangeBoy · January 2018

Where are the death mechanics? Where are any of the mechanics mentioned?

Is there a demo or showcase vid i'm missing? Or is there really nothing else to show than the jousting demo?

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Griefers costing me rl money ?

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Griefers costing me rl money ?

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"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV