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World of Warcraft - Would WoW eSports Be Better Served with PvE? - MMORPG.com

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
edited September 2017 in News & Features Discussion

imageWorld of Warcraft - Would WoW eSports Be Better Served with PvE? - MMORPG.com

World of Warcraft's competitive and casual PvP is in the doldrums right now for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the Legion stat templates. Recently, however, Blizzard introduced a new angle on WoW's eSports scene with the Mythic+ Invitational, a PvE based event. Is it possible that this is the future for WoW eSports?

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Comments

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,779
    So it would be like speedrunning for mythic+ dungeons? That seems like a weird thing to have in Esports, since the idea of Esports has always been players vs other players. I guess in general it still is players vs other players, but in a leaderboard style as opposed to reacting to how other people play. I just can't see it working really. I don't think it would be fun to watch because once a team has something down to a science, you wont see much variation of how everyone does it, and in turn watching a bunch of people do the same thing over and over would be very boring.
    Beezerbeez
  • Geddon95405Geddon95405 Member UncommonPosts: 111
    so boring

    their team is really headed towards creative bankruptcy when they promote stuff like this
    BruceYee

    Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women...

  • TsiyaTsiya Member UncommonPosts: 280
    If there was a good bit of randomness to it, I think it would work. Premade characters, random bosses with random skills and enrage timers. 5 man teams, with set gear and classes, only customization is the spec. It would work a bit like a lobby game, team gets in and sees 5 classes, each person picks one, sets the weapon and in they go. If you get a class nobody on your team is familiar with, too bad, make it work. It would be a test of communication and flexibility, knowing the fight wouldn't help.
    SBFord

    image

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411
    Panther2103 said:
    So it would be like speedrunning for mythic+ dungeons? That seems like a weird thing to have in Esports, since the idea of Esports has always been players vs other players. I guess in general it still is players vs other players, but in a leaderboard style as opposed to reacting to how other people play. I just can't see it working really. I don't think it would be fun to watch because once a team has something down to a science, you wont see much variation of how everyone does it, and in turn watching a bunch of people do the same thing over and over would be very boring.

    you have just described track and field.
    CrazKanukCazriel
  • borghive49borghive49 Member RarePosts: 493
    Why oh why must Blizzard try to force this e-sport crap into a 15 year old fantasy MMO? They are trying so hard to capitalize on the big audience WoW has, except people that play fantasy MMOs most likely don't give a crap about e-sports. 
    pantaroGobstopper3DNickhead420Cazriel
  • KabulozoKabulozo Member RarePosts: 932
    edited September 2017
    PVP in WoW is crappy. Rather play a MOBA. PVE race for esport won't attact anybody.
    borghive49pantaro
  • winghaven1winghaven1 Member RarePosts: 745
    edited September 2017
    It's not exciting watching players play chess vs bots. This is the same thing. Not implying chess is anything thrilling to begin with but watching scripted (literally scripted bots in dungeons) is just awful.
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    This is an interesting development, imho.

    For this idea to succeed, the AI will need to be improved to provide a more entertaining spectacle, which can only benefit PVE in general.

    e-Sports is about entertainment first, regardless how that entertainment is delivered. PVP has led the way, because human players are unpredictable, which has entertainment value.

    Watching a group of human players running the same dungeon over and over again will not hold an audience for long. Blizzard will have to spice it up one way or another. But Blizzard usually delivers, so let's see where they go with this idea...
  • H4lucinationH4lucination Member UncommonPosts: 18
    Or they could fix PvP huh?
    Psym0n
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    winghaven1 said:
    It's not exciting watching players play chess vs bots. This is the same thing. Not implying chess is anything thrilling to begin with but watching scripted (literally scripted bots in dungeons) is just awful.

    I think you're missing the point. This is a competitive match between multiple teams of people competing against each other on the same dungeon to be the fastest to finish. Effectively this is racing. The only difference is that you can't impact the other team. That being said, there are race sports where they do staggered starts so that they avoid that aspect of you impacting other players. So it's effectively the same. 

    I don't know why people have difficulty making that connection. 
    Cazriel

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
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    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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  • Raven322Raven322 Member UncommonPosts: 68
    edited September 2017

    Horusra said:


    Panther2103 said:

    So it would be like speedrunning for mythic+ dungeons? That seems like a weird thing to have in Esports, since the idea of Esports has always been players vs other players. I guess in general it still is players vs other players, but in a leaderboard style as opposed to reacting to how other people play. I just can't see it working really. I don't think it would be fun to watch because once a team has something down to a science, you wont see much variation of how everyone does it, and in turn watching a bunch of people do the same thing over and over would be very boring.


    you have just described track and field.



    And pretty much all 'fastest lap' sports, downhill skiing, bobsled, , world rally cars etc
    Cazriel
  • Jonnyp2Jonnyp2 Member UncommonPosts: 243
    edited September 2017
    This is probably the first expansion where I've focused more on PvE than PvP, generally I do nothing but queue arena.  Despite that I found the PvP regionals must more entertaining than the M+ qualifiers.  It's a pity PvP is in such a poor state as this was easily the best production I've seen at an arena tournament.  

    Blizzard has repeatedly stated that they are very happy with M+ participation.  I'd expect the next expansion to have even more of a focus on competitive dungeon running. Hopefully that improves the viewer experience.

    Arena may be dying, but it's at least another poorly balanced expansion away from being dead.  I know I'm playing quite a few different teams in the 2300s, even at awkward times.  Some alts around 2k will very rarely play the same team twice.  Definitely in its' lowest point, but not nearly as bad as this article portrays it.  
  • monochrome19monochrome19 Member UncommonPosts: 723
    edited September 2017
    WoW was not designed for hardcore PvP, and most other MMOs (FFXIV for instance) aren't either. They might have them included, but they are an afterthought in design. Compare them to games like LoL, which are DESIGNED for PvP and they are not even in the same league (no pun intended). The only MMO that I can see going toe-to-toe with MOBAs is Blade & Soul, but even its Twitch presence is lackluster, despite being one of -- if not -- the best MMOs for PVP.

    Trying to shoehorn PVP into games that arent built around it will always be a disaster.
    pantaro
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    @monochrome19 That's why I think maybe Blizz is starting to look at PvE content for eSports. It's competitive in a completely different way :)
    Tsiya


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • Gobstopper3DGobstopper3D Member RarePosts: 970

    Panther2103 said:

    So it would be like speedrunning for mythic+ dungeons? That seems like a weird thing to have in Esports, since the idea of Esports has always been players vs other players. I guess in general it still is players vs other players, but in a leaderboard style as opposed to reacting to how other people play. I just can't see it working really. I don't think it would be fun to watch because once a team has something down to a science, you wont see much variation of how everyone does it, and in turn watching a bunch of people do the same thing over and over would be very boring.



    Similar to what watching PVP is right now.

    I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.

  • pantaropantaro Member RarePosts: 515

    monochrome19 said:

    WoW was not designed for hardcore PvP, and most other MMOs (FFXIV for instance) aren't either. They might have them included, but they are an afterthought in design. Compare them to games like LoL, which are DESIGNED for PvP and they are not even in the same league (no pun intended). The only MMO that I can see going toe-to-toe with MOBAs is Blade & Soul, but even its Twitch presence is lackluster, despite being one of -- if not -- the best MMOs for PVP.



    Trying to shoehorn PVP into games that arent built around it will always be a disaster.



    totally agree! if i was into hardcore pvp the last thing in the world i would play to get my fix would be a themepark mmo,pvp is such an after thought in these games.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,583
    Maybe, depending on how it was handled. I think it would have to be more dynamic than a leader board over time type of thing.

    I think it would garner more interest as concurrent competition between two teams clearing different instances of the same content.

    Perhaps the Win-Loss record of each team could be tracked over a season, eventually leading to playoffs that would determine a champion for that period of time, with the process starting anew with each season that comes along.

    I don't know if even WoW's massive population would provide a large enough interest for this kind of thing to work as an e-sport, but it would have the best chance of any.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Wows mechanics are not that great for E-sport, it is one thing to be fun to play but something completelly different to be fun to watch.

    I don't think PvE is the saviour of it either, the problem is still the same but more so since there isn't a competing team to beat (something all kind of sportsfan tend to enjoy watching).

    The solution would be a rather large combat revamp and there is risk with something like that, while a revamp might make it far more interesting to watch the fans might think it would be less fun to play. Also, a combat revamp like that would be expensive.

    If Blizzard want a E-sport MMO they should create such a game from scratch instead, they are after all good at making games people like to watch it is just that when they made Wow they never considered to make it fun to watch.
    pantaro
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    Loke666 said:

    If Blizzard want a E-sport MMO they should create such a game from scratch instead, they are after all good at making games people like to watch it is just that when they made Wow they never considered to make it fun to watch.
    Like Project Titan aka Overwatch? :/ I still wish Titan had become a thing.


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,556
    Even OW is boring to watch as esports with all the bottleneck maps and shields so any attempt to make any part of WoW into esports will put people to sleep. The best pvp Blizz game was WC3 imo everything else is an unbalanced mess that they can't fix and when they try they screw up even more.

    I would say stick to what they're good at but I don't really think they are even good at that anymore.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited September 2017
    Horusra said:
    So it would be like speedrunning for mythic+ dungeons? That seems like a weird thing to have in Esports, since the idea of Esports has always been players vs other players. I guess in general it still is players vs other players, but in a leaderboard style as opposed to reacting to how other people play. I just can't see it working really. I don't think it would be fun to watch because once a team has something down to a science, you wont see much variation of how everyone does it, and in turn watching a bunch of people do the same thing over and over would be very boring.

    you have just described track and field.
    And we all know how popular that is...  TV ratings are out the roof for collegiate relay racing!

    image
  • General-ZodGeneral-Zod Member UncommonPosts: 868
    edited September 2017
    Isn't one of the reasons behind PvE was to relax and avoid competitiveness?

    What's next, Yoga Battles? 

    Let's see who can Zen the most...

    image
  • CazrielCazriel Member RarePosts: 419
    Well, that certainly explains their force-feeding of dungeons and raids in Legion for every inch of progression. I have no doubt that speedrunning dungeons will be a hit. If D3 has taught Blizz anything, it's that a certain number of players love speedrunning.

    Yes, I bet they are tickled that so many people are doing dungeons and raids. I looked at my quest tracker yesterday on my main. Every single quest in it was a dungeon or raid. Other than world quests, there wasn't a single thing for me to do to advance my character that didn't require a dungeon.

    I took my tank through his first ever dungeon and it was pathetic. On normal. Next, I get to try my healer, who hasn't healed since she was a shadow priest healing Zul'Farrak at max level. I even still have the hammer in my inventory. Yeah, back when shadows could heal a raid.

    That doesn't mean I'm enjoying it or want to do it or am any good at it. It does mean that WoW's next expansion has gone from the You Bet! column to the Uhn, Maybe Not column on my buy list.
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 6,057
    I don't see PVE as ever being much of a draw.  Although I will admit to sometimes watching hardcore races in POE, but those come down to too much RNG for my tastes.

    WOW doesn't need to be a spectator sport, they should just focus on keeping the game fresh
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,177
    I do watch videos of other people playing when I want to find out what mistakes to avoid for a dungeon run but to actually just watch others play a game for a pastime isn't my idea of fun. I understand that there is money to be had in the promotion of this activity but it boggles my mind.

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