CoH was a mistake - like I said that's the only one on the list that should have kept running.
Why? All the shut down games had it coming but this one didn't? Why was this one different? It wasn't massively succesful when they pulled the plug, it might have been before the big decline other titles went through but thats about it.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
With the exception of CoH, at the time when they got shut down, these games were in a bad state.
yes many of them were great early on, but lets get real, they needed to get shut down as many became pale shadows of their former selves.
These were mercy killings IMO
I highly disagree with this sentiment regarding Asheron's Call. There were still people actively subscribing before it went Free-to-Play. The player base could have been consolidated and supported using my desktop PC to host it.... Financially, the only reason they were in any sort of "bad state" was some sort of licensing/royalty issue. That game could have gone another 10 years if they had integrated a creative monetization scheme instead of releasing it as FTP. Considering it outlasted every other game on the list and still had 1,000's of active users when they shut down the server (myself amongst them).
Not sure how SWG and COH made the top two spots over Asheron's Call. SwG was not just cancelled, it was an SOE-created nightmare near the end. That game lasted what, 4 years? There were some great things about SWG, but I could make an equal-if-not-longer list of bad things, even from launch or when it peaked. COH was good, but I still think AC takes the cake, as it had an active subscription-base for over 15 years.
Earth and Beyond is the greatest ... still playable in emulator form
Bigger and better than the original !!
The Earth and Beyond Sunrise EMU has been up and running for a few years now . Many of the original players are still around and playing .
It is a bit dated but still immense fun and relaxing . There is a database and forum for new players to help along the way as you rise to Level 150.
Multiboxing is permitted , which I like a lot .
There are 3 new classes to play that were not included in the live version.
Check it out , it is free.
Welcome to Earth & Beyond Emulator.
Its your turn to pilot your own starship, adventure in a massive galaxy, and take part in a thriving community. Alien encounters, fierce combat, cutthroat commerce, new discoveries, perilous quests, strategic alliances, diplomatic backstabbing, and epic wars await you and the friends you meet online.
Create and Command Your Starship.
Start your career in style with a powerful starship designed, painted and named by you. Upgrade your starship with new weapons, engines, shields, and devices.
Form Powerful Alliances.
The galaxy is populated with thousands of brave starship captains like you. Team up for group adventures to reap the benefits of cooperative exploration, trade, and combat.
Lead Mankinds Galactic Expansion.
Visit fascinating alien worlds, discover strange space phenomena, harvest precious resources, fight in massive battles, and trade your goods at thriving starbases.
Live Your Own Life.
Become powerful by succeeding in the challenges you enjoy the most, including combat, exploration, and trade. Choose from a variety of space-faring careers, each with a unique blend of potent skills.
Star In A Sci-Fi Epic.
As this epic story of humanitys struggle to colonize the stars unfolds, the galaxy will change before your eyes. Your actions, and those of your allies and enemies, will determine the fate of humanity and the course of the galaxy.
Cool was already having a crappy day now heres a list to make you hate your day even more. SWG was such a great mmorpg. I thought it was doing fantastically so idk why it just poofed. I thought it had something to do with the new Starwars that came out like it didn't want to compete with it. Think it should have stayed alive people would have gone back to it.
CoH was a mistake - like I said that's the only one on the list that should have kept running.
Why? All the shut down games had it coming but this one didn't? Why was this one different? It wasn't massively succesful when they pulled the plug, it might have been before the big decline other titles went through but thats about it.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
At the time of sunset CoH had more players than many of the shut down games on this list combined.
That's why I said they pulled the plug before the massive decline some of the other titles on the list had. Still, they tried a free trial, sub numbers were probably less then 100k and perhaps it took a lot of money to keep it running compared to other games. But since we don't know any of that I don't see why CoH was a mistake to shut down and the rest wasn't, it wasn't a 'better' game then others on the list.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
If I'm not mistaken, didn't TR have the sort of dynamic content where the aliens would spawn invasions waves and actually take over bases if players didn't fight them off?
If so, I would definitely give it a 7-10 spot for that. Hell, there are MMORPGs released within the past 4 years that haven't included such dynamically shifting worlds.
Yes, you are spot on, these events were awesome. Also a lot of mobs didn't just spawn, the flew in with ships, fell from trees etc. Amazing stuff really.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
If I'm not mistaken, didn't TR have the sort of dynamic content where the aliens would spawn invasions waves and actually take over bases if players didn't fight them off?
If so, I would definitely give it a 7-10 spot for that. Hell, there are MMORPGs released within the past 4 years that haven't included such dynamically shifting worlds.
Yes, you are spot on, these events were awesome. Also a lot of mobs didn't just spawn, the flew in with ships, fell from trees etc. Amazing stuff really.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
I knew I remembered defending bases from dropships of aliens ala the Halo series.
Love or hate Garriott, that was way ahead of its time. Of course, Garriott was busy being a rocket man at the time, which surely didn't help TR's outlook.
I wish I'd have started playing mmos a long time ago. Sadly I did not get to experience most of the games on this list. I had only just begun playing Vanguard when it was shut down.
Earth & Beyond runs still! It was rebuild by the Community.
I am playing it right now! (for free) They even included the 3 missing Classes and missing Sectors.
Have to say AC and SWG I miss the most. Great games at just the right time. SWG was ruined by unstated person(s) yet it still gets high marks in my book.
“The reason I talk to myself is because I’m the only one whose answers I accept.”
―
George Carlin
I had 4 accounts in SWG before the NGE. One of the most fun MMOs I've ever played. On days I didn't feel like combat, I would either craft or sit in the cantina and entertain others. Crafting in SWG has never been duplicated and that's a shame. Still waiting for some developer to take all of the good from SWG and make an awesome Star Wars Game. I'm guessing Raph Koster wouls need to be involved in some way.
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
The most depressing part of the list for me is that none of the current MMOs do what these dead ones did. None of them offer what these did. Dynamic crafting, entertaining, diplomacy, open worlds, open events, housing... these seem to be avoided mechanics in the new, popular MMOs.
I am currently playing ESO. I am enjoying the questing and the delves but whenever I complain about the crafting system I am shushed by all the fanboys: "This is the best crafting system ever!"
Everything is streamlined and dumbed down to make it "more accessible". I understand that reasoning, but give me options. Maybe I want to be JUST a crafter, or a musician. Maybe I don't want to play meta-theory builds to powerlevel to endgame...
While I played and miss most of the games on the list, especially SWG, Shadowbane and AC, I miss MxO the most. The music, score, look and feel of the game was just spot on with the movie atmosphere. It wasn't the best game, but I loved being "Jacked In!"
Met my SO in MxO! Will always have a special place in my heart. Agree on all your points, though I miss City of Heroes the most.
People used to meet their SO in the old MMOs, now you meet only SOBs. -Vice President of the Old Gentlemen's Club (President is Kyleran)
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Glad to see CoH make another top ten list, sad that it qualifies for this one. It didn't have a lot to start with, just more variety of characters than you'll see in any game today except Champions and DCU, and above all Lots of "friends who hadn't met yet" who loved to invite you to team up and work together in PvE, good guys vs bad guys. OH, and wonderful travel powers -- just flying or super-jumping around was a pleasure! I thought adding PvP and CoV and Architect detracted from that vibe, but they also added wonderful new character options, customizable powers -- it was also the first decent 3D environment where you could be a Furry (Second Life had a Furry option but it was more like a fursuit).
Oh Tabula Rasa -- people keep mentioning it, and I would, too, but I think that's going to be on the list of games that never really got out of the gate. I was SO looking forward to that one! Not only did it promise persistent changes in the world, it offered at least one role where you could be valuable to your team by... get this: USING YOUR BRAIN! It had a pictographic alien written language that you could learn and knowing it would actually be used in the game! As I recall, there would also be things like solving puzzles and defusing bombs and such, which a specialist would do while the other players fended off attackers. But after I'd been involved in a contest based on interpreting a message in the language, I waited for the outcome... for more newsletters... news of some sort... but it had just disappeared.
I heard it did open on one or more European server, but that's all I heard, and it was long after the fact, from someone who had been lucky enough to play it.
I think SWG is the only other game I really miss not having experienced. It sounds the closest to any game I've heard of even today where you could just live in its virtual world and do what you wanted to, and other players would support you. Again, there's Second Life, but that seemed more like a 3D avatar chat with room to roam, to me.
Anyone remember Fury from an australian company? A pvp game with no pve whatsoever... I must be one of the only person who remember it AND had good times. It's pretty difficult finding informations about that game!
Thanks, that was a nice read, quite informative in the light of where the industry got since then... all those hints of how to please the publishers, even against the artistic vision if that fits the sales better - smells pretty much like Legends to me
And it's a fitting example for the reception part as well, TSW also had only a moderate (heh) start, with tons of voices from those who are not getting the design or the ideas behind.
With a car analogy (since AA had vehicles ) at the time of launch AA was like the Citroën DS was in the '50s, something totally new and unexpected and like a UFO. And not just by the vehicles and the fast yet still tab-target combat, it had a lot of great ideas. The vehicle building, with balancing out the elements, taking into calculation the heat production, the weight, the different weapons... heck, tires alone could be a make-or-break element, based on the terrain.
The whole speed setting, in an era where all characters had maybe 2-3 settings (walk, run and maybe run buff) and all were the same speed to everyone... and in AA you could have your max. speed set where you wanted in a wide range (only depended how you've built your vehicle), and it really mattered, not just on the races but I remember at a bossfight where at the end it simply drove off and I couldn't catch it with my nicely balanced tank no matter how much I pushed everything onto speed
Speaking of that, also a great (and new) idea, the on-the-fly setting change, according to the situation. That was taken over by STO a few years later - actually, since Cryptic were under NCsoft during those years, I always thought they took a lot of stuff from AA when they've designed STO, even if they only started to develop it after they've left NC. The separate ship (vehicle) and character building, where the character gives slight boosts to the overall package when in the vehicle, the "balancing" idea (diverting power from shield, weapons or speed on the fly, based on what the situation requires), the weapon characteristics and firing arcs (turrets have 360, while front, back and side weapons need proper aligning), etc.
I had no idea about the finance issues they talk about at the start of that article. As I remember, the game never felt empty, not even on the lower areas (maybe due to the free trials). Anyhow, thanks again, it was a nice article.
Comments
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I highly disagree with this sentiment regarding Asheron's Call. There were still people actively subscribing before it went Free-to-Play. The player base could have been consolidated and supported using my desktop PC to host it.... Financially, the only reason they were in any sort of "bad state" was some sort of licensing/royalty issue. That game could have gone another 10 years if they had integrated a creative monetization scheme instead of releasing it as FTP. Considering it outlasted every other game on the list and still had 1,000's of active users when they shut down the server (myself amongst them).
Not sure how SWG and COH made the top two spots over Asheron's Call. SwG was not just cancelled, it was an SOE-created nightmare near the end. That game lasted what, 4 years? There were some great things about SWG, but I could make an equal-if-not-longer list of bad things, even from launch or when it peaked. COH was good, but I still think AC takes the cake, as it had an active subscription-base for over 15 years.
Earth and Beyond is the greatest ... still playable in emulator form
Bigger and better than the original !!
The Earth and Beyond Sunrise EMU has been up and running for a few years now . Many of the original players are still around and playing .
It is a bit dated but still immense fun and relaxing . There is a database and forum for new players to help along the way as you rise to Level 150.
Multiboxing is permitted , which I like a lot .
There are 3 new classes to play that were not included in the live version.
Check it out , it is free.
Welcome to Earth & Beyond Emulator.
Its your turn to pilot your own starship, adventure in a massive galaxy, and take part in a thriving community. Alien encounters, fierce combat, cutthroat commerce, new discoveries, perilous quests, strategic alliances, diplomatic backstabbing, and epic wars await you and the friends you meet online.
Create and Command Your Starship.
Start your career in style with a powerful starship designed, painted and named by you. Upgrade your starship with new weapons, engines, shields, and devices.
Form Powerful Alliances.
The galaxy is populated with thousands of brave starship captains like you. Team up for group adventures to reap the benefits of cooperative exploration, trade, and combat.
Lead Mankinds Galactic Expansion.
Visit fascinating alien worlds, discover strange space phenomena, harvest precious resources, fight in massive battles, and trade your goods at thriving starbases.
Live Your Own Life.
Become powerful by succeeding in the challenges you enjoy the most, including combat, exploration, and trade. Choose from a variety of space-faring careers, each with a unique blend of potent skills.
Star In A Sci-Fi Epic.
As this epic story of humanitys struggle to colonize the stars unfolds, the galaxy will change before your eyes. Your actions, and those of your allies and enemies, will determine the fate of humanity and the course of the galaxy.
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Love or hate Garriott, that was way ahead of its time. Of course, Garriott was busy being a rocket man at the time, which surely didn't help TR's outlook.
I am playing it right now! (for free) They even included the 3 missing Classes and missing Sectors.
Check it out https://www.net-7.org/
― George Carlin
Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall.
I am currently playing ESO. I am enjoying the questing and the delves but whenever I complain about the crafting system I am shushed by all the fanboys: "This is the best crafting system ever!"
Everything is streamlined and dumbed down to make it "more accessible". I understand that reasoning, but give me options. Maybe I want to be JUST a crafter, or a musician. Maybe I don't want to play meta-theory builds to powerlevel to endgame...
~sighs~
TSW, LotRO, EQ2, SWTOR, GW2, V:SoH, Neverwinter, ArchAge, EQ, UO, DAoC, WAR, DDO, AoC, MO, BDO, SotA, B&S, ESO,
-Vice President of the Old Gentlemen's Club (President is Kyleran)
Oh Tabula Rasa -- people keep mentioning it, and I would, too, but I think that's going to be on the list of games that never really got out of the gate. I was SO looking forward to that one! Not only did it promise persistent changes in the world, it offered at least one role where you could be valuable to your team by... get this: USING YOUR BRAIN! It had a pictographic alien written language that you could learn and knowing it would actually be used in the game! As I recall, there would also be things like solving puzzles and defusing bombs and such, which a specialist would do while the other players fended off attackers. But after I'd been involved in a contest based on interpreting a message in the language, I waited for the outcome... for more newsletters... news of some sort... but it had just disappeared.
I heard it did open on one or more European server, but that's all I heard, and it was long after the fact, from someone who had been lucky enough to play it.
I think SWG is the only other game I really miss not having experienced. It sounds the closest to any game I've heard of even today where you could just live in its virtual world and do what you wanted to, and other players would support you. Again, there's Second Life, but that seemed more like a 3D avatar chat with room to roam, to me.
And it's a fitting example for the reception part as well, TSW also had only a moderate (heh) start, with tons of voices from those who are not getting the design or the ideas behind.
With a car analogy (since AA had vehicles
The whole speed setting, in an era where all characters had maybe 2-3 settings (walk, run and maybe run buff) and all were the same speed to everyone... and in AA you could have your max. speed set where you wanted in a wide range (only depended how you've built your vehicle), and it really mattered, not just on the races but I remember at a bossfight where at the end it simply drove off and I couldn't catch it with my nicely balanced tank no matter how much I pushed everything onto speed
Speaking of that, also a great (and new) idea, the on-the-fly setting change, according to the situation. That was taken over by STO a few years later - actually, since Cryptic were under NCsoft during those years, I always thought they took a lot of stuff from AA when they've designed STO, even if they only started to develop it after they've left NC.
The separate ship (vehicle) and character building, where the character gives slight boosts to the overall package when in the vehicle, the "balancing" idea (diverting power from shield, weapons or speed on the fly, based on what the situation requires), the weapon characteristics and firing arcs (turrets have 360, while front, back and side weapons need proper aligning), etc.
I had no idea about the finance issues they talk about at the start of that article. As I remember, the game never felt empty, not even on the lower areas (maybe due to the free trials).
Anyhow, thanks again, it was a nice article.