Stormblood was a nice addition storywise, but has no lasting appeal. At least on PC they lost most of the players that joined or returned for SB. I subbed for two months and then canceled again, because everything got boring and tedious so fast. I guess XIV is mostly played by FF fans or console gamers with no MMO experience whatsoever.
While that number does show a trend, it isn't accurate at all. Mainly because that is just steam numbers. I don't think I know anyone who actually plays on steam at all, and I have quite a few friends who play on PC. I play on both PC and PS4, and currently I do notice a lot more players than prior to the Stormblood launch. I would say it's growing on my server at least. There are usually players in every zone, in mostly every single area I've been in. It's nice.
I do not see any relevance trying to show numbers,it does not make a game better,even though Blizzard likes to toot it's horn often with numbers.
Time of day,multiple account players,there is no real accurate assessment of a game's health.I mentioned when i went back to Wow about 4 years ago,it was a ghost town,i saw maybe 5-7 people in an entire week.So there is no interaction,no MMO feel,it is likely a bunch of players doing instances all day,sad reality of a mmorpg. Point being if i joined Wow ,why would i care if they show 10 million accounts,if i see nobody in the world and the same goes for ANY game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
From everything I've seen and heard (and I know 2 people who play the game) they sure as he'll don't feel like the game is the biggest its ever been by any stretch. Also the 10m players is not active subs and will never even touch WoWs hight of active subs...likely no game will ever come close.
I still find it surprising that they are so proud of their "most players ever" yet won't even hint at the actual active number and just push the "player" mark which really means very little to active players.
FFXIV's growth in numbers has followed its release in China. Same thing happened with WoW. Given the size of the Chinese market - coupled with increased access to tech - I think it premature to say that WoW's 12M won't be surpassed. It might not be as you say and even if it was this would in no way detract from WoW's success especially as FFXIV has a cultural edge when it comes to China.
You should look up the history of China and Japan to better understand there's still no love lost between these two nations.
Start with the Nanking Massacre and go through WWII.
What is a little genocide between nations have to do with anything?
LOL people still trying to mix words and still get it wrong.
LOS ANGELES (July 19, 2016) – SQUARE ENIX® today announced that the critically-acclaimed, FINAL FANTASY® XIV has now drawn in over six million cumulative players globally--excluding free trial—in under three years.
That game isnt full PC so they count PS3 numbers as well, and I am sure some of the generic subs they require get counted. Not to mention there is a loop hole there, the 30 day free trial was actually extended so its not hard to think that even if it were technically a free trial due to that extension Square Equinox counted anything over 30 days as a non free trial period.
There is always marketing spin when people throw numbers around like this.
But considering what a disaster it was at release it has rebounded well. But its still an Asian grinder and when people start discussing numbers they should really break it down into regions. Because US players (NA) really dont care, they barely care about Euro players. And if you start talking about Asian playerbase they tune right out.
Also the 6 million they cite is CUMULATIVE not CONCURRENT. HUGE difference.
They did a great job with the come back. Not to many games would have shut down and redesigned most of the game. Most games that try usually leave in the things that were the most problematic and make changes all around it. Good for them. Party on!
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You should edit the WoW comparison in article accordingly, or remove the comparison completely.
@Vrika ;What the press release says is 10M cumulative players as of today - which includes those playing using a trial account.
It doesn't say they have passed 10M total accounts - that number is presumably higher.
So the comparison with WoW's 12M is accurate-ish. Except FFXIV's includes trial acounts (but as I pointed out in my post above includes at least 6M subs) whereas WoW's 12M doesn't include people on a trial to level 20.
The equivalent ESO number, for example, would be 7M - as last announced. (Unless someone has seen them give out a higher number).
What do you think cumulative means?
It means everyone they've counted as a player at any point in the life of the game. For FF XIV that number is now 10 million, for WoW that number was 100 million in December 2013.
"cumulative
Incorporating all current and previous data up to the present or at the time of measuring or collating"
If it goes F2P, which I heavily doubt it ever will, I would be all over playing the crap out of this!
Now see, this puzzles me.
If I was interested in playing this game the payment model wouldn't really be a factor unless it was over the top pay to win.
You really can't justify a $15 per month sub even though you think you would love to play it?
Weird.
Ever since you're comment, I've been trying really hard to figure out what they could possibly sell to make the game p2w. Like what would anyone win exactly in this game? PvP has 0 gear dependency what so ever (which usually causes a p2w argument) and around 85% of the population doesn't even do savage content (well maybe more have now since it was perceived to be easier than previous savage raids so far, plus some of the changes have made raid progression faster, like cooldown resets on wipes). Money making maybe? But there's nothing really to spend money on other than houses and they are kind of useless tbh unless you build them up to do certain things for rare materials to make more irrelevant stuff that is mostly vanity anyway. I dont even know what wow could sell in their cash shop that would constitute as p2w if they decided to go f2p since most people dont care about stuff in the game after a certain point anyway.
If it goes F2P, which I heavily doubt it ever will, I would be all over playing the crap out of this!
Now see, this puzzles me.
If I was interested in playing this game the payment model wouldn't really be a factor unless it was over the top pay to win.
You really can't justify a $15 per month sub even though you think you would love to play it?
Weird.
Ever since you're comment, I've been trying really hard to figure out what they could possibly sell to make the game p2w. Like what would anyone win exactly in this game? PvP has 0 gear dependency what so ever (which usually causes a p2w argument) and around 85% of the population doesn't even do savage content (well maybe more have now since it was perceived to be easier than previous savage raids so far, plus some of the changes have made raid progression faster, like cooldown resets on wipes). Money making maybe? But there's nothing really to spend money on other than houses and they are kind of useless tbh unless you build them up to do certain things for rare materials to make more irrelevant stuff that is mostly vanity anyway. I dont even know what wow could sell in their cash shop that would constitute as p2w if they decided to go f2p since most people dont care about stuff in the game after a certain point anyway.
I wasn't implying game was P2W, just saying that's about the only scenario I can think of where I would let payment model influence my decision to play. A $15 sub fee would never deter me.
But I see you posted earlier you felt this game had an egregious cash shop model though here you are backing off of it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Hard to dislike the comback story this game has gone through. From unmitigated disaster to a very successful MMORPG. Not too many companies have the resolve and resources to do what SE did with this game.
Stormblood was (on the whole) good, and I'm still playing (for now), but I do wonder how long it will last... Not that I expect them to close it down any time soon, just that between the half-baked skill revamp and the 'same-old' in terms of content, some things do need to change / be improved if FFXIV is going to remain healthy in the long term.
If it goes F2P, which I heavily doubt it ever will, I would be all over playing the crap out of this!
Now see, this puzzles me.
If I was interested in playing this game the payment model wouldn't really be a factor unless it was over the top pay to win.
You really can't justify a $15 per month sub even though you think you would love to play it?
Weird.
That depens. For example, i love WoW and FFXIV, and i dont mind the subscription. However, i only subscribe 1-3 months a year. Would i play more often if it was B2P with an optional sub like ESO, or even like Gw2? absolutely. I dont mind subscribing, but i do mind subscribing every month for a whole year. That is a lot of money i rather spend buying many other games rather than spend it just to be able to access one game i already paid for.
If XIV continues to be sub only i will continue to play slowly and buy every expansion, but i will not subscribe for more than 1-3 times a year. That is enough time for me to see what i want to see, the story.
If it goes F2P, which I heavily doubt it ever will, I would be all over playing the crap out of this!
Now see, this puzzles me.
If I was interested in playing this game the payment model wouldn't really be a factor unless it was over the top pay to win.
You really can't justify a $15 per month sub even though you think you would love to play it?
Weird.
Ever since you're comment, I've been trying really hard to figure out what they could possibly sell to make the game p2w. Like what would anyone win exactly in this game? PvP has 0 gear dependency what so ever (which usually causes a p2w argument) and around 85% of the population doesn't even do savage content (well maybe more have now since it was perceived to be easier than previous savage raids so far, plus some of the changes have made raid progression faster, like cooldown resets on wipes). Money making maybe? But there's nothing really to spend money on other than houses and they are kind of useless tbh unless you build them up to do certain things for rare materials to make more irrelevant stuff that is mostly vanity anyway. I dont even know what wow could sell in their cash shop that would constitute as p2w if they decided to go f2p since most people dont care about stuff in the game after a certain point anyway.
Literally every p2p game that transitions to f2p has a huge update that changes a lot of the mechanics of the game to make the cash shop appealing/necessary. Tera was a pretty cool game(their main problem was the abysmal pace when it came to releasing new content that contributed heavily to the downfall of the game).
But f2p Tera is nothing like P2P Tera. The BAMs for instance. They used to actually be a challenge before the f2p patch. They awarded amazing exp because of the challenge. Enmasse was like nah, we're nerfing BAMs and thus nerfing the amount of exp you could gain killing them(which made leveling a lot slower) to make the exp potions/rates from subbing look all the more attractive.
That's just one example of how they gut a game to make the cash shop more appealing.
If it goes F2P, which I heavily doubt it ever will, I would be all over playing the crap out of this!
Now see, this puzzles me.
If I was interested in playing this game the payment model wouldn't really be a factor unless it was over the top pay to win.
You really can't justify a $15 per month sub even though you think you would love to play it?
Weird.
That depens. For example, i love WoW and FFXIV, and i dont mind the subscription. However, i only subscribe 1-3 months a year. Would i play more often if it was B2P with an optional sub like ESO, or even like Gw2? absolutely. I dont mind subscribing, but i do mind subscribing every month for a whole year. That is a lot of money i rather spend buying many other games rather than spend it just to be able to access one game i already paid for.
If XIV continues to be sub only i will continue to play slowly and buy every expansion, but i will not subscribe for more than 1-3 times a year. That is enough time for me to see what i want to see, the story.
15 x 12 = 180 dollars. Assuming you're not limiting yourself to super old games that are like 10 bucks, That'll get you around 5 games. Mmos like WoW/FFXIV are able to be played year round, literally thousands of hours worth. What 5 games are you buying every year that gives you thousands of hours worth of content?
So looking at it from a purely played time stance...mmorpgs are cheaper.
Most people always recommend to NOT buy FFXIV from Steam, most newbies are redirected to SE official store. Steam numbers are very inaccurate, I doubt any MMO ever is able to have enough "lasting power" to keep that graphic data going up.
It's doing well and it won't go F2P anytime soon, not even FFXI is F2P. I don't know about being a rival to WoW, I doubt it. but It's my first choice for a theme park MMO for sure, subscription running while waiting for Pantheon, will take a break from it to play Pantheon if it's good enough and delivers.
Steam is such a bad way to go for FFXIV unfortunately, yes. The client hasn't been updated on Steam in a long time, such that you basically end up redownloading the whole game through the patcher anyway. Nasty business.
And god damn it Yoshida, don't even joke about F2P.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
If it wasn't for the mandatory subscription I would have looked at buy the game. I am on very limited income so if the game is setup as a buy to play along the lines of ESO and Guild Wars I would be interested in playing. Just that I can not afford the monthly sub on games. I don't even drink or smoke, the only things I frequently spend money on are my back pain meds and doctor recommended energy drinks to recover from respiratory flare ups so that don't sleep 16+ hours only 6 to 8 hours to recover and be awake again. So no real money to spare.
Only get about 8 to 12 energy drinks each month to last the month if I can even afford that. If it is a bad and I go through them in the first 2 weeks needing 1 a day then I just have to accept that I will be sleeping alot more the second half of the month unable to even work during that time if it stays a bad month for the flare ups. September through May can be really bad for having daily flare ups. Today alone between having the first flare up at 1:30 am waking me up due to getting a bit too cold due to a power outage for a couple hours keeping the furnace from kicking in and getting cold for me to breath, then by 5:30 am we had the power go out again but this time for the next 17 hours and I had my 5th "attack" of the day leading to the whole day spent in bed enclosed in a small trying to keep my air at breathable temps for my system (a standard room temp of 16 to 20 Cel). We got a heavy enough snowfall to take out the power in the area and even had a tree on our property come down from the weight of the "wet" snow that stuck to it.
If it goes F2P, which I heavily doubt it ever will, I would be all over playing the crap out of this!
Now see, this puzzles me.
If I was interested in playing this game the payment model wouldn't really be a factor unless it was over the top pay to win.
You really can't justify a $15 per month sub even though you think you would love to play it?
Weird.
Ever since you're comment, I've been trying really hard to figure out what they could possibly sell to make the game p2w. Like what would anyone win exactly in this game? PvP has 0 gear dependency what so ever (which usually causes a p2w argument) and around 85% of the population doesn't even do savage content (well maybe more have now since it was perceived to be easier than previous savage raids so far, plus some of the changes have made raid progression faster, like cooldown resets on wipes). Money making maybe? But there's nothing really to spend money on other than houses and they are kind of useless tbh unless you build them up to do certain things for rare materials to make more irrelevant stuff that is mostly vanity anyway. I dont even know what wow could sell in their cash shop that would constitute as p2w if they decided to go f2p since most people dont care about stuff in the game after a certain point anyway.
I wasn't implying game was P2W, just saying that's about the only scenario I can think of where I would let payment model influence my decision to play. A $15 sub fee would never deter me.
But I see you posted earlier you felt this game had an egregious cash shop model though here you are backing off of it.
Backing off of it? Saying the game can't be p2w doesn't mean the cash shop is perfectly fine with the game. If you read what I wrote, the issues with the cash shop are the fact that they nickle and dime people any way they can to the point where you buying a gender specific item when they've let you swap gender cosmetics in game in the past. Just because they aren't selling mats and crap in the cash shop doesn't mean they aren't doing crap that isn't just as bad or worse than some f2p games.
If it goes F2P, which I heavily doubt it ever will, I would be all over playing the crap out of this!
Now see, this puzzles me.
If I was interested in playing this game the payment model wouldn't really be a factor unless it was over the top pay to win.
You really can't justify a $15 per month sub even though you think you would love to play it?
Weird.
Ever since you're comment, I've been trying really hard to figure out what they could possibly sell to make the game p2w. Like what would anyone win exactly in this game? PvP has 0 gear dependency what so ever (which usually causes a p2w argument) and around 85% of the population doesn't even do savage content (well maybe more have now since it was perceived to be easier than previous savage raids so far, plus some of the changes have made raid progression faster, like cooldown resets on wipes). Money making maybe? But there's nothing really to spend money on other than houses and they are kind of useless tbh unless you build them up to do certain things for rare materials to make more irrelevant stuff that is mostly vanity anyway. I dont even know what wow could sell in their cash shop that would constitute as p2w if they decided to go f2p since most people dont care about stuff in the game after a certain point anyway.
Literally every p2p game that transitions to f2p has a huge update that changes a lot of the mechanics of the game to make the cash shop appealing/necessary. Tera was a pretty cool game(their main problem was the abysmal pace when it came to releasing new content that contributed heavily to the downfall of the game).
But f2p Tera is nothing like P2P Tera. The BAMs for instance. They used to actually be a challenge before the f2p patch. They awarded amazing exp because of the challenge. Enmasse was like nah, we're nerfing BAMs and thus nerfing the amount of exp you could gain killing them(which made leveling a lot slower) to make the exp potions/rates from subbing look all the more attractive.
That's just one example of how they gut a game to make the cash shop more appealing.
As for nerfs and such to make the cash shop seem more appealing from a progression perspective, you really have to understand the content and power gap in FFXIV which is really small between a casual and hardcore player. The only difference being time and you only will notice that margin of power in savage content which again only a small % of the player base engages in. The only ones who will fall into that trap are those that are honestly new to how this particular game works. That isn't saying that they can't make a lot of money from the cash shop (because honestly that's where half of their revenue is coming from in the western market), I'm just referring to the fact that this game can't really be p2w because there isn't enough content in the game to honestly win at. Now of course they could increase the power gap in the f2p transition even though I wouldn't hold my breath and then sell work arounds on lockouts like some games do but again that heavily depends on the power gap. Right now, hardcore players can only be a total of 5 ilvls higher than a casual player and they only reach that point faster than someone who relies on weekly tome caps to gear, which are usually changed or uncapped after 6 months or so. My point is, they'd have to restructure how current systems work entirely as the game is now in order to really benefit from selling in game progression in the cash shop to at least its current market, which honestly I dont think they have the forethought for.
If it goes F2P, which I heavily doubt it ever will, I would be all over playing the crap out of this!
Now see, this puzzles me.
If I was interested in playing this game the payment model wouldn't really be a factor unless it was over the top pay to win.
You really can't justify a $15 per month sub even though you think you would love to play it?
Weird.
Ever since you're comment, I've been trying really hard to figure out what they could possibly sell to make the game p2w. Like what would anyone win exactly in this game? PvP has 0 gear dependency what so ever (which usually causes a p2w argument) and around 85% of the population doesn't even do savage content (well maybe more have now since it was perceived to be easier than previous savage raids so far, plus some of the changes have made raid progression faster, like cooldown resets on wipes). Money making maybe? But there's nothing really to spend money on other than houses and they are kind of useless tbh unless you build them up to do certain things for rare materials to make more irrelevant stuff that is mostly vanity anyway. I dont even know what wow could sell in their cash shop that would constitute as p2w if they decided to go f2p since most people dont care about stuff in the game after a certain point anyway.
Literally every p2p game that transitions to f2p has a huge update that changes a lot of the mechanics of the game to make the cash shop appealing/necessary. Tera was a pretty cool game(their main problem was the abysmal pace when it came to releasing new content that contributed heavily to the downfall of the game).
But f2p Tera is nothing like P2P Tera. The BAMs for instance. They used to actually be a challenge before the f2p patch. They awarded amazing exp because of the challenge. Enmasse was like nah, we're nerfing BAMs and thus nerfing the amount of exp you could gain killing them(which made leveling a lot slower) to make the exp potions/rates from subbing look all the more attractive.
That's just one example of how they gut a game to make the cash shop more appealing.
As for nerfs and such to make the cash shop seem more appealing from a progression perspective, you really have to understand the content and power gap in FFXIV which is really small between a casual and hardcore player. The only difference being time and you only will notice that margin of power in savage content which again only a small % of the player base engages in. The only ones who will fall into that trap are those that are honestly new to how this particular game works. That isn't saying that they can't make a lot of money from the cash shop (because honestly that's where half of their revenue is coming from in the western market), I'm just referring to the fact that this game can't really be p2w because there isn't enough content in the game to honestly win at. Now of course they could increase the power gap in the f2p transition even though I wouldn't hold my breath and then sell work arounds on lockouts like some games do but again that heavily depends on the power gap. Right now, hardcore players can only be a total of 5 ilvls higher than a casual player and they only reach that point faster than someone who relies on weekly tome caps to gear, which are usually changed or uncapped after 6 months or so. My point is, they'd have to restructure how current systems work entirely as the game is now in order to really benefit from selling in game progression in the cash shop to at least its current market, which honestly I dont think they have the forethought for.
I would be very interested in whatever data you are using that gave you the idea that half the income generated for the game came from the cash shop, but the whole argument is entirely specious so i would be surprised if such a thing actually existed. Citations are most definitely needed.
FF's cash shop is one of the most tame that I have ever seem and I played tons of MMOs, really weird to see people arguing about it, lol. Even cosmetic stuff, unless you absolutely love a NPC's outfit you can always find better looking gear in-game.
FF's cash shop is one of the most tame that I have ever seem and I played tons of MMOs, really weird to see people arguing about it, lol. Even cosmetic stuff, unless you absolutely love a NPC's outfit you can always find better looking gear in-game.
just goes to show people will complain about any and everything.
Comments
Time of day,multiple account players,there is no real accurate assessment of a game's health.I mentioned when i went back to Wow about 4 years ago,it was a ghost town,i saw maybe 5-7 people in an entire week.So there is no interaction,no MMO feel,it is likely a bunch of players doing instances all day,sad reality of a mmorpg.
Point being if i joined Wow ,why would i care if they show 10 million accounts,if i see nobody in the world and the same goes for ANY game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
What is a little genocide between nations have to do with anything?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
If I was interested in playing this game the payment model wouldn't really be a factor unless it was over the top pay to win.
You really can't justify a $15 per month sub even though you think you would love to play it?
Weird.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It means everyone they've counted as a player at any point in the life of the game. For FF XIV that number is now 10 million, for WoW that number was 100 million in December 2013.
"cumulative
- Incorporating all current and previous data up to the present or at the time of measuring or collating"
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cumulativeBut I see you posted earlier you felt this game had an egregious cash shop model though here you are backing off of it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Hard to dislike the comback story this game has gone through. From unmitigated disaster to a very successful MMORPG. Not too many companies have the resolve and resources to do what SE did with this game.
You obviously picked the wrong server to play when you went back. lol
That depens. For example, i love WoW and FFXIV, and i dont mind the subscription. However, i only subscribe 1-3 months a year. Would i play more often if it was B2P with an optional sub like ESO, or even like Gw2? absolutely. I dont mind subscribing, but i do mind subscribing every month for a whole year. That is a lot of money i rather spend buying many other games rather than spend it just to be able to access one game i already paid for.
If XIV continues to be sub only i will continue to play slowly and buy every expansion, but i will not subscribe for more than 1-3 times a year. That is enough time for me to see what i want to see, the story.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
But f2p Tera is nothing like P2P Tera. The BAMs for instance. They used to actually be a challenge before the f2p patch. They awarded amazing exp because of the challenge. Enmasse was like nah, we're nerfing BAMs and thus nerfing the amount of exp you could gain killing them(which made leveling a lot slower) to make the exp potions/rates from subbing look all the more attractive.
That's just one example of how they gut a game to make the cash shop more appealing.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
So looking at it from a purely played time stance...mmorpgs are cheaper.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
It's doing well and it won't go F2P anytime soon, not even FFXI is F2P. I don't know about being a rival to WoW, I doubt it. but It's my first choice for a theme park MMO for sure, subscription running while waiting for Pantheon, will take a break from it to play Pantheon if it's good enough and delivers.
And god damn it Yoshida, don't even joke about F2P.
Only get about 8 to 12 energy drinks each month to last the month if I can even afford that. If it is a bad and I go through them in the first 2 weeks needing 1 a day then I just have to accept that I will be sleeping alot more the second half of the month unable to even work during that time if it stays a bad month for the flare ups. September through May can be really bad for having daily flare ups. Today alone between having the first flare up at 1:30 am waking me up due to getting a bit too cold due to a power outage for a couple hours keeping the furnace from kicking in and getting cold for me to breath, then by 5:30 am we had the power go out again but this time for the next 17 hours and I had my 5th "attack" of the day leading to the whole day spent in bed enclosed in a small trying to keep my air at breathable temps for my system (a standard room temp of 16 to 20 Cel). We got a heavy enough snowfall to take out the power in the area and even had a tree on our property come down from the weight of the "wet" snow that stuck to it.
Citations are most definitely needed.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!