So using that definition, basically any nub who gets a shitload of kickstarter money is a "AAA" developer. roflmao
Those games are referred to as "Having AAA budgets". The developer itself is technically not using their own money so can't really be considered AAA, I think.
Perhaps, but I still consider Star Citizen to be a AAA effort, though not so sure we'll see AAA results.
I hate to admit it, but pickings are slim these days in the large scale virtual world game market.
So regardless whatever "features" this game has or lacks that normally are a turn off for me, (action combat, cash shops, lollies etc) I'll probably give it a trial run anyways.
Unless of course when this game launches the genre is just "awash" in good MMORPGs to play.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I consider neither Bluehole nor Kakao to be "AAA", so no.
Well people can say - "I don't consider the Sun to be a star" - but they'd be wrong.
Just because you don't consider them to be AAA - doesn't change the fact that they ARE AAA studios - Both TERA and BDO are AAA games.
If TERA and BDO are examples of modern "AAA" games, then this genre is indeed fucked beyond repair. Being the shiniest turds in the bowl doesn't make them "AAA", it just makes them shiny turds.
Also what you call turd, many consider as quality products. That is just your personal and somehow emotional opinion.
But I wonder, how much money does a studio have to spend creating a game to be considered a large budget?
If a game is made in Korea I'm guessing its a bit cheaper in terms of labor costs, does that knock it down to AA?
How about if there were gender locked classes, (I know there isn't here, I read the entire thread) does that knock it down a notch?
What about promotion? If BDO is AAA where was all of the advertising dollars spent, certainly not on any TV programs I watch (though I am watching a lot of Netflix these days.)
Heck, BDO never comes up in those annoying Google ads that are targeted to your previous searches, and I've actually searched for the game on it?
If it is the money for development and promotion how much has to be spent and where does it have to be spent to make it AAA.
Fact is, like so many other things in this genre, there's no official definition everyone will ever agree on.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I consider neither Bluehole nor Kakao to be "AAA", so no.
Well people can say - "I don't consider the Sun to be a star" - but they'd be wrong.
Just because you don't consider them to be AAA - doesn't change the fact that they ARE AAA studios - Both TERA and BDO are AAA games.
Bruce Willis is a "star", people could call the Sun a star, but they'd be wrong.
Words are funny things, their definitions can be fuzzy, or sometimes totally different depending on the context or people's agreement on their usage.
For "you" and some subset of the gaming population budget is the only qualifier, even so, how much must be spent to be AAA?
I agree with your definition for the most part, but still have to ask, how much do they have to spend, and do we ever really know how much was spent to create a game?
Ashes team reportedly "plans" to spend $30M plus to make their game, are they AAA? SC has over $150M but I've seen disquaifiers because it's the studios first game, or it was crowdfunded.
Who knows, maybe BDO was created for $30M, if so, AAA still?
For some people, (not you of course) and I know this is a terrible thing to say, just being a Korean made game knocks it down from the AAA pedestal.
Others will discount it for having a predatory cash shop (if it does) or fails to provide PVE servers (no idea if it will) or who knows what reason.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So using that definition, basically any nub who gets a shitload of kickstarter money is a "AAA" developer. roflmao
Those games are referred to as "Having AAA budgets". The developer itself is technically not using their own money so can't really be considered AAA, I think.
Perhaps, but I still consider Star Citizen to be a AAA effort, though not so sure we'll see AAA results.
I hate to admit it, but pickings are slim these days in the large scale virtual world game market.
So regardless whatever "features" this game has or lacks that normally are a turn off for me, (action combat, cash shops, lollies etc) I'll probably give it a trial run anyways.
Unless of course when this game launches the genre is just "awash" in good MMORPGs to play.
Yeah, that isn't the way to bet, right?
You've heard of Triple-I haven't you? If that term hadn't existed before it would have needed to be invented for SC.
But whatever... AAA is not meant to be a taxonomically accurate designation. Most of us know what it means when we use it to refer to a big budget games or studios... except for that one guy in every thread
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
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“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Well for us to say that AAA has returned to the West, we would need to have an idea of the budget for AIR.
To quote the article: "And while there has been some controversy over BDO’s monetization in the past" Well if there has been controversy in the past I assume there is now because no MMO to my knowledge has ever cancelled or scaled back any revenue method. They never take any notice of what players or for that matter the gaming media says.
So as sure as god didn't make little green loot boxes, we are going to see questionable cash shop practise in anything Bluehole Studios produce.
So using that definition, basically any nub who gets a shitload of kickstarter money is a "AAA" developer. roflmao
Those games are referred to as "Having AAA budgets". The developer itself is technically not using their own money so can't really be considered AAA, I think.
Perhaps, but I still consider Star Citizen to be a AAA effort, though not so sure we'll see AAA results.
I hate to admit it, but pickings are slim these days in the large scale virtual world game market.
So regardless whatever "features" this game has or lacks that normally are a turn off for me, (action combat, cash shops, lollies etc) I'll probably give it a trial run anyways.
Unless of course when this game launches the genre is just "awash" in good MMORPGs to play.
Yeah, that isn't the way to bet, right?
You've heard of Triple-I haven't you? If that term hadn't existed before it would have needed to be invented for SC.
But whatever... AAA is not meant to be a taxonomically accurate designation. Most of us know what it means when we use it to refer to a big budget games or studios... except for that one guy in every thread
Just like "most of us know" what a MMO is, or understand what the term "massively" means in the context of online gaming right?
Let's not forget the clearly agreed upon definition of "sandbox style" game.
Besides, around these parts, AAA is the name of the auto club I'm a member of.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I have a hard time understanding why so many people object so much to gender locking.
Because I have no interest in playing female characters.
So play the other classes.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
I have a hard time understanding why so many people object so much to gender locking.
Because I have no interest in playing female characters.
So play the other classes.
That's not a viable solution to the problem. If the devs can't be bothered to make 2 different genders for each class and race, then I can't be bothered to play the game.
Gender lock is, sorry to say, a deal breaker for me if there is no option to play the type of class I prefer as a female character. I simply don't understand why there even is such a thing as gender locking in this era of MMOs.
I guess we'll see once more is known about AIR -- I hope I can find a place since the world really needs a great steampunk game.
Well I guess you are in luck. In the faqs on their forums, they already addressed the question about genderlocking. The plan is to have the 5 classes to be available for both genders.
Probably worth mentioning on a future article, since a lot of people never read comments beyond the first page, @BillMurphy
Well, it's not in the main article that way at all. It was just something people were speculating on.
I'm happy there won't be gender-locked classes. Warrior / Tank all the way in heavy plate for me then. I'll be watching this one with interest because...steampunk *eyes dazzle*
It was indeed in the main article though which is where the speculation began:
"Now, there are two worries I have with the limited info we are privy too – it certainly seems like Bluehole hasn’t learned that gender locked classes are a bad thing in the West. Each of the five classes seems to be locked to male or female."
I understand this wasn't entirely written as a certainty, but indeed providing information that it appeared gender lock was indeed in the game. However, I guess none of this necessarily matters if it has been confirmed there is no gender lock.
I see lots of the COOL/glitter effect bu i did not see any good combat design ,all i saw was spamming combat with cool mechs and mini airships,cool is not enough to get me excited.
Sorry i just noticed last poster said the same thing as me,well guess it is pretty obvious then.
Blizzard,Arena.net on and on MOST including all from KR do not know how to create immersive combat nor grouping combat for that matter.
PUBG is NOT a name i would be throwing around to sell my product.
Anyhow,nothing any of us say matters until we see a working product,nice trailer to garner interest,nothing more.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
What is up with people and gender locking? How can this be more important than gameplay, actual features, aesthetics, class design, monetization... you seriously make your mind up at gender lock? I get it, it sucks; it's a cost saving thing, with the usual bonus of making amazing animation spell effects because you only program one gender for the class.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
There's an important factor in AAA, it is budget for both development and promotion. Now promotion budget might not be important for a singleplayer game, we don't care about that. But we all know for an MMO to sustain it needs proper promotion as well. We all have lost MMO we loved due to lack of players.
What if SWG had a $200m budget for advertisement? Could it still be around? How about CoH? What if instead of Destiny, EVE Online would've gotten a $500m investment?
Promotion budget makes a world of difference and helps the future of a potentially good game.
Also we need to consider genres as well. In my younger days I remember when a comoany had $10m budget it was considered AAA. That budget is a joke for an MMO. Definitely not AAA. Now if a studio only creates point and click adventures, $10m can result in an AAA product--almost.
CD Projekt invented a new definition: AAA+ which means not the product had the freaking budget, but also high value of production. So as wise @Kyleran said, nothing means anything in the gaming world
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"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
I have a hard time understanding why so many people object so much to gender locking.
Because I have no interest in playing female characters.
So play the other classes.
That's not a viable solution to the problem. If the devs can't be bothered to make 2 different genders for each class and race, then I can't be bothered to play the game.
As has been said many times throughout the thread, THERE IS NO GENDER LOCK. Read for Christ's sake.
I look forward to games where the devs pull three English words out of a hat to name a game.
Not to single you out, just a quick grab for example. Seen this comment subject come up in this thread a few times. Which got me thinking.
The writers over there are obsessed with the elements. TERA The Exiled Realm of Arborea (Earth, ground, Terra). and now A:IR... I suspect in the future, we will see FIRE, and WATER come eventually.
Don't joke like that because I want that all in one game, something like this.
Yeah but probably not something like this...
Plus all the crap browser games like Bleach, Naruto, etc I don't think there is a single good anime MMORPG.
I'm also with @MadFrenchie on WoW classic having a better chance of reigniting AAA MMORPGs.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
I have a hard time understanding why so many people object so much to gender locking.
Because I have no interest in playing female characters.
So play the other classes.
That's not a viable solution to the problem. If the devs can't be bothered to make 2 different genders for each class and race, then I can't be bothered to play the game.
As has been said many times throughout the thread, THERE IS NO GENDER LOCK. Read for Christ's sake.
But wait, will there be a gender "X" for each race and class? If not I'm not playing! ALL GAMES ARE GENDER LOCKED UNTILL THERE ARE 3 (wait 4?) GENDERS!
I have a hard time understanding why so many people object so much to gender locking.
Because I have no interest in playing female characters.
So play the other classes.
That's not a viable solution to the problem. If the devs can't be bothered to make 2 different genders for each class and race, then I can't be bothered to play the game.
As has been said many times throughout the thread, THERE IS NO GENDER LOCK. Read for Christ's sake.
I get that. I was responding to the suggestion regarding gender locked games in general.
Nope. I jumped out of the hype boat as soon as i noticed the gender lock. If they can't even have this basic thing in character management i don't wanna know the rest.
This game is what I would expect to see if you mixed GW2 with BDO. Looks ok but what is it with Korean games and gender lock classes?
I appreciate the huge boon it is to animation and how it can play into worldbuilding in terms of jobs or styles of fighting that would be better suited one way or the other. At least in BDO it made some sense in that way early on. Less so with the post-release classes.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
I dunno, TERA have moved to the direction of swarms of trashmobs you just easily kill with no effort and if this game is doing the same I will stay away.
I don't care about Gender lock if there is enough classes, but only 5 classes??? and since I will only play a male it means I am likely stuck with a Warrior and a Rogue as my options once again
as long as it doesn't have the clunky asian UI and horrible new times roman font asian games use so often it should be ok
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
I don't care about Gender lock if there is enough classes, but only 5 classes??? and since I will only play a male it means I am likely stuck with a Warrior and a Rogue as my options once again
I don't think it will reignite MMO development in the west. I don't think much of anything but the possibility of easy big money will reignite that including the "indie classic" resurgence or WoW retooling for a classic server. Western studios and pubs are chasing the easy money and that's pvp multiplayer online games as a service.
While true, online games as a service fits the old revenue model of the genre. It would certainly take a breakneck pace of quality content release, but if games are moving towards a service model, a subscription seems more likely to have a resurgence that could be leveraged well in a genre like MMORPGs, a genre that's always been about online, evolving content.
In fact, outside of video games, subscription models are becoming more and more popular. Amazon Prime, Netflix/Hulu, Dollar Shave Club, the list goes on and on. It seems quite the converse to video gaming, actually; pay-per-item services like Vudu don't seem nearly as popular compared to their subscription counterparts. Then again, there's no "My hammer's bigger and badder than yours" to be had in video streaming, so that's a likely driver of the difference in payment model preferences.
Comments
I hate to admit it, but pickings are slim these days in the large scale virtual world game market.
So regardless whatever "features" this game has or lacks that normally are a turn off for me, (action combat, cash shops, lollies etc) I'll probably give it a trial run anyways.
Unless of course when this game launches the genre is just "awash" in good MMORPGs to play.
Yeah, that isn't the way to bet, right?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If a game is made in Korea I'm guessing its a bit cheaper in terms of labor costs, does that knock it down to AA?
How about if there were gender locked classes, (I know there isn't here, I read the entire thread) does that knock it down a notch?
What about promotion? If BDO is AAA where was all of the advertising dollars spent, certainly not on any TV programs I watch (though I am watching a lot of Netflix these days.)
Heck, BDO never comes up in those annoying Google ads that are targeted to your previous searches, and I've actually searched for the game on it?
If it is the money for development and promotion how much has to be spent and where does it have to be spent to make it AAA.
Fact is, like so many other things in this genre, there's no official definition everyone will ever agree on.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Words are funny things, their definitions can be fuzzy, or sometimes totally different depending on the context or people's agreement on their usage.
For "you" and some subset of the gaming population budget is the only qualifier, even so, how much must be spent to be AAA?
I agree with your definition for the most part, but still have to ask, how much do they have to spend, and do we ever really know how much was spent to create a game?
Ashes team reportedly "plans" to spend $30M plus to make their game, are they AAA? SC has over $150M but I've seen disquaifiers because it's the studios first game, or it was crowdfunded.
Who knows, maybe BDO was created for $30M, if so, AAA still?
For some people, (not you of course) and I know this is a terrible thing to say, just being a Korean made game knocks it down from the AAA pedestal.
Others will discount it for having a predatory cash shop (if it does) or fails to provide PVE servers (no idea if it will) or who knows what reason.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But whatever... AAA is not meant to be a taxonomically accurate designation. Most of us know what it means when we use it to refer to a big budget games or studios... except for that one guy in every thread
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
To quote the article: "And while there has been some controversy over BDO’s monetization in the past" Well if there has been controversy in the past I assume there is now because no MMO to my knowledge has ever cancelled or scaled back any revenue method. They never take any notice of what players or for that matter the gaming media says.
So as sure as god didn't make little green loot boxes, we are going to see questionable cash shop practise in anything Bluehole Studios produce.
Let's not forget the clearly agreed upon definition of "sandbox style" game.
Besides, around these parts, AAA is the name of the auto club I'm a member of.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
It was indeed in the main article though which is where the speculation began:
"Now, there are two worries I have with the limited info we are privy too – it certainly seems like Bluehole hasn’t learned that gender locked classes are a bad thing in the West. Each of the five classes seems to be locked to male or female."
I understand this wasn't entirely written as a certainty, but indeed providing information that it appeared gender lock was indeed in the game. However, I guess none of this necessarily matters if it has been confirmed there is no gender lock.
I see lots of the COOL/glitter effect bu i did not see any good combat design ,all i saw was spamming combat with cool mechs and mini airships,cool is not enough to get me excited.
Sorry i just noticed last poster said the same thing as me,well guess it is pretty obvious then.
Blizzard,Arena.net on and on MOST including all from KR do not know how to create immersive combat nor grouping combat for that matter.
PUBG is NOT a name i would be throwing around to sell my product.
Anyhow,nothing any of us say matters until we see a working product,nice trailer to garner interest,nothing more.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
What if SWG had a $200m budget for advertisement? Could it still be around? How about CoH? What if instead of Destiny, EVE Online would've gotten a $500m investment?
Promotion budget makes a world of difference and helps the future of a potentially good game.
Also we need to consider genres as well. In my younger days I remember when a comoany had $10m budget it was considered AAA. That budget is a joke for an MMO. Definitely not AAA. Now if a studio only creates point and click adventures, $10m can result in an AAA product--almost.
CD Projekt invented a new definition: AAA+ which means not the product had the freaking budget, but also high value of production. So as wise @Kyleran said, nothing means anything in the gaming world
Plus all the crap browser games like Bleach, Naruto, etc I don't think there is a single good anime MMORPG.
I'm also with @MadFrenchie on WoW classic having a better chance of reigniting AAA MMORPGs.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/I appreciate the huge boon it is to animation and how it can play into worldbuilding in terms of jobs or styles of fighting that would be better suited one way or the other. At least in BDO it made some sense in that way early on. Less so with the post-release classes.
But I find it weird, at least to me it seems to be a PvP-focused MMO, wouldn't expect something as good PvE and story from Kakao.
In fact, outside of video games, subscription models are becoming more and more popular. Amazon Prime, Netflix/Hulu, Dollar Shave Club, the list goes on and on. It seems quite the converse to video gaming, actually; pay-per-item services like Vudu don't seem nearly as popular compared to their subscription counterparts. Then again, there's no "My hammer's bigger and badder than yours" to be had in video streaming, so that's a likely driver of the difference in payment model preferences.