My Pantheon Dream Come True...

Sid_Vicious · October 2017

some Vanguard cuteness (without cartoons or any holliday/reality theme nonsense) {don't laugh, I miss the gnomes and halfling giggles and dances, etc.} and crafting/harvesting/diplomacy just as intricate. The visions that I had for that game be somehow fulfilled in this one? Diplomacy unlocking special quests and faction, etc. in an old EQ style but unpredictable new in a way that cannot be googled (so rogue-like or frequently patched).

WARNING: THESE ARE DREAMS... EXPECT THIS AND BE DISAPPOINTED!?

Fun classes like the Bard... Bloodmage... etc.

No instances but functional on a semi-new computer at lowest settings and I'm fine with that (but will they be?)

FFA PVP server!! for sure!!! I played Vangaurds FFA PVP until it died religiously and kept the server active. We were not cruel, although some sensitive people out there that just cannot accept failure, /meh.

Please do something to fight for again.. Infamy and some chunk of change worked just fine... but if broken things could be fixed faster than a year or two (like a bug allowing some to 2-shot others, etc.) than that would be fine too but not required for me, I don't care... and will happily reroll or play the crappy class so long as you know our playstyle does exist. For the love of God please more risk for reward than anything. That game was plenty easy to recover from death but still held the original EQ feel somewhat more than EQ2 did.

I spent my time in that game being social while crafting... and looking for PVP on decked out nooby toons. If I am forced to play until the end and then earn the gear to PVP in GODlike mode, I definitely will not stay subbed for long, if at all. Sorry that I was never the biggest PVE fan of yours, but some okay times were had... was relaxing for short periods.

Yours truly,

huge EQ franchise fan (of the FFA PVP side)

Wizardry · October 2017

Don't care for any pvp at all,would rather see no time or money spent on it and all resources going into PVE.
We should realize that this is NOT a rich developer,we should also not expect a super amazing game,perhaps if supported over time it can become one but not out of the box.I also expect that there will be a time just like with VG when the money is too tight and the game needs to get released,it could be VG all over again but let's hope not.

I feel the way this game makes it is by not going too big out of the gate,size can be built over time.Instead make every square inch a solid world/game,make some great systems,diversity in mobs/gear and items,no simple tier stuff.There is no reason several level of mobs cannot exist in the same zone.

Myself i am worried since i heard rumblings of scaling,i will not play a scaling game no matter how good the rest of the game is,i hope this is not the case.

Sid_Vicious · October 2017

Wizardry said:

Don't care for any pvp at all,would rather see no time or money spent on it and all resources going into PVE.
We should realize that this is NOT a rich developer,we should also not expect a super amazing game,perhaps if supported over time it can become one but not out of the box.I also expect that there will be a time just like with VG when the money is too tight and the game needs to get released,it could be VG all over again but let's hope not.

I feel the way this game makes it is by not going too big out of the gate,size can be built over time.Instead make every square inch a solid world/game,make some great systems,diversity in mobs/gear and items,no simple tier stuff.There is no reason several level of mobs cannot exist in the same zone.

Myself i am worried since i heard rumblings of scaling,i will not play a scaling game no matter how good the rest of the game is,i hope this is not the case.

If you are going to tell me that a lot of resources were put into Vanguards PVP you are so mistaken... the only thing that was different was that you could kill other players with a score and bit of loot.... and later on a buff came out to help a twink cap at a certain level without leveing on accident (couldve done that for PVE, I guess?). They really left it considered broken to most PVPers but I still enjoyed it immensely. Sure they put some time into it... but give me a break it doesn't have to be perfectly balanced like its Guild Wars, just enough that its not completely broken and still enjoyable. Its the only way to attract our kind. I'm too old to be opening up a spell book in a game while I memorize it or whatever and then wait another ten minutes for some boss to spawn like the original. You have to be crazy to really think that would work today. Most of those people don't play games anymore or have died or something. Honestly don't think that there are many original EQ players still gaming, that will drop other things for this game (like their real lives).

Nightbringe1 · October 2017

Would prefer not to see any support for PvP.

Far too often, PvE content is altered/nerfed due to PvP complaints.

Kilsin · October 2017

Nightbringe1 said:

Would prefer not to see any support for PvP.

Far too often, PvE content is altered/nerfed due to PvP complaints.

PvP will be completely separate, we can make class/world changes on a PvP server without affecting the PvE classes/servers so it won;t be a problem.

So with that in mind, we plan on making a few really fun and challenging PvP servers with different rulesets depending on what the PvP community wants and we will start to ask for that feedback after we get into testing.

Nothing changes Pantheon from being a PvE game first and foremost though and we have been very clear about that from the start.

svann · October 2017

Vanilla eq was fine for its time, but relied way too much on autoattack.

Sid_Vicious · October 2017

THAT sounds wonderful! Love American Games and Genesis so much more than babies that kept following orders from their masters.

Theocritus · October 2017

DMKano said:

IMO Pantheon needs to be a lot closer to vanilla EQ1 than Vanguard to appeal to the current core backers.

Dont get me wrong I played VG for 2 years straight from launch but EQ1 vanilla was still a better designed game.

I hope Pantheon recaptures that EQ1 classic magic with sprinkles of vanguard and spoonfulls of all-new Pantheon stuff that no other games have.

That would ensure I play Pantheon for a very very long time. I played EQ1 for 7 years

Loved EQ1, played for years...BUT....Im just not sure in 2017 i want to go through something like that again......

kruler · October 2017

DMKano said:

Theocritus said:

DMKano said:

IMO Pantheon needs to be a lot closer to vanilla EQ1 than Vanguard to appeal to the current core backers.

Dont get me wrong I played VG for 2 years straight from launch but EQ1 vanilla was still a better designed game.

I hope Pantheon recaptures that EQ1 classic magic with sprinkles of vanguard and spoonfulls of all-new Pantheon stuff that no other games have.

That would ensure I play Pantheon for a very very long time. I played EQ1 for 7 years

Loved EQ1, played for years...BUT....Im just not sure in 2017 i want to go through something like that again......

Most wouldnt.

I could but I am an extreme minority.

Same here went back to EQ1 after a decade (rose tinted glasses mid life crisis THANG), and rolled a necro, I actually enjoyed myself a lot more than say my time playing BDO and even ESO, but yeah I'm an old fart so maybe its a demographic thing.

delete5230 · October 2017

Theocritus said:

DMKano said:

IMO Pantheon needs to be a lot closer to vanilla EQ1 than Vanguard to appeal to the current core backers.

Dont get me wrong I played VG for 2 years straight from launch but EQ1 vanilla was still a better designed game.

I hope Pantheon recaptures that EQ1 classic magic with sprinkles of vanguard and spoonfulls of all-new Pantheon stuff that no other games have.

That would ensure I play Pantheon for a very very long time. I played EQ1 for 7 years

Loved EQ1, played for years...BUT....Im just not sure in 2017 i want to go through something like that again......

Never played EQ1, I regrettably missed out, and sad.

BUT I would never play it now because it's a rough draft from first generation mmos. I'm sure Pantheon will be smooth.

It's like I'll quickly buy a new car but not the first one ever built. Even if the first one had a steering wheel and four tires.

Wizardry · October 2017

I don't think i mentioned it so i will now.

Pvp means classes have to be balanced and that is a bad thing for this genre.I want classes to have an identity and not be built for pvp,i want each class to be good/better at something and not streamlined so to not be op in pvp.

Example,imagine one class has invisible,how could you possibly have pvp like that?Start removing some of the spells/abilities from players,no that is FAKE then.

One thing that really bothered me about EQ/VG games is the way they did aggro and leashed all mobs together,i do not think i can fathom that terrible looking design again,so i hope they give each mob it's own identity and aggro systems.Similar to what i did not like in say SWTOR for example,i also don't want to see clusters,like 3 or 6 mobs always clustered together,mobs should be free roaming,look like they are really living in a world.

What i did like is when i saw mobs fighting each other,that looks realistic,wish i would see more depth there and an eco system.There are a lot of little things i look at in these game designs,i really need to see that ideas make sense,which is what Brad was trying to convey to us.

cheyane · October 2017

Kilsin said:

Nightbringe1 said:

Would prefer not to see any support for PvP.

Far too often, PvE content is altered/nerfed due to PvP complaints.

PvP will be completely separate, we can make class/world changes on a PvP server without affecting the PvE classes/servers so it won;t be a problem.

So with that in mind, we plan on making a few really fun and challenging PvP servers with different rulesets depending on what the PvP community wants and we will start to ask for that feedback after we get into testing.

Nothing changes Pantheon from being a PvE game first and foremost though and we have been very clear about that from the start.

Love the last line so very happy.

Dullahan · October 2017

Wizardry said:

I don't think i mentioned it so i will now.

Pvp means classes have to be balanced and that is a bad thing for this genre.I want classes to have an identity and not be built for pvp,i want each class to be good/better at something and not streamlined so to not be op in pvp.

There is actually no need for 1v1 class balance in a game that is multiplayer, especially one that's massively multiplayer. It's not Street Fighter. A player that is playing a squishy cloth wearing class that heals should have no expectation of defeating a melee dps class. You may argue that such a class be given enough survivability to mitigate damage and escape, but not that they pose a serious threat. The suggestion that rogues or wizards have the ability to heal themselves and others should be disregarded for the same reason.

Some classes will specialize in killing, while others specialize in keeping others alive or bringing them back from the dead. Some may be a mix of both, but mmorpg PvP should never be about making every class capable of killing, because it will inevitably dilute class roles and harm class interdependence.

It's understandable to require this in a game with cross-class arenas, but in general, it's completely unnecessary and a waste of time.

Adamantine · October 2017

Well, I expect PvP to suck, i.e. being very inbalanced, in Pantheon, since like EQ and Vanguard it wasnt designed for PvP. But it probably will make a return - it sucked in Vanguard, too, didnt it ? But still people played on PvP servers.

I would figure that PvP will give you part of the money of the loser as reward, in Vanguard it was 10%, as well as the xp they lost. And theres probably a scaling mechanism to make sure you quickly get a lot less for killing players below your own level. And you should be able to store your money in cities so whatever you lose shouldnt be all your money. In Vanguard we had cases when highlevel players that never had played on PvP servers tried the new PvP arena and lost enormous amounts of money this way.

MadCoderOne · October 2017

no PVP please

ketzerei84 · October 2017

Kilsin said:

PvP will be completely separate, we can make class/world changes on a PvP server without affecting the PvE classes/servers so it won;t be a problem.

So with that in mind, we plan on making a few really fun and challenging PvP servers with different rulesets depending on what the PvP community wants and we will start to ask for that feedback after we get into testing.

Nothing changes Pantheon from being a PvE game first and foremost though and we have been very clear about that from the start.

What about tome of discord/order on pve servers? allowing people to 'go red' (and back/) a la eq1. Or /guildwar from eq1 for those of us who still remember killing those mfers c***blocking our progression target? ;p

Wedlen · October 2017

I agree with most here. Nevermind PvP. Concentrate on PvE. Im really excited about this game. I wish I never heard about it though until it was ready to be released.

Dvora · October 2017

Wizardry said:

I don't think i mentioned it so i will now.

Pvp means classes have to be balanced and that is a bad thing for this genre.I want classes to have an identity and not be built for pvp,i want each class to be good/better at something and not streamlined so to not be op in pvp.

Example,imagine one class has invisible,how could you possibly have pvp like that?Start removing some of the spells/abilities from players,no that is FAKE then.

One thing that really bothered me about EQ/VG games is the way they did aggro and leashed all mobs together,i do not think i can fathom that terrible looking design again,so i hope they give each mob it's own identity and aggro systems.Similar to what i did not like in say SWTOR for example,i also don't want to see clusters,like 3 or 6 mobs always clustered together,mobs should be free roaming,look like they are really living in a world.

What i did like is when i saw mobs fighting each other,that looks realistic,wish i would see more depth there and an eco system.There are a lot of little things i look at in these game designs,i really need to see that ideas make sense,which is what Brad was trying to convey to us.

Nah plenty of pvp games had classes with full stealth, and they were totally viable in pve also. Sometimes those toons were op, sometimes not. Those games don't have to be balanced *just for pvp*, and in fact should not be. Balance doesn't have to be at the class level. Players can balance themselves by group composition.

If you are a healer or buffer/cc with not much dps, you have some different advantages and shortcomings. Stealthers dont have heals. If these things are a problem for you, join others that complement your weakness. Don't expect a pvp mmo to be a solo game. Some people like the solo pvp niche and they will find classes that work for that if they like a challenge... fine!

Just noticed that Dullahan said prettymuch the same thing, and probably better, so ya, and what he said.

svann · October 2017

ketzerei84 said:

Kilsin said:

PvP will be completely separate, we can make class/world changes on a PvP server without affecting the PvE classes/servers so it won;t be a problem.

So with that in mind, we plan on making a few really fun and challenging PvP servers with different rulesets depending on what the PvP community wants and we will start to ask for that feedback after we get into testing.

Nothing changes Pantheon from being a PvE game first and foremost though and we have been very clear about that from the start.

What about tome of discord/order on pve servers? allowing people to 'go red' (and back/) a la eq1. Or /guildwar from eq1 for those of us who still remember killing those mfers c***blocking our progression target? ;p

Going red was literally a joke. People that went red could no longer get buffs from non-red, so could not group. Every once in a while someone would ask how to get rid of it because they hadnt understood the conseqences. Now I dont think turning in the book to the priest will even work anymore. They took it out it was so bad.

Guildwars in eq1 never worked.

Thebeasttt · November 2017

You have to have some very low standards to play Vanguard for more than a week. Classic EQ is how they'll succeed.

shassell · November 2017

"Myself i am worried since i heard rumblings of scaling,i will not play a scaling game no matter how good the rest of the game is,i hope this is not the case." -Wizadry.

Any scaling and I for one would not even bother taking a look. Played ESO for a long time until they introduced scaling. Kills any sense of progression, makes the world feel completely contrived, sucks the life out of exploration - It just makes the whole game pointless.

Xthos · November 2017

Well, it is good to see that they can do changes for the pvp servers, and not have them affect the pve servers. Vanguard had bad problems with this, the biggest I remember was the instant cast druid I think it was that would wreck people on pvp.

I am not sure what I want to play. I started in faction pvp in VG, but it all got combined (and eventually done away with) to open pvp. I personally like faction, and I missed the pvp option in VG so much, I was pretty much done with the game when it got forgotten for updates....but some of the games I have been playing the pvp design has really been ruining the games, and with pve as a afterthought, the games are very shallow over all.

Sid_Vicious · November 2017

Xthos said:

Well, it is good to see that they can do changes for the pvp servers, and not have them affect the pve servers. Vanguard had bad problems with this, the biggest I remember was the instant cast druid I think it was that would wreck people on pvp.

I am not sure what I want to play. I started in faction pvp in VG, but it all got combined (and eventually done away with) to open pvp. I personally like faction, and I missed the pvp option in VG so much, I was pretty much done with the game when it got forgotten for updates....but some of the games I have been playing the pvp design has really been ruining the games, and with pve as a afterthought, the games are very shallow over all.

Yeah... starfall was ridiculous. Broken for over a year! Almost 2 years perhaps? Not sure but yeah that was pretty disappointing to EVERYONE because we kept waiting for it to be changed. The fix eventually made my level 8 cleric God-like though because level 50s could no longer kill him without taking a couple minutes trying (couldn't do more than 80% of a persons total health damage or some such?). Hopefully the bugs are easier to fix in this game than they were in VG, but that game was still enjoyable even with a class that was horrible in PVP I thought..

Kulharin · November 2017

How do I post a new thread? I'd like to talk about collision detection with NPC' and other players.

Wizardry · November 2017

Go to forums then mmorpgs and start new discussion

Kulharin · November 2017

I must be blind? I do not see anywhere a "start new discussion" on the forums.

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