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Challenging PVE MMO?
I've played a LOT of MMO's, starting in EQ1 in 1999 to ESO currently. But something that has been bothering me lately, is the lack of any real challenge while playing. Looking for an MMO where every single fight I get into with an even leveled mob is challenging.
Way back when in EQ1, from level 1 to level 50 (and beyond with x-packs) each and every fight was a challenge if I was soloing. If i pulled 1 mob, it was dicey at times, 2 mobs and I had to pull some CC and strings, 3 mobs and I had to run.
I want a game like this again. One where I don't feel like a god 24/7 taking on 4-10 mobs at time while falling asleep.
Comments
I'm with you. Unfortunately, I don't think the majority want this. The new generation of gamers like easy mode. They want to take on multiple mobs and feel like heroes. There are always a lot of complaints coming from the masses if games are made too challenging.
Wildstar did this, and people did nothing but bitch about how hard the game was. I did the attunement that everyone loves to complain about in about 3 days. Compare that with Black Temple attunement, which took clearing both SSC and Tk just to step foot inside of the instance. 3 days was too much for people...If you couldn't kill world bosses or get SILVER in dungeons, you didn't deserve to step foot inside of the raids.
Hard games don't make money because casuals won't play them and people who think they're "hardcore" are truly carebear on the inside.
ESO Veteran ranks used to be extremely difficult with a templar/nightblade (less-so with the permastun Sorc and durable Dragon Knight) - I actually leveled to VR10 twice in the first few weeks because my templar felt so incredibly weak by comparison to my Sorc.
Likewise, playing a rogue or warrior in classic WoW would leave you near-dead if you pulled two mobs; resorting to a fear bomb would only delay your death.
SWTOR was - and may still be - fairly challenging. I remember having to play fairly well to get through relevant story missions, though I may have been underleveled as I did them. The game was fair-challenging, though.
Coming back to WoW, TERA, Rift, GW2 - everything - it's all been toned back; you're unlikely to ever fail unless you're purposefully impatient.
Come to think of it, while leveling in Archeage, pulling 2-3 mobs can be deadly, but the way mobs aggro this is never likely to happen.
Trouble is when games are streamlined and easy, they quickly become boring - which encompasses the vast majority of games today.
Anyway, check out Project Gorgon. The game can be grindy/easy, but only if you want it to be. There's a hardcore death option where your gear will break if you die, so there's that if you want to add an extra element to death. A lot of the content is challenging solo provided you go to the right areas and don't grind pigs - don't let the poor graphics dissuade you, though; there's definitely a good game there. Trouble is it's in development - and while there's no planned character wipes, you can burn through most of the important content in a couple months.
If you enjoyed EQ you might wanna tryout their ragefire or the new lockjaw server. It's at classic stage now, started a few weeks ago. No mercs, only murphys law of eq. However exp is increased from what it used to be back in 1999.
You really have to look at old games cause new ones are much more easy and if you don't like that you might be dissapointed with any game you try from 2004 and newer. I've tried them all. Well there might be some like eso or lotro but they have nowhere near the challenge as EQ.
Look out for "Pantheon-Rise of the Fallen,, i know I am.
Might be every oldschool gamer's savior
I think we can only go back to EQ and its clones (P99, etc) so many times...At this point the graphics are so dated that it just feels awful...I loved the game in its heyday but I think its time to move on.
So what I'm hearing is there isn't an option for challenging content that is currently playable. EQ1 has been toned back so much that it's no longer challenging to take on multiple mobs at a time. Wildstar, WOW, etc the same.
I want to play p99, but every time I boot the game up, my computer flipps out and shuts the program down. Have reinstalled it like 3 times, not sure what is going on with that. Very high end machine, so I don't think that's the issue.
Games like that don't exist anymore, now you get 5% of the game hard (usually raids and maybe a few endgame dungeons).
I don't think it is too much to ask for to have a "hard" setting server (with a bit better droprate of goodies to reward players). It is not hard to add and it wont destroy the game for casuals, just make the game more fun for us that want a harder challenge.
On top of my list would be a GW2 server set with the difficulty it had at the first beta weekend, I don't care if I get locked out of the mega servers at all.
It's up to you. Start a new mmorpg you like and play in zones not designated for your level.
Go play a few single player RPGs like Dark Souls or for something really irritating try Darkest Dungeon.
Switch over to another genre that is closely related to this one and play some survival games like The Forest or ARK.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I self identify as a monkey.
It's pretty pathetic when I have to gimp myself just to get anything remotely like a challenge in my game. Not going to do that. I'd rather just quit the genre than gimp myself just to get the gameplay I should be afforded anyways.
What I don't get is why companies think the game has to be 100% either way. I mean there is a difference between 0 challenge and every mundane mob feeling like a boss. The difficulty curve should be gradual. Its very easy in some areas and at the beginning and its incredibly difficult in other areas and toward end game. There should be no reason you couldn't have a zone for levels 20-30 for instance that were easy and rewarded green level items and a different zone that were harder and rewarded blues. This would allow the solo carebears to enjoy their part and the hardcores to enjoy theirs.
This is what Wildstar needed to understand but they didnt.
I loved the difficulty level of Wildstar, I just hated the uber-linear world
The OP was asking more about solo stuff, like leveling and such. And while WS may have a somewhat dificult group PvE content (interrupt fest ftw) when it comes to leveling or solo play it's like the rest. Which means that unless you're mentally challenged you'll steamroll from 1 to the level cap without any issues. I do not remember dying once while leveling my warrior or my stalker.
SW TOR offers more challenge than WS with it's heroic quests and solo flashpoints. Soloing the 3man heroic quests is a challenge and forces you to learn to utilize your class properly.
Hey. I know the feeling. I've been searching hard for a good mmo (or something similar such as a diablo style with multiplayer possibility) with a challenging pve on the whole where leveling is relatively slower (as was typical in the past) plus the mmo has to have at least fairly deep customization for level progression (ex. big skill trees, cross skill/class group picking or something similar). These are the two things that to me have to be there at minimum to make an mmo fun for me. The rest of the usual items for -my- mmo (ex. graphics, story/plot, pve capability, character appearance, combat mechanics, etc) of course should be somewhat decent at least even if one or more of such is not that great (I’m at a point now where I can live with certain weak points among such remaining items and still have fun overall).
Anyways, here's a list of games that meets my two important criteria. Check them out and feel free to comment back. I hope this helps!
Champions Online
DDO
Age of Conan
Path of Exile
Allods
RaiderZ
Tree of Savior
Ryzum
Getamped2 (actually a fighting mmo but it looks appealing nonetheless)
Everquest
Everquest project 1999
Ones still in development but to keep watching for till released
Project Gorgon
PantheonEdit
Oh. I forgot one more...Dragon Nest fits in pretty well too and can have challenging fights at least at certain points in the game
Sorry OP there isn't much out there for us. Most of the people in this thread are missing the challenge = tactics point.
Edit: I did find some fun in SWTOR and soloing flashpoints. I had to plan out the steps and moves/CC before entering that was fun.
Double edit: Just saw the age of this thread. But the topic is still important and should be kept alive.
You can also wear your starting gear for the entire game, but that wont make you popular in dungeons. And finding a group when you are seriously underleveled isn't easy either.
There will be some challenging mobs in almost any MMO and you can pull many mobs at you so you can make things harder for you but that doesn't really makes the games harder as such.
I do play GW2 and sure, taking down a max leveled boss alone is fun but the problem is that it takes pretty long time (it takes me about 6-7 minutes to take down a hero challenge boss solo and that is with zero misstake). The problem with that is that at least I enjoy playing with other players and only soloing takes away my reason to play a MMO, I might as well play a single player game that allows me to set the difficulty right myself.
There are certainly hard parts in many MMOs, raiding us usually tough but the general difficulty of the games out there is easy, often mind numbing so. The trash mobs are way more trashier today if you get my point, in most game you can at max level still easily kill them while still wearing the starting gear and you couldn't do that in the early MMOs, or at least I never been that good.
I don't think OP meant "are there any small hard parts in modern MMOs"? 90% of the average MMO today is really easy besides PvP. In GW2s case I wish they could add hardmode zones like the original game had, not just some dungeons but the entire zones (you also at least in the beginning got really good loot but it was actually really hard. Sadly now it is so nerfed that it feels about the same in difficulty as the normal zones felt at launch).
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Everquest, Daoc, still abit challenging in pve but alot of players multibox in games that are hard anyway.
Many, many mmorpg's are made easier because alot of player made an exit poll when they quit a game, like WoW, a demand for faster leveling. Alot of people on this forum don't represent the whole mmorpg playerbase, right now they might be busy leveling up thru instances geared with full heirlooms and busy kicking noob players.
The age of mmorpg is coming to a close, the world will fall and Pantheon Rise of the fallen will be the dawn of a new age for you