So, Where Are YOU on Net Neutrality?

YashaX · November 2017

Renoaku said:

I strongly believe internet should remain free, I was just talking IRL to random people and we were discussing news, politics, and war, or better said taxes and the average people paying over 3,000 USD a year just in taxes paying 3 different taxes, including School Taxes even if you don't have children, or make any modifications to your property how the tax is insane such as putting in a new DriveWay as an American you have to pay for all this.

Sure here in America generally speaking it's better more civilized, but we are still slaves to the system Net Neutrality is just another step to total anarchy, new world order as right now Americans where they realise it or not at least IMO we're all slaves to the system, and you either pay your Tax, spend Extra Money for entertainment assuming you can afford it, you end up on the streets, and if lucky you get to apply for housing, and food stamp while you are Forced into going to a work force trying to find a job assuming the worst of worst happens to someone.

The internet needs to remain a free place the way it is today free information, freedom to watch Netflix, or other services without having to pay ISP's or Government additional fees, imagine trying to login to World OF Warcraft, or your favorite game one day and it tells you that you have to pay your ISP $5 to access World OF Warcraft, in addition to your subscription fee, sure a lot of people would likely just do it again giving into the so called American Dream which I believe is all a big joke, but $5 a month while this isn't a lot whhen its just one person imagine if every World OF Warcraft player here in the U.S had to pay $5 a month to access the game.

Totally Insane, and it's just such a disgrace in my eyes to see things like Net Neutrality...

And this isn't the worst of it, over 8 Million Americans could be out of jobs by 2030 due to Robotics, and Computer Advancement it's already been happening for quite some time now, and I love technology, but then where 8 million people have a hard time finding work it's a big issue.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42170100

Net neutrality seems to be basically the opposite of what you think it is (going by your post). It means keeping the internet free so you don't have to pay your ISP extra money to access WoW (using your example). That is why a lot of people are upset that the US government is trying to abolish net neutrality.

Scot · December 2017

Renoaku said:

I strongly believe internet should remain free, I was just talking IRL to random people and we were discussing news, politics, and war, or better said taxes and the average people paying over 3,000 USD a year just in taxes paying 3 different taxes, including School Taxes even if you don't have children, or make any modifications to your property how the tax is insane such as putting in a new DriveWay as an American you have to pay for all this.

Sure here in America generally speaking it's better more civilized, but we are still slaves to the system Net Neutrality is just another step to total anarchy, new world order as right now Americans where they realise it or not at least IMO we're all slaves to the system, and you either pay your Tax, spend Extra Money for entertainment assuming you can afford it, you end up on the streets, and if lucky you get to apply for housing, and food stamp while you are Forced into going to a work force trying to find a job assuming the worst of worst happens to someone.

The internet needs to remain a free place the way it is today free information, freedom to watch Netflix, or other services without having to pay ISP's or Government additional fees, imagine trying to login to World OF Warcraft, or your favorite game one day and it tells you that you have to pay your ISP $5 to access World OF Warcraft, in addition to your subscription fee, sure a lot of people would likely just do it again giving into the so called American Dream which I believe is all a big joke, but $5 a month while this isn't a lot whhen its just one person imagine if every World OF Warcraft player here in the U.S had to pay $5 a month to access the game.

Totally Insane, and it's just such a disgrace in my eyes to see things like Net Neutrality...

And this isn't the worst of it, over 8 Million Americans could be out of jobs by 2030 due to Robotics, and Computer Advancement it's already been happening for quite some time now, and I love technology, but then where 8 million people have a hard time finding work it's a big issue.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42170100

That's what you get for talking to random people, try to find informed sources. And take care they are seeking to inform, not affirm your views.

I will just mention the robotics issue, technology replacing the need for workers in a given area has happened since we invented the wheel. It is true that robotics will pose a larger challenge to society than most innovations. But every time this has happened in the past societies have readjusted. Our societies survived and indeed thrived due to an industrial revolution, the robotics revelation will be much the same.

Coated · December 2017

Where do I stand? I'm already making plans to move to New Zealand. House goes up for sale next year.

ChildoftheShadows · December 2017

For those complaining there are too many bias opinions.. nothing in this quote is bias. They are all facts, real events that occurred and will occur again and likely be worse once net neutrality is reversed.

Like watching YouTube? Pay your internet provider more money so you can watch over 720p. Or even watch it at all. Like Netflix? Pay your internet provider extra for the Netflix package. Most people don't have more than one option for internet providers. There is nothing good that can come from the reversal of net neutrality.

frostymug said:

Short answer...

ChildoftheShadows · December 2017

Renoaku said: hi

I strongly believe internet should remain free, I was just talking IRL to random people and we were discussing news, politics, and war, or better said taxes and the average people paying over 3,000 USD a year just in taxes paying 3 different taxes, including School Taxes even if you don't have children, or make any modifications to your property how the tax is insane such as putting in a new DriveWay as an American you have to pay for all this.

Sure here in America generally speaking it's better more civilized, but we are still slaves to the system Net Neutrality is just another step to total anarchy, new world order as right now Americans where they realise it or not at least IMO we're all slaves to the system, and you either pay your Tax, spend Extra Money for entertainment assuming you can afford it, you end up on the streets, and if lucky you get to apply for housing, and food stamp while you are Forced into going to a work force trying to find a job assuming the worst of worst happens to someone.

The internet needs to remain a free place the way it is today free information, freedom to watch Netflix, or other services without having to pay ISP's or Government additional fees, imagine trying to login to World OF Warcraft, or your favorite game one day and it tells you that you have to pay your ISP $5 to access World OF Warcraft, in addition to your subscription fee, sure a lot of people would likely just do it again giving into the so called American Dream which I believe is all a big joke, but $5 a month while this isn't a lot whhen its just one person imagine if every World OF Warcraft player here in the U.S had to pay $5 a month to access the game.

Totally Insane, and it's just such a disgrace in my eyes to see things like Net Neutrality...

And this isn't the worst of it, over 8 Million Americans could be out of jobs by 2030 due to Robotics, and Computer Advancement it's already been happening for quite some time now, and I love technology, but then where 8 million people have a hard time finding work it's a big issue.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42170100

Woooooow my friend. If you want the internet to "remain" free then you absolutely want net neutrality. It is a regulation that prevents ISPs from doing what you fear.

In fact you mention "remain free like it is today", today we HAVE net neutrality and the FCC is going to take it away. Once they do then you'll have to pay to your provider to play World of Warcraft like you fear.

Cleffy · December 2017

Actually it would be freer for the ISPs to remain title 1 companies. Although the ISPs seem to have a lot of power, they are limited in their ability to abuse it by other means. There is no stopping an abuse of power by the US government without a revolt. By the FCC taking less authority over the net they are letting the private sector and citizen retain more power. Equality does not equal freedom.
That said, there is a quite a bit of fear mongering on the subject that is quite odd if you don't understand the infrastructure of the internet. It would be freakishly slow for an ISP to examine every single packet that comes through their network and deny access depending on who it is going to. What makes the internet run optimally is the simple structure of routing a packet in a timely manner. How they throttle a service like peer to peer sharing is by throttling a specific port universally across their network. This port was typically shared with game networks so they were also throttled. This check could be executed in a single line of code. Checking where a packet is coming from and who it is going to is a much more complicated check.
Doing such a check would also violate licensing contracts with regional ISP providers like Cogent and Level 3. It may also violate FTC rules.

rojoArcueid · December 2017

Horusra said:

For me has less to to with political bias and more to do with economic belief. I believe free market capitalism is the driver of innovation. When someone can make some cash people will compete for it. Net Neutrality removes that drive. While without there is, I hope, a desire for companies to provide new and better service than someone else to get your money.

That would happen in a perfect world. In reality, without regulation, companies will hinder internet speed/access to charge more money for unhindered "premium" service.

FlyByKnight · December 2017

Cleffy said:

Actually it would be freer for the ISPs to remain title 1 companies. Although the ISPs seem to have a lot of power, they are limited in their ability to abuse it by other means. There is no stopping an abuse of power by the US government without a revolt. By the FCC taking less authority over the net they are letting the private sector and citizen retain more power. Equality does not equal freedom.
That said, there is a quite a bit of fear mongering on the subject that is quite odd if you don't understand the infrastructure of the internet. It would be freakishly slow for an ISP to examine every single packet that comes through their network and deny access depending on who it is going to. What makes the internet run optimally is the simple structure of routing a packet in a timely manner. How they throttle a service like peer to peer sharing is by throttling a specific port universally across their network. This port was typically shared with game networks so they were also throttled. This check could be executed in a single line of code. Checking where a packet is coming from and who it is going to is a much more complicated check.
Doing such a check would also violate licensing contracts with regional ISP providers like Cogent and Level 3. It may also violate FTC rules.

Not understanding how you can call it "fear mongering" when the ISPs have literally throttled Netflix and other services and literally had them cut a "deal" to fix the problem they created.

Please explain how citizens "retain" power by giving ISPs more ceiling to artificially bend the flow of 0's and 1's.

Regardless if you agree or not, the majority of citizens don't want Net Neutrality to to go anywhere yet an appointed official is attempting to do the complete opposite. That's where the abuse of power is happening. The chairman of the FCC is a former fucking attorney for Verizon.

Don't you dare lump "private sector" and "citizen" into one bucket my friend. They are NOT the same. I'm not clear on what equality vs freedom even has to do with the conversation either. Care to expound?

YashaX · December 2017

FlyByKnight said:

Cleffy said:

Actually it would be freer for the ISPs to remain title 1 companies. Although the ISPs seem to have a lot of power, they are limited in their ability to abuse it by other means. There is no stopping an abuse of power by the US government without a revolt. By the FCC taking less authority over the net they are letting the private sector and citizen retain more power. Equality does not equal freedom.
That said, there is a quite a bit of fear mongering on the subject that is quite odd if you don't understand the infrastructure of the internet. It would be freakishly slow for an ISP to examine every single packet that comes through their network and deny access depending on who it is going to. What makes the internet run optimally is the simple structure of routing a packet in a timely manner. How they throttle a service like peer to peer sharing is by throttling a specific port universally across their network. This port was typically shared with game networks so they were also throttled. This check could be executed in a single line of code. Checking where a packet is coming from and who it is going to is a much more complicated check.
Doing such a check would also violate licensing contracts with regional ISP providers like Cogent and Level 3. It may also violate FTC rules.

Don't you dare lump "private sector" and "citizen" into one bucket my friend. They are NOT the same. I'm not clear on what equality vs freedom even has to do with the conversation either. Care to expound?

I notice that some Americans sadly don't seem to realize that in a democracy at least, the government represents the citizens of a country, while a listed company is obligated to work in the best interest of the company/shareholders, not of citizens (unless forced to by some kind of government regulation).

FlyByKnight · December 2017

YashaX said:

FlyByKnight said:

Cleffy said:

Actually it would be freer for the ISPs to remain title 1 companies. Although the ISPs seem to have a lot of power, they are limited in their ability to abuse it by other means. There is no stopping an abuse of power by the US government without a revolt. By the FCC taking less authority over the net they are letting the private sector and citizen retain more power. Equality does not equal freedom.
That said, there is a quite a bit of fear mongering on the subject that is quite odd if you don't understand the infrastructure of the internet. It would be freakishly slow for an ISP to examine every single packet that comes through their network and deny access depending on who it is going to. What makes the internet run optimally is the simple structure of routing a packet in a timely manner. How they throttle a service like peer to peer sharing is by throttling a specific port universally across their network. This port was typically shared with game networks so they were also throttled. This check could be executed in a single line of code. Checking where a packet is coming from and who it is going to is a much more complicated check.
Doing such a check would also violate licensing contracts with regional ISP providers like Cogent and Level 3. It may also violate FTC rules.

Don't you dare lump "private sector" and "citizen" into one bucket my friend. They are NOT the same. I'm not clear on what equality vs freedom even has to do with the conversation either. Care to expound?

I notice that some Americans sadly don't seem to realize that in a democracy at least, the government represents the citizens of a country, while a listed company is obligated to work in the best interest of the company/shareholders, not of citizens (unless forced to by some kind of government regulation).

I call them "Freedumb Fighters".

Cleffy · December 2017

I don't think you understand how they throttle Netflix. The fear is that an ISP will make service packs the customer has to subscribe to. Without putting the service directly on their network, there is no efficient way to do this. They would be taking every packet, see who its from, see who it goes to, reference a database of the customer is subscribed, then send the packet. Verse see who its from and potentially delay the send from the head-end. Referencing a database takes a lot of time and computational power when doing it on every packet. It would overload there systems or at a minimum increase pings 10 fold.
Free markets are a way to democratize everything. Your money is your vote. A company is like a politician who is constantly campaigning. It must please the customer to be in business. It is also run by people. Either the owner is a person or the corporation is a group of people. Just because you start a business doesn't make you any less of a person.
When you disconnect a company from the customer by monopoly as would be the case in making it a utility, then you always decrease the service. Most of the countries with fast internet connections do not have net neutrality rules and do not enforce ISP monopolies. Some like Japan have no regulatory body for internet services.
The FCC is also not democratically elected. They are placed in their position. Our representatives are, and can make a law enforcing net neutrality superceding the FCC. It would probably be the most efficient method for creating Net Neutrality rules without decresing the regulatory freedom of the internet.

ScotchUp · December 2017

Makes me laugh after 8 years of Obama, any law no matter what it is called can't be trusted when Government is telling us how great it will be for America. Keep Government out of internet!

Kyleran · December 2017

YashaX said:

FlyByKnight said:

Cleffy said:

Actually it would be freer for the ISPs to remain title 1 companies. Although the ISPs seem to have a lot of power, they are limited in their ability to abuse it by other means. There is no stopping an abuse of power by the US government without a revolt. By the FCC taking less authority over the net they are letting the private sector and citizen retain more power. Equality does not equal freedom.
That said, there is a quite a bit of fear mongering on the subject that is quite odd if you don't understand the infrastructure of the internet. It would be freakishly slow for an ISP to examine every single packet that comes through their network and deny access depending on who it is going to. What makes the internet run optimally is the simple structure of routing a packet in a timely manner. How they throttle a service like peer to peer sharing is by throttling a specific port universally across their network. This port was typically shared with game networks so they were also throttled. This check could be executed in a single line of code. Checking where a packet is coming from and who it is going to is a much more complicated check.
Doing such a check would also violate licensing contracts with regional ISP providers like Cogent and Level 3. It may also violate FTC rules.

Don't you dare lump "private sector" and "citizen" into one bucket my friend. They are NOT the same. I'm not clear on what equality vs freedom even has to do with the conversation either. Care to expound?

I notice that some Americans sadly don't seem to realize that in a democracy at least, the government represents the citizens of a country, while a listed company is obligated to work in the best interest of the company/shareholders, not of citizens (unless forced to by some kind of government regulation).

You also realize that in many cases the employees of a listed company are citizens and their livelihoods depend on the success of said firm.

Also many citizens are stockholders of companies including "evil" ISP firms.

A balance needs to be struck and maintained to provide sufficient benefit to all concerned.

ConstantineMerus · December 2017

Kyleran said:

YashaX said:

FlyByKnight said:

Cleffy said:

Actually it would be freer for the ISPs to remain title 1 companies. Although the ISPs seem to have a lot of power, they are limited in their ability to abuse it by other means. There is no stopping an abuse of power by the US government without a revolt. By the FCC taking less authority over the net they are letting the private sector and citizen retain more power. Equality does not equal freedom.
That said, there is a quite a bit of fear mongering on the subject that is quite odd if you don't understand the infrastructure of the internet. It would be freakishly slow for an ISP to examine every single packet that comes through their network and deny access depending on who it is going to. What makes the internet run optimally is the simple structure of routing a packet in a timely manner. How they throttle a service like peer to peer sharing is by throttling a specific port universally across their network. This port was typically shared with game networks so they were also throttled. This check could be executed in a single line of code. Checking where a packet is coming from and who it is going to is a much more complicated check.
Doing such a check would also violate licensing contracts with regional ISP providers like Cogent and Level 3. It may also violate FTC rules.

Don't you dare lump "private sector" and "citizen" into one bucket my friend. They are NOT the same. I'm not clear on what equality vs freedom even has to do with the conversation either. Care to expound?

I notice that some Americans sadly don't seem to realize that in a democracy at least, the government represents the citizens of a country, while a listed company is obligated to work in the best interest of the company/shareholders, not of citizens (unless forced to by some kind of government regulation).

You also realize that in many cases the employees of a listed company are citizens and their livelihoods depend on the success of said firm.

Also many citizens are stockholders of companies including "evil" ISP firms.

A balance needs to be struck and maintained to provide sufficient benefit to all concerned.

I think he meant the common or the public or the nation vs a group, not a matter of citizenship.

This is about benefits of one industry against everything and everyone else.

I might be wrong here, I'm not American. But hey, I love you guys /wave

ChildoftheShadows · December 2017

Cleffy said: hi

I don't think you understand how they throttle Netflix. The fear is that an ISP will make service packs the customer has to subscribe to. Without putting the service directly on their network, there is no efficient way to do this. They would be taking every packet, see who its from, see who it goes to, reference a database of the customer is subscribed, then send the packet. Verse see who its from and potentially delay the send from the head-end. Referencing a database takes a lot of time and computational power when doing it on every packet. It would overload there systems or at a minimum increase pings 10 fold.
Free markets are a way to democratize everything. Your money is your vote. A company is like a politician who is constantly campaigning. It must please the customer to be in business. It is also run by people. Either the owner is a person or the corporation is a group of people. Just because you start a business doesn't make you any less of a person.
When you disconnect a company from the customer by monopoly as would be the case in making it a utility, then you always decrease the service. Most of the countries with fast internet connections do not have net neutrality rules and do not enforce ISP monopolies. Some like Japan have no regulatory body for internet services.
The FCC is also not democratically elected. They are placed in their position. Our representatives are, and can make a law enforcing net neutrality superceding the FCC. It would probably be the most efficient method for creating Net Neutrality rules without decresing the regulatory freedom of the internet.

If I only have one real option for internet access then my money doesn't have a vote, as is the case for a vast majority of people. When it comes to limiting what you can watch Verizon has been doing it with YouTube videos for a bit now, restricting you to 720p unless you pay for a bigger package l. Read up.

ScotchUp · December 2017

I will keep my opinions to myself, I see people are allowed to attack when they disagree. Sad people are spreading fake info about this net stuff.

Maybe one day actual debate will return to fairness!

FlyByKnight · December 2017

ScotchUp said:

I will keep my opinions to myself, I see people are allowed to attack when they disagree. Sad people are spreading fake info about this net stuff.

Maybe one day actual debate will return to fairness!

I apologize, you totally type like you could be the guy in the picture. I couldn't resist.

I even read it in the Dave Chappelle/Clayton Bigsby voice and it falls perfectly together.

"Sir my message is simple..."

Ridelynn · December 2017

I actually wouldn't mind paying extra for "premium access"

The problem is, knowing how corporations work, that it wouldn't be a one-way payment, and it wouldn't actually give me better access.

I would pay more for "premium access". The content provider would have to pay more to be able to ensure they are given premium access.

And the ISP in the middle, with their hands sticking out for cash in both directions, wouldn't actually do anything appreciably to improve my access or their network, because in most of the nation you really don't have any choice at all for your ISP. All of that cash goes to shareholders and executive payouts, as they all pat themselves on the back for a job well done, and the people on both ends just get stuck with a worse situation than we started out with.

Ridelynn · December 2017

https://www.recode.net/2017/4/27/15413870/comcast-broadband-internet-pay-tv-subscribers-q1-2017

Has some interesting and relevant statistics. I'll let readers draw their own conclusions.

This is also a good read, and talks about my biggest concern WRT net neutrality, even though the subject of the article itself is dated and a matter of historical record at this point.

https://www.recode.net/2015/4/23/11561844/blocking-comcast-is-a-start-but-if-we-want-better-broadband-we-need

OnisDE · December 2017

Being against net neutrality is like a roach advocating for Raid. Do you pay a different price per mwh for using your toaster vs your microwave if it uses the exact same amount of power? Do you pay a different price when calling two different numbers in the same area code? There is no difference in theory or in practice between utilities and internet service. Reversing net neutrality will have the opposite effect of those with the opinion that this will "free" companies. Can't pay the tariff new start-up? Get in the slow lane. Yeah, the new internet start-up is gonna do great when customers are staring at loading icons when waiting for the site to load.

And for that one poster who thinks the additional fee's will "create jobs". You are absolutely delusional. Companies hire because of need not out of some philanthropic desire.

YashaX · December 2017

Kyleran said:

YashaX said:

FlyByKnight said:

Cleffy said:

Actually it would be freer for the ISPs to remain title 1 companies. Although the ISPs seem to have a lot of power, they are limited in their ability to abuse it by other means. There is no stopping an abuse of power by the US government without a revolt. By the FCC taking less authority over the net they are letting the private sector and citizen retain more power. Equality does not equal freedom.
That said, there is a quite a bit of fear mongering on the subject that is quite odd if you don't understand the infrastructure of the internet. It would be freakishly slow for an ISP to examine every single packet that comes through their network and deny access depending on who it is going to. What makes the internet run optimally is the simple structure of routing a packet in a timely manner. How they throttle a service like peer to peer sharing is by throttling a specific port universally across their network. This port was typically shared with game networks so they were also throttled. This check could be executed in a single line of code. Checking where a packet is coming from and who it is going to is a much more complicated check.
Doing such a check would also violate licensing contracts with regional ISP providers like Cogent and Level 3. It may also violate FTC rules.

Don't you dare lump "private sector" and "citizen" into one bucket my friend. They are NOT the same. I'm not clear on what equality vs freedom even has to do with the conversation either. Care to expound?

I notice that some Americans sadly don't seem to realize that in a democracy at least, the government represents the citizens of a country, while a listed company is obligated to work in the best interest of the company/shareholders, not of citizens (unless forced to by some kind of government regulation).

You also realize that in many cases the employees of a listed company are citizens and their livelihoods depend on the success of said firm.

Also many citizens are stockholders of companies including "evil" ISP firms.

A balance needs to be struck and maintained to provide sufficient benefit to all concerned.

I don't think ISP or other firms are evil. Firms work to maximize their own gains, which can benefit employees. However, they don't need to think about society as a whole; that is not necessarily bad, and can in fact be very good, as long as the rest of the checks and balances set up in capitalist democracies are functioning correctly.

What disturbs me is that newsflow out of the US (and posts on this forum) increasingly shows that people don't understand this, and mainly act/think based on partisan lines even on something as clear cut as net neutrality. Seeing people actively support/promote policy that would hurt them is weird.

Channandler · December 2017

wow, you have so many topics to discuss! I guess this forum gathers fan of all the games! http://mega-moolah-play.com/ may give some extraordinary info about games!

postlarval · December 2017

Torval said:

Oh Reddit...

https://i.redd.it/z184o4e05z101.jpg

What did you expect from someone who uses the handle 'bonerfart'?

Asm0deus · December 2017

ScotchUp said:

Makes me laugh after 8 years of Obama, any law no matter what it is called can't be trusted when Government is telling us how great it will be for America. Keep Government out of internet!

Makes me laugh all the Obama hate, when you got someone like Trump who is only doing his best to line his pockets, and how some people think "Govment" is big bad and evil so lets give all the powa to them nice caring corporations cause they sure have your best interests at heart......lolz

postlarval · December 2017

Asm0deus said:

ScotchUp said:

Makes me laugh after 8 years of Obama, any law no matter what it is called can't be trusted when Government is telling us how great it will be for America. Keep Government out of internet!

Makes me laugh all the Obama hate, when you got someone like Trump who is only doing his best to line his pockets, and how some people think "Govment" is big bad and evil so lets give all the powa to them nice caring corporations cause they sure have your best interests at heart......lolz

You know, we can have this conversation without the usual political bickering.

How about we do that.

Howdy, Stranger!

So, Where Are YOU on Net Neutrality?

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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So, Where Are YOU on Net Neutrality?

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV