@Renfail Pay no attention to these negatives opinions, get your game out and let the market decide whether this concept is good or not. I think your bigger issue is getting the word out about your game. Not many out there even know this game exists.
One of the things I loved about City of Heroes was that you could just "put up your LFT flag" and soon get invited to join a team. Sometimes you'd get invitations even when you weren't looking! Sure, it would be a different team every time, but it was as if everyone was part of one big happy family. "There are no strangers here, only friends we haven't met." And people who wanted to could always make appointments to play together. When they added bases for groups (aka secret hideouts) it just made it easier and more fun to role-play.
I actually agree with most of what was said in that article. However, there was an underlying assumption that they were talking about people who will log in on a regular schedule. Say from 6 p.m. to 11 p.m. every evening, for example. All that talk about getting to know people and continuing to group repeatedly with those same people works great for those who can commit to a regular gaming schedule like that but not so great for people who log in haphazardly when they happen to get the chance.
I would really like a grouping game again but my personal needs would require it to be at least reasonably possible to find groups to join even though I can't play every day and can't predict exactly when and for how long I can play. I know that this is possible without an automated group finder but I doubt if the guys making this game would have any interest in accommodation people like me.
Are they still planning for soloing to be completely impossible? I know the ultimate focus of the game is going to be on no-life raiding. It all paints a very unattractive picture for me.
I can imagine how things would go if I ever tried this game. My first day I would wander around unable to do anything because I can't solo anything. I would go to the tavern and try to find a group but when they ask about my play schedule and I can't commit to a regular daily time frame----nobody wants me. Ok, maybe I could occasionally scrape together enough other scrubs like myself to fill out a group and do something but most days I would probably end up just logging off again after a half hour or so. If, by some miracle, I actually managed to progress through the game for a while I would eventually hit the raid-or-quit wall at which point I would quit while wondering why I even bothered playing the game in the first place.
At no point in time have we ever stated that our game is about "no life raiding".
Right, well you wouldn't say that would you. I just poked around your site in case I was remembering incorrectly or to see if you changed something. In your FAQ it states that there will be 32 person raids.
Clearly if you're going to have raids like that then that will be the only way to progress your character after a certain point. It is a an unavoidable fact that people would not do big raids if there was any alternate progression path, therefore we can safely assume that there won't be.
Progressing our characters is the only motivation these games give us to log in and do stuff. After a certain point the only way to progress in your game will be through large, multi-group raids---therefore your game will be Raid-or-quit.
As to the "no-life raiding" comment, I'm sure it annoys you but it's another unavoidable fact that large raid gameplay of the type you are planning to have consumes huge amounts of time. Even if the actual raids themselves only take a few hours per session there is so much other crap associated with it that the time investment is unacceptable for any relatively normal person with a life outside of gaming, thus the "no-life" modifier is entirely true and applicable.
If you've ever played a tabletop campaign game like D&D you know that "no life raiding" isn't how you progress. It's always the next adventure. Our game is trying to break some molds in that respect. There will always be another epic length campaign-like quest that you haven't done yet, or a dungeon you haven't encountered yet. This will be a dungeon crawler game, it is unlikely that a group could "finish" a dungeon in one session at the higher tier of play. That coupled with the epic quests and the rewards of those will offer plenty of reward and progression. Raids might be a one-night, quick way to progress, but an equal amount of progression will be found through campaigns you spend several nights on with your friends in groups of 6-8 and you'll have a helluvah story to tell at the end of those. I think that where raid items might be top tier, if the group you roll with doesn't raid then you won't need those raid item and will be fine with slightly lower tier items from quests.
Personally, I'm disappointed that the group size for dungeons is so high (8) for this game, with raids on top of that. Would love a new group focused game with some ability to scale based on players present, with mechanics in place to deal with, say 3-6 players. Failing that, a game that is designed around a smaller group size. As far as I'm aware, Pantheon will be developed for a fixed (large) group size too.
I know we all have different views on this based on our personal situations, but this is mine.
There will be plenty of group-based content in the outdoor zones for groups of 2-4 players (and small groups of 3-6). Only the dungeons are geared towards 8-player parties (with raids beyond that).
If there is outdoor content for small groups, then there really should be dungeons too.
Scale back the difficulty slightly and the loot quality, give people the choice.
I find instances and dungeons to be very lame cheap ways of delivering content,as well they are immersion breaking.Instances are not part of the world and the reason is not actually to slay a beast for any plausible reason to the lore of the game it is ONLY done to attain loot.
The fact some Dragon may "drop" loot is retarded and again immersion breaking.Now using the case of say Jason and the Argonauts,said Dragon may be GUARDING said treasure "Golden Fleece",but he wouldn't drop it lol.
There are just too many mmorpg's all doing it WRONG,they are not trying to be plausible immersive games in a living world they are trying to be computer mechanics/code for no purpose other than to attain NON related "to your profession/ROLE" XP and to attain loot.
Basically,the way these games are designed to be played out,the reasoning,you could just stick a yellow marker in a square box,go click it for xp or automate your dmg output versus that yellow marker to determine an auto outcome to get your loot.In MOST cases loot doesn't even make sense,it SHOULD appear on the defendent,you should see that foe wearing that gear and wielding that weapon,this is seldom ever done,again making games and their designers look foolish.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I actually agree with most of what was said in that article. However, there was an underlying assumption that they were talking about people who will log in on a regular schedule. Say from 6 p.m. to 11 p.m. every evening, for example. All that talk about getting to know people and continuing to group repeatedly with those same people works great for those who can commit to a regular gaming schedule like that but not so great for people who log in haphazardly when they happen to get the chance.
I would really like a grouping game again but my personal needs would require it to be at least reasonably possible to find groups to join even though I can't play every day and can't predict exactly when and for how long I can play. I know that this is possible without an automated group finder but I doubt if the guys making this game would have any interest in accommodation people like me.
Are they still planning for soloing to be completely impossible? I know the ultimate focus of the game is going to be on no-life raiding. It all paints a very unattractive picture for me.
I can imagine how things would go if I ever tried this game. My first day I would wander around unable to do anything because I can't solo anything. I would go to the tavern and try to find a group but when they ask about my play schedule and I can't commit to a regular daily time frame----nobody wants me. Ok, maybe I could occasionally scrape together enough other scrubs like myself to fill out a group and do something but most days I would probably end up just logging off again after a half hour or so. If, by some miracle, I actually managed to progress through the game for a while I would eventually hit the raid-or-quit wall at which point I would quit while wondering why I even bothered playing the game in the first place.
At no point in time have we ever stated that our game is about "no life raiding".
Right, well you wouldn't say that would you. I just poked around your site in case I was remembering incorrectly or to see if you changed something. In your FAQ it states that there will be 32 person raids.
Clearly if you're going to have raids like that then that will be the only way to progress your character after a certain point. It is a an unavoidable fact that people would not do big raids if there was any alternate progression path, therefore we can safely assume that there won't be.
Progressing our characters is the only motivation these games give us to log in and do stuff. After a certain point the only way to progress in your game will be through large, multi-group raids---therefore your game will be Raid-or-quit.
As to the "no-life raiding" comment, I'm sure it annoys you but it's another unavoidable fact that large raid gameplay of the type you are planning to have consumes huge amounts of time. Even if the actual raids themselves only take a few hours per session there is so much other crap associated with it that the time investment is unacceptable for any relatively normal person with a life outside of gaming, thus the "no-life" modifier is entirely true and applicable.
If you've ever played a tabletop campaign game like D&D you know that "no life raiding" isn't how you progress. It's always the next adventure. Our game is trying to break some molds in that respect. There will always be another epic length campaign-like quest that you haven't done yet, or a dungeon you haven't encountered yet. This will be a dungeon crawler game, it is unlikely that a group could "finish" a dungeon in one session at the higher tier of play. That coupled with the epic quests and the rewards of those will offer plenty of reward and progression. Raids might be a one-night, quick way to progress, but an equal amount of progression will be found through campaigns you spend several nights on with your friends in groups of 6-8 and you'll have a helluvah story to tell at the end of those. I think that where raid items might be top tier, if the group you roll with doesn't raid then you won't need those raid item and will be fine with slightly lower tier items from quests.
Your response was sounding good at first and that tiny little part of my mind that hasn't yet become totally jaded and cynical was starting to try to claw it's way to the surface. Then you trotted out the standard argument used by devs who are making a raiding game.
-----Only raiders need good equipment so if you don't raid you don't need good equipment.-----
An argument which completely misses the point and totally ignores the fact that when playing a progression game...duh...of course people want to progress.
When I read that tired old load of crap I promptly beat that tiny, little, hopeful part of my mind back into its' pit and covered the hole with concrete. Yeah, whatever man. It's your game, if you think there is a market for no life raiding then go for it but it's not for me.
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Next year's a big year for us. Stay tuned!
If you've ever played a tabletop campaign game like D&D you know that "no life raiding" isn't how you progress. It's always the next adventure. Our game is trying to break some molds in that respect. There will always be another epic length campaign-like quest that you haven't done yet, or a dungeon you haven't encountered yet. This will be a dungeon crawler game, it is unlikely that a group could "finish" a dungeon in one session at the higher tier of play. That coupled with the epic quests and the rewards of those will offer plenty of reward and progression. Raids might be a one-night, quick way to progress, but an equal amount of progression will be found through campaigns you spend several nights on with your friends in groups of 6-8 and you'll have a helluvah story to tell at the end of those. I think that where raid items might be top tier, if the group you roll with doesn't raid then you won't need those raid item and will be fine with slightly lower tier items from quests.
If there is outdoor content for small groups, then there really should be dungeons too.
Scale back the difficulty slightly and the loot quality, give people the choice.
The fact some Dragon may "drop" loot is retarded and again immersion breaking.Now using the case of say Jason and the Argonauts,said Dragon may be GUARDING said treasure "Golden Fleece",but he wouldn't drop it lol.
There are just too many mmorpg's all doing it WRONG,they are not trying to be plausible immersive games in a living world they are trying to be computer mechanics/code for no purpose other than to attain NON related "to your profession/ROLE" XP and to attain loot.
Basically,the way these games are designed to be played out,the reasoning,you could just stick a yellow marker in a square box,go click it for xp or automate your dmg output versus that yellow marker to determine an auto outcome to get your loot.In MOST cases loot doesn't even make sense,it SHOULD appear on the defendent,you should see that foe wearing that gear and wielding that weapon,this is seldom ever done,again making games and their designers look foolish.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Your response was sounding good at first and that tiny little part of my mind that hasn't yet become totally jaded and cynical was starting to try to claw it's way to the surface. Then you trotted out the standard argument used by devs who are making a raiding game.
-----Only raiders need good equipment so if you don't raid you don't need good equipment.-----
An argument which completely misses the point and totally ignores the fact that when playing a progression game...duh...of course people want to progress.
When I read that tired old load of crap I promptly beat that tiny, little, hopeful part of my mind back into its' pit and covered the hole with concrete. Yeah, whatever man. It's your game, if you think there is a market for no life raiding then go for it but it's not for me.