Originally posted by gevrik No you are missing my point, the people on the forum are not the majority of the playerbase, maybe 10% of that, and of course they are the vocal _minority_, nobody posts about a game they are happily playing.
Forum playerbase != Game playerbase
It's maybe 10% - 20% of the total number of players, that was my point. If you can't see how many people are happily playing, you can of course only get your opinion from the forum, but that is not the majority of players represented there.
I wouldn't be posting here if I wasn't at work, I'd be playing.
Everyone else here is posting from work too.
It maybe that only 10% of players post, but that's still enough to get a wide cross section of the opinions and some idea of their proportion.
10% is a big figure. If a political poll could get 10% of the voters it would be the best one ever.
So yes it isn't the majority of players who post in a forum, but it is still a proportional crowd of the actual players. Their opinions are clearly representative of the playerbase as a whole and are taken directly from them.
The exact % of happy/unhappy punters is not a precise ratio from forum users to total playerbase, it is howver the best estimation currently available to us.
The idea that you might be the only satisfied gamer to post seems a little far fetched.
I think what gevrik might be missing.... Its not 10% dissidents and whiners that post on forums, then 90% that happily play and never say a word. A forum is normally built several years before a game is released. Both fanatic fan bois and interested onlooker post side by side, talking about the game. Then comes beta, and all through beta people are encouraged to post any feedback they might have, be it good or bad, so that the devs get a good picture where the good and part parts are in advance, before release.
This... builds a culture. A forum culture. A group of people that, like it or not, will post their thoughts in game forum, to continue thier feedback to the devs. Yes, there are professional whiners there as well, you spot them easilly with their bombastic phrasing and revolutionary temper.. and incoherent posts. And learn to ignore them quite quickly. But then there is the whole beta culture, the forum group that is used to post their thoughts in acreative manner. and they.. both like and dislike the game. And they belong in a whole different group than the whiners, wether you like it or not. They are a slice of the average gamers. They are the walking, talking consumer poll. They have for several years followed the game and constantly given their feedback, both good and bad, and they wont stop just because the game is released.
Now, I KNOW you want to believe that only crybabies post in forums, and no one who say anything negative can have anyhting to do with the average player. Well, you are just ignoring the fact that we are talking about people exactly like you now. People that, no matter what others say, believe in the game with religous fanatism, where the game is the Word, and all thruths are in the game. And those people like you, the fanatics.. are slowly seeing what 85-90% of the beta testers saw (also a group you have chosen to ignore. 85-90% of the betatesters, many picked because they had stayed in DDO forum since the very first month. NOT just whiners). The game has problems. It has no lastability. It does not grow on people it slowly fades away into boredom.
That you have not reached that yet means nothing. You are not alone i believeing blindly in a game... But you mightneed to tone down your righteous wrath and understand that... Average Joe has already spoken, several months ago. Now the blind fanatics are beginning to say the same.
Even you must see that there is a problem somewhere.... Even you...
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force"
I tried DDO Beta and I didn't like it. No need to repeat why, it is already been said by many people. Since I am not a big fan of writing in forum (as you can see in my number of post), I never said anything good or bad about the game, but I read alot of forum on every game I'm interrested in. Many people will read the forum and think about posting but they don't do it because what they had to say was already said. So you can problably double the % of the minority, because people are reading post and not writing post.
As for SWG availablity at Amazone, it doesn't mean the game is good when it's available, look at WoW, it was sold out for a while or EQ2 at the time of the Expansion DoF. When a game is sold out, that gives me a reason to think the game is good (don't get me wrong I am not saying this is right for all games).
I played many MMO in the past few years, I have some experience in seing game dying SWG or Matrix online. But when you read actual fact on the DDO forum you can't get it wrong. Like 10 days after the launch their was a big post about the first lvl 10 (max lvl in DDO). 10 days, think about it, what you do after, play alts. Their is no PvP or crafting to enjoy the end game. Ok your going to say that guy was crazy, but lets think he played 16 hours a day for 10 days, it is 160 hours of play time to get to the end of the game. I would say that a regular player will play 20 hours a week, that means in 8 weeks I will be done with the game.
If you like the game go for you, but if you look at the ratio here, out of 10 person you are the only one defending the game, open your eyes and get the clue. The game was dead at the Beta, they will need a major revamp to keep it going.
To finish, I follow your idea, I should not believe/trust what I read on the forum about games, so why are you trying to convince us with your opinion, like you said we won't follow it.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
I learned a long time ago there is very little substance on game forums, particularly here where the WoW fanboi and hardcore gamers are in mass. People complain, people praise, but when it comes right down too it, nothing anyone says on these or any other forum's makes any difference in anything at all, myself included. Play the game, ignore the "this game is Dead" type posts, because unless they work for Turbine, they really don't know a thing other then their own bias experiences.
Sure they will give reasons, "Look whats being said on these boards," or "It took me 15 whole minutes last night to find a group!! where is everyone!" and they will try to demonize the game company, "Turbine sucks, they killed this game in beta," or "Turbine is ripping you off," and don't forget about the "This is not even close to D&D." But you know what, the game will still be here, as well as plenty of players to enjoy it. Just because you don't have to wait in a Qeue line to get in, doesnt mean the game is dieing.
Play it, enjoy it till the next one comes out and you decide to move on.
Originally posted by gevrik Tried SWG but it wasn't my cup of tea, but still, I haven't heard about any server mergers or server shutdowns, so it can't be that bad, right?
Apart from the fact that around 75% of players left the game within last six months, yes - it's going strong as ever.
But they were just a "vocal minority", as SOE put it. Unfortunately for SOE, that "vocal minority" quickly turned into "majority" and clicked the cancel button.
SOE can take the loss, they don't keep all their eggs in one basket. Do you think Turbine can?
Originally posted by Talon54 I learned a long time ago there is very little substance on game forums, particularly here where the WoW fanboi and hardcore gamers are in mass. People complain, people praise, but when it comes right down too it, nothing anyone says on these or any other forum's makes any difference in anything at all, myself included. Play the game, ignore the "this game is Dead" type posts, because unless they work for Turbine, they really don't know a thing other then their own bias experiences. Sure they will give reasons, "Look whats being said on these boards," or "It took me 15 whole minutes last night to find a group!! where is everyone!" and they will try to demonize the game company, "Turbine sucks, they killed this game in beta," or "Turbine is ripping you off," and don't forget about the "This is not even close to D&D." But you know what, the game will still be here, as well as plenty of players to enjoy it. Just because you don't have to wait in a Qeue line to get in, doesnt mean the game is dieing. Play it, enjoy it till the next one comes out and you decide to move on.
Dude, don't compare DDO with Anarchy Online. DDO is nothing like that game as this game was created by company whose second game got removed this site/forum and this game already losing player and lower it's price then usual MMORPGs. So don't make any favor predictions when results already there in front of us.
Comments
Everyone else here is posting from work too.
It maybe that only 10% of players post, but that's still enough to get a wide cross section of the opinions and some idea of their proportion.
10% is a big figure. If a political poll could get 10% of the voters it would be the best one ever.
So yes it isn't the majority of players who post in a forum, but it is still a proportional crowd of the actual players. Their opinions are clearly representative of the playerbase as a whole and are taken directly from them.
The exact % of happy/unhappy punters is not a precise ratio from forum users to total playerbase, it is howver the best estimation currently available to us.
The idea that you might be the only satisfied gamer to post seems a little far fetched.
I think what gevrik might be missing.... Its not 10% dissidents and whiners that post on forums, then 90% that happily play and never say a word. A forum is normally built several years before a game is released. Both fanatic fan bois and interested onlooker post side by side, talking about the game. Then comes beta, and all through beta people are encouraged to post any feedback they might have, be it good or bad, so that the devs get a good picture where the good and part parts are in advance, before release.
This... builds a culture. A forum culture. A group of people that, like it or not, will post their thoughts in game forum, to continue thier feedback to the devs. Yes, there are professional whiners there as well, you spot them easilly with their bombastic phrasing and revolutionary temper.. and incoherent posts. And learn to ignore them quite quickly. But then there is the whole beta culture, the forum group that is used to post their thoughts in acreative manner. and they.. both like and dislike the game. And they belong in a whole different group than the whiners, wether you like it or not. They are a slice of the average gamers. They are the walking, talking consumer poll. They have for several years followed the game and constantly given their feedback, both good and bad, and they wont stop just because the game is released.
Now, I KNOW you want to believe that only crybabies post in forums, and no one who say anything negative can have anyhting to do with the average player. Well, you are just ignoring the fact that we are talking about people exactly like you now. People that, no matter what others say, believe in the game with religous fanatism, where the game is the Word, and all thruths are in the game. And those people like you, the fanatics.. are slowly seeing what 85-90% of the beta testers saw (also a group you have chosen to ignore. 85-90% of the betatesters, many picked because they had stayed in DDO forum since the very first month. NOT just whiners). The game has problems. It has no lastability. It does not grow on people it slowly fades away into boredom.
That you have not reached that yet means nothing. You are not alone i believeing blindly in a game... But you mightneed to tone down your righteous wrath and understand that... Average Joe has already spoken, several months ago. Now the blind fanatics are beginning to say the same.
Even you must see that there is a problem somewhere.... Even you...
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
I tried DDO Beta and I didn't like it. No need to repeat why, it is already been said by many people. Since I am not a big fan of writing in forum (as you can see in my number of post), I never said anything good or bad about the game, but I read alot of forum on every game I'm interrested in. Many people will read the forum and think about posting but they don't do it because what they had to say was already said. So you can problably double the % of the minority, because people are reading post and not writing post.
As for SWG availablity at Amazone, it doesn't mean the game is good when it's available, look at WoW, it was sold out for a while or EQ2 at the time of the Expansion DoF. When a game is sold out, that gives me a reason to think the game is good (don't get me wrong I am not saying this is right for all games).
I played many MMO in the past few years, I have some experience in seing game dying SWG or Matrix online. But when you read actual fact on the DDO forum you can't get it wrong. Like 10 days after the launch their was a big post about the first lvl 10 (max lvl in DDO). 10 days, think about it, what you do after, play alts. Their is no PvP or crafting to enjoy the end game. Ok your going to say that guy was crazy, but lets think he played 16 hours a day for 10 days, it is 160 hours of play time to get to the end of the game. I would say that a regular player will play 20 hours a week, that means in 8 weeks I will be done with the game.
If you like the game go for you, but if you look at the ratio here, out of 10 person you are the only one defending the game, open your eyes and get the clue. The game was dead at the Beta, they will need a major revamp to keep it going.
To finish, I follow your idea, I should not believe/trust what I read on the forum about games, so why are you trying to convince us with your opinion, like you said we won't follow it.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
I learned a long time ago there is very little substance on game forums, particularly here where the WoW fanboi and hardcore gamers are in mass. People complain, people praise, but when it comes right down too it, nothing anyone says on these or any other forum's makes any difference in anything at all, myself included. Play the game, ignore the "this game is Dead" type posts, because unless they work for Turbine, they really don't know a thing other then their own bias experiences.
Sure they will give reasons, "Look whats being said on these boards," or "It took me 15 whole minutes last night to find a group!! where is everyone!" and they will try to demonize the game company, "Turbine sucks, they killed this game in beta," or "Turbine is ripping you off," and don't forget about the "This is not even close to D&D." But you know what, the game will still be here, as well as plenty of players to enjoy it. Just because you don't have to wait in a Qeue line to get in, doesnt mean the game is dieing.
Play it, enjoy it till the next one comes out and you decide to move on.
Apart from the fact that around 75% of players left the game within last six months, yes - it's going strong as ever.
But they were just a "vocal minority", as SOE put it. Unfortunately for SOE, that "vocal minority" quickly turned into "majority" and clicked the cancel button.
SOE can take the loss, they don't keep all their eggs in one basket. Do you think Turbine can?