No PvP is a deal breaker, and I've been supporting Pantheon for a long time. Furthermore, "We can't expect our most hardcore players to play 8 hour sessions"? What? I thought this was a hardcore MMO? Who are these guys trying to appeal to? Why would they even say this? Very worrying.
Funny, some of the PVP comments. PVP has SINGLE-HANDEDLY KILLED the genre. The SMALLEST percentage ruins it for the masses. The PC (political correctness) of gaming. Devs, give them their own server. You will shut it down in 3 months anyway!!
No PvP is a deal breaker, and I've been supporting Pantheon for a long time. Furthermore, "We can't expect our most hardcore players to play 8 hour sessions"? What? I thought this was a hardcore MMO? Who are these guys trying to appeal to? Why would they even say this? Very worrying.
They said pvp would not be a major part of the game from the beginning.
No, no one ever said this was going to be a "hardcore" mmo. They did say that it would hearken back (my verbiage there) to the earlier games as far as game play.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Very glad PVP is not part of core design. Dont like PVP, have tried it in a few games, just not worth the tears from PVP players that disagree with this mechanic or that spell damage. Most PVP players I talked dont care about anything else except PVP and themselves, and god forbid they are forced into PUGs, we'd never hear the end of it for weeks.
Very glad PVP is not part of core design. Dont like PVP, have tried it in a few games, just not worth the tears from PVP players that disagree with this mechanic or that spell damage. Most PVP players I talked dont care about anything else except PVP and themselves, and god forbid they are forced into PUGs, we'd never hear the end of it for weeks.
Any type of PVP in MMOs used to work fine before other types of games, MOBAs mostly, did it without level or gear disparity and became mainstream.
When MMOs these days try to do MOBA-like quick match PVP, the comparison with those other games is inevitable because we all know how they work.
What MMOs can provide that MOBAs can't is the 24/7, persistent, large scale, group-based PVP just like DAoC used to do. In that type of PVP it's all about the group and you can minimize the impact of individual disparities.
As a matter of fact modern games that still do large scale PVP provide much more of that sense of old-fashioned community than any of their PVE play. It's why some of us still seek that type of game play.
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I’m all in on Pantheon, but I’m scared about lack of solo content. As a father, husband, employee, and homeowner, I don’t have 3 hours every night to play. And we all know how long it takes to get a group and move out. How will I be able to play Pantheon is 30-minute or 1 hour bursts with everything based around grouping?
I’m all in on Pantheon, but I’m scared about lack of solo content. As a father, husband, employee, and homeowner, I don’t have 3 hours every night to play. And we all know how long it takes to get a group and move out. How will I be able to play Pantheon is 30-minute or 1 hour bursts with everything based around grouping?
I know two things,people tire of me mentioning FFXi and i know this game will never be,it can't afford to do all the things that made FFXI great.
WTF am i talking about?Well i'll tell,FFXI was imo the ONLY game that pulled off being both a true steadfast grouping game but also allowed players to solo if they so desired albeit took a lot of work to get to that point. It can be done,you can cater to both worlds,it still keeps the toughest content/fights in a group scenario. However,there lies a whole other topic,how hard do you actually want those fights to be and should they even exist and for what purpose?I have long been in favor of the normal 6 man or even 5 man group,these so called raids are silly and not needed and does NOTHING to improve combat.
By keeping all the toughest fights down to a minimum,perhaps even a 3 man if they have the right classes and gear and skill but normally 5 or 6 ,allows everyone to enjoy the game and not that select very small % that feel the need to tell others they are doing RAIDS.It all comes down to the team,are they knowledgeable enough,have they played enough games to see how things differ from WOW or the EQ series,are they wiling to put in the time and thinking and testing to see what works and tweak the problems. Game design is not something for all these fly by night kickstarter studios,you have to be serious or the game will look like a KS'r game,a CF game,a f2p game...like crap.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I’m all in on Pantheon, but I’m scared about lack of solo content. As a father, husband, employee, and homeowner, I don’t have 3 hours every night to play. And we all know how long it takes to get a group and move out. How will I be able to play Pantheon is 30-minute or 1 hour bursts with everything based around grouping?
Devs have said many times thru the years. Players always find a way to play a class or game not envisioned by the development team . Everquest was developed as a group centered game. The players figured out kiting on the druid, reverse kiting on the necro etc. The game may be group focused but the players including myself will figure out how to meet our goals as a solo player or grouped.
This game is DOA. Nobody is going to enjoy it once they play it. People remember EQ and the great raids they had as a different person long ago, it was their first MMORPG, everything was new, exciting, never had been seen in a game before etc. YOu can never get that feeling back, so making a game that copies that old, boring, ancient combat and style of forced groupoing and slow everything, its gonna fail bigtime in 2017, even the ones that think they want this, will not enjoy it ocne they play it in this new older body they have now with responsibilities and not all day to sit there just to form a group and get through 6 hour raids and so on.
The core focus of this mmorpg is PVE and I know from hands on experience being a long term EQ1 player that when PVE is developed right it creates an immersive feel like no other - forming a strong bond with your characters avatar, something that has lacked for many many years. Countless MMO's have been developed to please everyone and quickly get boring or lose appeal to be only be kept alive with a PVP offerings that tend to go f2p. If you have never played EQ1 I envisage you will be in for a treat when this title launches!, and for those of you who have been part of the original 1999 journey.. well you know whats coming. It's developed by many who refer to him as the grandfather of MMO's, personally I'm glad he's back with a solid team behind him, I have no doubt this will spark life back into PC MMO community gaming once again.
That's a switch, they've said before at least 1 PvP server would be there at launch. Now it's "eventually". This is reminding me too much how Zek servers (PvP servers) in EQ were treated. That's disappointing, because I was so looking forward to playing Pantheon's PvP server at launch.
Right now I just might skip this game completely. Chalk it up to another crowded funded game, with big ambitions and promises, that never get fully realized or fulfilled. Seeing this happen to both Pantheon and CU is just too much.
Anyways, to anybody who thinks they're so going to love this game because they want "old school group" gameplay, I recommend you to login to EQ's progression servers. Try that first, see if you can last long there. If you do, then Pantheon might be for you. If not, then maybe, just maybe, you don't like old school gameplay as much as you think you do.
Last opinion, regional banks and player driven economy will become tedious for most people sooner than later. Ideas like these always sound better on paper, but they aren't as fun when you have to spend 1/2 of your playtime traveling.
With all that said, I wish for their success. The genre can use more games that don't do the same things. I just wish sometimes these developers learn from past mistakes.
Played: EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-LOTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO-BDO Waiting For: CU & Vanilla WoW
I wasn't ever sold on this old-school throwback type of mmo, especially after we've been spoiled and ruined by the instant-gratification, p2w, action combat, improved graphics, etc. mmo's of late. Yet, without pvp being a integral part of the game I can now say for sure I am not interested at all. Best of luck to them and those it appeals to though.
PvP will be integral on a PvP server, but if PvE isn't the primary gameplay, PvP becomes meaningless. The best PvP I've ever had were games with high stakes. That meant fighting over open world content, not just a reputation or territory that has no lasting impact.
"BRAD: The plan is to have basic mounts. It'll help with speed with a buff. Then you get saddle bags and things which will help you. Because the banks are not global."
Don't know if I heard and forgot but I don't remember the localized banking. THAT IS AWESOME!
that would make all the main towns important, not some main hub everyone gravitates towards. Cool idea and I'm not against it but I can also see it being a pain to get used to after so many games having world banks.
Spot on. Curious how all this will go down. The best thing that could happen for this game is the people that really like it show up first. Hopefully there will be enough for them to continue development and make a profit. Then have more people trickle in. I think part of the problem with big releases back in the day is congestion and trying to appease everyone. If they can handle server load at launch and the majority of the player base is on the same page at launch (pro localized banks, old style mmo etc,) I think people will adjust. Heck the fact that it is a pain to travel so far is what will make the prices go up. Maybe people could even caravan?
Perhaps the most dangerous thing that could happen to Pantheon is to get too big before launch. Mass congestion can cause server crashes/instability. A bunch of people with different expectations (many not looking for this kind of game) will start petitioning for changes on the forums. We will start to see the same drama unfold that has plagued numerous games in the post Vanilla WoW era.
again I go back to my days in early EQ. Traveling was a need because there wasn't ports to PoK and if you found a spire you were still a ways away from getting where you needed to go and usually involved, if you were lower level, working your way around mobs much higher level then you were. It sounds like a pain in the ass these days but I'll tell ya, thinking back on it, I think that's what made it fun. Even when PoP came out, you still had to sometimes go through rough areas plus know how to get to the zonelines because that shit wasn't marked on your map without a mod lol I say if they are going to bring back meaningful traveling, I say go for it and don't half-ass it either. If done right, it would really help build immersion, if done wrong, it would kill the game haha they have to find a balance between time-sink and meaningful travel lol
PvP server is basically PvE on hardmode difficulty. A lot of people have a misconception of what Brad McQuaid pvp is like. I guess we will see how they do things in pantheon
for those who only play if there's pvp, there's a ton of pvp mmo's out there, why the hell do we need another one? go play one of the bazillions already live. im glad it pve focused, finally, a pve focused hardcore social group based game.
If the game is set to be pve and designed around group play, then you will have certain classes that are overpowered and certain that are underpowered in a pvp fight......whichever you want, you need to have it balanced
for that type of play. That doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be bad for the PVP guys, rather it means that they "if done right" will all have a close to equal chance in combat. Pvpers will not like it if they don't do this, so rather than build it into the original game or I won't play, I think we really want them to take their time and do a good balance for pvp so we will play.
for those who only play if there's pvp, there's a ton of pvp mmo's out there, why the hell do we need another one? go play one of the bazillions already live. im glad it pve focused, finally, a pve focused hardcore social group based game.
Seriously! We have Crowfall and Camelot unchained, 2 reboots of Dark fall, fortnight (fail), pubg, albion, and on and on.
for those who only play if there's pvp, there's a ton of pvp mmo's out there, why the hell do we need another one? go play one of the bazillions already live. im glad it pve focused, finally, a pve focused hardcore social group based game.
That's not the point. Pantheon's own FAQ states "we understand that a portion of our target audience also enjoys player vs. player. Our experience is that separate PvE and PvP shards is the answer, however it is too early to predict how many PvP shards we would launch with. That being said, we will definitely launch with at least one player vs. player shard."
But this interview they perhaps slipped? and said "eventually" they'll have PvP. That's a big change. Seeing how this is a crowdfunded game, you hate to see the bait & switch. To your point, I would argue there are tons of PvE-centric games out there, including this one. But if PvP gamers are a portion of their target audience (per their FAQ), and they've been stating there would be at least 1 PvP shard at launch, then it would be sad they launch the game without PvP.
You don't need to fight their battles for them. They need to explain for themselves why they've been telling us one thing, then now all of a sudden do a 180.
Played: EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-LOTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO-BDO Waiting For: CU & Vanilla WoW
This game is DOA. Nobody is going to enjoy it once they play it. People remember EQ and the great raids they had as a different person long ago, it was their first MMORPG, everything was new, exciting, never had been seen in a game before etc. YOu can never get that feeling back, so making a game that copies that old, boring, ancient combat and style of forced groupoing and slow everything, its gonna fail bigtime in 2017, even the ones that think they want this, will not enjoy it ocne they play it in this new older body they have now with responsibilities and not all day to sit there just to form a group and get through 6 hour raids and so on.
I disagree, from someone who has tried many MMO's trying trying to recapture some of that fun I use to have I stopped at Black Dessert. After a couple of days of the "action" combat, pretty graphics it got boring/old quick. I finally got around to trying Project 99 and I ended up going to work on no sleep! Its a play style I found out I missed. It has a chance of bringing back some old player bases and giving a new player base something they never tried. It will be different then most of the recent MMO for sure.
A sudden 180? For a true 180 they would have had to have been developing a PvP game and now making it PvE. An FAQ with a statement that they would have one PvP server at launch is far from setting a tone of being PvP oriented. Nothing in their streams have hinted at PvP emphasis, let alone even really talked about PvP until now. Time and again the dev team has made it VERY clear that this is a group PvE game for a niche market.
Why would any dire PvPers even want to play a game that is clearly designed as PvE...you know the PvP will suck. So instead of trying to play a PvE centric game as a PvPer then bitching and moaning and taking tons of post-release dev time away from the core of the game...just move on to one of the billion PvP games out there and in the pipeline and let us PvE guys have a game for us for once without your cash shop PvP whores ruining everything.
If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!
Some of my worst gaming moments have been in open world pvp games cause of some childish or outright offensive players (they might not calling it childish for them its skill and an art to offend others). So i really despise PVP after all.And i dont want to invest even a second dealing with it.But i really enjoy competitive/social pve games.
That said . As mentioned above there will be different ruleset. And you can offend players as much as you want on PvP ruleset Server (i wont be there yay) and it prolly wont do you any good cause thoose having the nerves to keep playing on pvp server will group against you sooner or later. The game being designed around pve doesnt mean its a bad pvp game. Actually it might make pvp even more worthwhile. Since you have something to fight for other then just offending others by killing them without reasons.
If its your style of gaming go for it. Try it by all means. But dont tell me its a bad game if you havent tried yet.
I have good memories from playing vanguard on pvp server. I want to enjoy the game as intended with focus on pve, but with the possibility of fighting other players aswell.
I hope they release it with atleast one pvp server
for those who only play if there's pvp, there's a ton of pvp mmo's out there, why the hell do we need another one? go play one of the bazillions already live. im glad it pve focused, finally, a pve focused hardcore social group based game.
Seriously! We have Crowfall and Camelot unchained, 2 reboots of Dark fall, fortnight (fail), pubg, albion, and on and on.
Now, can you name a single pve only mmo?
While Pantheon won't be one, down the road anyways, Saga of Lucima will, no plans for PVP at present.
For released games there's A Tale in the Desert (or was), Ryzom, PVE only servers in EQ1, EQ2, WOW etc (which still have consensual PVP of course)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Having played PvP in EQ and EQ2 I would recommend to VR to just drop PvP at all. I support Pantheon but I also realize that there probably will only be a relative small customer base. And the PvP Pantheon fans will even be just a fraction of it as Everquest games have shown in the past. Considering their budget limitations the PvP part is just not worth it imo. Each $ they invest in PvP rule sets, coding, server setups, customer service etc. will be missing on the PvE side. And introducing PvP will cost them a lot of money.
I'd would prefer having a game with a great PvE experience instead of one being mediocre regarding PvE just to add some PvP which will not be used by most of their player base anyway or be dropped very soon.
Ot they can do the H1Z1 and Fortnite trick. Develop a game with a completely different approach first and then at the very end just add some PvP BR which more or less totally annihilates the original game idea. Ok, I doubt they will do that.
Comments
No, no one ever said this was going to be a "hardcore" mmo. They did say that it would hearken back (my verbiage there) to the earlier games as far as game play.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
When MMOs these days try to do MOBA-like quick match PVP, the comparison with those other games is inevitable because we all know how they work.
What MMOs can provide that MOBAs can't is the 24/7, persistent, large scale, group-based PVP just like DAoC used to do. In that type of PVP it's all about the group and you can minimize the impact of individual disparities.
As a matter of fact modern games that still do large scale PVP provide much more of that sense of old-fashioned community than any of their PVE play. It's why some of us still seek that type of game play.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
WTF am i talking about?Well i'll tell,FFXI was imo the ONLY game that pulled off being both a true steadfast grouping game but also allowed players to solo if they so desired albeit took a lot of work to get to that point.
It can be done,you can cater to both worlds,it still keeps the toughest content/fights in a group scenario.
However,there lies a whole other topic,how hard do you actually want those fights to be and should they even exist and for what purpose?I have long been in favor of the normal 6 man or even 5 man group,these so called raids are silly and not needed and does NOTHING to improve combat.
By keeping all the toughest fights down to a minimum,perhaps even a 3 man if they have the right classes and gear and skill but normally 5 or 6 ,allows everyone to enjoy the game and not that select very small % that feel the need to tell others they are doing RAIDS.It all comes down to the team,are they knowledgeable enough,have they played enough games to see how things differ from WOW or the EQ series,are they wiling to put in the time and thinking and testing to see what works and tweak the problems.
Game design is not something for all these fly by night kickstarter studios,you have to be serious or the game will look like a KS'r game,a CF game,a f2p game...like crap.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Devs have said many times thru the years. Players always find a way to play a class or game not envisioned by the development team . Everquest was developed as a group centered game. The players figured out kiting on the druid, reverse kiting on the necro etc. The game may be group focused but the players including myself will figure out how to meet our goals as a solo player or grouped.
GAME TIL YOU DIE!!!!
Right now I just might skip this game completely. Chalk it up to another crowded funded game, with big ambitions and promises, that never get fully realized or fulfilled. Seeing this happen to both Pantheon and CU is just too much.
Anyways, to anybody who thinks they're so going to love this game because they want "old school group" gameplay, I recommend you to login to EQ's progression servers. Try that first, see if you can last long there. If you do, then Pantheon might be for you. If not, then maybe, just maybe, you don't like old school gameplay as much as you think you do.
Last opinion, regional banks and player driven economy will become tedious for most people sooner than later. Ideas like these always sound better on paper, but they aren't as fun when you have to spend 1/2 of your playtime traveling.
With all that said, I wish for their success. The genre can use more games that don't do the same things. I just wish sometimes these developers learn from past mistakes.
Played: EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-LOTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO-BDO
Waiting For: CU & Vanilla WoW
again I go back to my days in early EQ. Traveling was a need because there wasn't ports to PoK and if you found a spire you were still a ways away from getting where you needed to go and usually involved, if you were lower level, working your way around mobs much higher level then you were. It sounds like a pain in the ass these days but I'll tell ya, thinking back on it, I think that's what made it fun. Even when PoP came out, you still had to sometimes go through rough areas plus know how to get to the zonelines because that shit wasn't marked on your map without a mod lol I say if they are going to bring back meaningful traveling, I say go for it and don't half-ass it either. If done right, it would really help build immersion, if done wrong, it would kill the game haha they have to find a balance between time-sink and meaningful travel lol
Now, can you name a single pve only mmo?
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
That's not the point. Pantheon's own FAQ states "we understand that a portion of our target audience also enjoys player vs. player. Our experience is that separate PvE and PvP shards is the answer, however it is too early to predict how many PvP shards we would launch with. That being said, we will definitely launch with at least one player vs. player shard."
But this interview they perhaps slipped? and said "eventually" they'll have PvP. That's a big change. Seeing how this is a crowdfunded game, you hate to see the bait & switch. To your point, I would argue there are tons of PvE-centric games out there, including this one. But if PvP gamers are a portion of their target audience (per their FAQ), and they've been stating there would be at least 1 PvP shard at launch, then it would be sad they launch the game without PvP.
You don't need to fight their battles for them. They need to explain for themselves why they've been telling us one thing, then now all of a sudden do a 180.
Played: EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-LOTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO-BDO
Waiting For: CU & Vanilla WoW
I disagree, from someone who has tried many MMO's trying trying to recapture some of that fun I use to have I stopped at Black Dessert. After a couple of days of the "action" combat, pretty graphics it got boring/old quick. I finally got around to trying Project 99 and I ended up going to work on no sleep! Its a play style I found out I missed. It has a chance of bringing back some old player bases and giving a new player base something they never tried. It will be different then most of the recent MMO for sure.
Why would any dire PvPers even want to play a game that is clearly designed as PvE...you know the PvP will suck. So instead of trying to play a PvE centric game as a PvPer then bitching and moaning and taking tons of post-release dev time away from the core of the game...just move on to one of the billion PvP games out there and in the pipeline and let us PvE guys have a game for us for once without your cash shop PvP whores ruining everything.
If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!
Some of my worst gaming moments have been in open world pvp games cause of some childish or outright offensive players (they might not calling it childish for them its skill and an art to offend others). So i really despise PVP after all.And i dont want to invest even a second dealing with it.But i really enjoy competitive/social pve games.
That said . As mentioned above there will be different ruleset. And you can offend players as much as you want on PvP ruleset Server (i wont be there yay) and it prolly wont do you any good cause thoose having the nerves to keep playing on pvp server will group against you sooner or later. The game being designed around pve doesnt mean its a bad pvp game. Actually it might make pvp even more worthwhile. Since you have something to fight for other then just offending others by killing them without reasons.
If its your style of gaming go for it. Try it by all means. But dont tell me its a bad game if you havent tried yet.
I hope they release it with atleast one pvp server
For released games there's A Tale in the Desert (or was), Ryzom, PVE only servers in EQ1, EQ2, WOW etc (which still have consensual PVP of course)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'd would prefer having a game with a great PvE experience instead of one being mediocre regarding PvE just to add some PvP which will not be used by most of their player base anyway or be dropped very soon.
Ot they can do the H1Z1 and Fortnite trick. Develop a game with a completely different approach first and then at the very end just add some PvP BR which more or less totally annihilates the original game idea. Ok, I doubt they will do that.