The best expansion

Lord.Bachus · January 2018

seems to me that legion could as well be the best expansion they created..

Allmost all Classes are fun to play.. there are classes for all types of players
there is allways something to do with your main both for hardcore as well as more relaxed players
We are over a year in the expansion and its still fun to me..
never been subbed so long after a new expansion (i still return for every expansion)
Maybe i will even stick out to the next expansion, something i only managed with Vanilla

seems to me that the drastic changes Bliz makes every expansion finally worked out good for me
what makes a huge difference is that there was much much more progression this expansion
so much that i stuck to a single main this expansion..

with 7.3.5 the last patch of legion on the horizon, seems its finally time for some alts..

cheyane · January 2018

Really you mean this for already levelled characters playing this expansion or if I started from scratch and play from level 1 I could enjoy it .

Lord.Bachus · January 2018

cheyane said:

Really you mean this for already levelled characters playing this expansion or if I started from scratch and play from level 1 I could enjoy it .

Definately forr max level characters so far...

but with patch 7.3.5 comming later this week/month..
the leveling proces finally comes fun again
you will not be able to outlevel story content
because of new dynamic zones..

From what i have experienced om the PTR test server
this is what makes the game much much more new player friendly
altough leveling will take longer and become somewhat challenging again.

Phry · January 2018

Lord.Bachus said:

cheyane said:

Really you mean this for already levelled characters playing this expansion or if I started from scratch and play from level 1 I could enjoy it .

Definately forr max level characters so far...

but with patch 7.3.5 comming later this week/month..
the leveling proces finally comes fun again
you will not be able to outlevel story content
because of new dynamic zones..

From what i have experienced om the PTR test server
this is what makes the game much much more new player friendly
altough leveling will take longer and become somewhat challenging again.

Legion totally ruined the game for me, but i do like the sound of the more challenging levelling process that is currently on the PTR, its probably the only thing that would tempt me to play the game again.

Celcius · January 2018

I actually think Legion might be the best expansion the game has had as well. It had the most content for sure, with all the zones being used at end game and dungeons finally getting a viable endgame path. Demon hunter class was a great addition to the game, flex raiding hitting all tiers of raiding -mythic, and the story was probably the best they have told in a single expansion. I think the main issues with Legion were PvP balance, (PvP in WoW has been pretty much trash since WotLK/Cata) Legendaries, and the endless AP grind. The latter two having a massive harmful affect on alts. I think at this point they have fixed the AP stuff for the most part, you still would have to grind a ton to max it, but you get the most meaningful stuff within like...days now. The biggest problem with the AP grind though still was that it's been around for a bulk of the game's expansion. The Legendaries were probably the biggest problem though, fortunately they realize that and are scrapping them for BFA.

It is strange to me though that the biggest issues stem from them making players have more grindy type content available on such a steadily repeatable basis. It felt really bad when you missed out on doing anything early on and if you played alts it felt horrible. WoW really struggles with striking a balance between super hardcore with too much to do that it is overwhelming grindy repeatable daily type things (MoP launch anyone) and too little to do that you just login to raid weekly. Legendaries just made it so much worse with the lack of transparency around the system, them never introducing a Non-RNG way to target legendaries, and them still having legendaries for each class that were exponentially stronger then others even after the changes to them.

I think BFA looks like it is going to be a good expansion, I still have a little concern that there won't be some kind of gating / cap in place for the Heart of Azeroth, though. Thing is, that system will be innately capped since once you unlock the talents on the amulet for that specific tier, you never have to do it again for that tier. So I guess the worst case scenario is that the Heart itself gains continued stats after unlocking all the talents through ilvl...which wouldn't be so bad.

cheyane · January 2018

Lord.Bachus said:

cheyane said:

Really you mean this for already levelled characters playing this expansion or if I started from scratch and play from level 1 I could enjoy it .

Definately forr max level characters so far...

but with patch 7.3.5 comming later this week/month..
the leveling proces finally comes fun again
you will not be able to outlevel story content
because of new dynamic zones..

From what i have experienced om the PTR test server
this is what makes the game much much more new player friendly
altough leveling will take longer and become somewhat challenging again.

Yes this was one of the reasons the game was lousy and I hated not being able to take certain quests because I was lower than the level I should be.

What I really want is that they do not place players with heirlooms with players who do not have them in dungeons. I want dungeons to be fun again.

k61977 · January 2018

For me legion is to easy to be the best xpac. I mean I can solo heroics after only being max level for a couple hours. I do enjoy legion, but I play it as a solo player game now, cause I don't raid anymore. There isn't anything I can't do other than raid as a solo player. Hell I was even downing world bosses solo before they opened up argus. Even when i qued from group instances I would normally just tell the healer to go dps because I could self heal my way through the instances. Where is the challenge, mythic instances are not even really a challenge anymore either, unless you are going to do raids at mythic level but I got tired of raiding to be honest.

For me personally the best xpac that they ever made was BC, followed closely by Wrath. I mean the fel reaver in hellfire was on the scope of the original Hogger confrontations. It came up and just wiped out groups from no where. That xpac was added two races and new starting zones to the original game. It even added flying which to be honest wasn't the best thing to happen to the game. You couldn't go out and round up the entire zone and just AOE it down. It still had uses for utility builds or classes which do not exist anymore because now it is just a aoe dps race no matter what you are doing. Hell just the story and lore of BC was great.

Well everyone has a favorite this is mine though.

Celcius · January 2018

cheyane said:

Lord.Bachus said:

cheyane said:

Really you mean this for already levelled characters playing this expansion or if I started from scratch and play from level 1 I could enjoy it .

Definately forr max level characters so far...

but with patch 7.3.5 comming later this week/month..
the leveling proces finally comes fun again
you will not be able to outlevel story content
because of new dynamic zones..

From what i have experienced om the PTR test server
this is what makes the game much much more new player friendly
altough leveling will take longer and become somewhat challenging again.

Yes this was one of the reasons the game was lousy and I hated not being able to take certain quests because I was lower than the level I should be.

What I really want is that they do not place players with heirlooms with players who do not have them in dungeons. I want dungeons to be fun again.

What makes me sad is that even though it will still be insanely fast at 60% slower in the 1-60 areas (which in WoW terms, is not much slower, you can do that in less then like 10-12 hours probably without full hierlooms) there are some people who are still upset about it. I mean honestly, if you are someone who doesn't like leveling that much.....why would you care anyways, you won't be leveling anything! Also, those guys have had like literally half a decade to level to 60 at the current rates so they can gtfo with that non-sense. (And *ahem* 14 years) Leveling 1-60 feels so bad that people level WITHOUT hierlooms just because it feels so awful sometimes. You out level every single zone, even with only a couple of hierloom pieces. Don't dare que for a dungeon either in like the 1-40 range, you will come out having to run for 2 zones to get to the next level appropriate one ;P

Aethaeryn · January 2018

The new leveling experience would be what I am looking for. It makes the world and story meaningful if you aren't missing 80% of the content along the way and are still able to level. This is why I have been enjoying ESO this past week. I didn't think I would like that change because my level wouldn't match content. . but now I just don't pay attention to my level. It is very nice

someforumguy · January 2018

I hate every expansion that uses toxic waste green fel

I never liked the Chaos legion. They are like this lame Warhammer knock off (Chaos) with some boring toxic waste added, showing a severe lack of imagination.

Legion is again a typical themepark, with regions neatly divided like pies from a pizza. And annoying gated content for crafting. I never understand why they try to make you play their way. Then there is this weapon grind, something you know will be obsolete in the next ep.

But overall, I hate endgame in WoW, because it is so ridiculously over the top with skyscraper sized end bosses that are dumb as fuck and make you jump through hoops to defeat them. The only real challenge here is trying to lead a raid, because it is like trying to lead a herd of cats. But you don't even need the game for this.

But then I am biased. I am completely done with the never ending nerf cycles and the way they make content obsolete with each ep. And 80% of content is simply repeating the same thing over and over to get some faction rep. Faction rep that will become meaningless in next ep.

Although I have to admit that Northrend and Pandaria both look great. Just to bad that the game is kind of meh.

Celcius · January 2018

someforumguy said:

I hate every expansion that uses toxic waste green fel I never liked the Chaos legion. They are like this lame Warhammer knock off (Chaos) with some boring toxic waste added, showing a severe lack of imagination.

Legion is again a typical themepark, with regions neatly divided like pies from a pizza. And annoying gated content for crafting. I never understand why they try to make you play their way. Then there is this weapon grind, something you know will be obsolete in the next ep.

But overall, I hate endgame in WoW, because it is so ridiculously over the top with skyscraper sized end bosses that are dumb as fuck and make you jump through hoops to defeat them. The only real challenge here is trying to lead a raid, because it is like trying to lead a herd of cats. But you don't even need the game for this.

But then I am biased. I am completely done with the never ending nerf cycles and the way they make content obsolete with each ep. And 80% of content is simply repeating the same thing over and over to get some faction rep. Faction rep that will become meaningless in next ep.

Although I have to admit that Northrend and Pandaria both look great. Just to bad that the game is kind of meh.

Sounds to me like you just don't like theme park games as pretty much everything you listed is part of them. I mean, WoW has literally always been a waste of time a long with every other MMO in history that increases level caps if you don't like the way gear from the previous expansion becomes obsolete. It is ok to not like it though :P I mean, personally I only enjoy wow for about a month or so maybe twice per expansion, and would love a great sandbox game to come out! Too bad those are pretty much non existant, short of the few P2W ones coming from the East.

In regards to the Legion being a Warhammer knockoff, I mean sure, Warhammer was also a knockoff of stuff like LotR and D&D. It is not really a big deal. Games are always taking ideas and concepts from other games / twisting them a bit to suite their own needs. That is pretty much how game development works. If we didn't have games that took ideas from other games, we wouldn't get many games. That is like the people who are like OMG WOW CLONE!!! I remember the days of OMG EVERQUEST CLONE!! Now its OMG OVERWATCH CLONE! ect lol....always amuses me when people talk that way about stuff..

hallucigenocide · January 2018

nothing beats stepping through the dark portal for the first time. i'm not really feeling Legion. the class quests/mounts was a good addition and some of the class changes.(really liked survival hunter) but the zones and dungeons/raids do nothing for me. and pvp is in the worst state it's ever been.

some-clueless-guy · January 2018

Aside from Wrath, when I didn't play at all because I was otherwise occupied, Legion is the Expansion I stayed subbed for the least. Everyone has different tastes and for me this one, even with most of my old guild mates there to have fun with, was top quality technically but bottom quality enjoyment-wise.

someforumguy · January 2018

Celcius said:

someforumguy said:

I hate every expansion that uses toxic waste green fel I never liked the Chaos legion. They are like this lame Warhammer knock off (Chaos) with some boring toxic waste added, showing a severe lack of imagination.

Legion is again a typical themepark, with regions neatly divided like pies from a pizza. And annoying gated content for crafting. I never understand why they try to make you play their way. Then there is this weapon grind, something you know will be obsolete in the next ep.

But overall, I hate endgame in WoW, because it is so ridiculously over the top with skyscraper sized end bosses that are dumb as fuck and make you jump through hoops to defeat them. The only real challenge here is trying to lead a raid, because it is like trying to lead a herd of cats. But you don't even need the game for this.

But then I am biased. I am completely done with the never ending nerf cycles and the way they make content obsolete with each ep. And 80% of content is simply repeating the same thing over and over to get some faction rep. Faction rep that will become meaningless in next ep.

Although I have to admit that Northrend and Pandaria both look great. Just to bad that the game is kind of meh.

Sounds to me like you just don't like theme park games as pretty much everything you listed is part of them. I mean, WoW has literally always been a waste of time a long with every other MMO in history that increases level caps if you don't like the way gear from the previous expansion becomes obsolete. It is ok to not like it though :P I mean, personally I only enjoy wow for about a month or so maybe twice per expansion, and would love a great sandbox game to come out! Too bad those are pretty much non existant, short of the few P2W ones coming from the East.

In regards to the Legion being a Warhammer knockoff, I mean sure, Warhammer was also a knockoff of stuff like LotR and D&D. It is not really a big deal. Games are always taking ideas and concepts from other games / twisting them a bit to suite their own needs. That is pretty much how game development works. If we didn't have games that took ideas from other games, we wouldn't get many games. That is like the people who are like OMG WOW CLONE!!! I remember the days of OMG EVERQUEST CLONE!! Now its OMG OVERWATCH CLONE! ect lol....always amuses me when people talk that way about stuff..

Not Legion (Legion had a few interesting bits, like the way levels works) or WoW, but Chaos Legion. The main baddies in WoW, you know. I am talking about that weird lore that seems to consist of borrowed scraps from other IP's.
Chaos in Warhammer was not a knock off from LotR/D&D.
And Warhammer is very different from D&D. Better yet, you can use Warhammer for D&D. You can also use LotR or WoW for D&D. D&D is mainly a set of game rules that can be applied to any ip.

Also, having the same races does not make it a knock off, this is not what I meant. Otherwise any game with humans would be a knock off.

And as for themeparks in general. ESO is a themepark MMO but because of how levelling works now in that game, it doesnt just make older content obsolete. Same goes for SWTOR. It is one of the weakest points of WoW imo.

As a sidenote : I also thought going through that portal the first time was great. The lead up was awesome. Just too bad it was to fight the chaos legion

Chaos legion is like zombies to me. Just meh.

cheyane · January 2018

7.3.5 will make levelling interesting again okay because after dumping Project 1999 over J-Boots I tried to go back to the private server of WoW but I was not keen on the previous drama and possibility it might end the server and my hard work.

So I am going to try this new patch and start a priest from scratch. I suppose I won't get to buy a single resource or recipe but you know if I can actually do quests without they being trivial and actually find it fun I may actually play. I do however enjoy dungeons and that experience has always made me quit every WoW attempt I have made while trying to come back to play again.

DarkSpearTriant · January 2018

WoW has finally become a polished diamond. It's the only game I've played consistently the past 7 years.

Lord.Bachus · January 2018

DarkSpearTriant said:

WoW has finally become a polished diamond. It's the only game I've played consistently the past 7 years.

Haha..

so what will they make from that polished diamond in the next expansion?
where everything will get changed and overhauled again wow style

i still think there is quite some things they could change for the better
- legendaries not being fully RNG dpendant
- the AA system (artifact points) being less linear, and not part of a weapon
and more...

_———_

and for the new leveling process...
next to the content...
they also need to take on the low levels that are incredibly dull with almost no spells
also making some classes unplayable because they gettheir major skills level 60+

Octagon7711 · January 2018

With Legion I did level up a lot of alts I had previously left at various levels.

Celcius · January 2018

someforumguy said:

Celcius said:

someforumguy said:

I hate every expansion that uses toxic waste green fel I never liked the Chaos legion. They are like this lame Warhammer knock off (Chaos) with some boring toxic waste added, showing a severe lack of imagination.

Legion is again a typical themepark, with regions neatly divided like pies from a pizza. And annoying gated content for crafting. I never understand why they try to make you play their way. Then there is this weapon grind, something you know will be obsolete in the next ep.

But overall, I hate endgame in WoW, because it is so ridiculously over the top with skyscraper sized end bosses that are dumb as fuck and make you jump through hoops to defeat them. The only real challenge here is trying to lead a raid, because it is like trying to lead a herd of cats. But you don't even need the game for this.

But then I am biased. I am completely done with the never ending nerf cycles and the way they make content obsolete with each ep. And 80% of content is simply repeating the same thing over and over to get some faction rep. Faction rep that will become meaningless in next ep.

Although I have to admit that Northrend and Pandaria both look great. Just to bad that the game is kind of meh.

Sounds to me like you just don't like theme park games as pretty much everything you listed is part of them. I mean, WoW has literally always been a waste of time a long with every other MMO in history that increases level caps if you don't like the way gear from the previous expansion becomes obsolete. It is ok to not like it though :P I mean, personally I only enjoy wow for about a month or so maybe twice per expansion, and would love a great sandbox game to come out! Too bad those are pretty much non existant, short of the few P2W ones coming from the East.

In regards to the Legion being a Warhammer knockoff, I mean sure, Warhammer was also a knockoff of stuff like LotR and D&D. It is not really a big deal. Games are always taking ideas and concepts from other games / twisting them a bit to suite their own needs. That is pretty much how game development works. If we didn't have games that took ideas from other games, we wouldn't get many games. That is like the people who are like OMG WOW CLONE!!! I remember the days of OMG EVERQUEST CLONE!! Now its OMG OVERWATCH CLONE! ect lol....always amuses me when people talk that way about stuff..

Not Legion (Legion had a few interesting bits, like the way levels works) or WoW, but Chaos Legion. The main baddies in WoW, you know. I am talking about that weird lore that seems to consist of borrowed scraps from other IP's.
Chaos in Warhammer was not a knock off from LotR/D&D.
And Warhammer is very different from D&D. Better yet, you can use Warhammer for D&D. You can also use LotR or WoW for D&D. D&D is mainly a set of game rules that can be applied to any ip.

Also, having the same races does not make it a knock off, this is not what I meant. Otherwise any game with humans would be a knock off.

And as for themeparks in general. ESO is a themepark MMO but because of how levelling works now in that game, it doesnt just make older content obsolete. Same goes for SWTOR. It is one of the weakest points of WoW imo.

As a sidenote : I also thought going through that portal the first time was great. The lead up was awesome. Just too bad it was to fight the chaos legion Chaos legion is like zombies to me. Just meh.

So what you are saying is that the Chaos Legion was not ripping off of things in other games, it was inspired by them....just like how the Legion in WoW was likely inspired by them too ;P Just like how Warhammer was inspired by D&D...IT IS OKAY to have ideas from other places. That is literally how some of the best things are made. There is nothing wrong with it. D&D was originally a fantasy RPG and the basis for every fantasy RPG to date.

Again, you sound like one of those people shouting OMG CLONE OMG CLONE!!! WoW itself is a clone, who cares? It is still the most successful MMO out there and has been since it's release. Clearly it does not matter if it is a "clone" or not. Overwatch, another game that is heavily inspired by Team Fortress 2, a "clone" likely in your eyes, is another game that has absolutely shattered the sound barrier in terms of success. League of legends, Hearthstone, DOTA2,ect,ect. Funny, the most successful games are all the ones you would claim are clones of each other.

I personally don't consider ESO a Themepark as it doesn't have vertical progression past a point, much like GW2 doesn't. You can cap all your stuff in ESO pretty easily (ie: gear takes about 200k gold to cap, short of a couple of accessories which cost more, 200k gold you can get in a few days-a week), I should have phrase that as "any MMO themepark with vertical progression" which still applies to almost all of them. The thing about those 2 games is that since they cap vertical progression; they are extremely casual games. There are still more people who want vertical progression.

Your logic does apply to ESO though. ESO keeps coming out with new sets that are better then old sets, so you are still replacing gear. So much like WoW, I guess it is pointless to ever acquire gear or even play the game because it will be worthless eventually :P

You are also talking about the legion, which let's be fair, is one of the rarer fantasy tropes in terms of the way they look; like it is a super common theme in RPGs. Yet you are playing ESO, a game that has almost nothing original thematically in the whole game and takes Tolkien's tropes to the extreme.

MrMelGibson · January 2018

cheyane said:

7.3.5 will make levelling interesting again okay because after dumping Project 1999 over J-Boots I tried to go back to the private server of WoW but I was not keen on the previous drama and possibility it might end the server and my hard work.

So I am going to try this new patch and start a priest from scratch. I suppose I won't get to buy a single resource or recipe but you know if I can actually do quests without they being trivial and actually find it fun I may actually play. I do however enjoy dungeons and that experience has always made me quit every WoW attempt I have made while trying to come back to play again.

With duel specs, you can level as shadow and switch to your flavor of healer when running dungeons etc. I always did the same with my prot pally. Every expansion I switch to Ret when leveling.

laserit · January 2018

I really liked the world design of Wrath but Wrath is when they really started dumbing down 0-60

Cataclysm... well lets just say it was a cataclysm, for me anyway

Horusra · January 2018

Only expansion I leveled 48 characters to max level and then started working my way through upgrading them....not even close to getting them all ilvl'ed up.

MrMelGibson · January 2018

Wraith is my favorite. I loved that there were 4 tank options for endgame. Both previous expansions had pretty set standards of what classes tanked and healed. You were forced into specific classes if you wanted to fill a role like MT/OT for a raiding guild. This was especially true in Vanilla.

Wraith also introduced Heroic and regular versions of raids. Also most raids had 10/25 options added. Before it was either one or the other. These changes might not seem like a big deal to some. For me as a GM of a raiding guild, this gave me a lot more options when a raid night had too many un/excused absences. Also gave me new ways to try people out without locking them into our 25 man raid save.

There are a lot more things but I'll end on the Death Knight. Our first new class. What an interesting and difficult class to play masterfully in that expansion.

BC is a close second. It was a really fun expansion.

Myrdynn · January 2018

The best ERA in WOW was from the launch of The Burning Crusade, til the End of Lich King. Those were some epic times, the downfall started (even though I really enjoyed the fights) with the Tournament Raid in WOTLK

when you follow it up with Cataclysm, Panda Land, Draenor (I enjoyed til they nerfed Ashram), I couldn't even bother with Legion

SavageHorizon · January 2018

Hasn't been a best expansion because every expansion has deviated more and more from what the original game was.

Nope the game got worst from the very first expansion but we didn't see it at the time. Knowing how the game is now would anyone want to go the same route, I think not imo.

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The best expansion

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The best expansion

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"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey