The % does not matter here .. Why do you care if this is what that community wants to support .. Why do you fucking care.. If they donate 10% 50% .. 80% .. who cares its there fucking money its there interest ..
How is it hurting you ..
Or anyone else ........... why does it bother you ... there should be no reason
The % matters a lot.
But the real question is: How is this hurting YOU?
Why does it bother you what we think? Why does it bother you to a degree that you are talking like a Stop and Go sign? There should be no reason.
It should not bother you or anyone else what other people do with there money .. The pissing about it is a bad petty look .............
but way to not answer ...
Why does it bother you what they do with there money ?
The % does not matter here .. Why do you care if this is what that community wants to support .. Why do you fucking care.. If they donate 10% 50% .. 80% .. who cares its there fucking money its there interest ..
How is it hurting you ..
Or anyone else ........... why does it bother you ... there should be no reason
The % matters a lot.
But the real question is: How is this hurting YOU?
Why does it bother you what we think? Why does it bother you to a degree that you are talking like a Stop and Go sign? There should be no reason.
It should not bother you or anyone else what other people do with there money .. The pissing about it is a bad petty look .............
but way to not answer ...
Why does it bother you what they do with there money ?
Im trying to understand the problem with this , there are perfectly within there rights to sell there product for as long as they want for however much they want ..
This is what most business do that have set out to make money ..
It is also perfectly within your right to not purchase ..
But to post and be bothered by a company advertising and selling there product .. is just wrong...
This is America last i checked ..
A lot of people complain about companies they don't like. Some even put up websites named, Ihatexyzcompany.com, all they do is discuss why they hate the company. They may hate the way they do business, or their ethical practices. So, complaining about a company is nothing new.
Good thing no one ever complains about companies like EA, Ubisoft, or Zenimax, they might be confused as to being haters or something.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The % does not matter here .. Why do you care if this is what that community wants to support .. Why do you fucking care.. If they donate 10% 50% .. 80% .. who cares its there fucking money its there interest ..
How is it hurting you ..
Or anyone else ........... why does it bother you ... there should be no reason
The % matters a lot.
But the real question is: How is this hurting YOU?
Why does it bother you what we think? Why does it bother you to a degree that you are talking like a Stop and Go sign? There should be no reason.
It should not bother you or anyone else what other people do with there money .. The pissing about it is a bad petty look .............
but way to not answer ...
Why does it bother you what they do with there money ?
an answer would be great ...
Sure I will answer you as soon as you answer me.
We can keep going all day.
Very good ,
you have NO reason .. thats why you cant answer..
I think people who bitch about how others spend there money are petty chidish fools , who sound ridiculous ,, Is it just jeaolousy for these people .. I dont know .. There is noe reason for anyone to care how they spend there money even if 0% went to charity ...
Im trying to understand the problem with this , there are perfectly within there rights to sell there product for as long as they want for however much they want ..
This is what most business do that have set out to make money ..
It is also perfectly within your right to not purchase ..
But to post and be bothered by a company advertising and selling there product .. is just wrong...
This is America last i checked ..
A lot of people complain about companies they don't like. Some even put up websites named, Ihatexyzcompany.com, all they do is discuss why they hate the company. They may hate the way they do business, or their ethical practices. So, complaining about a company is nothing new.
Good thing no one ever complains about companies like EA, Ubisoft, or Zenimax, they might be confused as to being haters or something.
Look Kyleran its not complaining in a general sense abut a company .. what the root of the complaint is here is What complete strangers are spending there money on .. And its just odd..
The company in question here is providing a service to there consumers ... that ... here it comes .. that those consumers want and support ...It does not affect anyone else , it does not hurt anyone ..Well the only other people it directly affects are that receive thru the charities ...
Its people bitching for the sake of bitching ...There really is no sane reason this should effect or bother anyone
SOTA and Portalarium have enough things that one can complain about .. this is complaelty unfounded and rooted in some weird jealous/hateful nerdrage
The % does not matter here .. Why do you care if this is what that community wants to support .. Why do you fucking care.. If they donate 10% 50% .. 80% .. who cares its there fucking money its there interest ..
How is it hurting you ..
Or anyone else ........... why does it bother you ... there should be no reason
The % matters a lot.
But the real question is: How is this hurting YOU?
Why does it bother you what we think? Why does it bother you to a degree that you are talking like a Stop and Go sign? There should be no reason.
It should not bother you or anyone else what other people do with there money .. The pissing about it is a bad petty look .............
but way to not answer ...
Why does it bother you what they do with there money ?
an answer would be great ...
Sure I will answer you as soon as you answer me.
We can keep going all day.
Very good ,
you have NO reason .. thats why you cant answer..
I think people who bitch about how others spend there money are petty chidish fools , who sound ridiculous ,, Is it just jeaolousy for these people .. I dont know .. There is noe reason for anyone to care how they spend there money even if 0% went to charity ...
Absolutely correct, as long as the people collecting the money aren't advertising it as beneficial to a charity, then it very much matters, especially when it's mostly a cause related marketing gimmick.
Not to say all cause related marketing is bad, many charities receive considerable revenues from such efforts, but there are good and bad practices out there.
But they are marketing gimmicks, which consumers are not unaware of,
"After all, companies don’t do cause marketing solely to give, but also
to get more of your business. Surveys show that almost 90 percent of
consumers say that given similar price and quality, they’re likely to
switch to a brand associated with a good cause."
Portalarium raises a red flag in two ways with regards to how much as a percentage of total brought in actually goes to charity,
"Others violate the BBB’s guidelines by sending consumers to a website
where it is difficult to find the disclosure or use vague language such
as “net proceeds” or “some of our profits.” “How is the consumer
supposed to know what ‘net proceeds’ means?” Weiner said."
So yeah, if someone is fine buying something and it makes them feel good because " a portion" goes to charity great, but it should not be painted as some magnanimous effort, it's strictly a marketing gimmick used to pump up sales.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The % does not matter here .. Why do you care if this is what that community wants to support .. Why do you fucking care.. If they donate 10% 50% .. 80% .. who cares its there fucking money its there interest ..
How is it hurting you ..
Or anyone else ........... why does it bother you ... there should be no reason
The % matters a lot.
But the real question is: How is this hurting YOU?
Why does it bother you what we think? Why does it bother you to a degree that you are talking like a Stop and Go sign? There should be no reason.
It should not bother you or anyone else what other people do with there money .. The pissing about it is a bad petty look .............
but way to not answer ...
Why does it bother you what they do with there money ?
an answer would be great ...
Sure I will answer you as soon as you answer me.
We can keep going all day.
Very good ,
you have NO reason .. thats why you cant answer..
I think people who bitch about how others spend there money are petty chidish fools , who sound ridiculous ,, Is it just jeaolousy for these people .. I dont know .. There is noe reason for anyone to care how they spend there money even if 0% went to charity ...
Absolutely correct, as long as the people collecting the money aren't advertising it as beneficial to a charity, then it very much matters, especially when it's mostly a cause related marketing gimmick.
Not to say all cause related marketing is bad, many charities receive considerable revenues from such efforts, but there are good and bad practices out there.
But they are marketing gimmicks, which consumers are not unaware of,
"After all, companies don’t do cause marketing solely to give, but also
to get more of your business. Surveys show that almost 90 percent of
consumers say that given similar price and quality, they’re likely to
switch to a brand associated with a good cause."
Portalarium raises a red flag in two ways with regards to how much as a percentage of total brought in actually goes to charity,
"Others violate the BBB’s guidelines by sending consumers to a website
where it is difficult to find the disclosure or use vague language such
as “net proceeds” or “some of our profits.” “How is the consumer
supposed to know what ‘net proceeds’ means?” Weiner said."
So yeah, if someone is fine buying something and it makes them feel good because " a portion" goes to charity great, but it should not be painted as some magnanimous effort, it's strictly a marketing gimmick used to pump up sales.
They dont have to give any to charity .. Lets assume they dont ..
And there community supports and still wants these events to raise 100% money for there .. game ...
Why care ..
And everything is right there and very clear where the money goes they have hidden nothing ...
It just blows my mind whenever i see people bitching how others spend there ..
We arent going to make any ground here , so im gonna be done with it .. Its there game, its there community ,its there choice, its there money .....
The % does not matter here .. Why do you care if this is what that community wants to support .. Why do you fucking care.. If they donate 10% 50% .. 80% .. who cares its there fucking money its there interest ..
How is it hurting you ..
Or anyone else ........... why does it bother you ... there should be no reason
The % matters a lot.
But the real question is: How is this hurting YOU?
Why does it bother you what we think? Why does it bother you to a degree that you are talking like a Stop and Go sign? There should be no reason.
It should not bother you or anyone else what other people do with there money .. The pissing about it is a bad petty look .............
but way to not answer ...
Why does it bother you what they do with there money ?
an answer would be great ...
Sure I will answer you as soon as you answer me.
We can keep going all day.
Very good ,
you have NO reason .. thats why you cant answer..
I think people who bitch about how others spend there money are petty chidish fools , who sound ridiculous ,, Is it just jeaolousy for these people .. I dont know .. There is noe reason for anyone to care how they spend there money even if 0% went to charity ...
I have no reason? Hmm let's see.
I see a lot of money getting pulled in by this project while the game itself is below average.
And I see loads of projects like this built on mediocrity and a mix of false promises and glory from a long gone past.
So I ask myself: Why should anyone make a good game anymore when you earn money by making bad games?
And I also ask myself why would you defend bad games like this. Let me finish this by telling you that your post made you sound very very childish.
The % does not matter here .. Why do you care if this is what that community wants to support .. Why do you fucking care.. If they donate 10% 50% .. 80% .. who cares its there fucking money its there interest ..
How is it hurting you ..
Or anyone else ........... why does it bother you ... there should be no reason
The % matters a lot.
But the real question is: How is this hurting YOU?
Why does it bother you what we think? Why does it bother you to a degree that you are talking like a Stop and Go sign? There should be no reason.
It should not bother you or anyone else what other people do with there money .. The pissing about it is a bad petty look .............
but way to not answer ...
Why does it bother you what they do with there money ?
an answer would be great ...
Sure I will answer you as soon as you answer me.
We can keep going all day.
Very good ,
you have NO reason .. thats why you cant answer..
I think people who bitch about how others spend there money are petty chidish fools , who sound ridiculous ,, Is it just jeaolousy for these people .. I dont know .. There is noe reason for anyone to care how they spend there money even if 0% went to charity ...
I have no reason? Hmm let's see.
I see a lot of money getting pulled in by this project while the game itself is below average.
And I see loads of projects like this built on mediocrity and a mix of false promises and glory from a long gone past.
So I ask myself: Why should anyone make a good game anymore when you earn money by making bad games?
And I also ask myself why would you defend bad games like this. Let me finish this by telling you that your post made you sound very very childish.
Your moving goal posts , that was not the discussion wether SOTA was bad or good .. this discussion was around the Marathons that the " Community" wants and supports that provide .. 1. Money for the game 2. cosmetic items for the players 3. charity fund
But if that is your beef its something all together differnet , and ill say this ..
as i said in my very first response in this thread ..
Im trying to understand the problem with this , there are perfectly
within there rights to sell there product for as long as they want for
however much they want ..
This is what most business do that have set out to make money ..
It is also perfectly within your right to not purchase ..
But to post and be bothered by a company advertising and selling there product .. is just wrong...
This is America last i checked ..
What other companies dont you like .. are you activley camping out at there stores .. are you posting on WalMart forums ...?
If Portalarium wants to sell shit sandwiches and people buy them .. God Bless them..
Its what this country was built on ..
What business do you know of that ..Throws there hands in the air " Ok people we have made enough money , we are done here , everyone go home"
The % does not matter here .. Why do you care if this is what that community wants to support .. Why do you fucking care.. If they donate 10% 50% .. 80% .. who cares its there fucking money its there interest ..
How is it hurting you ..
Or anyone else ........... why does it bother you ... there should be no reason
The % matters a lot.
But the real question is: How is this hurting YOU?
Why does it bother you what we think? Why does it bother you to a degree that you are talking like a Stop and Go sign? There should be no reason.
It should not bother you or anyone else what other people do with there money .. The pissing about it is a bad petty look .............
but way to not answer ...
Why does it bother you what they do with there money ?
an answer would be great ...
Sure I will answer you as soon as you answer me.
We can keep going all day.
Very good ,
you have NO reason .. thats why you cant answer..
I think people who bitch about how others spend there money are petty chidish fools , who sound ridiculous ,, Is it just jeaolousy for these people .. I dont know .. There is noe reason for anyone to care how they spend there money even if 0% went to charity ...
Absolutely correct, as long as the people collecting the money aren't advertising it as beneficial to a charity, then it very much matters, especially when it's mostly a cause related marketing gimmick.
Not to say all cause related marketing is bad, many charities receive considerable revenues from such efforts, but there are good and bad practices out there.
But they are marketing gimmicks, which consumers are not unaware of,
"After all, companies don’t do cause marketing solely to give, but also
to get more of your business. Surveys show that almost 90 percent of
consumers say that given similar price and quality, they’re likely to
switch to a brand associated with a good cause."
Portalarium raises a red flag in two ways with regards to how much as a percentage of total brought in actually goes to charity,
"Others violate the BBB’s guidelines by sending consumers to a website
where it is difficult to find the disclosure or use vague language such
as “net proceeds” or “some of our profits.” “How is the consumer
supposed to know what ‘net proceeds’ means?” Weiner said."
So yeah, if someone is fine buying something and it makes them feel good because " a portion" goes to charity great, but it should not be painted as some magnanimous effort, it's strictly a marketing gimmick used to pump up sales.
They dont have to give any to charity .. Lets assume they dont ..
And there community supports and still wants these events to raise 100% money for there .. game ...
Why care ..
And everything is right there and very clear where the money goes they have hidden nothing ...
It just blows my mind whenever i see people bitching how others spend there ..
We arent going to make any ground here , so im gonna be done with it .. Its there game, its there community ,its there choice, its there money .....
I doubt there's a lot of clarity where the $17M or so reportedly raised has actually been spent, but crowd funded efforts are under no obligation to make such an accounting.
There are rules about charitable contributions, and they are publishing how much they've given to various organizations, regardless what percentage of the "net proceeds" were.
Nor do I care if they give a cent to charity, but I do know when they decide to run campaigns like this, it's a marketing gimmick first and foremost, unless near 100% of the proceeds are given to charity.
I don't care if people give money to games, done it myself once or twice, may do so real soon again, but I do question the wisdom as development continues to drag out with no real end in sight, such as in the case of SC, CU or some others.
This one is just about "launched", and if people want to keep "giving" going forward, have at it, doesn't matter to me a wit.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The % does not matter here .. Why do you care if this is what that community wants to support .. Why do you fucking care.. If they donate 10% 50% .. 80% .. who cares its there fucking money its there interest ..
How is it hurting you ..
Or anyone else ........... why does it bother you ... there should be no reason
The % matters a lot.
But the real question is: How is this hurting YOU?
Why does it bother you what we think? Why does it bother you to a degree that you are talking like a Stop and Go sign? There should be no reason.
It should not bother you or anyone else what other people do with there money .. The pissing about it is a bad petty look .............
but way to not answer ...
Why does it bother you what they do with there money ?
an answer would be great ...
Sure I will answer you as soon as you answer me.
We can keep going all day.
Very good ,
you have NO reason .. thats why you cant answer..
I think people who bitch about how others spend there money are petty chidish fools , who sound ridiculous ,, Is it just jeaolousy for these people .. I dont know .. There is noe reason for anyone to care how they spend there money even if 0% went to charity ...
Absolutely correct, as long as the people collecting the money aren't advertising it as beneficial to a charity, then it very much matters, especially when it's mostly a cause related marketing gimmick.
Not to say all cause related marketing is bad, many charities receive considerable revenues from such efforts, but there are good and bad practices out there.
But they are marketing gimmicks, which consumers are not unaware of,
"After all, companies don’t do cause marketing solely to give, but also
to get more of your business. Surveys show that almost 90 percent of
consumers say that given similar price and quality, they’re likely to
switch to a brand associated with a good cause."
Portalarium raises a red flag in two ways with regards to how much as a percentage of total brought in actually goes to charity,
"Others violate the BBB’s guidelines by sending consumers to a website
where it is difficult to find the disclosure or use vague language such
as “net proceeds” or “some of our profits.” “How is the consumer
supposed to know what ‘net proceeds’ means?” Weiner said."
So yeah, if someone is fine buying something and it makes them feel good because " a portion" goes to charity great, but it should not be painted as some magnanimous effort, it's strictly a marketing gimmick used to pump up sales.
They dont have to give any to charity .. Lets assume they dont ..
And there community supports and still wants these events to raise 100% money for there .. game ...
Why care ..
And everything is right there and very clear where the money goes they have hidden nothing ...
It just blows my mind whenever i see people bitching how others spend there ..
We arent going to make any ground here , so im gonna be done with it .. Its there game, its there community ,its there choice, its there money .....
I doubt there's a lot of clarity where the $17M or so reportedly raised has actually been spent, but crowd funded efforts are under no obligation to make such an accounting.
There are rules about charitable contributions, and they are publishing how much they've given to various organizations, regardless what percentage of the "net proceeds" were.
Nor do I care if they give a cent to charity, but I do know when they decide to run campaigns like this, it's a marketing gimmick first and foremost, unless near 100% of the proceeds are given to charity.
I don't care if people give money to games, done it myself once or twice, may do so real soon again, but I do question the wisdom as development continues to drag out with no real end in sight, such as in the case of SC, CU or some others.
This one is just about "launched", and if people want to keep "giving" going forward, have at it, doesn't matter to me a wit.
Well we agree there Klyeran , thats my entire point .. Dont supoport it .. I dont
Doesnt matter a wit to me
But there are people who like it and support it .. or guess what ... It would disapear
What i dont like , and this thread was going down that road is when people start pissing about how others spend there money , the premise would include all of us at some point/degree or another .. Its nobodies business how Kyleran wants to spend his money , wether its supporting SOTA or buying a new rifle to hunt deer or giving it to the corner crack head..
If the SOTA community wants to continue forward with these events its there business,there money , there game ....The rest of us have a choice to join it or not .. But to sit here pissin and moaning how other people ( and that all this was about ) choose to spend there money is really a dead end and waste of time
Why would anyone care how others spend their money, it is not about that.
For me this is about the unethical misuse of telethons. Telethons are fundraising events designed to raise money for charitable and other worthy causes.
You may think it is genius that SOTA abused the rules on Telethons to give the appearance of generosity, others find this type promotion of a private business a code of ethics breach. I find nothing humorous about this, nor would I bring this up just for the sake of hurting a business.
If Portalarium wants to sell shit sandwiches and people buy them .. God Bless them..
Its what this country was built on ..
Well I am European and your post just gave me a bad aftertaste about American ethics.
Agree.
If Portalarium really cared about the charity targets they would of course give all charity raised to them.
People can do whatever they want with their money (within laws) but it need to be said if the so called charity event in fact is just another marketing trick to raise money to the game.
On top of that, every time Portalarium gets caught twisting promises, or just plain making awful business/game decisions and people speak up, the complainers are labeled Trolls who are out to hurt the game. As has happened in this thread already.
Here's an answer for why you shouldcare where people spend their money;
Because you don't have the right to buy your way to nullifying or outright destroying the wishes of others, especially when they have pre-purchased something on the assumption it was supposed to be securely something else.
This should be common sense, but it's something severly lacking in Shroud's defender's case... if I have the money to pay someone to burn your house down because I want to be able to buy the land up cheaply once you're driven off it, that is obviously morally and legally wrong.
If I pay your landlord to just "coincidentally" look for a new tenant, that is still wrong.
In Shroud's case, they are not just besmirching the good name of charity with these actively deceptive practices (they keep the majority of the money) but the spending of the community is only done with the aim of furthering the development along the lines of purchasing rares to re-sell for real money later.
But the game at Kickstarter was specifically said to be a Buy to Own game with NO microtransactions. That's what it was funded as. Just because Portalarium were liars, and the RMT community are prepared to warp the development, doesn't make it right.
Nor does it mean people should shut up about not being given the thing THEY paid for.
The % does not matter here .. Why do you care if this is what that community wants to support .. Why do you fucking care.. If they donate 10% 50% .. 80% .. who cares its there fucking money its there interest ..
How is it hurting you ..
Or anyone else ........... why does it bother you ... there should be no reason
The % matters a lot.
But the real question is: How is this hurting YOU?
Why does it bother you what we think? Why does it bother you to a degree that you are talking like a Stop and Go sign? There should be no reason.
It should not bother you or anyone else what other people do with there money .. The pissing about it is a bad petty look .............
but way to not answer ...
Why does it bother you what they do with there money ?
an answer would be great ...
Sure I will answer you as soon as you answer me.
We can keep going all day.
Very good ,
you have NO reason .. thats why you cant answer..
I think people who bitch about how others spend there money are petty chidish fools , who sound ridiculous ,, Is it just jeaolousy for these people .. I dont know .. There is noe reason for anyone to care how they spend there money even if 0% went to charity ...
I have no reason? Hmm let's see.
I see a lot of money getting pulled in by this project while the game itself is below average.
And I see loads of projects like this built on mediocrity and a mix of false promises and glory from a long gone past.
So I ask myself: Why should anyone make a good game anymore when you earn money by making bad games?
And I also ask myself why would you defend bad games like this. Let me finish this by telling you that your post made you sound very very childish.
I give a lot of money, and I am happy to keep doing so. The game is fun and I enjoy it. Every patch they bring in new content and are slowly doing as they said they would. Sure the timelines were not met, but its still getting done
As to the Charity stuff, If charities want to use the game to generate money that is fine by me. That's extra money they for them form another source.
I agree with Scorchien that complaining about those that support is just silly lol.
Its your opinion that the game is not a good one, well the rest of us putting money into it think its a great one. if you don't like then don't contribute and go find that good game you do want to play. its simple logic
Here's an answer for why you shouldcare where people spend their money;
Because you don't have the right to buy your way to nullifying or outright destroying the wishes of others, especially when they have pre-purchased something on the assumption it was supposed to be securely something else.
This should be common sense, but it's something severly lacking in Shroud's defender's case... if I have the money to pay someone to burn your house down because I want to be able to buy the land up cheaply once you're driven off it, that is obviously morally and legally wrong.
If I pay your landlord to just "coincidentally" look for a new tenant, that is still wrong.
In Shroud's case, they are not just besmirching the good name of charity with these actively deceptive practices (they keep the majority of the money) but the spending of the community is only done with the aim of furthering the development along the lines of purchasing rares to re-sell for real money later.
But the game at Kickstarter was specifically said to be a Buy to Own game with NO microtransactions. That's what it was funded as. Just because Portalarium were liars, and the RMT community are prepared to warp the development, doesn't make it right.
Nor does it mean people should shut up about not being given the thing THEY paid for.
Folks are getting lost in the weeds here.
If what Aron is saying about the promise of a buy to play with no microtransactions is true, the end product is substantially different from what they were advertising. That would be the main issue with continued funding attempts through microtransactions.
Here's an answer for why you shouldcare where people spend their money;
Because you don't have the right to buy your way to nullifying or outright destroying the wishes of others, especially when they have pre-purchased something on the assumption it was supposed to be securely something else.
This should be common sense, but it's something severly lacking in Shroud's defender's case... if I have the money to pay someone to burn your house down because I want to be able to buy the land up cheaply once you're driven off it, that is obviously morally and legally wrong.
If I pay your landlord to just "coincidentally" look for a new tenant, that is still wrong.
In Shroud's case, they are not just besmirching the good name of charity with these actively deceptive practices (they keep the majority of the money) but the spending of the community is only done with the aim of furthering the development along the lines of purchasing rares to re-sell for real money later.
But the game at Kickstarter was specifically said to be a Buy to Own game with NO microtransactions. That's what it was funded as. Just because Portalarium were liars, and the RMT community are prepared to warp the development, doesn't make it right.
Nor does it mean people should shut up about not being given the thing THEY paid for.
Aron, its is not the developers fault for making a game the way they intended but rather your own issue for thinking it would be something that its not, or assuming that it would be something else. Never assume anything.
As to Charities one should always look into the organizations they are donating. here is a Canadian link to some information on some of the charities which is only a fraction of what is out there. The fact that a game offers additional donations in exchange for fluff is fine by me. I support that.
Also they never said there would not be microtransactions that I recall. If you could provide the link to where that was found that would be great.
They are going to deliever what they promised. The few items that they could not deliver on have had replacement items. We all get what we paid for which is a game that is based on UO. all the content they said there would be is there now. just because its not what you thought it would be does not mean you are entitled to anything more then what they advertised.
If you invest in any company to make or do something you are simply investing in the concept, not the direction, or how they get there. Your return is usually listed as was SOTA on what you will get for what you pay. You are not entitled to anything more.
I got everything I paid for in the investment, my deed, house, titles, pets etc. that was the payout for the investment. It did not say I would have any say in the game. that was only reserved to the top investors. Like all companies the top shareholders have a say the little people just have to accept that. Its how all companies work. However if a large enough base of the players want something changed then the totals may make a change.
the majority of the complainers are the minority so they can be mad all they like that its not what they thought it would be but you still got what was promised for what you paid for.
Here's an answer for why you shouldcare where people spend their money;
Because you don't have the right to buy your way to nullifying or outright destroying the wishes of others, especially when they have pre-purchased something on the assumption it was supposed to be securely something else.
This should be common sense, but it's something severly lacking in Shroud's defender's case... if I have the money to pay someone to burn your house down because I want to be able to buy the land up cheaply once you're driven off it, that is obviously morally and legally wrong.
If I pay your landlord to just "coincidentally" look for a new tenant, that is still wrong.
In Shroud's case, they are not just besmirching the good name of charity with these actively deceptive practices (they keep the majority of the money) but the spending of the community is only done with the aim of furthering the development along the lines of purchasing rares to re-sell for real money later.
But the game at Kickstarter was specifically said to be a Buy to Own game with NO microtransactions. That's what it was funded as. Just because Portalarium were liars, and the RMT community are prepared to warp the development, doesn't make it right.
Nor does it mean people should shut up about not being given the thing THEY paid for.
Aron, its is not the developers fault for making a game the way they intended but rather your own issue for thinking it would be something that its not, or assuming that it would be something else. Never assume anything.
As to Charities one should always look into the organizations they are donating. here is a Canadian link to some information on some of the charities which is only a fraction of what is out there. The fact that a game offers additional donations in exchange for fluff is fine by me. I support that.
Also they never said there would not be microtransactions that I recall. If you could provide the link to where that was found that would be great.
They are going to deliever what they promised. The few items that they could not deliver on have had replacement items. We all get what we paid for which is a game that is based on UO. all the content they said there would be is there now. just because its not what you thought it would be does not mean you are entitled to anything more then what they advertised.
If you invest in any company to make or do something you are simply investing in the concept, not the direction, or how they get there. Your return is usually listed as was SOTA on what you will get for what you pay. You are not entitled to anything more.
I got everything I paid for in the investment, my deed, house, titles, pets etc. that was the payout for the investment. It did not say I would have any say in the game. that was only reserved to the top investors. Like all companies the top shareholders have a say the little people just have to accept that. Its how all companies work. However if a large enough base of the players want something changed then the totals may make a change.
the majority of the complainers are the minority so they can be mad all they like that its not what they thought it would be but you still got what was promised for what you paid for.
Just saying.
This isn't an employer/employee relationship in an at will state. Analogizing the situation in that way seems inaccurate.
Here's an answer for why you shouldcare where people spend their money;
Because you don't have the right to buy your way to nullifying or outright destroying the wishes of others, especially when they have pre-purchased something on the assumption it was supposed to be securely something else.
This should be common sense, but it's something severly lacking in Shroud's defender's case... if I have the money to pay someone to burn your house down because I want to be able to buy the land up cheaply once you're driven off it, that is obviously morally and legally wrong.
If I pay your landlord to just "coincidentally" look for a new tenant, that is still wrong.
In Shroud's case, they are not just besmirching the good name of charity with these actively deceptive practices (they keep the majority of the money) but the spending of the community is only done with the aim of furthering the development along the lines of purchasing rares to re-sell for real money later.
But the game at Kickstarter was specifically said to be a Buy to Own game with NO microtransactions. That's what it was funded as. Just because Portalarium were liars, and the RMT community are prepared to warp the development, doesn't make it right.
Nor does it mean people should shut up about not being given the thing THEY paid for.
Aron, its is not the developers fault for making a game the way they intended but rather your own issue for thinking it would be something that its not, or assuming that it would be something else. Never assume anything.
As to Charities one should always look into the organizations they are donating. here is a Canadian link to some information on some of the charities which is only a fraction of what is out there. The fact that a game offers additional donations in exchange for fluff is fine by me. I support that.
Also they never said there would not be microtransactions that I recall. If you could provide the link to where that was found that would be great.
They are going to deliever what they promised. The few items that they could not deliver on have had replacement items. We all get what we paid for which is a game that is based on UO. all the content they said there would be is there now. just because its not what you thought it would be does not mean you are entitled to anything more then what they advertised.
If you invest in any company to make or do something you are simply investing in the concept, not the direction, or how they get there. Your return is usually listed as was SOTA on what you will get for what you pay. You are not entitled to anything more.
I got everything I paid for in the investment, my deed, house, titles, pets etc. that was the payout for the investment. It did not say I would have any say in the game. that was only reserved to the top investors. Like all companies the top shareholders have a say the little people just have to accept that. Its how all companies work. However if a large enough base of the players want something changed then the totals may make a change.
the majority of the complainers are the minority so they can be mad all they like that its not what they thought it would be but you still got what was promised for what you paid for.
Just saying.
Totally agree. Also, if I'm going to donate to charity then trust that I'll go direct to the source. If people have an expectation that a big chunk of that goes to charity then I think they are probably very overly optimistic. The fact that something goes to charity is great, considering that most would give none. So if I can throw money at something I was going to buy anyway and have a little bit go to charity, I think that's great.
Here's an answer for why you shouldcare where people spend their money;
Because you don't have the right to buy your way to nullifying or outright destroying the wishes of others, especially when they have pre-purchased something on the assumption it was supposed to be securely something else.
This should be common sense, but it's something severly lacking in Shroud's defender's case... if I have the money to pay someone to burn your house down because I want to be able to buy the land up cheaply once you're driven off it, that is obviously morally and legally wrong.
If I pay your landlord to just "coincidentally" look for a new tenant, that is still wrong.
In Shroud's case, they are not just besmirching the good name of charity with these actively deceptive practices (they keep the majority of the money) but the spending of the community is only done with the aim of furthering the development along the lines of purchasing rares to re-sell for real money later.
But the game at Kickstarter was specifically said to be a Buy to Own game with NO microtransactions. That's what it was funded as. Just because Portalarium were liars, and the RMT community are prepared to warp the development, doesn't make it right.
Nor does it mean people should shut up about not being given the thing THEY paid for.
Folks are getting lost in the weeds here.
If what Aron is saying about the promise of a buy to play with no microtransactions is true, the end product is substantially different from what they were advertising. That would be the main issue with continued funding attempts through microtransactions.
Not sure what he was looking at, this is posted prominently on the Kickstarter page.
"Shroud of the Avatar is a “buy-to-play” game that, once purchased, does not require a subscription to play! "
No mention about no MTs, in fact without a sub I would have expected a cash shop to be in place.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
but way to not answer ...
Why does it bother you what they do with there money ?
an answer would be great ...
I will answer you as soon as you answer me.
We can keep going all day.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
you have NO reason .. thats why you cant answer..
I think people who bitch about how others spend there money are petty chidish fools , who sound ridiculous ,, Is it just jeaolousy for these people .. I dont know .. There is noe reason for anyone to care how they spend there money even if 0% went to charity ...
The company in question here is providing a service to there consumers ... that ... here it comes .. that those consumers want and support ...It does not affect anyone else , it does not hurt anyone ..Well the only other people it directly affects are that receive thru the charities ...
Its people bitching for the sake of bitching ...There really is no sane reason this should effect or bother anyone
SOTA and Portalarium have enough things that one can complain about .. this is complaelty unfounded and rooted in some weird jealous/hateful nerdrage
Not to say all cause related marketing is bad, many charities receive considerable revenues from such efforts, but there are good and bad practices out there.
But they are marketing gimmicks, which consumers are not unaware of,
"After all, companies don’t do cause marketing solely to give, but also to get more of your business. Surveys show that almost 90 percent of consumers say that given similar price and quality, they’re likely to switch to a brand associated with a good cause."
Portalarium raises a red flag in two ways with regards to how much as a percentage of total brought in actually goes to charity,
"Others violate the BBB’s guidelines by sending consumers to a website where it is difficult to find the disclosure or use vague language such as “net proceeds” or “some of our profits.” “How is the consumer supposed to know what ‘net proceeds’ means?” Weiner said."
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2014/12/a-donation-with-purchase-might-not-be-the-best-way-to-support-a-charity/index.htm
So yeah, if someone is fine buying something and it makes them feel good because " a portion" goes to charity great, but it should not be painted as some magnanimous effort, it's strictly a marketing gimmick used to pump up sales.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And there community supports and still wants these events to raise 100% money for there .. game ...
Why care ..
And everything is right there and very clear where the money goes they have hidden nothing ...
It just blows my mind whenever i see people bitching how others spend there ..
We arent going to make any ground here , so im gonna be done with it .. Its there game, its there community ,its there choice, its there money .....
Hmm let's see.
I see a lot of money getting pulled in by this project while the game itself is below average.
And I see loads of projects like this built on mediocrity and a mix of false promises and glory from a long gone past.
So I ask myself: Why should anyone make a good game anymore when you earn money by making bad games?
And I also ask myself why would you defend bad games like this.
Let me finish this by telling you that your post made you sound very very childish.
1. Money for the game
2. cosmetic items for the players
3. charity fund
But if that is your beef its something all together differnet , and ill say this ..
as i said in my very first response in this thread ..
Im trying to understand the problem with this , there are perfectly within there rights to sell there product for as long as they want for however much they want ..
This is what most business do that have set out to make money ..
It is also perfectly within your right to not purchase ..
But to post and be bothered by a company advertising and selling there product .. is just wrong...
This is America last i checked ..
What other companies dont you like .. are you activley camping out at there stores .. are you posting on WalMart forums ...?
If Portalarium wants to sell shit sandwiches and people buy them .. God Bless them..
Its what this country was built on ..
What business do you know of that ..Throws there hands in the air " Ok people we have made enough money , we are done here , everyone go home"
can you name one that has had that approach
There are rules about charitable contributions, and they are publishing how much they've given to various organizations, regardless what percentage of the "net proceeds" were.
Nor do I care if they give a cent to charity, but I do know when they decide to run campaigns like this, it's a marketing gimmick first and foremost, unless near 100% of the proceeds are given to charity.
I don't care if people give money to games, done it myself once or twice, may do so real soon again, but I do question the wisdom as development continues to drag out with no real end in sight, such as in the case of SC, CU or some others.
This one is just about "launched", and if people want to keep "giving" going forward, have at it, doesn't matter to me a wit.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Doesnt matter a wit to me
But there are people who like it and support it .. or guess what ... It would disapear
What i dont like , and this thread was going down that road is when people start pissing about how others spend there money , the premise would include all of us at some point/degree or another .. Its nobodies business how Kyleran wants to spend his money , wether its supporting SOTA or buying a new rifle to hunt deer or giving it to the corner crack head..
If the SOTA community wants to continue forward with these events its there business,there money , there game ....The rest of us have a choice to join it or not .. But to sit here pissin and moaning how other people ( and that all this was about ) choose to spend there money is really a dead end and waste of time
For me this is about the unethical misuse of telethons. Telethons are fundraising events designed to raise money for charitable and other worthy causes.
You may think it is genius that SOTA abused the rules on Telethons to give the appearance of
generosity, others find this type promotion of a private business a code of ethics breach. I find nothing humorous about this, nor would I bring this up just for the sake of hurting a business.
If Portalarium really cared about the charity targets they would of course give all charity raised to them.
People can do whatever they want with their money (within laws) but it need to be said if the so called charity event in fact is just another marketing trick to raise money to the game.
For me such behavior give a bad aftertaste.
On top of that, every time Portalarium gets caught twisting promises, or just plain making awful business/game decisions and people speak up, the complainers are labeled Trolls who are out to hurt the game. As has happened in this thread already.
Because you don't have the right to buy your way to nullifying or outright destroying the wishes of others, especially when they have pre-purchased something on the assumption it was supposed to be securely something else.
This should be common sense, but it's something severly lacking in Shroud's defender's case... if I have the money to pay someone to burn your house down because I want to be able to buy the land up cheaply once you're driven off it, that is obviously morally and legally wrong.
If I pay your landlord to just "coincidentally" look for a new tenant, that is still wrong.
In Shroud's case, they are not just besmirching the good name of charity with these actively deceptive practices (they keep the majority of the money) but the spending of the community is only done with the aim of furthering the development along the lines of purchasing rares to re-sell for real money later.
But the game at Kickstarter was specifically said to be a Buy to Own game with NO microtransactions. That's what it was funded as. Just because Portalarium were liars, and the RMT community are prepared to warp the development, doesn't make it right.
Nor does it mean people should shut up about not being given the thing THEY paid for.
I give a lot of money, and I am happy to keep doing so. The game is fun and I enjoy it. Every patch they bring in new content and are slowly doing as they said they would. Sure the timelines were not met, but its still getting done
As to the Charity stuff, If charities want to use the game to generate money that is fine by me. That's extra money they for them form another source.
I agree with Scorchien that complaining about those that support is just silly lol.
Its your opinion that the game is not a good one, well the rest of us putting money into it think its a great one. if you don't like then don't contribute and go find that good game you do want to play. its simple logic
If what Aron is saying about the promise of a buy to play with no microtransactions is true, the end product is substantially different from what they were advertising. That would be the main issue with continued funding attempts through microtransactions.
Aron, its is not the developers fault for making a game the way they intended but rather your own issue for thinking it would be something that its not, or assuming that it would be something else.
Never assume anything.
As to Charities one should always look into the organizations they are donating. here is a Canadian link to some information on some of the charities which is only a fraction of what is out there. The fact that a game offers additional donations in exchange for fluff is fine by me. I support that.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/phil-froats/how-much-money-goes-to-charity_b_2566538.html
Also they never said there would not be microtransactions that I recall. If you could provide the link to where that was found that would be great.
They are going to deliever what they promised. The few items that they could not deliver on have had replacement items. We all get what we paid for which is a game that is based on UO. all the content they said there would be is there now. just because its not what you thought it would be does not mean you are entitled to anything more then what they advertised.
If you invest in any company to make or do something you are simply investing in the concept, not the direction, or how they get there. Your return is usually listed as was SOTA on what you will get for what you pay. You are not entitled to anything more.
I got everything I paid for in the investment, my deed, house, titles, pets etc. that was the payout for the investment. It did not say I would have any say in the game. that was only reserved to the top investors. Like all companies the top shareholders have a say the little people just have to accept that. Its how all companies work. However if a large enough base of the players want something changed then the totals may make a change.
the majority of the complainers are the minority so they can be mad all they like that its not what they thought it would be but you still got what was promised for what you paid for.
Just saying.
Totally agree. Also, if I'm going to donate to charity then trust that I'll go direct to the source. If people have an expectation that a big chunk of that goes to charity then I think they are probably very overly optimistic. The fact that something goes to charity is great, considering that most would give none. So if I can throw money at something I was going to buy anyway and have a little bit go to charity, I think that's great.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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No mention about no MTs, in fact without a sub I would have expected a cash shop to be in place.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon