Shroud of the Avatar - Review in Progress #1 - First Steps in New Britannia - MMORPG.com

SBFord · March 2018

Shroud of the Avatar - Review in Progress #1 - First Steps in New Britannia - MMORPG.com

The launch of Shroud of the Avatar: Forsaken Virtues is a rare and curious event. Heralded as a spiritual successor to the classic Ultima series, and with Richard Garriott as Creative Director, this independently built title is firmly built on some old-school foundations. But does classic charm translate into an MMO worth exploring? In our multi-part review, I’ll be tackling that very question.

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Zeppel80 · March 2018

Sounds like some interesting ideas, but it doesn't seem casual friendly at all. From what I've heard, it sounds like just paying taxes on a house would require hours of game play. I wonder how many people today can put in the time an old school MMO like this seems to require?

I would also expect that it won't be long before players start exploiting the skill based leveling system. Just like in the old days, there will be players who spend their first three hours in-game just hitting practice dummies to get their combat skills up. It won't be long before any kind of PvP is impractical if you haven't done the same.

blorpykins · March 2018

Steam page still says it's Early Access.

Scot · March 2018

Nice to see they kept the character class by questions approach, if I remember aright that was done by a gypsy fortune teller back in the day?

The combat seems simple but doing combat repetitively to increase a skill is good to see as we need different systems in MMOs.

The graphics seem somewhat lacking, but its Indie, so I am not sure what players expect, BDO on what a fiftieth of the budget?

Having to talk the NPCs to learn what they can help with is refreshing, but I can also see how it could be rather irritating. I think that's going to depend very much on the player.

Not really bothered about UI issues, unless we think they have no intention of improving them? The one thing that did worry me was previously it was suggested that "mouse look" was tricky, that I would find infuriating.

Keeping my eye on this one but would need to see some big improvements before I stuck my toe in, but at the end of all these reviews I think the game will still be in some form of early access. So it is still early days even though they have a cash shop and have no intention to wipe the server, go figure.

I still have a pint of blood in the fridge ready to send in if I decide to join.

blorpykins · March 2018

BDO cost less.

hasho83 · March 2018

I have gived my share of the founds for the project,and im sorry for it ! They never listened for the bigest percentage of the ppl on theyr forums,and the game is money grab,if you want your city and all the good stuf,you have to invest a c*ap ton of money !!! Im disapointed from R G, Ultima Online is my favorite game !

cameltosis · March 2018

Now that it's released, is this game actually an MMO? I get quite confused whenever I read articles about it.

Some mention offline mode, others have mentioned a smaller scale coop experience. Some call it an actual MMO but then seem to reference very low player caps in zones which would mean it's not an MMO.

rune_74 · March 2018

Zeppel80 said:

Sounds like some interesting ideas, but it doesn't seem casual friendly at all. From what I've heard, it sounds like just paying taxes on a house would require hours of game play. I wonder how many people today can put in the time an old school MMO like this seems to require?

I would also expect that it won't be long before players start exploiting the skill based leveling system. Just like in the old days, there will be players who spend their first three hours in-game just hitting practice dummies to get their combat skills up. It won't be long before any kind of PvP is impractical if you haven't done the same.

They already have as this game has been live for 18 months or so....

cameltosis said:

Now that it's released, is this game actually an MMO? I get quite confused whenever I read articles about it.

Some mention offline mode, others have mentioned a smaller scale coop experience. Some call it an actual MMO but then seem to reference very low player caps in zones which would mean it's not an MMO.

Yep, they kickstarted it as a single player game you can play online with friends....then a few months after getting the money for that they brought in a new dev, Darkstarr and he pushed them to an MMO.

As for the starting review, good write up.

I tried starting again recently where I took it as a new player and started asking questions as I played.

-why do skills allow you keep selecting them even before they cool down.

-why are all the treasure chests empty?

- why do I find zero challenge in the New user experience(was told I shouldn't adventure there, even though this is where the story starts)

- Lots of text, a lot of it useless. The NPC's play like someone did some poor fan fiction for them and it's a giant text dump. Got bored pretty quickly with this.

- Reaction of NPC's doesn't match what is going on....some want to spread their arms joyously as they tell you how bad things are.

- Pretty much zero consequences in your actions.

- You mention the wounded night that asks you to help....why can't you aid him? Just let him die?

- There are some spots where NPC's will kill monsters for you and you can stand there and collect the gold off the dead monsters...zero effort.

- Sound effects....awful. No stepping sounds. A weird moaning that makes it sound like someone is having more fun then me.

- The community is a mixed bag, there are some nice people, then there are those looking to RMT and protect their investments. There have been decisions made in the design of this game that were not so much about what was good for the game but what was good for the high backers. Things like letting those players know about changes to the economy before it went live allowing them to profit from said information and Player owned towns having zero rules involved that would protect users.

- There are a lot of players running around with characters that will not really be possible with the way they have changed the rules now, they took advantage of the fact not all systems were in place when the game launched(went persistant). This has the added effect of min/maxers basically making PVP impossible for anyone but them...

There is a lot more issues....but this pretty much starts it off.

cameltosis · March 2018

rune_74 said:

cameltosis said:

Now that it's released, is this game actually an MMO? I get quite confused whenever I read articles about it.

Some mention offline mode, others have mentioned a smaller scale coop experience. Some call it an actual MMO but then seem to reference very low player caps in zones which would mean it's not an MMO.

Yep, they kickstarted it as a single player game you can play online with friends....then a few months after getting the money for that they brought in a new dev, Darkstarr and he pushed them to an MMO.

So, is it an MMO or not then?

To be clear what I mean, MMO = a game that supports 500+ people within the same virtual environment. A virtual environment being an area where you can actually play the game and that can be traversed without a loading screen.

This is actually the definition that Garriott himself came up with 20 years ago and confirmed on this site in the not-too-distant past (though back then his number was 250, the number's gone up as average multiplayer has gone up) so I'm really curious as to whether he has stuck to his own definition or not. I get the impression that he hasn't, that the heavy use of instancing and player caps means that it's in the same realm as Destiny and The Division (i.e. not MMOs)

Fedaygin · March 2018

Good article ty semi well written & means that has some Flaws, but appreciate the Article for us MMO Fans ^^ Agree what @Mars_Orbital said Above

Buying & Diving into this one In May after moved to new Home

Friendly MarkeeDragon having a Launch day Stream about this. He's a Community Friendly Veteran Gamer who has 6x Screens if i recall x) www.twitch.tv/markeedragon

PST: Please Moderator on this page fix this Comments area. When click Edit then can't add Paragraph even if Add more than 1x empty Line. Frustrating glitch when don't want to create Huge Chunk of Text Comments.

rune_74 · March 2018

Fedaygin said:

Good article ty semi well written & means that has some Flaws, but appreciate the Article for us MMO Fans ^^ Agree what @Mars_Orbital said Above Buying & Diving into this one In May after moved to new Home

Friendly MarkeeDragon having a Launch day Stream about this. He's a Community Friendly Veteran Gamer who has 6x Screens if i recall x) www.twitch.tv/markeedragon PST: Please Moderator on this page fix this Comments area. When click Edit then can't add Paragraph even if Add more than 1x empty Line. Frustrating glitch when don't want to create Huge Chunk of Text Comments.

Markee dragon is a RMT trader that gets discount items from Portalarium and resells them. He isn't doing anything here out of the kindness of his heart.

rune_74 · March 2018

cameltosis said:

rune_74 said:

cameltosis said:

Now that it's released, is this game actually an MMO? I get quite confused whenever I read articles about it.

Some mention offline mode, others have mentioned a smaller scale coop experience. Some call it an actual MMO but then seem to reference very low player caps in zones which would mean it's not an MMO.

Yep, they kickstarted it as a single player game you can play online with friends....then a few months after getting the money for that they brought in a new dev, Darkstarr and he pushed them to an MMO.

So, is it an MMO or not then?

To be clear what I mean, MMO = a game that supports 500+ people within the same virtual environment. A virtual environment being an area where you can actually play the game and that can be traversed without a loading screen.

This is actually the definition that Garriott himself came up with 20 years ago and confirmed on this site in the not-too-distant past (though back then his number was 250, the number's gone up as average multiplayer has gone up) so I'm really curious as to whether he has stuck to his own definition or not. I get the impression that he hasn't, that the heavy use of instancing and player caps means that it's in the same realm as Destiny and The Division (i.e. not MMOs)

There is no way they can do 500 in the same scene...though they have a hard time having that many online at once anyways.

3dom · March 2018

53% rating on Steam: why even bother with quality of final product when all revenue comes from founder packs during development?

sayuu · March 2018

Mars_Orbital said:

With a limited budget, Shroud of the Avatar had to compromise somewhere, and nowhere are those compromises more evident than in how the game looks. Built using the Unity engine, it was never going to win any beauty contests //

I stopped reading there. Graphics are subjective , and for me they look absolutely amazing .

Good luck with the rest of your review , bias detected.

ALL reviews are subjective mate. . .

rune_74 · March 2018

Mars_Orbital said:

With a limited budget, Shroud of the Avatar had to compromise somewhere, and nowhere are those compromises more evident than in how the game looks. Built using the Unity engine, it was never going to win any beauty contests //

I stopped reading there. Graphics are subjective , and for me they look absolutely amazing .

Good luck with the rest of your review , bias detected.

I think you should maybe stop reading reviews if you cannot accept that others may disagree with you.

rune_74 · March 2018

Mars_Orbital said:

rune_74 said:

Mars_Orbital said:

With a limited budget, Shroud of the Avatar had to compromise somewhere, and nowhere are those compromises more evident than in how the game looks. Built using the Unity engine, it was never going to win any beauty contests //

I stopped reading there. Graphics are subjective , and for me they look absolutely amazing .

Good luck with the rest of your review , bias detected.

I think you should maybe stop reading reviews if you cannot accept that others may disagree with you.

Why ? Debate is not relevant in the new world order i guess.

You dismissed him as biased. That isn't debate....that's the opposite. Perhaps you think he social engineering this?

LeFantome · March 2018

Mars_Orbital said:

With a limited budget, Shroud of the Avatar had to compromise somewhere, and nowhere are those compromises more evident than in how the game looks. Built using the Unity engine, it was never going to win any beauty contests //

I stopped reading there. Graphics are subjective , and for me they look absolutely amazing .

Good luck with the rest of your review , bias detected.

Compromise somewhere?
You mean lies, right?
Limited budget, every project has one, right?

Scot · March 2018

rune_74 said:

Mars_Orbital said:

rune_74 said:

Mars_Orbital said:

With a limited budget, Shroud of the Avatar had to compromise somewhere, and nowhere are those compromises more evident than in how the game looks. Built using the Unity engine, it was never going to win any beauty contests //

I stopped reading there. Graphics are subjective , and for me they look absolutely amazing .

Good luck with the rest of your review , bias detected.

I think you should maybe stop reading reviews if you cannot accept that others may disagree with you.

Why ? Debate is not relevant in the new world order i guess.

You dismissed him as biased. That isn't debate....that's the opposite. Perhaps you think he social engineering this?

I have to agree with Rune, graphics are subjective, but you are effectively saying reviews should not talk about graphics because of this.

You can't expect a review not to have some of the reviewers bias in it. I am not a fan of cartoon graphics for example, I never rated WoW highly for graphics even at launch. But that does not mean someone's opinion about the whole game is invalid.

I thought the review was considered in the round, and quite useful for getting a handle on the game.

rune_74 · March 2018

Torval said:

rune_74 said:

cameltosis said:

rune_74 said:

cameltosis said:

Now that it's released, is this game actually an MMO? I get quite confused whenever I read articles about it.

Some mention offline mode, others have mentioned a smaller scale coop experience. Some call it an actual MMO but then seem to reference very low player caps in zones which would mean it's not an MMO.

Yep, they kickstarted it as a single player game you can play online with friends....then a few months after getting the money for that they brought in a new dev, Darkstarr and he pushed them to an MMO.

So, is it an MMO or not then?

To be clear what I mean, MMO = a game that supports 500+ people within the same virtual environment. A virtual environment being an area where you can actually play the game and that can be traversed without a loading screen.

This is actually the definition that Garriott himself came up with 20 years ago and confirmed on this site in the not-too-distant past (though back then his number was 250, the number's gone up as average multiplayer has gone up) so I'm really curious as to whether he has stuck to his own definition or not. I get the impression that he hasn't, that the heavy use of instancing and player caps means that it's in the same realm as Destiny and The Division (i.e. not MMOs)

There is no way they can do 500 in the same scene...though they have a hard time having that many online at once anyways.

There are a lot of games that have trouble with 500 in the same area. Rift Prime has a hard time with 500 in the same zone let alone in the same area. Even if there are 500 people in the same area in most mmos you won't see them because of culling to prevent the horrible freeze frame fps stuttering mass concurrency causes. That's true in AAA mmos like Rift, GW2, etc. ESO handles it by never putting more people in a phase than the engine can handle.

He's just trying to derail the conversation into "what is an mmo" so he can go off on long insightful meaningless diatribes.

This game has a hard time with 100 in the same scene.

rune_74 · March 2018

Scot said:

rune_74 said:

Mars_Orbital said:

rune_74 said:

Mars_Orbital said:

With a limited budget, Shroud of the Avatar had to compromise somewhere, and nowhere are those compromises more evident than in how the game looks. Built using the Unity engine, it was never going to win any beauty contests //

I stopped reading there. Graphics are subjective , and for me they look absolutely amazing .

Good luck with the rest of your review , bias detected.

I think you should maybe stop reading reviews if you cannot accept that others may disagree with you.

Why ? Debate is not relevant in the new world order i guess.

You dismissed him as biased. That isn't debate....that's the opposite.

Perhaps you think he social engineering this?

I have to agree with Rune, graphics are subjective, but you are effectively saying reviews should not talk about graphics because of this.

You can't expect a review not to have some of the reviewers bias in it. I am not a fan of cartoon graphics for example, I never rated WoW highly for graphics even at launch. But that does not mean someone's opinion about the whole game is invalid.

I thought the review was considered in the round, and quite useful for getting a handle on the game.

For me, I logged in today and it is broken.

I cannot talk to NPC's and sell things as the windows close.

Sounds are awful.

If anything I think this review was nicer then it could have been.

LeFantome · March 2018

Mars_Orbital said:

rune_74 said:

For me, I logged in today and it is broken.

I cannot talk to NPC's and sell things as the windows close.

Sounds are awful.

If anything I think this review was nicer then it could have been.

can you show me this with screen captured video ? computer specs ?

If you have the game, why dont you show us ?

Wizardry · March 2018

Zeppel80 said:

Sounds like some interesting ideas, but it doesn't seem casual friendly at all. From what I've heard, it sounds like just paying taxes on a house would require hours of game play. I wonder how many people today can put in the time an old school MMO like this seems to require?

I would also expect that it won't be long before players start exploiting the skill based leveling system. Just like in the old days, there will be players who spend their first three hours in-game just hitting practice dummies to get their combat skills up. It won't be long before any kind of PvP is impractical if you haven't done the same.

Go watch streamers,most of them are putting in 8+ hours every single day.The old talk about time constraints was imo never warranted.
If you are so strapped for time ,then a mmorpg is 100% not a genre to look for.

When i don't feel like long gaming periods,i spark up Unreal Tournament or Quake or play 1-2 games of Hearthstone or some single player game.

Gazimoff · March 2018

Mars_Orbital said:

rune_74 said:

Mars_Orbital said:

rune_74 said:

Mars_Orbital said:

With a limited budget, Shroud of the Avatar had to compromise somewhere, and nowhere are those compromises more evident than in how the game looks. Built using the Unity engine, it was never going to win any beauty contests //

I stopped reading there. Graphics are subjective , and for me they look absolutely amazing .

Good luck with the rest of your review , bias detected.

I think you should maybe stop reading reviews if you cannot accept that others may disagree with you.

Why ? Debate is not relevant in the new world order i guess.

You dismissed him as biased. That isn't debate....that's the opposite.

Perhaps you think he social engineering this?

I read 3 paragraphs with out any facts. When a review starts off on shitting on a product instead of telling the reader what the game has to offer, what kind of mechanics ect, then input the opinion after those "facts" it would become much more creditable.

Wikipedia is thataway -->

Rawyn · March 2018

cameltosis said:

So, is it an MMO or not then?

To be clear what I mean, MMO = a game that supports 500+ people within the same virtual environment. A virtual environment being an area where you can actually play the game and that can be traversed without a loading screen.

This is actually the definition that Garriott himself came up with 20 years ago and confirmed on this site in the not-too-distant past (though back then his number was 250, the number's gone up as average multiplayer has gone up) so I'm really curious as to whether he has stuck to his own definition or not. I get the impression that he hasn't, that the heavy use of instancing and player caps means that it's in the same realm as Destiny and The Division (i.e. not MMOs)

I think i'd describe as a grinder. its not an open world, its full of instanced scenes that you gotta go through loading screens to get into and out ever time you want to go to a town or fightin place. for how many people i dunno but someone on reddit said about 70 people with some event they were doing on sat. and then it started kicking peeps into another instance. That looks pretty crap to me to not be able to handle a couple hundred people in one place.

https://www.reddit.com/r/shroudoftheavatar_raw/comments/87f4dj/landing_page_has_been_updated_for_launch/dwdfxf9/?context=3

"My guild had a recipe/emote swap party in Soltown on Saturday, the instance maxed out somewhere around 70 avatars - people on the overworld were being told the instance was full at that point, though it was still possible to get in if you added them to party."

jonp200 · March 2018

Great review. I uninstalled this sometime ago in disgust with a thought to log back in nearer to launch. I didn't feel things were going in the right direction but conceded it was an Alpha at the time.

I was in yesterday and find it much improved. I agree though the graphics are clunky and I am not in love with the UI. With that said, it did remind me of a classic Ultima game which is what I was looking for. I played the original Ultimas and they remain some of my best gaming memories. I can live with the clunkiness if the story pans out to be decent.

We'll see how I feel about it in a few more weeks.

VladamirBegemot · March 2018

I have a feeling the UI is going to be high on the 2nd quarter priorities list. They knocked down most of the old complaints but that one is still on the tip of everyones tongue.

But the nice thing about Portalarium is they deliver a ton of updates every month on the dot. So once UI is at the top of the list, it's going to get done.

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