All the comments claiming it isn't dead are strange to me. Over five years ago the consensus was that it was dead and what has come out since then? What game of quality or new population has arisen? ESO maybe? I'm sorry, but FF14 is really freakin niche in the west. It's been dead for a decade, and worse than dead, it's been beaten and mutilated until people won't even agree that the old definition is the current one. All sort of online games are now called mmos so it further dilutes the genre.
Supply outpacing demand? Are you being serious? There's been no supply. WoW was decried as an abomination to real mmos because of it's single player nature from 1-60 and it's harsh limits on group sizes. The old school hardcores loved it's endgame for the first few years though, while it alienated everyone who just wanted to group casually. It was a disaster for the genre, and yet nothing came out to challenge it except for cheap clones for years and years.
The only hope we have right now is that so many franchises and developers of 'normal' games are going open-world while networking is becoming faster and more efficient, allowing for more players to interact in these open worlds. Eventually there will be a revival of the mmo genre as it was truly meant to be, but it may not even be called mmorpgs because of the strange path it will take to get back to the 'good old days'.
There are so many awseome MMO's coming out in the next couple of years... From Ashes, to Pantheon and CU. Different games for people with different tastes. Plus, there are some expansions coming out for existing popular MMO's, such as WoW, TESO, FFXIV...
I really don't understand how people keep talking about the genre dying... it is pure nonsense.
All the comments claiming it isn't dead are strange to me. Over five years ago the consensus was that it was dead and what has come out since then? What game of quality or new population has arisen? ESO maybe? I'm sorry, but FF14 is really freakin niche in the west. It's been dead for a decade, and worse than dead, it's been beaten and mutilated until people won't even agree that the old definition is the current one. All sort of online games are now called mmos so it further dilutes the genre.
Supply outpacing demand? Are you being serious? There's been no supply. WoW was decried as an abomination to real mmos because of it's single player nature from 1-60 and it's harsh limits on group sizes. The old school hardcores loved it's endgame for the first few years though, while it alienated everyone who just wanted to group casually. It was a disaster for the genre, and yet nothing came out to challenge it except for cheap clones for years and years.
The only hope we have right now is that so many franchises and developers of 'normal' games are going open-world while networking is becoming faster and more efficient, allowing for more players to interact in these open worlds. Eventually there will be a revival of the mmo genre as it was truly meant to be, but it may not even be called mmorpgs because of the strange path it will take to get back to the 'good old days'.
There are so many personal feeling and opinions stated as facts in this post I don't even know where to start... can someone help me out?
"Over five years ago the consensus was that it was dead" - the consensus of WHO? Yours? A few self proclaimed "old schoolers" and some trolls here on this forum?
"What game of quality or new population has arisen?" - GW2, ESO, BDO, FFXIV, TSW, Archeage, Neverwinter,Wildstar...
"I'm sorry, but FF14 is really freakin niche in the west." - You can't dismiss that game just because of some "feeling" of yours. The game has a solid player base, no matter how much you dislike it (and I don't like that game either).
"WoW was decried as an abomination to real mmos" - WoW was acclaimed by both the industry and the players.
"because of it's single player nature from 1-60" - You obviously haven't played Vanilla WoW, or WoW before cataclysm.
"it alienated everyone who just wanted to group casually." - close to 13 millions active accounts during WotLK, yeah, that alienation conspiration of yours worked just fine... for Blizzard.
My opinion? You should go out more. Go out of this forum, and realize that the world isn't limited to what a few disgruntled vets and/or trolls post here.
I totally agree with adam_nox,
It may not necessarily be dead, but the market changed to games that play as games-online. It's a new crowed now and their not playing mmorpg's. Sure not everyone........some people are diversified and can live with what we have now. But millions are lost.
And what we have now are simple, easy cash shop games that tell a path story with very little variance....... How can this be disputed ?...... It's as clear as black and white.
I'll not go into definition's here, but millions of people want a deeper social community game and they consider that an mmorpg..... And to that, they're are none, even the classics turned.
All the comments claiming it isn't dead are strange to me. Over five years ago the consensus was that it was dead and what has come out since then? What game of quality or new population has arisen? ESO maybe? I'm sorry, but FF14 is really freakin niche in the west. It's been dead for a decade, and worse than dead, it's been beaten and mutilated until people won't even agree that the old definition is the current one. All sort of online games are now called mmos so it further dilutes the genre.
Supply outpacing demand? Are you being serious? There's been no supply. WoW was decried as an abomination to real mmos because of it's single player nature from 1-60 and it's harsh limits on group sizes. The old school hardcores loved it's endgame for the first few years though, while it alienated everyone who just wanted to group casually. It was a disaster for the genre, and yet nothing came out to challenge it except for cheap clones for years and years.
The only hope we have right now is that so many franchises and developers of 'normal' games are going open-world while networking is becoming faster and more efficient, allowing for more players to interact in these open worlds. Eventually there will be a revival of the mmo genre as it was truly meant to be, but it may not even be called mmorpgs because of the strange path it will take to get back to the 'good old days'.
There are so many personal feeling and opinions stated as facts in this post I don't even know where to start... can someone help me out?
"Over five years ago the consensus was that it was dead" - the consensus of WHO? Yours? A few self proclaimed "old schoolers" and some trolls here on this forum?
"What game of quality or new population has arisen?" - GW2, ESO, BDO, FFXIV, TSW, Archeage, Neverwinter,Wildstar...
"I'm sorry, but FF14 is really freakin niche in the west." - You can't dismiss that game just because of some "feeling" of yours. The game has a solid player base, no matter how much you dislike it (and I don't like that game either).
"WoW was decried as an abomination to real mmos" - WoW was acclaimed by both the industry and the players.
"because of it's single player nature from 1-60" - You obviously haven't played Vanilla WoW, or WoW before cataclysm.
"it alienated everyone who just wanted to group casually." - close to 13 millions active accounts during WotLK, yeah, that alienation conspiration of yours worked just fine... for Blizzard.
My opinion? You should go out more. Go out of this forum, and realize that the world isn't limited to what a few disgruntled vets and/or trolls post here.
I totally agree with adam_nox,
It may not necessarily be dead, but the market changed to games that play as games-online. It's a new crowed now and their not playing mmorpg's. Sure not everyone........some people are diversified and can live with what we have now. But millions are lost.
And what we have now are simple, easy cash shop games that tell a path story with very little variance....... How can this be disputed ?...... It's as clear as black and white.
I'll not go into definition's here, but millions of people want a deeper social community game and they consider that an mmorpg..... And to that, they're are none, even the classics turned.
But I hope you don't agree with those points. JL Picard pretty much addressed those appropriately.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Did Hearthstone and Overwatch cost as much as WoW to make and are they as profitable? I'm guessing both were much cheaper to make and are as profitable....There are just too many other avenues these companies can go down now....Like otehrs have said, even Blizzard decided not to go that route anymore with the scrapping of Titan.
Pantheon is going to save the genre. I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned in the video but I'm assuming it's because the kick starter failed? Either way, the game is alive and well. It's currently in pre-alpha and the monthly newsletters have been getting better and better. If you haven't checked it out yet, do yourself a favor and see what VR has been up to: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/
You are putting a lot of preasure on it. It certainly seems good but it isn't really made to get millions of players, just to give us oldtimers something a bit more classic and maybe show a different side of MMOs to some newer players.
At best it might point other devs in a different direction then the genre been going since 2004 but it will never become the next Wow.
Still, I am happy to get something with a bit more difficulty, I am tired of cookie-cutter MMOs.
I don't think you need to become the next WoW to save the genre. We just need an MMO "World" like we had back in the day, but with modernized graphics and gameplay. If it points other devs in a different direction that could very well be the start of saving the genre. =D
To attract investors back to the genre, the genre needs a game with a large customer base that it maintains over a reasonable time-period. Investors aren't backing new major projects because the player base isn't large enough, the retention rate is pretty anemic, and the development cost is so large. The time between investment and return on that investment is generally 5+ years. No one wants to invest $20 million on a product that will return $21 million in 7 years. That's just too long for the investor to wait. So, they pass on MMORPGs and invest in something safer.
Pantheon isn't doing anything to address any of the concerns that investors have, particularly the development time. By their own expectations, Pantheon isn't aiming for a large enough market to attract big money back to the genre. Even if Pantheon somehow manages a 100% customer retention rate at the 6, 12 and 18 month hurdles, it will not be an industry trend, the anticipated player base will be insignificant to attract major investors.
I've not seen any evidence that Pantheon is doing anything revolutionary from a development aspect. There's no cutting edge development techniques being used here that future projects can leverage to develop a game in 3 years instead of 5. Something that can trim the lead time will do more for attracting major investors than the lure of a million faithful customers.
Pantheon may be a phenomenal game. It just won't 'save the genre'.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
All the comments claiming it isn't dead are strange to me. Over five years ago the consensus was that it was dead and what has come out since then? What game of quality or new population has arisen? ESO maybe? I'm sorry, but FF14 is really freakin niche in the west. It's been dead for a decade, and worse than dead, it's been beaten and mutilated until people won't even agree that the old definition is the current one. All sort of online games are now called mmos so it further dilutes the genre.
Supply outpacing demand? Are you being serious? There's been no supply. WoW was decried as an abomination to real mmos because of it's single player nature from 1-60 and it's harsh limits on group sizes. The old school hardcores loved it's endgame for the first few years though, while it alienated everyone who just wanted to group casually. It was a disaster for the genre, and yet nothing came out to challenge it except for cheap clones for years and years.
The only hope we have right now is that so many franchises and developers of 'normal' games are going open-world while networking is becoming faster and more efficient, allowing for more players to interact in these open worlds. Eventually there will be a revival of the mmo genre as it was truly meant to be, but it may not even be called mmorpgs because of the strange path it will take to get back to the 'good old days'.
There are so many personal feeling and opinions stated as facts in this post I don't even know where to start... can someone help me out?
"Over five years ago the consensus was that it was dead" - the consensus of WHO? Yours? A few self proclaimed "old schoolers" and some trolls here on this forum?
"What game of quality or new population has arisen?" - GW2, ESO, BDO, FFXIV, TSW, Archeage, Neverwinter,Wildstar...
"I'm sorry, but FF14 is really freakin niche in the west." - You can't dismiss that game just because of some "feeling" of yours. The game has a solid player base, no matter how much you dislike it (and I don't like that game either).
"WoW was decried as an abomination to real mmos" - WoW was acclaimed by both the industry and the players.
"because of it's single player nature from 1-60" - You obviously haven't played Vanilla WoW, or WoW before cataclysm.
"it alienated everyone who just wanted to group casually." - close to 13 millions active accounts during WotLK, yeah, that alienation conspiration of yours worked just fine... for Blizzard.
My opinion? You should go out more. Go out of this forum, and realize that the world isn't limited to what a few disgruntled vets and/or trolls post here.
I totally agree with adam_nox,
It may not necessarily be dead, but the market changed to games that play as games-online. It's a new crowed now and their not playing mmorpg's. Sure not everyone........some people are diversified and can live with what we have now. But millions are lost.
And what we have now are simple, easy cash shop games that tell a path story with very little variance....... How can this be disputed ?...... It's as clear as black and white.
I'll not go into definition's here, but millions of people want a deeper social community game and they consider that an mmorpg..... And to that, they're are none, even the classics turned.
If you agree with his points, then that makes both him and you full of it. No problem for me, it's not really a surprise, you always try to make your opinion pass as a fact and you also always conveniently ignore the counter arguments that could threaten your fragile position. That's why you completely ignored my answers and just posted more personal opinion bullshit presented as facts.
Nothing new under the sun.
Now address my rebuttals to his points, and then we can start talking. But don't worry, i'm not holding my breath.
You don't agree with millions are lost ?....... Millions !
Last year when it was easer to make polls here on mmorpg.com, many polls were conducted, yes some of them by me (not that it matters who anyway).
In every case OVERWHELMING response that people didn't like the direction mmorpgs were going. Why is this ignored ?....... Several heavy posters just brush this off and forget the results.
You clam that I say my opinions are facts...... Well, guess what !...... They are according to the polls.
*Marketing polls are biased to sell cheaper products* *People buy every game that's advertised*
I clam: - People don't like cash shops, many don't like $15 a month that's true, but they "defiantly" don't like cash shops, they're hated...... Middle ground ?...... None of us could answer that.
- People don't like scripted, path game play and EASY.
- Millions gave up and are gone from this site, it's a new crowd with a few that like both.
- This site is slowing down mmorpg's are dying.
Don't believe me ?.......Run another poll. But lets not forget, millions are not here to vote !
All the comments claiming it isn't dead are strange to me. Over five years ago the consensus was that it was dead and what has come out since then? What game of quality or new population has arisen? ESO maybe? I'm sorry, but FF14 is really freakin niche in the west. It's been dead for a decade, and worse than dead, it's been beaten and mutilated until people won't even agree that the old definition is the current one. All sort of online games are now called mmos so it further dilutes the genre.
Supply outpacing demand? Are you being serious? There's been no supply. WoW was decried as an abomination to real mmos because of it's single player nature from 1-60 and it's harsh limits on group sizes. The old school hardcores loved it's endgame for the first few years though, while it alienated everyone who just wanted to group casually. It was a disaster for the genre, and yet nothing came out to challenge it except for cheap clones for years and years.
The only hope we have right now is that so many franchises and developers of 'normal' games are going open-world while networking is becoming faster and more efficient, allowing for more players to interact in these open worlds. Eventually there will be a revival of the mmo genre as it was truly meant to be, but it may not even be called mmorpgs because of the strange path it will take to get back to the 'good old days'.
There are so many personal feeling and opinions stated as facts in this post I don't even know where to start... can someone help me out?
"Over five years ago the consensus was that it was dead" - the consensus of WHO? Yours? A few self proclaimed "old schoolers" and some trolls here on this forum?
"What game of quality or new population has arisen?" - GW2, ESO, BDO, FFXIV, TSW, Archeage, Neverwinter,Wildstar...
"I'm sorry, but FF14 is really freakin niche in the west." - You can't dismiss that game just because of some "feeling" of yours. The game has a solid player base, no matter how much you dislike it (and I don't like that game either).
"WoW was decried as an abomination to real mmos" - WoW was acclaimed by both the industry and the players.
"because of it's single player nature from 1-60" - You obviously haven't played Vanilla WoW, or WoW before cataclysm.
"it alienated everyone who just wanted to group casually." - close to 13 millions active accounts during WotLK, yeah, that alienation conspiration of yours worked just fine... for Blizzard.
My opinion? You should go out more. Go out of this forum, and realize that the world isn't limited to what a few disgruntled vets and/or trolls post here.
I totally agree with adam_nox,
It may not necessarily be dead, but the market changed to games that play as games-online. It's a new crowed now and their not playing mmorpg's. Sure not everyone........some people are diversified and can live with what we have now. But millions are lost.
And what we have now are simple, easy cash shop games that tell a path story with very little variance....... How can this be disputed ?...... It's as clear as black and white.
I'll not go into definition's here, but millions of people want a deeper social community game and they consider that an mmorpg..... And to that, they're are none, even the classics turned.
There is a "deeper social community game " right out your front door and its free ..
All the comments claiming it isn't dead are strange to me. Over five years ago the consensus was that it was dead and what has come out since then? What game of quality or new population has arisen? ESO maybe? I'm sorry, but FF14 is really freakin niche in the west. It's been dead for a decade, and worse than dead, it's been beaten and mutilated until people won't even agree that the old definition is the current one. All sort of online games are now called mmos so it further dilutes the genre.
Supply outpacing demand? Are you being serious? There's been no supply. WoW was decried as an abomination to real mmos because of it's single player nature from 1-60 and it's harsh limits on group sizes. The old school hardcores loved it's endgame for the first few years though, while it alienated everyone who just wanted to group casually. It was a disaster for the genre, and yet nothing came out to challenge it except for cheap clones for years and years.
The only hope we have right now is that so many franchises and developers of 'normal' games are going open-world while networking is becoming faster and more efficient, allowing for more players to interact in these open worlds. Eventually there will be a revival of the mmo genre as it was truly meant to be, but it may not even be called mmorpgs because of the strange path it will take to get back to the 'good old days'.
There are so many personal feeling and opinions stated as facts in this post I don't even know where to start... can someone help me out?
"Over five years ago the consensus was that it was dead" - the consensus of WHO? Yours? A few self proclaimed "old schoolers" and some trolls here on this forum?
"What game of quality or new population has arisen?" - GW2, ESO, BDO, FFXIV, TSW, Archeage, Neverwinter,Wildstar...
"I'm sorry, but FF14 is really freakin niche in the west." - You can't dismiss that game just because of some "feeling" of yours. The game has a solid player base, no matter how much you dislike it (and I don't like that game either).
"WoW was decried as an abomination to real mmos" - WoW was acclaimed by both the industry and the players.
"because of it's single player nature from 1-60" - You obviously haven't played Vanilla WoW, or WoW before cataclysm.
"it alienated everyone who just wanted to group casually." - close to 13 millions active accounts during WotLK, yeah, that alienation conspiration of yours worked just fine... for Blizzard.
My opinion? You should go out more. Go out of this forum, and realize that the world isn't limited to what a few disgruntled vets and/or trolls post here.
I totally agree with adam_nox,
It may not necessarily be dead, but the market changed to games that play as games-online. It's a new crowed now and their not playing mmorpg's. Sure not everyone........some people are diversified and can live with what we have now. But millions are lost.
And what we have now are simple, easy cash shop games that tell a path story with very little variance....... How can this be disputed ?...... It's as clear as black and white.
I'll not go into definition's here, but millions of people want a deeper social community game and they consider that an mmorpg..... And to that, they're are none, even the classics turned.
There is a "deeper social community game " right out your front door and its free ..
All the comments claiming it isn't dead are strange to me. Over five years ago the consensus was that it was dead and what has come out since then? What game of quality or new population has arisen? ESO maybe? I'm sorry, but FF14 is really freakin niche in the west. It's been dead for a decade, and worse than dead, it's been beaten and mutilated until people won't even agree that the old definition is the current one. All sort of online games are now called mmos so it further dilutes the genre.
Supply outpacing demand? Are you being serious? There's been no supply. WoW was decried as an abomination to real mmos because of it's single player nature from 1-60 and it's harsh limits on group sizes. The old school hardcores loved it's endgame for the first few years though, while it alienated everyone who just wanted to group casually. It was a disaster for the genre, and yet nothing came out to challenge it except for cheap clones for years and years.
The only hope we have right now is that so many franchises and developers of 'normal' games are going open-world while networking is becoming faster and more efficient, allowing for more players to interact in these open worlds. Eventually there will be a revival of the mmo genre as it was truly meant to be, but it may not even be called mmorpgs because of the strange path it will take to get back to the 'good old days'.
There are so many personal feeling and opinions stated as facts in this post I don't even know where to start... can someone help me out?
"Over five years ago the consensus was that it was dead" - the consensus of WHO? Yours? A few self proclaimed "old schoolers" and some trolls here on this forum?
"What game of quality or new population has arisen?" - GW2, ESO, BDO, FFXIV, TSW, Archeage, Neverwinter,Wildstar...
"I'm sorry, but FF14 is really freakin niche in the west." - You can't dismiss that game just because of some "feeling" of yours. The game has a solid player base, no matter how much you dislike it (and I don't like that game either).
"WoW was decried as an abomination to real mmos" - WoW was acclaimed by both the industry and the players.
"because of it's single player nature from 1-60" - You obviously haven't played Vanilla WoW, or WoW before cataclysm.
"it alienated everyone who just wanted to group casually." - close to 13 millions active accounts during WotLK, yeah, that alienation conspiration of yours worked just fine... for Blizzard.
My opinion? You should go out more. Go out of this forum, and realize that the world isn't limited to what a few disgruntled vets and/or trolls post here.
I totally agree with adam_nox,
It may not necessarily be dead, but the market changed to games that play as games-online. It's a new crowed now and their not playing mmorpg's. Sure not everyone........some people are diversified and can live with what we have now. But millions are lost.
And what we have now are simple, easy cash shop games that tell a path story with very little variance....... How can this be disputed ?...... It's as clear as black and white.
I'll not go into definition's here, but millions of people want a deeper social community game and they consider that an mmorpg..... And to that, they're are none, even the classics turned.
If you agree with his points, then that makes both him and you full of it. No problem for me, it's not really a surprise, you always try to make your opinion pass as a fact and you also always conveniently ignore the counter arguments that could threaten your fragile position. That's why you completely ignored my answers and just posted more personal opinion bullshit presented as facts.
Nothing new under the sun.
Now address my rebuttals to his points, and then we can start talking. But don't worry, i'm not holding my breath.
You don't agree with millions are lost ?....... Millions !
Last year when it was easer to make polls here on mmorpg.com, many polls were conducted, yes some of them by me (not that it matters who anyway).
In every case OVERWHELMING response that people didn't like the direction mmorpgs were going. Why is this ignored ?....... Several heavy posters just brush this off and forget the results.
You clam that I say my opinions are facts...... Well, guess what !...... They are according to the polls.
*Marketing polls are biased to sell cheaper products* *People buy every game that's advertised*
I clam: - People don't like cash shops, many don't like $15 a month that's true, but they "defiantly" don't like cash shops, they're hated...... Middle ground ?...... None of us could answer that.
- People don't like scripted, path game play and EASY.
- Millions gave up and are gone from this site, it's a new crowd with a few that like both.
- This site is slowing down mmorpg's are dying.
Don't believe me ?.......Run another poll. But lets not forget, millions are not here to vote !
STOP IGNORING THIS !
MMOs have changed, but that answer hides a truth. MMOs keep changing, what replaced old school has not sat still, and what replaced new school does not seem to be to the liking of those who thought doing away with old school was a good thing.
We are now in a gambling and P2W MMO world, but it won't stop here, it will get worse. I think Delete is right in that the genre is declining in terms of gamers. But they are being replaced by more and more "players", so the industry thrives.
This is happening right across gaming, not just MMOs, so what's the difference between a gamer and a player? Well its a bit like the difference between the roleplayers who started MMOs and the gamers who replaced them, in my eyes they were and are less invested in the idea of a online world, somewhere to live when you got back from work.
It not a hard set definition; I have been a roleplayer a gamer and even a player on the occasion. But regardless of what we did the new entrants overwhelmed any concerns we might have had.
Another factor is social media which has hit this site in much the way it has hit every forum in the world and indeed it impacted negatively on guild communities and guild communication in my eyes.
I am not sure Delete is right about what players want but I do know a genre thrives with diversity and originality, we don't have much of that so I would like to see his way tried more. Where I don't agree with him is that he seems to be saying this is the sole cause for why we have got to this stage, there are many issues which have led here.
I clam: - People don't like cash shops, many don't like $15 a month that's true, but they "defiantly" don't like cash shops, they're hated...... Middle ground ?...... None of us could answer that.
- People don't like scripted, path game play and EASY.
- Millions gave up and are gone from this site, it's a new crowd with a few that like both.
- This site is slowing down mmorpg's are dying.
STOP IGNORING THIS !
"- People don't like cash shops, many don't like $15 a month that's true,
but they "defiantly" don't like cash shops, they're hated...... Middle
ground ?...... None of us could answer that. "
Most people don't give a shit about cash shops if they are only cosmetic, like GW2, ESO... well like most AAA titles which use them. Only the Asian grinder have cash shops with "pay to win" problems that many people indeed "hate".
"- People don't like scripted, path game play and EASY. "
Bullshit, because you assume scripted = easy. Please post a viable link to your kills in Mythic raids in WoW (for instance). Show us that you have mastered those supposedly easy scripted fights. Until then, you're talking out of your ass.
"- Millions gave up and are gone from this site, it's a new crowd with a few that like both."
I'm sure you have a reliable data source for those millions you feel are gone. Since when, btw? Last year? 10 years ago? 20 ?
"- This site is slowing down mmorpg's are dying."
More pulling "facts" out of your ass. You may want to search online for some lube now, it must start to hurt badly.
"STOP IGNORING THIS !"
Because caps make you right.
Nice and convenient to leave out the part about the polls conducted, again side tracking proof AS ALWAYS (yes caps on). You and several others never acknowledged such polls, talk about picking and choosing.
Marketing polls are like CNN polls, only ask the four that agree when them, then you have 100%.... fake news
Never did I say script=easy...... script and also easy. At level 30 gather up the entire zone and press the dynamite button, what will the next gen game be....Nuke button, blow up the entire game
Data to back up millions gone....... come on !......... That's like a school yard brawl, where the kids scatter..... Whos the teacher gonna ask ?
I clam: - People don't like cash shops, many don't like $15 a month that's true, but they "defiantly" don't like cash shops, they're hated...... Middle ground ?...... None of us could answer that.
- People don't like scripted, path game play and EASY.
- Millions gave up and are gone from this site, it's a new crowd with a few that like both.
- This site is slowing down mmorpg's are dying.
STOP IGNORING THIS !
"- People don't like cash shops, many don't like $15 a month that's true,
but they "defiantly" don't like cash shops, they're hated...... Middle
ground ?...... None of us could answer that. "
Most people don't give a shit about cash shops if they are only cosmetic, like GW2, ESO... well like most AAA titles which use them. Only the Asian grinder have cash shops with "pay to win" problems that many people indeed "hate".
"- People don't like scripted, path game play and EASY. "
Bullshit, because you assume scripted = easy. Please post a viable link to your kills in Mythic raids in WoW (for instance). Show us that you have mastered those supposedly easy scripted fights. Until then, you're talking out of your ass.
"- Millions gave up and are gone from this site, it's a new crowd with a few that like both."
I'm sure you have a reliable data source for those millions you feel are gone. Since when, btw? Last year? 10 years ago? 20 ?
"- This site is slowing down mmorpg's are dying."
More pulling "facts" out of your ass. You may want to search online for some lube now, it must start to hurt badly.
"STOP IGNORING THIS !"
Because caps make you right.
Nice and convenient to leave out the part about the polls conducted, again side tracking proof AS ALWAYS (yes caps on). You and several others never acknowledged such polls, talk about picking and choosing.
Marketing polls are like CNN polls, only ask the four that agree when them, then you have 100%.... fake news
Never did I say script=easy...... script and also easy. At level 30 gather up the entire zone and press the dynamite button, what will the next gen game be....Nuke button, blow up the entire game
Data to back up millions gone....... come on !......... That's like a school yard brawl, where the kids scatter..... Whos the teacher gonna ask ?
There's never been a poll on this site that has had a million viewers, much less respondents. MMORPG.com doesn't have even close to the number of regular posters to a statistically valid poll. To be valid, a poll of this population of unknown size (>100,000 gamers) would require 384 total responses to give a 95% confidence with a 5% margin of error in the results.
Math is precise, and statistics is the foundation of polling science.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I'm sure I am in the minority but I dont mind cash shops at all...I dont even look at them...TO me its way worse to be forced to pay $15 a month for the "right to play" rather than paying for items people would like to have....
If mmorpgs are dead, does that me and all the people I play them with a bunch of necrophiliac gamers? I feel disgusted with myself now... I may need therapy
It's easy, stop copy/pasting the same MMO formula since ever in new titles and then the genre will captivate more interest, it's not about profitability because the MMO titles around show quite the numbers.
The MMO genre mostly still stands comparing to that phase of "yet another zombie survival game".
Death of MMo only because all we see is a sea full of spam of crappy Indie no effort low budget crap day after day after day. We see so much spam of these crappy games because websites and Youtubers make money from these by advertising them and reviewing them "same thing",there is NO quality control when comes to making $$$ just keep tossing all the trash at us,tons of people out there that will soak it up and spend money on those trash games.
1 WHY waste time and money making HQ mmorpg's when you can make something cheap like LOL or Dota or HOTS or Diablo's or Clash Royale and make tons of money doing it?
2 Only the super brave will even try and make a mmorpg and even then with a limited budget and limited time/effort.
3 Only a VERY small handful of developers can pull it off and even then many of those will run into problems along the way and cut corners and save cost and deliver a less than HQ game.Oh but we will patch it and fix it later..we PROMISE !!.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
Supply outpacing demand? Are you being serious? There's been no supply. WoW was decried as an abomination to real mmos because of it's single player nature from 1-60 and it's harsh limits on group sizes. The old school hardcores loved it's endgame for the first few years though, while it alienated everyone who just wanted to group casually. It was a disaster for the genre, and yet nothing came out to challenge it except for cheap clones for years and years.
The only hope we have right now is that so many franchises and developers of 'normal' games are going open-world while networking is becoming faster and more efficient, allowing for more players to interact in these open worlds. Eventually there will be a revival of the mmo genre as it was truly meant to be, but it may not even be called mmorpgs because of the strange path it will take to get back to the 'good old days'.
I really don't understand how people keep talking about the genre dying... it is pure nonsense.
Ashes of Creation: https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Archangelus/
I totally agree with adam_nox,
It may not necessarily be dead, but the market changed to games that play as games-online. It's a new crowed now and their not playing mmorpg's. Sure not everyone........some people are diversified and can live with what we have now. But millions are lost.
And what we have now are simple, easy cash shop games that tell a path story with very little variance....... How can this be disputed ?...... It's as clear as black and white.
I'll not go into definition's here, but millions of people want a deeper social community game and they consider that an mmorpg..... And to that, they're are none, even the classics turned.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Pantheon isn't doing anything to address any of the concerns that investors have, particularly the development time. By their own expectations, Pantheon isn't aiming for a large enough market to attract big money back to the genre. Even if Pantheon somehow manages a 100% customer retention rate at the 6, 12 and 18 month hurdles, it will not be an industry trend, the anticipated player base will be insignificant to attract major investors.
I've not seen any evidence that Pantheon is doing anything revolutionary from a development aspect. There's no cutting edge development techniques being used here that future projects can leverage to develop a game in 3 years instead of 5. Something that can trim the lead time will do more for attracting major investors than the lure of a million faithful customers.
Pantheon may be a phenomenal game. It just won't 'save the genre'.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
You don't agree with millions are lost ?....... Millions !
Last year when it was easer to make polls here on mmorpg.com, many polls were conducted, yes some of them by me (not that it matters who anyway).
In every case OVERWHELMING response that people didn't like the direction mmorpgs were going.
Why is this ignored ?....... Several heavy posters just brush this off and forget the results.
You clam that I say my opinions are facts...... Well, guess what !...... They are according to the polls.
*Marketing polls are biased to sell cheaper products*
*People buy every game that's advertised*
I clam:
- People don't like cash shops, many don't like $15 a month that's true, but they "defiantly" don't like cash shops, they're hated...... Middle ground ?...... None of us could answer that.
- People don't like scripted, path game play and EASY.
- Millions gave up and are gone from this site, it's a new crowd with a few that like both.
- This site is slowing down mmorpg's are dying.
Don't believe me ?.......Run another poll. But lets not forget, millions are not here to vote !
STOP IGNORING THIS !
Best game going actually ...
Knock, Knock!
MMOs have changed, but that answer hides a truth. MMOs keep changing, what replaced old school has not sat still, and what replaced new school does not seem to be to the liking of those who thought doing away with old school was a good thing.
We are now in a gambling and P2W MMO world, but it won't stop here, it will get worse. I think Delete is right in that the genre is declining in terms of gamers. But they are being replaced by more and more "players", so the industry thrives.
This is happening right across gaming, not just MMOs, so what's the difference between a gamer and a player? Well its a bit like the difference between the roleplayers who started MMOs and the gamers who replaced them, in my eyes they were and are less invested in the idea of a online world, somewhere to live when you got back from work.
It not a hard set definition; I have been a roleplayer a gamer and even a player on the occasion. But regardless of what we did the new entrants overwhelmed any concerns we might have had.
Another factor is social media which has hit this site in much the way it has hit every forum in the world and indeed it impacted negatively on guild communities and guild communication in my eyes.
I am not sure Delete is right about what players want but I do know a genre thrives with diversity and originality, we don't have much of that so I would like to see his way tried more. Where I don't agree with him is that he seems to be saying this is the sole cause for why we have got to this stage, there are many issues which have led here.
Marketing polls are like CNN polls, only ask the four that agree when them, then you have 100%.... fake news
Never did I say script=easy...... script and also easy. At level 30 gather up the entire zone and press the dynamite button, what will the next gen game be....Nuke button, blow up the entire game
Data to back up millions gone....... come on !......... That's like a school yard brawl, where the kids scatter..... Whos the teacher gonna ask ?
Math is precise, and statistics is the foundation of polling science.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
The MMO genre mostly still stands comparing to that phase of "yet another zombie survival game".
We see so much spam of these crappy games because websites and Youtubers make money from these by advertising them and reviewing them "same thing",there is NO quality control when comes to making $$$ just keep tossing all the trash at us,tons of people out there that will soak it up and spend money on those trash games.
1 WHY waste time and money making HQ mmorpg's when you can make something cheap like LOL or Dota or HOTS or Diablo's or Clash Royale and make tons of money doing it?
2 Only the super brave will even try and make a mmorpg and even then with a limited budget and limited time/effort.
3 Only a VERY small handful of developers can pull it off and even then many of those will run into problems along the way and cut corners and save cost and deliver a less than HQ game.Oh but we will patch it and fix it later..we PROMISE !!.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
And the Indies are the problem? lol