OP is so angry, fail this, fail that, shitting on things, crowdfunding boohoo, so incredibly edgy too.
How hilarious to be rooting for Bless then, a game that has ACTUALLY failed twice already and is now being promoted to suckers over here to try it for the third time.
You seem angry just for the sake of it, it doesn't suit you and looks kinda sad tbh.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
How hilarious is for Bless to actually make the game with their own budget , even if he failed twice, they are still supporting it, with , again .. their own budget.
So , stop comparing for the sake of comparation, or at least, have a bit of brain when you do.
I stand to my point. Crowdfunding projects are a weak excuse for the "long gone" dev's , which are living in the past and which no ones wants to hire them anymore.
PS: I am not angry. I am disappointed with today's players which are supporting this shitty games. Big difference.
I am just pointing out a huge flaw in your logic so easy to see you don't even need half a brain to noticet. You call unreleased games a failure and shitty but a game that has actually released and flopped is something you root for. You make no sense with your behaviour. Unless you just want to bash crowdfunding of course. Ohh, wait....
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Lahnmir , please, stay away from my topic. I said it loud and clear : I have something against KS MMO Projects and NOT any unreleased games.
OP is so angry, fail this, fail that, shitting on things, crowdfunding boohoo, so incredibly edgy too.
How hilarious to be rooting for Bless then, a game that has ACTUALLY failed twice already and is now being promoted to suckers over here to try it for the third time.
You seem angry just for the sake of it, it doesn't suit you and looks kinda sad tbh.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
How hilarious is for Bless to actually make the game with their own budget , even if he failed twice, they are still supporting it, with , again .. their own budget.
So , stop comparing for the sake of comparation, or at least, have a bit of brain when you do.
I stand to my point. Crowdfunding projects are a weak excuse for the "long gone" dev's , which are living in the past and which no ones wants to hire them anymore.
PS: I am not angry. I am disappointed with today's players which are supporting this shitty games. Big difference.
This is a fairly selfish logic IMO. You are saying that the only good thing is new. The reason is there is potentially a market for it. Someone wants to play these games or they wouldn't be in production. I'm not sure these types of games can exist in today's world because people are much more busy and don't have time to spend, but it's a free market in the US at least and people can make what niche products they can afford to make. You don't get to decide what is valid in modern times and what is not valid. I have played some RPG maker games recently that are indie games and enjoyed them more then modern games due to the fan service style that can break the bounds of what is acceptable in terms of story to mainstream people.
I really have no idea wtf you are talking about.
Free market, free speach. Now gtfo as you have no idea what I am saying here.
Aww, that lovely hostile tone, that condescending attitude, leave it at the door mate, it makes you look childish.
And you talk about Crowdfunding projects a couple of posts above this one, NOT about MMO KS projects. Might be a bit more specific if you want people to understand you.
And off you go? You want your safe space back where you can be all tough and "tell it like it is?" Cute, you can have your thread back, it wasn't any good to begin with.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
"If a company goes KS ( for MMO's that is ) , it means they are shit, because if they have a good project, they will 100% find some company who will fund their project. "
This what happens you just skip posts.
I am talking strictly KS MMO's!! projects! If you want to understand that, good, if not .. well ..
Investors want shares in return, usually a lot of it. While going through the KS route you give nothing in return. That's a really luxurious deal. It doesn't make your idea "shit" in any way. Seed money or full budget without losing shares? There's a world of difference between that and giving away the majority of your company to an investor. And the more you think your idea is not "shit" the less you'd be willing to giveaway shares.
But since there's no filter, and it is free money, lots of companies and individuals seek it out. Hence lots of "shit" companies and individuals would be among them. Doesn't make everybody "shit" and to be fair; to raise millions you can't be completely "shit".
Unless we are talking about your personal emotions here. If that's the case, then yeah, the whole world is shit mate.
Yes it does make every project shitty, unless proving wrong , which has yet to happen.
Do you really believe when you are saying that "dev's" are going KS route because investors wants shares in return ?! Are you fucking kidding me ? No, they go KS because no investors with a half brain wants to invest in : Shrouds , Ashes , Pantheon, Chronicles, Crowfall, Cameleon and such.
" And the more you think your idea is not "shit" the less you'd be willing to giveaway shares. " - Such naivety lol. 99% from whoever has any good idea be it MMO or not , wants to give away shares, for them to be able to make their ... dream project alive. Or .. in this case, they go KS with their "awesome" idea, for free money. They are set for the next 5 or so years without any stress.
Yes, having investors actually motivates you to give a fuck and work your ass to deliver, while getting free money from KS projects, makes you like "yeah, whatever!".
Common sense man, really! You seems to lack a lot of it.
Well , saying everytime "KS Projects MMO's" for you to see , because you don't actually want to read , is a cheap excuse for "I don't know what I am saying or wtf is with this thread. I just saw few lines here and there and now i'll say my opinion"
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Your logic isn't very good. You are suggesting that things aren't good
because they aren't mainstream. Most triple A companies don't care
about making products that aren't mainstream. Mainstream doesn't mean
something is good. The sugar industry is mainstream, but that doesn't
mean sugar is good for you to eat in it's refined form. Kick starter
isn't bad or good. It is just an alternative for small groups of people
to try and get the games they want made. It gives the power to the
people so speak so they aren't at the mercy of big game companies. That
is no different than companies that grow small quantities of home grown
vegetables vs those who mass produce.
Your logic isn't very good. You are suggesting that things aren't good
because they aren't mainstream. Most triple A companies don't care
about making products that aren't mainstream. Mainstream doesn't mean
something is good. The sugar industry is mainstream, but that doesn't
mean sugar is good for you to eat in it's refined form. Kick starter
isn't bad or good. It is just an alternative for small groups of people
to try and get the games they want made. It gives the power to the
people so speak so they aren't at the mercy of big game companies. That
is no different than companies that grow small quantities of home grown
vegetables vs those who mass produce.
No. I never suggested that things aren't good because they are not mainstream. They are not good ( KS MMo Projects ) , because they suck. That is, until some project comes to ..live and prove me wrong. And by proving me wrong, means to release a stable project, with some decent content , exactly like what they say first when they start their KS project.
We have shitty niche games ( mostly f2p ones ) , not made by the AAA companies , but at least they are funding their games with their own money.
People needs to realize that I make no comparation between big or small companies or companies who goes KS route. Actually, any company out there started small , so your(s) point is not valid.
What I am against is the way this companies ( KS's strictly ) are getting the money and are not held responsible for anything , aka - taking the money and "leave". Fail to deliver X content? No problem. Fail to release the game within a decent time-frame ? No problem. Fail to actually deliver anything? No problem. No one will say anything to them, while working with investors, you are fucking releasing what you said , or you are getting sued and/or fired - depending on the contract.
In before, making ( again ) comparations between a company who goes KS and a company who have their own funds , don't. Taking money from donors with promises and not delivering them , from my point of view , they should be responsible in a court. That's fraud. I mean, if you take money from anywhere else, for a project, and not delivering , normally you pay. From a bank ? You pay. From investors? Well , you can't actually fail because they are watching you , but if you do fail , then you are fired and oh well .. good luck finding a job in the industry. So everything else have consequences , except ......... KS! That is the problem.
[mod edit]
Post edited by Vaross on
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Because supporting fail KS projects, means that "dev's" will continue to throw "awesome - on paper - projects" , take the money from guys (a)like the one I quoted , and then "whatever".
People needs to realize, that devs needs to take the fucking care of everything. If a company goes KS ( for MMO's that is ) , it means they are shit, because if they have a good project, they will 100% find some company who will fund their project.
How can you legitimately say they're fail projects when they haven't even released yet? Jumping to the conclusion are we? Sounds more like you hate these titles so much you're posting this rant just to showcase it. Who the hell knows WHY you hate them so much(At least it sounds like you do from your rants) but it's pretty damn unjustified to call them fail projects when they have yet to release.
Hey hey, wait a minute.
First, yes! They are all fail projects , as we speak. Care to provide with facts? No ? Ok , so fail it is.
Secondly, I do not hate on this specific titles. I hate on (almost - i guess?) all MMO KS Projects because all they do is take the money and delivers shitty experience. Let's say X has just found about MMOs. First game? The "Lord British awesome MMO". He is excited , he downloads it , he create his very first character and .. and .. "You have been disconnected from the servers - They are to shitty - This game is to shitty" . He then goes /sad face and never looks back ( on MMOs ) .
So yeah! We even have Legend(ary) KS Project MMO , in the name of Star Citizen. That game will be a myth soon. Some will say "I've been playing it" , some will go "Heard stories that it will be released soon - The one making this statement is from .. 2050 or something" , and so on. And all this , thanks to KS projects who have ruined this genre.
PS: but it's pretty damn unjustified to call them fail projects when they have yet to release. - I just gave one exemple of a fully shitty released MMO from KS . Something with Avatar. No , it is not related to the Avatar movie. Ashes and Pantheon will follow the same path.
You did not fall for that surely? People write stuff like that because they want people to talk about it. Probably untrue. Some people even come on steam forums lying about their wages and I caught one guy since he claimed to come from the same country I did and I knew he was lying about how much he was being paid. After some further back and fro he even lied about coming from that country.
People do crazy things for attention and you can generally tell it is a lie when he seems to have no problem about paying $150. Don't believe everything that you read and rant about it.
Is not about believing this specific story , is about the reality which this story shows.
Maybe this one is not true , but I am very sure that this exact story applies to many who actually did this. That is the point of this thread.
As I said before, you can't call them failures yet. Because you had a bad experience with Shroud, that makes these other titles failures? Personally, Shroud looked like dog shit from start of development to official release. I wouldn't call it a failure though, just not my cup of tea. And, its still too early to call it a failure. Just because YOU think its a failure doesn't mean they are failures. It's a subjective topic.
How in the world you came to the conclusion that I had a bad experience with Shroud?! Never played it, NEVER will , and I will never play ( and pay to ) any KS MMo's. Not to whats now on the "market".
Maybe, just MAYBE , someday , sometime , someone will actually do something good with a KS project and delivers a stable, good and a quality MMO, but until then, I will shit on them as much as I want.
Because supporting fail KS projects, means that "dev's" will continue to throw "awesome - on paper - projects" , take the money from guys (a)like the one I quoted , and then "whatever".
People needs to realize, that devs needs to take the fucking care of everything. If a company goes KS ( for MMO's that is ) , it means they are shit, because if they have a good project, they will 100% find some company who will fund their project.
How can you legitimately say they're fail projects when they haven't even released yet? Jumping to the conclusion are we? Sounds more like you hate these titles so much you're posting this rant just to showcase it. Who the hell knows WHY you hate them so much(At least it sounds like you do from your rants) but it's pretty damn unjustified to call them fail projects when they have yet to release.
Hey hey, wait a minute.
First, yes! They are all fail projects , as we speak. Care to provide with facts? No ? Ok , so fail it is.
Secondly, I do not hate on this specific titles. I hate on (almost - i guess?) all MMO KS Projects because all they do is take the money and delivers shitty experience. Let's say X has just found about MMOs. First game? The "Lord British awesome MMO". He is excited , he downloads it , he create his very first character and .. and .. "You have been disconnected from the servers - They are to shitty - This game is to shitty" . He then goes /sad face and never looks back ( on MMOs ) .
So yeah! We even have Legend(ary) KS Project MMO , in the name of Star Citizen. That game will be a myth soon. Some will say "I've been playing it" , some will go "Heard stories that it will be released soon - The one making this statement is from .. 2050 or something" , and so on. And all this , thanks to KS projects who have ruined this genre.
PS: but it's pretty damn unjustified to call them fail projects when they have yet to release. - I just gave one exemple of a fully shitty released MMO from KS . Something with Avatar. No , it is not related to the Avatar movie. Ashes and Pantheon will follow the same path.
You did not fall for that surely? People write stuff like that because they want people to talk about it. Probably untrue. Some people even come on steam forums lying about their wages and I caught one guy since he claimed to come from the same country I did and I knew he was lying about how much he was being paid. After some further back and fro he even lied about coming from that country.
People do crazy things for attention and you can generally tell it is a lie when he seems to have no problem about paying $150. Don't believe everything that you read and rant about it.
Is not about believing this specific story , is about the reality which this story shows.
Maybe this one is not true , but I am very sure that this exact story applies to many who actually did this. That is the point of this thread.
As I said before, you can't call them failures yet. Because you had a bad experience with Shroud, that makes these other titles failures? Personally, Shroud looked like dog shit from start of development to official release. I wouldn't call it a failure though, just not my cup of tea. And, its still too early to call it a failure. Just because YOU think its a failure doesn't mean they are failures. It's a subjective topic.
How in the world you came to the conclusion that I had a bad experience with Shroud?! Never played it, NEVER will , and I will never play ( and pay to ) any KS MMo's. Not to whats now on the "market".
Maybe, just MAYBE , someday , sometime , someone will actually do something good with a KS project and delivers a stable, good and a quality MMO, but until then, I will shit on them as much as I want.
Crowdfunding is a way to step around this process, and seems to have mainly devolved into a way to milk money from sheep and fund bad business ideas.
Exactly !!
Lol, having conversation with you is like pounding my head into a concrete wall, it aint going anywhere!
Good .. good! That means communication, lol
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Because supporting fail KS projects, means that "dev's" will continue to throw "awesome - on paper - projects" , take the money from guys (a)like the one I quoted , and then "whatever".
People needs to realize, that devs needs to take the fucking care of everything. If a company goes KS ( for MMO's that is ) , it means they are shit, because if they have a good project, they will 100% find some company who will fund their project.
How can you legitimately say they're fail projects when they haven't even released yet? Jumping to the conclusion are we? Sounds more like you hate these titles so much you're posting this rant just to showcase it. Who the hell knows WHY you hate them so much(At least it sounds like you do from your rants) but it's pretty damn unjustified to call them fail projects when they have yet to release.
Hey hey, wait a minute.
First, yes! They are all fail projects , as we speak. Care to provide with facts? No ? Ok , so fail it is.
Secondly, I do not hate on this specific titles. I hate on (almost - i guess?) all MMO KS Projects because all they do is take the money and delivers shitty experience. Let's say X has just found about MMOs. First game? The "Lord British awesome MMO". He is excited , he downloads it , he create his very first character and .. and .. "You have been disconnected from the servers - They are to shitty - This game is to shitty" . He then goes /sad face and never looks back ( on MMOs ) .
So yeah! We even have Legend(ary) KS Project MMO , in the name of Star Citizen. That game will be a myth soon. Some will say "I've been playing it" , some will go "Heard stories that it will be released soon - The one making this statement is from .. 2050 or something" , and so on. And all this , thanks to KS projects who have ruined this genre.
PS: but it's pretty damn unjustified to call them fail projects when they have yet to release. - I just gave one exemple of a fully shitty released MMO from KS . Something with Avatar. No , it is not related to the Avatar movie. Ashes and Pantheon will follow the same path.
You did not fall for that surely? People write stuff like that because they want people to talk about it. Probably untrue. Some people even come on steam forums lying about their wages and I caught one guy since he claimed to come from the same country I did and I knew he was lying about how much he was being paid. After some further back and fro he even lied about coming from that country.
People do crazy things for attention and you can generally tell it is a lie when he seems to have no problem about paying $150. Don't believe everything that you read and rant about it.
Is not about believing this specific story , is about the reality which this story shows.
Maybe this one is not true , but I am very sure that this exact story applies to many who actually did this. That is the point of this thread.
As I said before, you can't call them failures yet. Because you had a bad experience with Shroud, that makes these other titles failures? Personally, Shroud looked like dog shit from start of development to official release. I wouldn't call it a failure though, just not my cup of tea. And, its still too early to call it a failure. Just because YOU think its a failure doesn't mean they are failures. It's a subjective topic.
How in the world you came to the conclusion that I had a bad experience with Shroud?! Never played it, NEVER will , and I will never play ( and pay to ) any KS MMo's. Not to whats now on the "market".
Maybe, just MAYBE , someday , sometime , someone will actually do something good with a KS project and delivers a stable, good and a quality MMO, but until then, I will shit on them as much as I want.
Your logic isn't very good. You are suggesting that things aren't good
because they aren't mainstream. Most triple A companies don't care
about making products that aren't mainstream. Mainstream doesn't mean
something is good. The sugar industry is mainstream, but that doesn't
mean sugar is good for you to eat in it's refined form. Kick starter
isn't bad or good. It is just an alternative for small groups of people
to try and get the games they want made. It gives the power to the
people so speak so they aren't at the mercy of big game companies. That
is no different than companies that grow small quantities of home grown
vegetables vs those who mass produce.
No. I never suggested that things aren't good because they are not mainstream. They are not good ( KS MMo Projects ) , because they suck. That is, until some project comes to ..live and prove me wrong. And by proving me wrong, means to release a stable project, with some decent content , exactly like what they say first when they start their KS project.
We have shitty niche games ( mostly f2p ones ) , not made by the AAA companies , but at least they are funding their games with their own money.
People needs to realize that I make no comparation between big or small companies or companies who goes KS route. Actually, any company out there started small , so your(s) point is not valid.
What I am against is the way this companies ( KS's strictly ) are getting the money and are not held responsible for anything , aka - taking the money and "leave". Fail to deliver X content? No problem. Fail to release the game within a decent time-frame ? No problem. Fail to actually deliver anything? No problem. No one will say anything to them, while working with investors, you are fucking releasing what you said , or you are getting sued and/or fired - depending on the contract.
In before, making ( again ) comparations between a company who goes KS and a company who have their own funds , don't. Taking money from donors with promises and not delivering them , from my point of view , they should be responsible in a court. That's fraud. I mean, if you take money from anywhere else, for a project, and not delivering , normally you pay. From a bank ? You pay. From investors? Well , you can't actually fail because they are watching you , but if you do fail , then you are fired and oh well .. good luck finding a job in the industry. So everything else have consequences , except ......... KS! That is the problem.
Nah, you only saying half of what you mean is lazy. Just like you trying to shut down everyone with a different opinion then yours instead of engaging in conversation, lazy. Or calling everything shitty until proven wrong, lazy. So beside being rude, condescending and completely unable to see the other side of an argument I can now ad lazy to the list. And all the while you keep questioning others their intelligence, the only one here lacking anything is you. Some people don't agree with you, boohoo, its a forum, not the IceAge show. Your buttons are also very easily pressed, its quite entertaining.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Your comment is more like "bla bla bla". Lazy "bla bla bla" that is ..
I guess that is a fair argument, but I don't see it a a major issue. People can invest if they have the spare money. It's their job to decide if they should or can invest. Obviously there is no guarantee a crowd funded game will ever be produced. I'm not certain it is fair to have that expectation. There are some kickstarter games that are fairly good like Pillars of Eternity, Tides of Numenera, and Wasteland 2 (at least according to reviews).
Your logic isn't very good. You are suggesting that things aren't good
because they aren't mainstream. Most triple A companies don't care
about making products that aren't mainstream. Mainstream doesn't mean
something is good. The sugar industry is mainstream, but that doesn't
mean sugar is good for you to eat in it's refined form. Kick starter
isn't bad or good. It is just an alternative for small groups of people
to try and get the games they want made. It gives the power to the
people so speak so they aren't at the mercy of big game companies. That
is no different than companies that grow small quantities of home grown
vegetables vs those who mass produce.
No. I never suggested that things aren't good because they are not mainstream. They are not good ( KS MMo Projects ) , because they suck. That is, until some project comes to ..live and prove me wrong. And by proving me wrong, means to release a stable project, with some decent content , exactly like what they say first when they start their KS project.
We have shitty niche games ( mostly f2p ones ) , not made by the AAA companies , but at least they are funding their games with their own money.
People needs to realize that I make no comparation between big or small companies or companies who goes KS route. Actually, any company out there started small , so your(s) point is not valid.
What I am against is the way this companies ( KS's strictly ) are getting the money and are not held responsible for anything , aka - taking the money and "leave". Fail to deliver X content? No problem. Fail to release the game within a decent time-frame ? No problem. Fail to actually deliver anything? No problem. No one will say anything to them, while working with investors, you are fucking releasing what you said , or you are getting sued and/or fired - depending on the contract.
In before, making ( again ) comparations between a company who goes KS and a company who have their own funds , don't. Taking money from donors with promises and not delivering them , from my point of view , they should be responsible in a court. That's fraud. I mean, if you take money from anywhere else, for a project, and not delivering , normally you pay. From a bank ? You pay. From investors? Well , you can't actually fail because they are watching you , but if you do fail , then you are fired and oh well .. good luck finding a job in the industry. So everything else have consequences , except ......... KS! That is the problem.
Nah, you only saying half of what you mean is lazy. Just like you trying to shut down everyone with a different opinion then yours instead of engaging in conversation, lazy. Or calling everything shitty until proven wrong, lazy. So beside being rude, condescending and completely unable to see the other side of an argument I can now ad lazy to the list. And all the while you keep questioning others their intelligence, the only one here lacking anything is you. Some people don't agree with you, boohoo, its a forum, not the IceAge show. Your buttons are also very easily pressed, its quite entertaining.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Your comment is more like "bla bla bla". Lazy "bla bla bla" that is ..
I guess that is a fair argument, but I don't see it a a major issue. People can invest if they have the spare money. It's their job to decide if they should or can invest. Obviously there is no guarantee a crowd funded game will ever be produced. I'm not certain it is fair to have that expectation. There are some kickstarter games that are fairly good like Pillars of Eternity, Tides of Numenera, and Wasteland 2 (at least according to reviews).
Well, I see it as a major issue because this is not.."investing" , is donating. I have no problem with donations in general, but it seems people have found a way to ..abuse it. Is a total mess I am telling you , and I don't see a way to stop this , which is a shame.
But..don't get me wrong, I am all for supporting good projects, but I am against this KS MMO projects which , as of now , they are all some short of scams. At least that is how I see them.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
People should be allowed to buy whatever they want and accept any unforseen circumstances when investing so much money into a product not guaranteed to launch.
Do I feel bad for the person who wasted that much? Absolutely not. They should have known the risks outlined in the terms of service they instantly scrolled to the bottom and accepted without thorough reading.
But it isn’t my place to judge how people spend their money because it doesn’t affect me. I choose to never buy or support any game in “early access.” Until the game goes gold, leave me in the cold.
Do I feel bad for the person who wasted that much? Absolutely not.
Neither Ashes nor Pantheon are confirmed failures as of this point in time and while they're personally the two major kickstarter projects I find least interesting I think they both have a fair shot at success.
Kickstarter anti-fanboys declare these projects dead / a waste of money the moment they are announced. That doesn't make them so.
Do I feel bad for the person who wasted that much? Absolutely not.
Neither Ashes nor Pantheon are confirmed failures as of this point in time and while they're personally the two major kickstarter projects I find least interesting I think they both have a fair shot at success.
Kickstarter anti-fanboys declare these projects dead / a waste of money the moment they are announced. That doesn't make them so.
I think Kickstarter is a good idea, honestly, the trouble is that it closely resembles local chat in Jita.
Yes it does make every project shitty, unless proving wrong , which has yet to happen. Do you really believe when you are saying that "dev's" are going KS route because investors wants shares in return ?! Are you fucking kidding me ? No, they go KS because no investors with a half brain wants to invest in : Shrouds , Ashes , Pantheon, Chronicles, Crowfall, Cameleon and such.
Because supporting fail KS projects, means that "dev's" will continue to throw "awesome - on paper - projects" , take the money from guys (a)like the one I quoted , and then "whatever".
People needs to realize, that devs needs to take the fucking care of everything. If a company goes KS ( for MMO's that is ) , it means they are shit, because if they have a good project, they will 100% find some company who will fund their project.
It is his money and his right to spend it in whatever way he wishes. Heck, I put a hundred bucks into Pantheon myself and I don't really expect to get much out of it (but one can always hope, I can afford to loose that much and maybe I get a game out of it as well).
No-one funded Notch with Minecraft until he had it in beta and that worked out pretty fine, sometimes miracles actually happens. As long as you realize most crowdfunded games fail there is no problem.
Of course putting more money then you can waste into crowdfunding is another matter completelly. I think it was Rommel who said "plan for the worst but hope for the best"...
Your logic isn't very good. You are suggesting that things aren't good
because they aren't mainstream. Most triple A companies don't care
about making products that aren't mainstream. Mainstream doesn't mean
something is good. The sugar industry is mainstream, but that doesn't
mean sugar is good for you to eat in it's refined form. Kick starter
isn't bad or good. It is just an alternative for small groups of people
to try and get the games they want made. It gives the power to the
people so speak so they aren't at the mercy of big game companies. That
is no different than companies that grow small quantities of home grown
vegetables vs those who mass produce.
No. I never suggested that things aren't good because they are not mainstream. They are not good ( KS MMo Projects ) , because they suck. That is, until some project comes to ..live and prove me wrong. And by proving me wrong, means to release a stable project, with some decent content , exactly like what they say first when they start their KS project.
We have shitty niche games ( mostly f2p ones ) , not made by the AAA companies , but at least they are funding their games with their own money.
People needs to realize that I make no comparation between big or small companies or companies who goes KS route. Actually, any company out there started small , so your(s) point is not valid.
What I am against is the way this companies ( KS's strictly ) are getting the money and are not held responsible for anything , aka - taking the money and "leave". Fail to deliver X content? No problem. Fail to release the game within a decent time-frame ? No problem. Fail to actually deliver anything? No problem. No one will say anything to them, while working with investors, you are fucking releasing what you said , or you are getting sued and/or fired - depending on the contract.
In before, making ( again ) comparations between a company who goes KS and a company who have their own funds , don't. Taking money from donors with promises and not delivering them , from my point of view , they should be responsible in a court. That's fraud. I mean, if you take money from anywhere else, for a project, and not delivering , normally you pay. From a bank ? You pay. From investors? Well , you can't actually fail because they are watching you , but if you do fail , then you are fired and oh well .. good luck finding a job in the industry. So everything else have consequences , except ......... KS! That is the problem.
Nah, you only saying half of what you mean is lazy. Just like you trying to shut down everyone with a different opinion then yours instead of engaging in conversation, lazy. Or calling everything shitty until proven wrong, lazy. So beside being rude, condescending and completely unable to see the other side of an argument I can now ad lazy to the list. And all the while you keep questioning others their intelligence, the only one here lacking anything is you. Some people don't agree with you, boohoo, its a forum, not the IceAge show. Your buttons are also very easily pressed, its quite entertaining.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Your comment is more like "bla bla bla". Lazy "bla bla bla" that is ..
And a lazy response, how unexpected. No points, no counterarguments, no discussion, just a futile attempt at shutting someone down, lazy.
And while I've enjoyed our little (very one sided) song and dance I will leave you to it. Enjoy your day, you've been very entertaining.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Do I feel bad for the person who wasted that much? Absolutely not.
Neither Ashes nor Pantheon are confirmed failures as of this point in time and while they're personally the two major kickstarter projects I find least interesting I think they both have a fair shot at success.
Kickstarter anti-fanboys declare these projects dead / a waste of money the moment they are announced. That doesn't make them so.
I’m by no means anti-Kickstarter. I’ve just given up on letting blind hype and promises dictate my decision to buy a game.
Well, I see it as a major issue because this is not.."investing" , is donating. I have no problem with donations in general, but it seems people have found a way to ..abuse it. Is a total mess I am telling you , and I don't see a way to stop this , which is a shame.
But..don't get me wrong, I am all for supporting good projects, but I am against this KS MMO projects which , as of now , they are all some short of scams. At least that is how I see them.
Then where are you going to get another MMORPG that is not a WOW Clone? No AAA Publisher is going to take a risk on another MMORPG because their goal is to become the next WOW for their Stock Holders. AAA Publishers no longer are interested in making good game, They are only interested in making money for Stock Holders. Just look at EA and loot boxes with Star Wars. Look at Blizzard with trying to cater to everyone by making the game a single player MMORPGs to make the masses happy instead of the niche MMORPG Market.
Because MMORPGs by nature are high risk low reward games, WOW was the only game in the history of MMORPGs to be massively profitable; publishers make crap MMORPGS to make money of them. Kickstarter right now is the ONLY way to make good MMORPGS again. They are a High Risk High Reward for the player base because if they make a game with about 500K sub on a #0 to 40 Million dollar budget the game can be very sustainable. In AAA Publishers eyes this is not profitable enough this is why they add P2W and shit.
So we are stuck with High Risk High Reward because we have Publicly traded Publishers.
Perfect World International - PWRD 20.20 blizzard activision stock - ATVI 65.04 Electronic Arts Inc - EA 118.51
Trion is privately held HOWEVER they did and keep trying to IPO their company. Why do you think Rift F2P came in vs keeping the game as a P2P only game that would have had around 300K subs? O thats right Money, they wanted to be publicly traded to make money.
What do all the Kickstarter publishers have in mind? Staying a Privately held company.
I think all the KS MMORPGs need to face reality: that all that money they've raised would be better spent by me. On whatever I want.
Oddly enough, I can see that. It makes as much sense to me as any Kickstarter campaign.
What is most bothersome is many of the KS campaigns are by people that have alot more money than any of us do......Its sad that all these people and companies are taking the "let someone else pay for it" attitude.
Well, I see it as a major issue because this is not.."investing" , is donating. I have no problem with donations in general, but it seems people have found a way to ..abuse it. Is a total mess I am telling you , and I don't see a way to stop this , which is a shame.
But..don't get me wrong, I am all for supporting good projects, but I am against this KS MMO projects which , as of now , they are all some short of scams. At least that is how I see them.
Then where are you going to get another MMORPG that is not a WOW Clone? No AAA Publisher is going to take a risk on another MMORPG because their goal is to become the next WOW for their Stock Holders. AAA Publishers no longer are interested in making good game, They are only interested in making money for Stock Holders. Just look at EA and loot boxes with Star Wars. Look at Blizzard with trying to cater to everyone by making the game a single player MMORPGs to make the masses happy instead of the niche MMORPG Market.
Because MMORPGs by nature are high risk low reward games, WOW was the only game in the history of MMORPGs to be massively profitable; publishers make crap MMORPGS to make money of them. Kickstarter right now is the ONLY way to make good MMORPGS again. They are a High Risk High Reward for the player base because if they make a game with about 500K sub on a #0 to 40 Million dollar budget the game can be very sustainable. In AAA Publishers eyes this is not profitable enough this is why they add P2W and shit.
So we are stuck with High Risk High Reward because we have Publicly traded Publishers.
Perfect World International - PWRD 20.20 blizzard activision stock - ATVI 65.04 Electronic Arts Inc - EA 118.51
Trion is privately held HOWEVER they did and keep trying to IPO their company. Why do you think Rift F2P came in vs keeping the game as a P2P only game that would have had around 300K subs? O thats right Money, they wanted to be publicly traded to make money.
What do all the Kickstarter publishers have in mind? Staying a Privately held company.
The genre needs some pruning, propping up hare-brained schemes put forth by teams with no track record of delivering a viable and fun game will not revive it. At some point, the facts need to be faced that adding more titles onto the pile will merely ensure the risks are too high for investors to roll the dice in this genre.
So long as the competition is so fierce that the games themselves have to be given away just to get people to try them, I don't see a lot of investor interest in anything other than innovative monetization schemes.
I think all the KS MMORPGs need to face reality: that all that money they've raised would be better spent by me. On whatever I want.
Oddly enough, I can see that. It makes as much sense to me as any Kickstarter campaign.
What is most bothersome is many of the KS campaigns are by people that have alot more money than any of us do......Its sad that all these people and companies are taking the "let someone else pay for it" attitude.
One solid principal of business is getting someone else to share the risk, or pay to fund your great idea.
Trouble is typical investors understand what a long shot (unlikely to make a proper return) these KSer MMOs really are, hence they turn to crowd funding.
Cmon, the Ashes team claimed to have $30M in actual funding lined up to create the core game.
Their Kickstarter and continuing funding effort are really just...you know, free money by people who want to throw it at them, so why not take it?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Ok so "blah blah blah blah I hate kick starter MMOs and anyone who invests in one is an idiot because I claim to know the future and they're all scams and will never launch, blah blah blah" logic justified by one moron with impulse control spending issues feeling sad because he blew all his gaming funds on games he now has to wait to play.
Yeah whatever man, enjoy your little crusade. MMORPGs are a dead investment to major companies in the west. If you want to ever see a new one the only way that's going to happen is via alternative funding as no investor worth their salt is going to float one of these tiny return games when they can put that money into quicker, cheaper, and far faster return making game venues. You want to see a true obscenity go and check how much money shitty and predatory little mobile games are raking in from people. The amount some people spend on those pointless fluff games is truly mind blowing.
Or stop trying to force titles onto the scene through pie in the sky promises made directly to customers, and allow the market to trim it's fat naturally until the base isn't so stretched then you literally can't even give away a title without shoving prizes in a gamer's face for merely logging in.
I think pressures surrounding cost of development (or, more apropos, cost of development x2.5 to account for that MUCH needed marketing) are pushing the trend in singleplayer games.
However, I can't disagree that the trend wouldn't have infected those genres even if the costs to release a game weren't skyrocketing, and I believe much of the issue was self-inflicted by the industry (graphics arms race between consoles, training the playerbase to devalue a base game to nothing, etc.).
Do I feel bad for the person who wasted that much? Absolutely not.
Neither Ashes nor Pantheon are confirmed failures as of this point in time and while they're personally the two major kickstarter projects I find least interesting I think they both have a fair shot at success.
Kickstarter anti-fanboys declare these projects dead / a waste of money the moment they are announced. That doesn't make them so.
I’m by no means anti-Kickstarter. I’ve just given up on letting blind hype and promises dictate my decision to buy a game.
Then how can you say their money was wasted? The jury is still out on if those games will live up to their promises or not.
There is a difference between saying "I'm not going to put money into these games until I see some proof they have an actual game that's fun" and "That person wasted their money on that game."
There money is by no means wasted until the game is a confirmed failure. They gambled their money.
At least for me, the money I have in kickstarter projects is because I would rather gamble money on the chance of a game I'll like, then put money into an existing/finished game I know is crap. And in terms of my personal preference GW2, F14, ESO etc. are all crap.
I’m by no means anti-Kickstarter. I’ve just given up on letting blind hype and promises dictate my decision to buy a game.
Then how can you say their money was wasted? The jury is still out on if those games will live up to their promises or not.
There is a difference between saying "I'm not going to put money into these games until I see some proof they have an actual game that's fun" and "That person wasted their money on that game."
There money is by no means wasted until the game is a confirmed failure. They gambled their money.
At least for me, the money I have in kickstarter projects is because I would rather gamble money on the chance of a game I'll like, then put money into an existing/finished game I know is crap. And in terms of my personal preference GW2, F14, ESO etc. are all crap.
You are the definition of a "whale" here. I am sorry, but your way of donating ( stop calling it gambling ) is exactly why I created this thread. I don't give a shit what you do with your money, what I do give a shit is seeing this "companies" , taking money from whales like you , delivering a pathetic experience and call it a game. This does not help this genre at all, in contrary , is going down. Actually, if I think a bit more here, the MMO genre is going down since around the same time KS projects started to appear. So go figure it out ..
Anyway , do..whatever you wish to do with your money, but I have the right to freely comment and not agree to how you spend them. Same as when I shit on a movie I didn't like , a food , a car and so on.
PS: I also think your personal preference about MMOs are bad. You can't call games like GW2 or F14 crap , but supporting KS project like Ashes, Chronicles, Shrouds, etc . You simply can't.
MisterZebub my crusader is way better then your crusade. I would rather NOT see this pathetic KS MMO's launch , and keep playing older ones, then to see them "rise and shine". And yes, I know the future. Call me when your beloved KS MMo's launch please.
And your definition about investors is ......delusional , conspiracy theory or such. There is no investor with a decent understanding about MMos, which would NOT invest in a GOOD MMO project. How the fuck do you think someone will say no if a project is good!? All KS MMO projects are shit. That is the reason as to why no investor invested in them.
So, if a project is good , be it MMO or not , you don't need to worry about finding investors. And to understand that, you kinda need to have a bit of common sense here, which , I am afraid, you don't have.
PS2: I mean, look at all those whales commenting and supporting KS projects. Their typical reply's are : I do what I want with my money - I would rather gamble them , then to wait and see if they deserve any money , etc. I swear , people like you are the ones who falls for scams like "buy this book on how to get rich in 30 days for the amazing price of $300." And after you got scammed, guess what your typical reply will be?
I do what I want with my money , when you could simply act like a normal person , and here , I quote immoralthang "I’ve just given up on letting blind hype and promises dictate my decision (to buy a game.)"
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Comments
Do you really believe when you are saying that "dev's" are going KS route because investors wants shares in return ?! Are you fucking kidding me ? No, they go KS because no investors with a half brain wants to invest in : Shrouds , Ashes , Pantheon, Chronicles, Crowfall, Cameleon and such.
" And the more you think your idea is not "shit" the less you'd be willing to giveaway shares. " - Such naivety lol. 99% from whoever has any good idea be it MMO or not , wants to give away shares, for them to be able to make their ... dream project alive. Or .. in this case, they go KS with their "awesome" idea, for free money. They are set for the next 5 or so years without any stress.
Yes, having investors actually motivates you to give a fuck and work your ass to deliver, while getting free money from KS projects, makes you like "yeah, whatever!".
Common sense man, really! You seems to lack a lot of it.
Well , saying everytime "KS Projects MMO's" for you to see , because you don't actually want to read , is a cheap excuse for "I don't know what I am saying or wtf is with this thread. I just saw few lines here and there and now i'll say my opinion"
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
We have shitty niche games ( mostly f2p ones ) , not made by the AAA companies , but at least they are funding their games with their own money.
People needs to realize that I make no comparation between big or small companies or companies who goes KS route. Actually, any company out there started small , so your(s) point is not valid.
What I am against is the way this companies ( KS's strictly ) are getting the money and are not held responsible for anything , aka - taking the money and "leave". Fail to deliver X content? No problem. Fail to release the game within a decent time-frame ? No problem. Fail to actually deliver anything? No problem. No one will say anything to them, while working with investors, you are fucking releasing what you said , or you are getting sued and/or fired - depending on the contract.
In before, making ( again ) comparations between a company who goes KS and a company who have their own funds , don't. Taking money from donors with promises and not delivering them , from my point of view , they should be responsible in a court. That's fraud. I mean, if you take money from anywhere else, for a project, and not delivering , normally you pay. From a bank ? You pay. From investors? Well , you can't actually fail because they are watching you , but if you do fail , then you are fired and oh well .. good luck finding a job in the industry. So everything else have consequences , except ......... KS! That is the problem.
[mod edit]
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
But..don't get me wrong, I am all for supporting good projects, but I am against this KS MMO projects which , as of now , they are all some short of scams. At least that is how I see them.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Do I feel bad for the person who wasted that much? Absolutely not. They should have known the risks outlined in the terms of service they instantly scrolled to the bottom and accepted without thorough reading.
But it isn’t my place to judge how people spend their money because it doesn’t affect me. I choose to never buy or support any game in “early access.” Until the game goes gold, leave me in the cold.
Kickstarter anti-fanboys declare these projects dead / a waste of money the moment they are announced. That doesn't make them so.
No-one funded Notch with Minecraft until he had it in beta and that worked out pretty fine, sometimes miracles actually happens. As long as you realize most crowdfunded games fail there is no problem.
Of course putting more money then you can waste into crowdfunding is another matter completelly. I think it was Rommel who said "plan for the worst but hope for the best"...
Still, I spend my money anyway I like.
And while I've enjoyed our little (very one sided) song and dance I will leave you to it. Enjoy your day, you've been very entertaining.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Because MMORPGs by nature are high risk low reward games, WOW was the only game in the history of MMORPGs to be massively profitable; publishers make crap MMORPGS to make money of them. Kickstarter right now is the ONLY way to make good MMORPGS again. They are a High Risk High Reward for the player base because if they make a game with about 500K sub on a #0 to 40 Million dollar budget the game can be very sustainable. In AAA Publishers eyes this is not profitable enough this is why they add P2W and shit.
So we are stuck with High Risk High Reward because we have Publicly traded Publishers.
Perfect World International - PWRD 20.20
blizzard activision stock - ATVI 65.04
Electronic Arts Inc - EA 118.51
Trion is privately held HOWEVER they did and keep trying to IPO their company. Why do you think Rift F2P came in vs keeping the game as a P2P only game that would have had around 300K subs? O thats right Money, they wanted to be publicly traded to make money.
What do all the Kickstarter publishers have in mind? Staying a Privately held company.
So long as the competition is so fierce that the games themselves have to be given away just to get people to try them, I don't see a lot of investor interest in anything other than innovative monetization schemes.
Trouble is typical investors understand what a long shot (unlikely to make a proper return) these KSer MMOs really are, hence they turn to crowd funding.
Cmon, the Ashes team claimed to have $30M in actual funding lined up to create the core game.
Their Kickstarter and continuing funding effort are really just...you know, free money by people who want to throw it at them, so why not take it?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
However, I can't disagree that the trend wouldn't have infected those genres even if the costs to release a game weren't skyrocketing, and I believe much of the issue was self-inflicted by the industry (graphics arms race between consoles, training the playerbase to devalue a base game to nothing, etc.).
There is a difference between saying "I'm not going to put money into these games until I see some proof they have an actual game that's fun" and "That person wasted their money on that game."
There money is by no means wasted until the game is a confirmed failure. They gambled their money.
At least for me, the money I have in kickstarter projects is because I would rather gamble money on the chance of a game I'll like, then put money into an existing/finished game I know is crap. And in terms of my personal preference GW2, F14, ESO etc. are all crap.
Anyway , do..whatever you wish to do with your money, but I have the right to freely comment and not agree to how you spend them. Same as when I shit on a movie I didn't like , a food , a car and so on.
PS: I also think your personal preference about MMOs are bad. You can't call games like GW2 or F14 crap , but supporting KS project like Ashes, Chronicles, Shrouds, etc . You simply can't.
MisterZebub my crusader is way better then your crusade. I would rather NOT see this pathetic KS MMO's launch , and keep playing older ones, then to see them "rise and shine". And yes, I know the future. Call me when your beloved KS MMo's launch please.
And your definition about investors is ......delusional , conspiracy theory or such. There is no investor with a decent understanding about MMos, which would NOT invest in a GOOD MMO project. How the fuck do you think someone will say no if a project is good!? All KS MMO projects are shit. That is the reason as to why no investor invested in them.
So, if a project is good , be it MMO or not , you don't need to worry about finding investors. And to understand that, you kinda need to have a bit of common sense here, which , I am afraid, you don't have.
PS2: I mean, look at all those whales commenting and supporting KS projects. Their typical reply's are : I do what I want with my money - I would rather gamble them , then to wait and see if they deserve any money , etc. I swear , people like you are the ones who falls for scams like "buy this book on how to get rich in 30 days for the amazing price of $300." And after you got scammed, guess what your typical reply will be?
I do what I want with my money , when you could simply act like a normal person , and here , I quote immoralthang "I’ve just given up on letting blind hype and promises dictate my decision (to buy a game.)"
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!