Level scaling regions didn't kill progression and make it boring. What's boring about the progression is the most anti-social community for of self-serving gamers in the industry.
Starting playing WOW with the Burning Crusade and sorry it is still the best expansion of this 14 year old game, first mistake Blizzard made was dumbing this game down in every aspect of the game, picking and choosing your own talents is an art in of itself, giving you an identity of somewhat while at the same time holding your interest changing them over and over again to get that right build. I have bought ever expansion simply because this was my first mmo the story of this game is awesome but the mmo has gone to crap utterly from crying whining five year olds and Blizzard cater to them. Again I will never understand why Blizzard didn't put this game on a updated platform updated engine with improved all around graphics combat and yes a talent system like the old days.
Speaking as one who started in late beta, the current game is just a PALE shadow of its former self. Much too limited ("accessible"...) and little thought has been applied to how all of the various changes have impacted the FUN that once was there.
Throw in misuse of scaling, and one has the current dismal mess. Its too bad, as it was once a great, and enjoyable game.
I really think laying the blame on scaling is unfair and misplaced. The scaling has added a much more seamless feel to the world. It's great.
However, scaling is responsible for unmasking some pretty ugly design kludges. Traditional level gating mechanics did a good job at hiding that. It was easier to farm and game that system to powerlevel alts, and that's not a bad thing necessarily, so people also spent less time exposed to those faults.
So what does Blizzard do in this situation? Removing level scaling doesn't actually remove the problem. I can think of several things, but without some sort of major revamp or kludgy heirloom xp acceleration, I'm coming up empty for answers.
Scaling isn't necessarily to blame, but creating a game without scaling in mind, releasing numerous expansions, and then trying to staple it back into all those expansions is a definite problem.
Changing streams so drastically over a decade after the game's release was sure to unearth some new issues. As for the solution, I don't have a good one, either. WoW has already let the boat sail on ensuring they keep the leveling process fresh from start to finish, so any attempts to swim back to shore will likely end with more issues.
I think those issues have been ticking timebomb for a while now, at least since Panderia. The game systems don't scale well but they keep adding vertical progression and stretching it out. That's why the trunk of the skill tree is so sparse. They're trying to stretch something intended for 50 - 60 levels, at the most, out to well over 100 now. That has been apparent since around Panderia.
I do get the issue veteran accounts are experiencing. I'm not sure how much of the alt-leveling experience I'll want to repeat. If leveling alts isn't fun, then that will kill a huge reason to keep playing the game for me. The rest will depend on how much chasing Transmog will be. I do love doing the achievements. I find them fun.
Maybe this game needs to stop adding vertical progression. Squash their stats and formulas one last time and cap the power. Put an end to that sort of progression.
This thread has me thinking seriously about Suzie's idea that MMORPGs should have a shelf life and what that can mean. I'm starting to think every MMO should have a progression stopping point. No matter how long you want to keep the game servers open or add story elements, at some point vertical progression needs to stop. Maybe WoW has hit that point.
I can get on board with "resetting" after so long and moving on to a new adventure ala tabletop adventures, but the cynic in me thinks that trend will see devs further shedding anything "massively multiplayer" about these titles and instead opting for even more small-group multiplayer content with an even heavier scripting focus.
I wouldn't enjoy that trend. I would enjoy a trend of a world where devs present an overarching story that's well-planned out ahead of time and is merely influenced by the actions of the players. Sort of like an entire server playing a role in choosing the game's "ending."
Not to pile on, but WoW suffers from two other issues above and beyond scaling. One, their "writing" has never been anything other than one step above (bad) fan fiction. That's fine, I can live with re-used tropes (Fallen Prince, Dragon) if the gameplay is above average.
The bigger issue, to me, is the lack of a persistent world. Once you hit 60, there is little to no reason (other than transmog farming) to go back to EK or Kalimdor. Once you hit 70, same with Outland. So on, and so on.
This means there is a ton of old content, that sits idle. Meanwhile the Devs had, FOR YEARS, put everyone on the express train to "end-game" (whether raids or latest expansion).
Now, they've changed the paradigm, but the old world is still old. Left neglected for a decade +, it has not aged well, and you have two options - slog through it, or cough up $60.
Or Blizzard could start be decent again and just unlock them. Argussian Reach has nothing to do with emo elves and yet, you need to be exalted with them.
The Argussian Reach are all the void-touched Broken from the Mac'Aree that are getting/have gotten void therapy from Alleria so they don't go completely mad. Void Elves are getting that same therapy & training. They're absolutely related if you had played the content.
Starting playing WOW with the Burning Crusade and sorry it is still the best expansion of this 14 year old game, first mistake Blizzard made was dumbing this game down in every aspect of the game, picking and choosing your own talents is an art in of itself, giving you an identity of somewhat while at the same time holding your interest changing them over and over again to get that right build. I have bought ever expansion simply because this was my first mmo the story of this game is awesome but the mmo has gone to crap utterly from crying whining five year olds and Blizzard cater to them. Again I will never understand why Blizzard didn't put this game on a updated platform updated engine with improved all around graphics combat and yes a talent system like the old days.
They did improve the graphics. The current content and character models are leaps and bounds beyond those in BC. Maybe they didn't improve enough for you personally. But you can't act like they are the same graphics from 2005.
WoW is experiencing what EQ has experienced...You can only go to a certain point with expansions and levels.....You can design a game for alot of levels but it has to be built that way from the ground up, not tacking on as you go.
I had a priest at 48 before the change and played her about 6 months ago and leveling was fun with multiple mobs and just knocking it out of the park which was enjoyable, I have just gone back on her to do a level today and now its mind numbingly boring and I can not over mob, take down time feels like 3 times as long and with a lot less mobs, it now feels very very grindy.
Playing: FFXIV Future: wishing for SWG 2, World of Warcraft Classic Played: Most current and extinct MMO's - 18 Years in....
Modern players don't want to do "MMORPG". They want to rocket to cap, do dailies, and grind instances (dungeons/raids/battleground/arenas). Blizzard can't make modern gamers and traditional mmo players happy at the same time in my opinion. They could but it would be massive effort and money they're not going to put into the game.
Catering towards 'modern players' is really what started WoW's retention issues. And really the entire genre's retention issues.
Vanilla WoW was about the journey. The scales really started to tip with WotLK, but by cataclysm the journey was almost completely removed.
When character progression resorts to just gear upgrading you cease being an MMORPG and instead are a MMOGG (Gear grind). If the original WoW never existed and the version we have now got released where 1-110 took a couple weeks the game would still do ok because the combat works and the game is well made, but it wouldnt be any bigger than ESO, GW2, or FFXIV
I think those issues have been ticking timebomb for a while now, at least since Panderia. The game systems don't scale well but they keep adding vertical progression and stretching it out. That's why the trunk of the skill tree is so sparse. They're trying to stretch something intended for 50 - 60 levels, at the most, out to well over 100 now. That has been apparent since around Panderia.
I do get the issue veteran accounts are experiencing. I'm not sure how much of the alt-leveling experience I'll want to repeat. If leveling alts isn't fun, then that will kill a huge reason to keep playing the game for me. The rest will depend on how much chasing Transmog will be. I do love doing the achievements. I find them fun.
Maybe this game needs to stop adding vertical progression. Squash their stats and formulas one last time and cap the power. Put an end to that sort of progression.
This thread has me thinking seriously about Suzie's idea that MMORPGs should have a shelf life and what that can mean. I'm starting to think every MMO should have a progression stopping point. No matter how long you want to keep the game servers open or add story elements, at some point vertical progression needs to stop. Maybe WoW has hit that point.
There's a reason why Mark Jacobs stuck with 50 levels in Dark Age of Camelot, and what's happened to World of Warcraft demonstrates well that reason.
Yeah, the gear look and progression was an issue as well for me. There is only so giant and glowy a sword should be. each expansion sets it back and then dials it up again.
If they seriously thought the leveling was the issue, then they are truly clueless. If anything, this is just delaying those slow leveling casuals another month or so until they actually see what the max level game is like... which is... degrading and grindy as all hell. Have uninstalled the game. Seen those island expeditions in Alpha and simply aren't into MOB PvP and trash farming. They need to do better. Heard the Azerite Armor leveling is going to be like Artifact Power grind, as well.
Will try FFXIV another month or so and see what happens, but I think I may be done with this genre.
For me, WoW was always about the journey. I only played when I leveled up a toon. Once it reached maxed, I didn't touch it again until the next exp unless it was a crafting toon. I don't raid and I don't like grinding out reps.
With the scaling and pruning of spells, it makes leveling a grind now. It feels like I'm not progressing in anything. I get that same feeling from ESO after they went to scaling. I really don't like any game that does it.
I re-subbed WoW one month to check out the scaling and have decided I don't like it and I'm not thrilled about the new exp coming. It looks like my days of WoW are over.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
I leveled all classes to 100 before Legion launched, but I haven't played since Mythic EN gave me the biggest Deja Vu of WotLK, a part of me is still curious to see how bad the leveling actually is.
The authors comment on ability rotation is worse than just that,i felt the rotation of ideas throughout the game and on many classes is just boring as heck.
Maybe there is a class i never played that is actually fun,i doubt it,still too many bad classes and just overall boring design that LACKS more abilities/spells/depth.
The mention of using same rotation from level 110 and at 40 seems logical since choice is really lacking.
I played the extreme 5/6/7 hotbars in EQ2 to only two hidden off screen in FFXI,i much prefer FFXI because it offers more than just a swing of 3 button presses but not too much.
Then added layers like food is done copy cat in Wow like EQ series is just bad,gear swapping in FFXI is amazing but not totally needed.
Wow is imo just far behind in depth and the rest is just EQ copycat and pets/Hunter a class i want to like is done very poorly and worse than it used to be and less fun than used to be,so Blizzard is making a dull game even worse.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
Throw in misuse of scaling, and one has the current dismal mess. Its too bad, as it was once a great, and enjoyable game.
Changing streams so drastically over a decade after the game's release was sure to unearth some new issues. As for the solution, I don't have a good one, either. WoW has already let the boat sail on ensuring they keep the leveling process fresh from start to finish, so any attempts to swim back to shore will likely end with more issues.
I wouldn't enjoy that trend. I would enjoy a trend of a world where devs present an overarching story that's well-planned out ahead of time and is merely influenced by the actions of the players. Sort of like an entire server playing a role in choosing the game's "ending."
The bigger issue, to me, is the lack of a persistent world. Once you hit 60, there is little to no reason (other than transmog farming) to go back to EK or Kalimdor. Once you hit 70, same with Outland. So on, and so on.
This means there is a ton of old content, that sits idle. Meanwhile the Devs had, FOR YEARS, put everyone on the express train to "end-game" (whether raids or latest expansion).
Now, they've changed the paradigm, but the old world is still old. Left neglected for a decade +, it has not aged well, and you have two options - slog through it, or cough up $60.
Playing: FFXIV
Future: wishing for SWG 2, World of Warcraft Classic
Played: Most current and extinct MMO's - 18 Years in....
Interesting Fact - I own 27 Tarantula's
Vanilla WoW was about the journey. The scales really started to tip with WotLK, but by cataclysm the journey was almost completely removed.
When character progression resorts to just gear upgrading you cease being an MMORPG and instead are a MMOGG (Gear grind). If the original WoW never existed and the version we have now got released where 1-110 took a couple weeks the game would still do ok because the combat works and the game is well made, but it wouldnt be any bigger than ESO, GW2, or FFXIV
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Will try FFXIV another month or so and see what happens, but I think I may be done with this genre.
With the scaling and pruning of spells, it makes leveling a grind now. It feels like I'm not progressing in anything. I get that same feeling from ESO after they went to scaling. I really don't like any game that does it.
I re-subbed WoW one month to check out the scaling and have decided I don't like it and I'm not thrilled about the new exp coming. It looks like my days of WoW are over.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
Does the new system take longer than 96 hours?
Maybe there is a class i never played that is actually fun,i doubt it,still too many bad classes and just overall boring design that LACKS more abilities/spells/depth.
The mention of using same rotation from level 110 and at 40 seems logical since choice is really lacking.
I played the extreme 5/6/7 hotbars in EQ2 to only two hidden off screen in FFXI,i much prefer FFXI because it offers more than just a swing of 3 button presses but not too much.
Then added layers like food is done copy cat in Wow like EQ series is just bad,gear swapping in FFXI is amazing but not totally needed.
Wow is imo just far behind in depth and the rest is just EQ copycat and pets/Hunter a class i want to like is done very poorly and worse than it used to be and less fun than used to be,so Blizzard is making a dull game even worse.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.