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Guild Wars 2 - Metabattle is Ruining PvP in GW2 - MMORPG.com
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
Guild Wars 2 - Metabattle is Ruining PvP in GW2 - MMORPG.com
There’s an undercurrent of PvP fanatics in GW2 that believe there is only one correct way to play a class in structured PvP, and that’s the MetaBattle way. If you pray to the holy MetaBattle gods to tell you what to play, I have some startling news for you, you’re ruining PvP.
Comments
In reality some people may prefer other builds because they perform better with those but in the communities eyes, they would rather you were inefficient with a meta build than being efficient with a non meta build. It isn't really just PvP that this happens with as anyone doing pug fractals or raids will tell you that you need a particular class and build or else you will get vote kicked.
My major issue is with the "balance" team and the lack of it. I know an mmorpg will never be balanced per say but GW2 "balance" team doesn't even come close to attempting the balance of long standing issue's. Like Necro getting booted out of end game PvE group content for over 5 years now, which is just one example of many. They would rather do sweeping changes to classes or issues that are non urgent or that hardly anyone is complaining about.
That being said, the PvP in GW 2 was terrible from Day One, so this isn't really a surprise. GW 1 did a superb job of balancing PvP, but ANet threw the baby out with the bathwater when they made this "sequel."
Yep, it's a class based game. MMO PvP is a tough thing to do right. There will always be balance issues.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Meanwhile, after 3 weeks of playing I could see that the meta had changed so heavily in favor of stacking as many scourge necro's as you could to instant kill/lag-out your enemies. Safe to say I left, as the shorter the ttk(time to kill) the worse a game is imo.
21 year MMO veteran
PvP Raid Leader
Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
Once you understand the ins and outs of both the pve and pvp of the game you can generally run any build you want, so long as the end result is the same; you win.
Its easy to blame a loss in a pvp match on the person whose playing some thrown on experimental build. Like playing a minstrel support thief during a ranked match, when playing as a roamer/ decapper is thief way more useful. However, this kind of logic can be present anywhere no matter what you are doing unless its solo.
Must also remember that GW2 is far more skill based, some builds easier than others. But if someone is running a metabattle build and has no idea on how to play it, and is facing someone who is running a off meta build but is way more skilled; the skilled player will always win.
At least part of the reason for the toxic nature of current gaming, is people forgetting that this is supposed to be FUN, and that fun is different things to different people.
Yes, I know, some people may claim that using add on's is fun... I consider them to be Heretics from the One True Path of Fun...
their decisions,they are in this to quickly get games out to make money and NO other reason.
Players don't ruin games,the developer does,if they design a game that allows players do whatever,cheat,be toxic,exploit,whatever it is all on the developer.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
But those folks get copied for their builds and that becomes "the meta," so unless they are really masters of form -- strategy, tactics, speed, reflex and intangibles that can't be put on a build sheet -- their advantage is eaten up quickly by imitators.
In any game where depth strategy, tactics, and reaction time,... is of limited advantage (and pvp in GW arena is one of these -- teamwork isn't required either, per a eSports level MOBA, say), "the meta" is going to be a vast majority of your advantage.
People who don't depend on "the meta" are usually "what's for dinner," unless they are really good. What's ruining PVP in GW arena (and a lot of games) is lack of dimension.
That's also is a commercial benefit, if you think of it -- it keeps more people engaged. Arena can't become a spectator sport where a few people compete and others press their noses against the glass. Ranking is hard design, and a feeling of progression is vital in PVP, because people don't want to fight a harder opponent than an AI and always lose, so the lower ranks need some kind of -- something -- to keep people engaged.
In terms of game design, wouldn't that be making sure that various builds depend on even matches and RNG on wins for balance? I wonder often enough if this isn't a feature in most games in terms of PVP balance design. A feature, not a bug, from the studio/dev POV.
It's one of the reasons I don't play arena PVP much, or in GW and various popular games at all, although it's been a couple years, and I suppose it could have changed. But it doesn't sound like it, lol.
Although to be brutally honest, I'm getting old (50s) and my twitch is aging out (I am your future, oh callow youths!
What is killing PvP, however, is a common problem in the gaming industry that crosses genres - the obsession with fast fights. Short ttk games are the opposite of nuanced, interesting gameplay, and they absolutely do not work with a control point game mode.
cause if you compete against players with the strongest and most efficient build, with your "fun build", eventually you will end up having a toxic team and getting stomped. and therefor you wont even be having fun but actually so pissed that you make posts on mmo websites.
also look at it from their sight of view. they use the strongest builds and try hard to win their games cause their goal is to rank up on those ladders or get the goddamn rewardsl. then they get teamed up with some really weak players who dont even really try their best to win. then boom they get ranked down and the effort and the time was for nothing. of course its not everything black and white but you get what i mean.
also note, i have no idea if any of the builds you mentioned are good or bad. i was just giving you an example of why ppl want you to pick from the better choices in competitive-ranked-teamgames
Sometimes the "strongest" build is just the easiest, fodder for the masses.
PvP is entirely optional in GW2 and there are places where it can be a leisurely, hassle-free activity like unranked or custom, ranked is the only place where PvP becomes a competition, are you really complaining that people play to win in a competition ?
I've found that in most MMOs, and specifically GW2 and Rift, that the 'meta' builds are decent, but not the best. ESO is another one. The 'meta' are just builds that everyone can easily play instantly without much effort.
The best builds are wildly unknown or tailored to playstyle. I have a Mage build in Rift that destroys every other build I've seen, especially in PvP, and I'm sure there are plenty excellent ones that I don't know about too for all classes.
Gamers need to understand that the best theorycrafters do 'not' share their findings. If you find a way to gain an advantage in a competitive situation, sharing it is stupid. If everyone is running around with 'the best'.. it isn't better than anything anymore. Plus, it'll just get nerfed.
That is just how it is now. Personally I just play how I like and ignore people that judge. I remember back in the day, when MMOs where new, there was no mod add-ons nor any place to look up content. There were no builds. That was the fun of playing MMOs, you learnt the game with friends, and sometimes you would be on one boss for weeks just learning the mechanics. When you finally beat her/him it was the greatest feeling of accomplishment with good friends working together as a team. Not these days. At least I have the memories:)
To say that a website based on sharing builds and promoting good playstyles (as well as telling you how to play a build) RUINS a game mode is absurd.
Outside of bronze, and maybe low silver, your 'player created' builds will be destroyed by anyone on these meta builds. That isn't a problem with Metabattle, its a problem with game balance. The builds Metabattle are putting as 'meta' are there because Legendary players, AT winners and monthly champs are running them to win, and the reason those high level players don't run MINION MANCERS (seriously, of all things, this is probably the worst example you could use) is because they will get destroyed for trying.
To be competitive in a game that has serious balance issues, you need to play the OP things. Because otherwise someone else will, and they will demolish you. Unless there is a huge skill gap (see- the kind found in low levels) then overtuned builds will always come out ahead.
Am i saying a professional player on staff ele won't destroy a rank 2 bunny rabbit player? of course not. But you put 2 high level players against each other, one on a meta build and one on (sigh) minion mancer? It's going to be an absolute stomp in favour of the meta builds.