You do need people to spend more time in the early content or you need to cut it down and add content were people spend their time instead.
I think you nailed it here.
Players rush to the end game because you no longer can outlevel content and gear becomes worth to farm. If these two points were true for the whole game we would have a winner concept.
I recently started to play WoW on a new private server and people talked on chat how running dungeons is waste of time coz exp/hour is better by grinding mobs and doing quests, especially for mages who don't really need gear for leveling up. That's everything what is wrong in MMORPGs.
Make playing the game worthwhile on every level and don't let your players to skip content.
I just don't think we need to get rid of questing because it has such issues, you just need better quests. Having them written by everybody including the teaboy does not help.
I just don't think we need to get rid of questing because it has such issues, you just need better quests. Having them written by everybody including the teaboy does not help.
Yeah, GW1 actually had amazing quests. Some do but kill x times x amount is lazy game making and most mmos do it as a major aspect of grinding lol
To solve all issues you need A LARGE GAME on release !!!! Everything solves itself.
- Many starting areas for diversity and replay value. - Keeps players in zones longer so they can make it their home for a few weeks. Many mid level zones for choices. - Large enough for thousands to play slow, yet thousands to rush to end game. - Little to no zoning, zoning breaks immersion. - Nothing wrong with tutorials 1-6 if the game take average 6 months. - 6 MONTHS !!!..... This is an mmorpg. - Nothing wrong with class chain quest, if your a level for days. This makes the solo quest .001% of the content and not even noticed. - Way more content and quest per level for choices and replay. - Tons of hard quest, Tons of easy quest, Tons of group quest, Tons of no fighting at all content.
To solve all issues you need A LARGE GAME on release !!!! Everything solves itself.
- Many starting areas for diversity and replay value. - Keeps players in zones longer so they can make it their home for a few weeks. Many mid level zones for choices. - Large enough for thousands to play slow, yet thousands to rush to end game. - Little to no zoning, zoning breaks immersion. - Nothing wrong with tutorials 1-6 if the game take average 6 months. - 6 MONTHS !!!..... This is an mmorpg. - Nothing wrong with class chain quest, if your a level for days. This makes the solo quest .001% of the content and not even noticed. - Way more content and quest per level for choices and replay. - Tons of hard quest, Tons of easy quest, Tons of group quest, Tons of no fighting at all content.
For the haters ?....... It's 2018, we should have at least 20 other style mmorpg's that are LARGE !!!
Sounds like a game for everyone, only with more options so you don't have to smell same flowers on your next run.
What we need is a game that fights back with tooth and nail to ensure no player will level up ever unless they're willing to put some serious effort for it, and i don't mean the game has to be difficult, i mean it should take time until they are ready to advance in the game.
If the game is gear based the gearing up should begin on level 1, not on max level. Don't want to run dungeons or other group content? Too bad, you'll hit the brick wall very soon. Oh, this is what you call 'forced grouping'? Well, i have a newsflash for you: They call it Massively Multiplayer Game for a reason.
Jokes aside, games has to challenge us players. The best reward you can have is to see new content: new zone, new dungeon, new mobs, etc. If you can see it eventually anyway regardless of your past achievements in game the game is broken (or at least pointless).
Millions of people have played these games for almost their whole life and have learnt the ropes thoroughly. Yet the companies still keep simplifying and watering them down for us. Less skills, less stats, more convenience, more automation. These games are now nothing more than a digital version of Whac-a-Mole, and that gets old very soon.
I just don't think we need to get rid of questing because it has such issues, you just need better quests. Having them written by everybody including the teaboy does not help.
Yeah, GW1 actually had amazing quests. Some do but kill x times x amount is lazy game making and most mmos do it as a major aspect of grinding lol
For me the slap in the face from GW2 is that you don't even have to read details about the quest unless you want to. Yes I know a lot of players see text and click Next, but GW2 encouraged people to not see anything at all. That really was a game breaker for me, I can understand a sandbox trying to do without quests, but a thempark relegating the reason for quests to a "has been" was awful.
I just don't think we need to get rid of questing because it has such issues, you just need better quests. Having them written by everybody including the teaboy does not help.
Quests written by the tea boy might be more fun than those written by professionals provided that they aren't censored. Part of the issue with questing in modern games is that there are such tight restrictions on what is allowed to be said for amusement (fear of someone being offended). It's also to with the structure of the quests IMO. They are not presented in a very interesting way. It is usually walk up to NPC, click, go kill, return. There aren't any cut scenes or anything of that nature.
kind of a strange view OP. Lots of new people start playing mmorpg games every day so they need that tutorial. Most new games have an option to turn off tutorials, but that is how they introduce the game mechanics to you.
Well OP you seemed to have missed out on the fact that higher level is NOT more fun,it is the EXACT same thing as level 1.
Your stats simply adjust to what you are expected to fight at that current level. I actually feel lower levels are often more fun just because game play is less automatic. At low levels some mobs are aggro some are not but in most mmorpg's MOST already around level 20+ are always aggro which is a LAZY approach to game design.
MOST games also can just be lumped together doing the same thing,press 1 3 2 or 2 1 3 or 123 really is that sad and simple. Also MOST NEW abilities or spells are really the exact same thing again with a new animation and new dmg number but in essence you could close your eyes and it's doing the same thing.
There is more to gaming and combat than just fun and in MOST cases they are all Wow clones,errand quests all the way along,no wonder players want to do instances,sad sack boring instances can't help but me more exciting than fetch me errand quests.
i agree with everything right up until you said "WoW clone"
I just don't think we need to get rid of questing because it has such issues, you just need better quests. Having them written by everybody including the teaboy does not help.
Quests written by the tea boy might be more fun than those written by professionals provided that they aren't censored. Part of the issue with questing in modern games is that there are such tight restrictions on what is allowed to be said for amusement (fear of someone being offended). It's also to with the structure of the quests IMO. They are not presented in a very interesting way. It is usually walk up to NPC, click, go kill, return. There aren't any cut scenes or anything of that nature.
Thing is everybody and the teaboy is what we have now, the days of professional writers doing most of the quests has long gone.
I just don't think we need to get rid of questing because it has such issues, you just need better quests. Having them written by everybody including the teaboy does not help.
Quests written by the tea boy might be more fun than those written by professionals provided that they aren't censored. Part of the issue with questing in modern games is that there are such tight restrictions on what is allowed to be said for amusement (fear of someone being offended). It's also to with the structure of the quests IMO. They are not presented in a very interesting way. It is usually walk up to NPC, click, go kill, return. There aren't any cut scenes or anything of that nature.
Thing is everybody and the teaboy is what we have now, the days of professional writers doing most of the quests has long gone.
The stories seem pretty stale to me. They use the play it safe method. I can't imagine games like Baldur's Gate had professional writers. It sounded more like a lot of akward moments popped up that no writer who didn't want to be shamed on Facebook would put in a game. Still those were the moments that made some RPGs worth playing IMO. You can still find games with such dialogue, but they are usually small indie games that are like fan fictions.
To solve all issues you need A LARGE GAME on release !!!! Everything solves itself.
- Many starting areas for diversity and replay value. - Keeps players in zones longer so they can make it their home for a few weeks. Many mid level zones for choices. - Large enough for thousands to play slow, yet thousands to rush to end game. - Little to no zoning, zoning breaks immersion. - Nothing wrong with tutorials 1-6 if the game take average 6 months. - 6 MONTHS !!!..... This is an mmorpg. - Nothing wrong with class chain quest, if your a level for days. This makes the solo quest .001% of the content and not even noticed. - Way more content and quest per level for choices and replay. - Tons of hard quest, Tons of easy quest, Tons of group quest, Tons of no fighting at all content.
For the haters ?....... It's 2018, we should have at least 20 other style mmorpg's that are LARGE !!!
I very strongly disagree with the no zoning thing. EQ had zoning, yet was also one of the most immersive MMORPGs, if the THE most immersive. If it makes the game work better, than zoning is fine. Vanguard probably would have failed hard anyway because it was a clunky mess, but they would have been FAR better off with proper zoning instead. I'm on board with everything else.
I hate trying an MMO and they nearly all start out the same. WSAD for this, heres your map etc etc. Go kill 20 bees etc learn the ropes. I would really like an option that asks: Are you experienced playing MMOs? if yes you jump straight into much higher level fun content. When looking for a new MMO home it would save so much time lol. Do any decent MMOs that I've missed have this option? Thanks
While agree that to a large degree if you've played one MMO you've played 99% of the rest of them, the problem isn't so much that they assume we haven't played their game before. The problem is that their game is so unoriginal we have.
I WANT to play a new game. Not just a rehashing of one I've played many times before.
Seamless open world, with optional questing. I prefer the style of the more you do it the better you are at it and doing anything gives experience/progression. The tutorials are pointless these days. It's also nice to have new people in game ask others for advice, it adds a social layer that many mmos desperately need these days. Anyone serious about learning a game uses other resources such as dedicated guide sites or YouTube vids for the real info they need to improve.
Seems like an odd thing to complain about for something that takes 15-30 minutes tops in a game you're likely to play for several hundred hours.
Also, I've never played 2 MMOs that were 100% exactly the same. There's always some new twist they feature in the tutorial, small though the difference may be.
But any self respecting MMO should let you skip it for alts in the same account.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Why are the mages on the 2nd floor and the rogues on the 1st floor? I don't really care heh. I am just making an observation.
This way they only have to nail down the items on one floor, for the rogues. Mages are on the top floor because if they destroy it, it only affects one floor of the building instead of the whole thing.
ESO lets you skip the first tutorial section, and the "tutorial" is not as onerous as in many other mmos either. Then once you finish the tutorial (or skip it), you can pretty much do anything you want.
Why are the mages on the 2nd floor and the rogues on the 1st floor? I don't really care heh. I am just making an observation.
This way they only have to nail down the items on one floor, for the rogues. Mages are on the top floor because if they destroy it, it only affects one floor of the building instead of the whole thing.
That's an interesting logic lol.
I was thinking Rogues would go to the floor with lap dancers and hair dressers.
Mages would go to the floor that had to do with intellectual thought. They are also known to be drama queens.
I hate trying an MMO and they nearly all start out the same. WSAD for this, heres your map etc etc. Go kill 20 bees etc learn the ropes. I would really like an option that asks: Are you experienced playing MMOs? if yes you jump straight into much higher level fun content. When looking for a new MMO home it would save so much time lol. Do any decent MMOs that I've missed have this option? Thanks
In Vendetta Online on the fifth mission in some pilots will have the opportunity to go after a much more difficult objective than most would be able to handle:
Training 1 -> Training 2 -> Training 3 -> Basic Flight Status Test -> Help! Rogue Queen Detected
You don't have to pass it, it is optional, but in generic MMO speak you are basically given a chance at a level 5 boss when you are level 1.
It is a feasible objective given the Newtonian, skill-based nature of the game. Some pilots may just be that good even though most would get slaughtered.
The missions in general follow a web like structure rather than a linear path; it is a sandbox.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
I don't like tutorials that rush you. Hurry! Hurry! The Castle is on fire!!! I don't want to hurry when I just appeared in the world.
I also don't like when you get weapons and armor from doing the tutorial, because that means you basically have to do it or walk around naked for a while.
My preference is how original EQ did it. There was a note in my bag that said for me to look for someone. That was it lol. Awesome tutorial.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
yeah, yeah, tutorial is boring and all that, I still read it all just so if they have not give something else new or any tips there for me.
and btw if tutorial was not needed or anything else, pray tell me why there is always people asking the same damn questions over and over who was mentioned on the tutorials?
yeah, yeah, tutorial is boring and all that, I still read it all just so if they have not give something else new or any tips there for me.
and btw if tutorial was not needed or anything else, pray tell me why there is always people asking the same damn questions over and over who was mentioned on the tutorials?
It's the same old RTFM that has been around forever. Except now it's "DTDT... do the damn tutorial" instead of RTFM.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
Players rush to the end game because you no longer can outlevel content and gear becomes worth to farm. If these two points were true for the whole game we would have a winner concept.
I recently started to play WoW on a new private server and people talked on chat how running dungeons is waste of time coz exp/hour is better by grinding mobs and doing quests, especially for mages who don't really need gear for leveling up. That's everything what is wrong in MMORPGs.
Make playing the game worthwhile on every level and don't let your players to skip content.
To solve all issues you need A LARGE GAME on release !!!! Everything solves itself.
- Many starting areas for diversity and replay value.
- Keeps players in zones longer so they can make it their home for a few weeks. Many mid level zones for choices.
- Large enough for thousands to play slow, yet thousands to rush to end game.
- Little to no zoning, zoning breaks immersion.
- Nothing wrong with tutorials 1-6 if the game take average 6 months.
- 6 MONTHS !!!..... This is an mmorpg.
- Nothing wrong with class chain quest, if your a level for days. This makes the solo quest .001% of the content and not even noticed.
- Way more content and quest per level for choices and replay.
- Tons of hard quest, Tons of easy quest, Tons of group quest, Tons of no fighting at all content.
Vanilla-World-of-Warcraft 2004.....What happened ?
For the haters ?....... It's 2018, we should have at least 20 other style mmorpg's that are LARGE !!!
What we need is a game that fights back with tooth and nail to ensure no player will level up ever unless they're willing to put some serious effort for it, and i don't mean the game has to be difficult, i mean it should take time until they are ready to advance in the game.
If the game is gear based the gearing up should begin on level 1, not on max level. Don't want to run dungeons or other group content? Too bad, you'll hit the brick wall very soon. Oh, this is what you call 'forced grouping'? Well, i have a newsflash for you: They call it Massively Multiplayer Game for a reason.
Jokes aside, games has to challenge us players. The best reward you can have is to see new content: new zone, new dungeon, new mobs, etc. If you can see it eventually anyway regardless of your past achievements in game the game is broken (or at least pointless).
Millions of people have played these games for almost their whole life and have learnt the ropes thoroughly. Yet the companies still keep simplifying and watering them down for us. Less skills, less stats, more convenience, more automation. These games are now nothing more than a digital version of Whac-a-Mole, and that gets old very soon.
For me the slap in the face from GW2 is that you don't even have to read details about the quest unless you want to. Yes I know a lot of players see text and click Next, but GW2 encouraged people to not see anything at all. That really was a game breaker for me, I can understand a sandbox trying to do without quests, but a thempark relegating the reason for quests to a "has been" was awful.
i agree with everything right up until you said "WoW clone"
Thing is everybody and the teaboy is what we have now, the days of professional writers doing most of the quests has long gone.
I WANT to play a new game. Not just a rehashing of one I've played many times before.
Nintendo is the worse for their tutorials.
Also, I've never played 2 MMOs that were 100% exactly the same. There's always some new twist they feature in the tutorial, small though the difference may be.
But any self respecting MMO should let you skip it for alts in the same account.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Agree with Jean-luc, with the Hum, no.
EQ it self is an immersive game, giving credit to the game itself, not because it had zoning.
Same for several games that were immersive that would be even better seamless. I'll stop here, people don't seem to like my detailed breakdowns
I was thinking Rogues would go to the floor with lap dancers and hair dressers.
Mages would go to the floor that had to do with intellectual thought. They are also known to be drama queens.
Training 1 -> Training 2 -> Training 3 -> Basic Flight Status Test -> Help! Rogue Queen Detected
You don't have to pass it, it is optional, but in generic MMO speak you are basically given a chance at a level 5 boss when you are level 1.
It is a feasible objective given the Newtonian, skill-based nature of the game. Some pilots may just be that good even though most would get slaughtered.
The missions in general follow a web like structure rather than a linear path; it is a sandbox.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
I don't like tutorials that rush you. Hurry! Hurry! The Castle is on fire!!! I don't want to hurry when I just appeared in the world.
I also don't like when you get weapons and armor from doing the tutorial, because that means you basically have to do it or walk around naked for a while.
My preference is how original EQ did it. There was a note in my bag that said for me to look for someone. That was it lol. Awesome tutorial.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
and btw if tutorial was not needed or anything else, pray tell me why there is always people asking the same damn questions over and over who was mentioned on the tutorials?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED