Oh I'm not jealous. I'll be earning mine instead of paying idiotic amounts of cash for them.
This argument really draws it's roots from anti-capitalist sentiment.
In general, money is proof you provided a good or service to the benefit of others and they rewarded you with that money. While there are some outlier exceptions to this such as thieves and scam artists, it's generally true hence money is earned.
So the concept that people did not earn things which they pay for in cash and did earn things they sacrificed large amounts of time to earn in-game is at it's heart a socialist concept, and one I don't buy into.
I earned my original Star Citizen ships caring for seniors. I now own some I earned playing the grey market but I actually have less money invested in the game now than I originally did because I used most my grey market money to finance a move to be with fiancé. I certainly feel I earned those assets. If you would rather change adult diapers while I play games lets trade places.
Otherwise lets drop this pretense I didn't "earn" the ships I paid for.
Oh I'm not jealous. I'll be earning mine instead of paying idiotic amounts of cash for them.
I lived in Ohio so I know what you mean. Won't do that again.
Every time Goonsquad/SA/DS post salt on Star Citizen, I spend more money on it. Every time a mentally disturbed former backer or Elite CMDR toxic emo comments, I spend more money on it. Every time they refuse to answer why they spend so much time arguing about a game they don't even like, I spend more money on it. Want to watch the world burn because you can't have your way? You got whats coming to you.
Oh I'm not jealous. I'll be earning mine instead of paying idiotic amounts of cash for them.
This argument really draws it's roots from anti-capitalist sentiment.
In general, money is proof you provided a good or service to the benefit of others and they rewarded you with that money. While there are some outlier exceptions to this such as thieves and scam artists, it's generally true hence money is earned.
So the concept that people did not earn things which they pay for in cash and did earn things they sacrificed large amounts of time to earn in-game is at it's heart a socialist concept, and one I don't buy into.
I earned my original Star Citizen ships caring for seniors. I now own some I earned playing the grey market but I actually have less money invested in the game now than I originally did because I used most my grey market money to finance a move to be with fiancé. I certainly feel I earned those assets. If you would rather change adult diapers while I play games lets trade places.
Otherwise lets drop this pretense I didn't "earn" the ships I paid for.
Lol, the whale justification....
No one cares if you washed public toilets with a worn-out toothbrush, you're still haven't earned those ships in game, instead you've taken the easy route and wallet warriored your way to getting a head start over other players. Nothing will alter that.
Pay-to-Win in games is fine because I earned my money by doing X-line of work. It's also fine re-selling in-game assets you've bought with real cash in order to make a profit, undermining the pay-to-win practices of the dev company you claim to support.
Lol. What, is grinding through generic activities equivalent to winning an olympic gold medal or a college degree?
These ships can be earned in-game by mining, trading, running missions whatever. Not all of those tasks are challenging so basically you can get them by running through the motions. It's not like they are selling trophies that recognize you for some amazing achievement.
Your defense of in-game grinding like it's some sacred task that earns you special rights that are inherently more important than earning money IRL is delusional and pathetic.
"The easy way" lol. The easy way is sitting on your butt playing a video game.
The in-game assets I bought were no longer available to be purchased through RSI when I sold them. But the most important thing to me at the moment was that I was living thousands of miles from the person I loved. I sold those assets and used them to remedy that. If RSI took a slight hit I don't feel to bad even though I like them because I like my fiance better and they were my legally owned assets to sell. I doubt it hurt them at all because I gave them the money during the initial kickstarter when they were trying to prove this was a serious project, and sold them after their crowdfunding movement had exploded. Either way a man has to have priorities, and the woman he cares about should come before video games.
It's amazing I'm having to explain these concepts to presumably grown men getting so out of shape over how things were earned in a video game.
it's not often you see an avid SC fan admit so openly that SC is pay to win and that grey market manipulation is ok.
It's refreshing to see such honesty coming from the defender camp... I wonder how others will react... it at all.
A popcorn-worthy moment anyway.
Pay-to-win ?
Errmmm ... this is still Alpha ... game has not launched yet .... it will be hard to "win" something that has not even officially started yet.
Pray tell ... how exactly is someone "winning the game" by possessing a Tanker spaceship ? Or an exploration rover ? A data runner ship ? A scrap scavenger hauler ?
But hey ... the official "Pay to win" thread on the official forum has only 500+ pages yet with a few tenthousand comments. I am sure you will add a substantial input to that discussion, providing a fresh new look on this debate.
it's not often you see an avid SC fan admit so openly that SC is pay to win and that grey market manipulation is ok.
It's refreshing to see such honesty coming from the defender camp... I wonder how others will react... it at all.
A popcorn-worthy moment anyway.
Pay-to-win ?
Errmmm ... this is still Alpha ... game has not launched yet .... it will be hard to "win" something that has not even officially started yet.
Pray tell ... how exactly is someone "winning the game" by possessing a Tanker spaceship ? Or an exploration rover ? A data runner ship ? A scrap scavenger hauler ?
But hey ... the official "Pay to win" thread on the official forum has only 500+ pages yet with a few tenthousand comments. I am sure you will add a substantial input to that discussion, providing a fresh new look on this debate.
Have fun
So in the age of early-access, a game can't be P2W because it hasn't officially launched yet?
As for how to win the game... sure. I'll tell you. If your in-game aim is to get a tanker spaceship, then you p2w by getting out your credit card and buying it instead of grinding through missions to get it.
If your aim is to be an explorer, then you get out your credit card and buy a specialized exploration ship and get a huge headstart on those silly peasants that need to play/grind through starting ships to get to the ship you're flying.
Not sure why you mention the official thread on P2W... surely people can mention and discuss it outside that thread.
Oh I'm not jealous. I'll be earning mine instead of paying idiotic amounts of cash for them.
Aren't you a backer? You're one of those people "paying idiotic amounts of cash" for pixels lol
It's thank to these people "paying idiotic amounts of cash" that we have so many of these ship's already, that they are so detailed you can actually walk around and inside them, that all of them have their own detailed and personal damage states, that planetary landings is not a paid addon but part of the basic package, that multicrew is seamless and that EVA is a thing, that stealing, borrowing and flying any ship you can get your hand on is a thing...
Don't be grumpy because people choose to spend more money on Star Citizen than you. Sure many have certainly done it to start the game playing the way they want while other's might have done so just to extend their support for the game.
Do you think that gamers with only the main ed game are angry at you for buying horizons and getting the advantages that come with it?
Also you haven't earned your ship by playing the game either, nobody has so that's add's a bit to the nonsense lol
So in the age of early-access, a game can't be P2W because it hasn't officially launched yet?
As for how to win the game... sure. I'll tell you. If your in-game aim is to get a tanker spaceship, then you p2w by getting out your credit card and buying it instead of grinding through missions to get it.
If your aim is to be an explorer, then you get out your credit card and buy a specialized exploration ship and get a huge headstart on those silly peasants that need to play/grind through starting ships to get to the ship you're flying.
Not sure why you mention the official thread on P2W... surely people can mention and discuss it outside that thread.
So are you saying that ED is pay2win if my aim is to personalize my avatar and customize my ship exactly the way I want?
So in the age of early-access, a game can't be P2W because it hasn't officially launched yet? ask me how you will win the game and i will teach you man.
it's not often you see an avid SC fan admit so openly that SC is pay to win and that grey market manipulation is ok.
It's refreshing to see such honesty coming from the defender camp... I wonder how others will react... it at all.
A popcorn-worthy moment anyway.
Pay-to-win ?
Errmmm ... this is still Alpha ... game has not launched yet .... it will be hard to "win" something that has not even officially started yet.
Pray tell ... how exactly is someone "winning the game" by possessing a Tanker spaceship ? Or an exploration rover ? A data runner ship ? A scrap scavenger hauler ?
But hey ... the official "Pay to win" thread on the official forum has only 500+ pages yet with a few tenthousand comments. I am sure you will add a substantial input to that discussion, providing a fresh new look on this debate.
Have fun
So in the age of early-access, a game can't be P2W because it hasn't officially launched yet?
As for how to win the game... sure. I'll tell you. If your in-game aim is to get a tanker spaceship, then you p2w by getting out your credit card and buying it instead of grinding through missions to get it.
If your aim is to be an explorer, then you get out your credit card and buy a specialized exploration ship and get a huge headstart on those silly peasants that need to play/grind through starting ships to get to the ship you're flying.
Not sure why you mention the official thread on P2W... surely people can mention and discuss it outside that thread.
Fulfilling ones personal goal in a game is FAR FAR away from "winning a game" and "pay-to-win" (which ALWAYS refers to variants of PVP in a game). I can fullfill my personal goal with PvE alone - P2W has absolutely no influence on it.
it's not often you see an avid SC fan admit so openly that SC is pay to win and that grey market manipulation is ok.
It's refreshing to see such honesty coming from the defender camp... I wonder how others will react... it at all.
A popcorn-worthy moment anyway.
Pay-to-win ?
Errmmm ... this is still Alpha ... game has not launched yet .... it will be hard to "win" something that has not even officially started yet.
Pray tell ... how exactly is someone "winning the game" by possessing a Tanker spaceship ? Or an exploration rover ? A data runner ship ? A scrap scavenger hauler ?
But hey ... the official "Pay to win" thread on the official forum has only 500+ pages yet with a few tenthousand comments. I am sure you will add a substantial input to that discussion, providing a fresh new look on this debate.
Have fun
So in the age of early-access, a game can't be P2W because it hasn't officially launched yet?
As for how to win the game... sure. I'll tell you. If your in-game aim is to get a tanker spaceship, then you p2w by getting out your credit card and buying it instead of grinding through missions to get it.
If your aim is to be an explorer, then you get out your credit card and buy a specialized exploration ship and get a huge headstart on those silly peasants that need to play/grind through starting ships to get to the ship you're flying.
Not sure why you mention the official thread on P2W... surely people can mention and discuss it outside that thread.
Fulfilling ones personal goal in a game is FAR FAR away from "winning a game" and "pay-to-win" (which ALWAYS refers to variants of PVP in a game). I can fullfill my personal goal with PvE alone - P2W has absolutely no influence on it.
Have fun
What if my personal goal is to be top ze top PvP player in ze game? What if my personal goal is the definition you give to winning in SC? Would buying ships for cash help me achieve those goals compared to those who don't?
What if my personal goal is to be top ze top PvP player in ze game? What if my personal goal is the definition you give to winning in SC? Would buying ships for cash help me achieve those goals compared to those who don't?
It would help you nuffing.
Until you realize that you can fly only one ship, no matter how large, and groups flying smaller cheaper ships will "do bad things to you which we shall not mention here" ....
Well you're avoiding answering ze questions and just moving ze goal posts again
What about a group of people then who have all bought (with real money) the best ships for their role, compared to a group of the same number of people who still have the starter ships? Would the first group achieve "winning" easier? faster? better? Would you say the first group has an advantage over the second group in most if not all in-game scenarios?
it's not often you see an avid SC fan admit so openly that SC is pay to win and that grey market manipulation is ok.
It's refreshing to see such honesty coming from the defender camp... I wonder how others will react... it at all.
A popcorn-worthy moment anyway.
Pay-to-win ?
Errmmm ... this is still Alpha ... game has not launched yet .... it will be hard to "win" something that has not even officially started yet.
Pray tell ... how exactly is someone "winning the game" by possessing a Tanker spaceship ? Or an exploration rover ? A data runner ship ? A scrap scavenger hauler ?
But hey ... the official "Pay to win" thread on the official forum has only 500+ pages yet with a few tenthousand comments. I am sure you will add a substantial input to that discussion, providing a fresh new look on this debate.
Have fun
For one thing they will be light years ahead of those that wiat until launch, if that indeed ever happens.....I dont see how people that wait until launch can ever compete in this game.
@Erillion@MaxBacon So you are saying no MMO can have pay to win. It doesn't matter if you can buy top tier equip because there is no win in an MMO (especially in PvP games). This means there is no P2W in games at all and if there is a P2W then cosmetics are P2W, too.
If you sell power it's pay to win We always think of better ways to make money out of our games without interfering the player experience and player experience is not only YOUR experience it's the whole playerbase as is. To sell power is the easy way but leads to more problems like i.e. denial of a huge playerbase which can destroy your game in the long run.
Argument1: You can buy inGame currency but it is limited per day/week/month - You can buy 2 super hornets instead of 1 super hornets and CIG said the ships will raise in value if the game goes Beta/Gold. In fact you can buy whole fleets of ships and stack it up just to be sold later on to players/NPCs ingame. Other players will get an edge by buying them but you will always be ahead of them UEC wise. If you follow reddit this is what many players are plan to do.
Argument2: You can only buy a basic equipped ship hull, you need to quip it. - Same as above you can counter this at the moment by stacking up your fleet and sell later on.
Argument3: It is open world you can not win an MMO. - Winning is subjective, If I am a pirate, winning would be destroying other ships and get their loot. Better equipment allows me to do it more effectively. Winning for an explorer is simply travel distance without the need to return to get the most of the profession. Winning can also be to join a super hornet only guild and 100 other things, the reasons that you don't have any "winning" goals doesn't mean others won't have any, too.
Argument4: Everything will be buyable inGame later on - This does not change the fact that people who payed more money are always ahead of you. We have to assume the same base here between the players, to say "but the player who pays more maybe does not play that much" would be a strawman there. Lets say you didn't spent additional money, you have your Aurora which can carry a single crate. A slightly better ship can carry maybe 16 crates. The Aurora has to struggle because other players that plays outlaws will shoot you down with their top quipped Super Hornets (because they bought 2 and sold one to the players/NPCs) as soon as they want to do more risky missions which would not occur if there were no super hornets to buy to begin with. So the player with more capacity that stays in the safe zones will have a better experience. A procedural mission system is working against the aurora here i.e. 20 crates needs to be delivered Aurora can do 5% of this mission while a slightly better ship can do 80% with one run. And don't gett me started on top equipped Hull-E ships with various dropships in safe zones here (which is also possible from the start if you just bought enough assets with real money)
Argument5: The Economy will balance it out, 10/90 Player/NPC ratio - The Player/NPC ratio was meant to run on the galaxy server as an economy simulation, over the time it became that every active NPC (clerks and questgivers don't count into this) should have its own live. Well an AI is using more ressources than a player in this case you not only have to simulate the game mechanics, you have to process the AI decisions as well. In a game world that allows 1000 active entities you now have 100 players and 900 NPCs instead of 1000 players. And every NPC has to have 1000s of behaviour trees (unless CIG is using quantum computers which would allow more natural/dynamic behaviours). Nevertheless back to our economy. I have my top equipped Hull-E and my top equipped mining ship (because I bought them for real money / sold other stuff I bought before). And go 2 Days of hardcore mining in UEE zone. I can now dump sale 10.000 Units of Titanium into the market (maybe I have to change systems to do that because I saturated one system with Titanium) What should the other NPCs do now? Underbid me? Dumping 90.000 Units into the market? Send 9 pirate gangs to try to kill me in UEE zone? This won't be a good experience for our newbie miner because there are 9 NPCs who tries to hold up with me or try to ruin my real money bought game experience - both cases are destroying player experience.
Argument6: You can buy UEC ingame later on to fill the gap This is like beeing in the desert with a bucket of water while the others are having a party in the oasis. Paying for ingame currency does not counter the sale of every asset beforehand. If the players feel the need to spend money on UEC to restore their game experience then there is something wrong in the first place.
Argument7: I have no time to grind UEC This is tricky, because grind only occurs when your game has not enough content or is meant to be a grinding game, many MMOs are using this as a time sink because it is impossible to create content faster than the players playing it in an MMO (Single player games often tend to end at a point i.e. Uncharted4, are grinding games i.e. Diablo, are building games i.e. Minecraft or a combination of all above). Buying UEC is nullifying this border the player can consume the content faster but will get bored faster, too. Basically if you don't have time to play the game and you need to put money into it to have the game experience you want then there is something wrong.
Argument8: Everything is skill based an expensive ships do not make a good pilot Literally a strawman argument, good pilots can buy ships, too. To move the goalpost by changing the base does not help in this discussion.
----------------------------
I guess I forgot some arguments but essentially with the current system the people who paid real money have an edge that will hold down other players in every aspect on the game. They have the (bought) power to ruin the game experience for others.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
Well you're avoiding answering ze questions and just moving ze goal posts again
What about a group of people then who have all bought (with real money) the best ships for their role, compared to a group of the same number of people who still have the starter ships? Would the first group achieve "winning" easier? faster? better? Would you say the first group has an advantage over the second group in most if not all in-game scenarios?
The first group have an advantage for all of two weeks. In a game that people will most likely play for 10+ years (comparable to Star Wars Galaxies). I have played enough space games to know that its easy to quickly collect in game cash if you know what you are doing. And in the time and age of YouTube, anyone that cares can find out what they need to know.
Which in my opinion makes this "advantage" negligible.
And if the second group guys join the right group, they will get high end ships for free from their player org (from someone that supported crowdfunding to a higher level) - and those that get these loaner ships will only need a starter package themselves. And there will be zero advantage for Group 1 over Group 2 right from the start.
For one thing they will be light years ahead of those that wiat until launch, if that indeed ever happens.....I dont see how people that wait until launch can ever compete in this game.
The same way other people in other space games compete.
They join later, learn to play the game ... and after a few weeks or months they are as good as the rest. Sooner if they watch and learn from YouTube.
@Erillion So you are saying no MMO can have pay to win.
No that is not what i said.
Have fun
PS: As this is a thread about fan footage videos, i will not answer your P2W post in detail here. But we have a lot of P2W threads already here in this subforum - we can reopen one of those if you want. And rehash all the arguments again. What is it ... 22nd ? 23rd time ? ... in the last years ,,,,
Argument 9: 99% of all MMOs are pay-to-win by your standard. Gold trading is a prolific problem that almost no MMO is free of. That allows people to pay real money for an in-game-advantage. A system where everyone has access to it without the risk of an account ban is actually a more fair system.
Argument 10: What difference does it actually make to you if someone gets an advantage because they are unemployed and can afford to play every waking moment, or if they are someone who works really hard IRL and as a result has spare cash to put into the game? Either way they are going to have that advantage.
Argument 11: This isn't World or Warcraft. Neither is it ArcheAge. Flying a more expensive ship is no guarantee of victory. Bigger ships make tradeoffs in areas like hitbox size and maneuverability. If you simply buy an Idriss and expect to win but you and your crew don't have the playerskill to back it you may suffer the humiliation of dying to a single 1-man fighter. Not saying that having those ships isn't an advantage but I am saying it's way overstated. This game is 90% playerskill and 10% gear as opposed to most MMOs where it's 90% gear/character stats and 10% playerskill.
Yeah I think there is going to be a lot of tears on day 1 when people log in for the first time having played none of the content so far and discover it's very possible for a multi-hundred dollar ship to die to one guy in an aurora, mustang, avenger etc. who is well practiced in the use of their ship.
Personally I made the purchases I did because a super hornet is a 2 man fighter and I want to play with my fiance, the Carrack is a good deep space exploration ship I can enjoy with a small group of friends, and the Hull B can get me some cargo moved if I'm on alone.
If I was going fully for "What can kill somebody else the easiest" I might just get an avenger and get practiced as hell with it. Nice compromise between firepower and maneuverability. My SH is kind of a brick and the other two aren't meant for combat.
Comments
As likely as them being owned by Pope Francis...
Are you in this screenshot or something?
In general, money is proof you provided a good or service to the benefit of others and they rewarded you with that money. While there are some outlier exceptions to this such as thieves and scam artists, it's generally true hence money is earned.
So the concept that people did not earn things which they pay for in cash and did earn things they sacrificed large amounts of time to earn in-game is at it's heart a socialist concept, and one I don't buy into.
I earned my original Star Citizen ships caring for seniors. I now own some I earned playing the grey market but I actually have less money invested in the game now than I originally did because I used most my grey market money to finance a move to be with fiancé. I certainly feel I earned those assets. If you would rather change adult diapers while I play games lets trade places.
Otherwise lets drop this pretense I didn't "earn" the ships I paid for.
Lol, the whale justification....
No one cares if you washed public toilets with a worn-out toothbrush, you're still haven't earned those ships in game, instead you've taken the easy route and wallet warriored your way to getting a head start over other players. Nothing will alter that.
It's also fine re-selling in-game assets you've bought with real cash in order to make a profit, undermining the pay-to-win practices of the dev company you claim to support.
Everything is fine.
..Cake..
These ships can be earned in-game by mining, trading, running missions whatever. Not all of those tasks are challenging so basically you can get them by running through the motions. It's not like they are selling trophies that recognize you for some amazing achievement.
Your defense of in-game grinding like it's some sacred task that earns you special rights that are inherently more important than earning money IRL is delusional and pathetic.
"The easy way" lol. The easy way is sitting on your butt playing a video game.
It's amazing I'm having to explain these concepts to presumably grown men getting so out of shape over how things were earned in a video game.
It's refreshing to see such honesty coming from the defender camp... I wonder how others will react... it at all.
A popcorn-worthy moment anyway.
..Cake..
Pay-to-win ?
Errmmm ... this is still Alpha ... game has not launched yet .... it will be hard to "win" something that has not even officially started yet.
Pray tell ... how exactly is someone "winning the game" by possessing a Tanker spaceship ? Or an exploration rover ? A data runner ship ? A scrap scavenger hauler ?
But hey ... the official "Pay to win" thread on the official forum has only 500+ pages yet with a few tenthousand comments. I am sure you will add a substantial input to that discussion, providing a fresh new look on this debate.
Have fun
As for how to win the game... sure. I'll tell you. If your in-game aim is to get a tanker spaceship, then you p2w by getting out your credit card and buying it instead of grinding through missions to get it.
If your aim is to be an explorer, then you get out your credit card and buy a specialized exploration ship and get a huge headstart on those silly peasants that need to play/grind through starting ships to get to the ship you're flying.
Not sure why you mention the official thread on P2W... surely people can mention and discuss it outside that thread.
..Cake..
Aren't you a backer? You're one of those people "paying idiotic amounts of cash" for pixels lol
It's thank to these people "paying idiotic amounts of cash" that we have so many of these ship's already, that they are so detailed you can actually walk around and inside them, that all of them have their own detailed and personal damage states, that planetary landings is not a paid addon but part of the basic package, that multicrew is seamless and that EVA is a thing, that stealing, borrowing and flying any ship you can get your hand on is a thing...
Don't be grumpy because people choose to spend more money on Star Citizen than you. Sure many have certainly done it to start the game playing the way they want while other's might have done so just to extend their support for the game.
Do you think that gamers with only the main ed game are angry at you for buying horizons and getting the advantages that come with it?
Also you haven't earned your ship by playing the game either, nobody has so that's add's a bit to the nonsense lol
So are you saying that ED is pay2win if my aim is to personalize my avatar and customize my ship exactly the way I want?
Going back to the ToysTopic:
ask me how you will win the game and i will teach you man.
Have fun
What if my personal goal is the definition you give to winning in SC?
Would buying ships for cash help me achieve those goals compared to those who don't?
..Cake..
Until you realize that you can fly only one ship, no matter how large, and groups flying smaller cheaper ships will "do bad things to you which we shall not mention here" ....
Get a good crew, get a good team ... and ....
Have fun
What about a group of people then who have all bought (with real money) the best ships for their role, compared to a group of the same number of people who still have the starter ships? Would the first group achieve "winning" easier? faster? better?
Would you say the first group has an advantage over the second group in most if not all in-game scenarios?
..Cake..
So you are saying no MMO can have pay to win.
It doesn't matter if you can buy top tier equip because there is no win in an MMO (especially in PvP games).
This means there is no P2W in games at all and if there is a P2W then cosmetics are P2W, too.
If you sell power it's pay to win
We always think of better ways to make money out of our games without interfering the player experience and player experience is not only YOUR experience it's the whole playerbase as is. To sell power is the easy way but leads to more problems like i.e. denial of a huge playerbase which can destroy your game in the long run.
Argument1: You can buy inGame currency but it is limited per day/week/month
- You can buy 2 super hornets instead of 1 super hornets and CIG said the ships will raise in value if the game goes Beta/Gold. In fact you can buy whole fleets of ships and stack it up just to be sold later on to players/NPCs ingame. Other players will get an edge by buying them but you will always be ahead of them UEC wise. If you follow reddit this is what many players are plan to do.
Argument2: You can only buy a basic equipped ship hull, you need to quip it.
- Same as above you can counter this at the moment by stacking up your fleet and sell later on.
Argument3: It is open world you can not win an MMO.
- Winning is subjective, If I am a pirate, winning would be destroying other ships and get their loot. Better equipment allows me to do it more effectively. Winning for an explorer is simply travel distance without the need to return to get the most of the profession.
Winning can also be to join a super hornet only guild and 100 other things, the reasons that you don't have any "winning" goals doesn't mean others won't have any, too.
Argument4: Everything will be buyable inGame later on
- This does not change the fact that people who payed more money are always ahead of you. We have to assume the same base here between the players, to say "but the player who pays more maybe does not play that much" would be a strawman there.
Lets say you didn't spent additional money, you have your Aurora which can carry a single crate. A slightly better ship can carry maybe 16 crates. The Aurora has to struggle because other players that plays outlaws will shoot you down with their top quipped Super Hornets (because they bought 2 and sold one to the players/NPCs) as soon as they want to do more risky missions which would not occur if there were no super hornets to buy to begin with. So the player with more capacity that stays in the safe zones will have a better experience. A procedural mission system is working against the aurora here i.e. 20 crates needs to be delivered Aurora can do 5% of this mission while a slightly better ship can do 80% with one run. And don't gett me started on top equipped Hull-E ships with various dropships in safe zones here (which is also possible from the start if you just bought enough assets with real money)
Argument5: The Economy will balance it out, 10/90 Player/NPC ratio
- The Player/NPC ratio was meant to run on the galaxy server as an economy simulation, over the time it became that every active NPC (clerks and questgivers don't count into this) should have its own live. Well an AI is using more ressources than a player in this case you not only have to simulate the game mechanics, you have to process the AI decisions as well. In a game world that allows 1000 active entities you now have 100 players and 900 NPCs instead of 1000 players. And every NPC has to have 1000s of behaviour trees (unless CIG is using quantum computers which would allow more natural/dynamic behaviours).
Nevertheless back to our economy. I have my top equipped Hull-E and my top equipped mining ship (because I bought them for real money / sold other stuff I bought before). And go 2 Days of hardcore mining in UEE zone. I can now dump sale 10.000 Units of Titanium into the market (maybe I have to change systems to do that because I saturated one system with Titanium) What should the other NPCs do now? Underbid me? Dumping 90.000 Units into the market? Send 9 pirate gangs to try to kill me in UEE zone? This won't be a good experience for our newbie miner because there are 9 NPCs who tries to hold up with me or try to ruin my real money bought game experience - both cases are destroying player experience.
Argument6: You can buy UEC ingame later on to fill the gap
This is like beeing in the desert with a bucket of water while the others are having a party in the oasis. Paying for ingame currency does not counter the sale of every asset beforehand. If the players feel the need to spend money on UEC to restore their game experience then there is something wrong in the first place.
Argument7: I have no time to grind UEC
This is tricky, because grind only occurs when your game has not enough content or is meant to be a grinding game, many MMOs are using this as a time sink because it is impossible to create content faster than the players playing it in an MMO (Single player games often tend to end at a point i.e. Uncharted4, are grinding games i.e. Diablo, are building games i.e. Minecraft or a combination of all above).
Buying UEC is nullifying this border the player can consume the content faster but will get bored faster, too.
Basically if you don't have time to play the game and you need to put money into it to have the game experience you want then there is something wrong.
Argument8: Everything is skill based an expensive ships do not make a good pilot
Literally a strawman argument, good pilots can buy ships, too. To move the goalpost by changing the base does not help in this discussion.
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I guess I forgot some arguments but essentially with the current system the people who paid real money have an edge that will hold down other players in every aspect on the game. They have the (bought) power to ruin the game experience for others.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
Which in my opinion makes this "advantage" negligible.
And if the second group guys join the right group, they will get high end ships for free from their player org (from someone that supported crowdfunding to a higher level) - and those that get these loaner ships will only need a starter package themselves. And there will be zero advantage for Group 1 over Group 2 right from the start.
Have fun
They join later, learn to play the game ... and after a few weeks or months they are as good as the rest. Sooner if they watch and learn from YouTube.
Have fun
Have fun
PS:
As this is a thread about fan footage videos, i will not answer your P2W post in detail here. But we have a lot of P2W threads already here in this subforum - we can reopen one of those if you want. And rehash all the arguments again. What is it ... 22nd ? 23rd time ? ... in the last years ,,,,
Argument 10: What difference does it actually make to you if someone gets an advantage because they are unemployed and can afford to play every waking moment, or if they are someone who works really hard IRL and as a result has spare cash to put into the game? Either way they are going to have that advantage.
Argument 11: This isn't World or Warcraft. Neither is it ArcheAge. Flying a more expensive ship is no guarantee of victory. Bigger ships make tradeoffs in areas like hitbox size and maneuverability. If you simply buy an Idriss and expect to win but you and your crew don't have the playerskill to back it you may suffer the humiliation of dying to a single 1-man fighter. Not saying that having those ships isn't an advantage but I am saying it's way overstated. This game is 90% playerskill and 10% gear as opposed to most MMOs where it's 90% gear/character stats and 10% playerskill.
Personally I made the purchases I did because a super hornet is a 2 man fighter and I want to play with my fiance, the Carrack is a good deep space exploration ship I can enjoy with a small group of friends, and the Hull B can get me some cargo moved if I'm on alone.
If I was going fully for "What can kill somebody else the easiest" I might just get an avenger and get practiced as hell with it. Nice compromise between firepower and maneuverability. My SH is kind of a brick and the other two aren't meant for combat.