Those forums remind so much of the Vanguard Saga of Heroes forums back in the day. Most of the ones defending will probably vanish like farts in the wind once they try the finished game like VG oh so many years ago.
The one big reason this game will flop?
Xeyska Moderator- "Locked by request. "
So some backer can come in and be like "me feelers are hurt, lock this thread plz!"
Yeah this is gonna go over really well with the millennial "mememememe" crowd lol. I'm gonna come back to this thread so I can necro it in a few years for a good laugh.
Those forums remind so much of the Vanguard Saga of Heroes forums back in the day. Most of the ones defending will probably vanish like farts in the wind once they try the finished game like VG oh so many years ago.
The one big reason this game will flop?
Xeyska Moderator- "Locked by request. "
So some backer can come in and be like "me feelers are hurt, lock this thread plz!"
Yeah this is gonna go over really well with the millennial "mememememe" crowd lol. I'm gonna come back to this thread so I can necro it in a few years for a good laugh.
You seem to know quite a bit about how it was locked!
I saw the "Locked by request" post too
Do you have any evidence to support it was a backer who requested it to be locked, and the reason they gave for them wanting to have it locked?
Of course, such freedom to disent gets the site and its community labeled as a bunch of negativity full of "haters" which is the price they pay for permitting some freedom of expression.
You have got to admit tho.. gamers.. and more so video gamers, are whiny complaining little bitches.. for the most part.. the few that aren't are typically either apathetic or assholes.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
The only ones that have truly left are those who never said a single word on the forums. They just left. All those who spend even one moment on the forums return time and again. And they know it.
I used to believe this as well, until DDO went and screwed with raid loot.. I lost my shit on the forums.. and then quit the game. Haven't been back since, and never will go back, fuck them.
I also posted on the EQ forums.. but stopped playing in 2004, but that was it's own little thing.. with the Veeshan Uprising and some other stupid stuff, but I quit due to burn out and boredom, and never really had a bad thing to say about the game itself tho, there is that.
Sadly.. I am now dying out of GW2, and moving on to BDO.. but I can't stand BDO's UI... but. dammit they even have ass physics.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Afaik the only one that can request a lock on a thread is the OP. But why would the OP in this case want to lock the thread ... not to make anyone look bad, surely?
Afaik the only one that can request a lock on a thread is the OP. But why would the OP in this case want to lock the thread ... not to make anyone look bad, surely?
Yeah it's more likely that the OP requested to have the thread closed, to make the community look bad, rather than the mod just placing a generic statement as reason to why it was locked.
Most companies don't want constructive criticism, they want to hear how great they are.
I have never once worked at a company that didn't actively seek customer input.
Now I will say, not every company is positioned to act upon customer input in a meaningful way.
Not sure what weird ass companies you are working for!
That's what I was about to say: most all companies will at least pay lip service. But I've also seen legitimate feedback dismissed because it doesn't fit a key employee's "vision". Not as cut and dry as either Kano or Theo put it, mainly because we're talking about humans.
Most companies don't want constructive criticism, they want to hear how great they are.
I have never once worked at a company that didn't actively seek customer input.
Now I will say, not every company is positioned to act upon customer input in a meaningful way.
Not sure what weird ass companies you are working for!
That's what I was about to say: most all companies will at least pay lip service. But I've also seen legitimate feedback dismissed because it doesn't fit a key employee's "vision". Not as cut and dry as either Kano or Theo put it, mainly because we're talking about humans.
There's truth to that. If a company has a "vision" they will most likely stick to that vision.
Heck, I know my company has "a vision". But we are also very immersed in the whole NPS (Net Promoter Score) idea.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Most companies don't want constructive criticism, they want to hear how great they are.
I have never once worked at a company that didn't actively seek customer input.
Now I will say, not every company is positioned to act upon customer input in a meaningful way.
Not sure what weird ass companies you are working for!
The difference in my opinion is that this company is totally reliant on Crowdfunding. They need the hype to push their constant sales since they failed to attract a publisher. Their CEO even asked fans to go out to other forums and shut down criticism.
A company with secure funding can afford public criticism. A company with uncertain funding, reliant on players constantly pre-purchasing stuff from their store probably has to be less tolerant.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Most companies don't want constructive criticism, they want to hear how great they are.
I have never once worked at a company that didn't actively seek customer input.
Now I will say, not every company is positioned to act upon customer input in a meaningful way.
Not sure what weird ass companies you are working for!
That's what I was about to say: most all companies will at least pay lip service. But I've also seen legitimate feedback dismissed because it doesn't fit a key employee's "vision". Not as cut and dry as either Kano or Theo put it, mainly because we're talking about humans.
There's truth to that. If a company has a "vision" they will most likely stick to that vision.
Heck, I know my company has "a vision". But we are also very immersed in the whole NPS (Net Promoter Score) idea.
Agreed.
Not only that, but the idea that companies only look at constructive criticism really isn't telling the entire story either. We take surveys on denials; not because we expect customers to give us a business plan on how to do it better, but because even ranting and raving, there are trigger words that tell us how we can better help our customers understand denials so that, while they won't be happy with the outcome, they don't feel like we're attempting to cheat them.
Making threads here that discuss moderation on other forums is pointless.
The mods here cant do anything about moderation on other sites, and same with userbase here - this is mmorpg.com forums.
You are bringing over trash from other forums here.
Not sure why mmorpg.com even allows this.
A little surprised you would say this. These forums are for discussions about all things CoE as such this is a good place to talk or discuss this isn't it?
Doesn't matter if you or some people happen to dislike the subject matter of this particular thread.
Like they say, "one man's trash is another man's treasure!"
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Most companies don't want constructive criticism, they want to hear how great they are.
I have never once worked at a company that didn't actively seek customer input.
Now I will say, not every company is positioned to act upon customer input in a meaningful way.
Not sure what weird ass companies you are working for!
The difference in my opinion is that this company is totally reliant on Crowdfunding. They need the hype to push their constant sales since they failed to attract a publisher. Their CEO even asked fans to go out to other forums and shut down criticism.
A company with secure funding can afford public criticism. A company with uncertain funding, reliant on players constantly pre-purchasing stuff from their store probably has to be less tolerant.
Yeah but the thing with this company is that the CEO is unprofessional and comes across as a little boy.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
as stated there is a difference between constructive criticism and 'snarky' criticism
i see a lot of constructive criticism on these forums, however it is often interwoven with snarky criticism and human nature for many lumps it all into one ball
i didn't come here as a result of caspian's words, nor is it my intent to shut down criticism - i have often mentioned that skepticism can be a healthy thing
if my own agenda was to drown out (or outnumber) the voice of skeptics i would have the members of our community come and upvote all the positive posts and downvote the negative ones, make posts/threads etc - we have quite a few members:
it wouldn't "drown out" anything tbh, because people's beliefs are just that, their own personal beliefs and opinions
there are people that believe there is a good chance that CoE will succeed and and launch, there are people that believe there is a good chance that CoE will not launch, or if it does it will be in a very watered down or altered version
the ones that make me chuckle, on both sides, are the fanatical extremists, who "know" that the project is going to succeed or fail, and deny the possibility of the existence of any other outcome, because just like extremists at opposite ends of the political scale, they will do anything to get their own message across, and believe that theirs is the only one true opinion
however when i filter out some of the snarky/trollish comments be they about Gantt charts or Caspian's personality, sometimes there is a very valid point being made
personally i think it is easy to be a detractor, because historically progress in anything has been paved by countless, and i mean countless, episodes of failure
however many of the attempts helped pave the way for future success
and every now and then, one of those attempts succeeds, and of those, NOBODY knows ahead of time if that specific attempt will succeed or fail
Most companies don't want constructive criticism, they want to hear how great they are.
I have never once worked at a company that didn't actively seek customer input.
Now I will say, not every company is positioned to act upon customer input in a meaningful way.
Not sure what weird ass companies you are working for!
The difference in my opinion is that this company is totally reliant on Crowdfunding. They need the hype to push their constant sales since they failed to attract a publisher. Their CEO even asked fans to go out to other forums and shut down criticism.
A company with secure funding can afford public criticism. A company with uncertain funding, reliant on players constantly pre-purchasing stuff from their store probably has to be less tolerant.
Yeah but the thing with this company is that the CEO is unprofessional and comes across as a little boy.
I largely agree, but their behavior isn’t unique. And I don’t force myself into what I consider their safe space (their forums). IMHO if they want to delete every critical post on their forums they can. They shouldn’t, because they will simply be sealing their fate. I simply post occasionally over there to spark discussion and then step back. Honestly their Discord is much more militaristic than their forum. Just try and state anything that varies from the company line there and several community folks will jump on you. I have literally watched them chase potential customers away because they asked a question...
Its their ballgame though so you play by their rules there. Outside though... no... outside I will freely challenge them and call them on obvious impossibilities like their timeline.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
They need the hype to push their constant sales since they failed to attract a publisher.
let me correct this for you
SBS reached out to quite a few publishers, they also attracted a number of publishers who reached out to them first
SBS didn't come to an agreement with any of them that had terms that were agreeable to both the publisher and the developer, and decided to currently continue to develop the game independently as a result of the relatively strong support of the community backing the crowd funding
as of today the number is:
i don't think that we would find many people that believe that this number is anywhere close enough to bring to launch a project of this ambition
however factual data shows that crowd funding remains on an upward positive trend:
I don't have access to SBS's books for obvious reasons (and i don't think anybody else on these forums has either), so all i can do is speculate that SBS is going to try to rely on crowd funding to develop the game to a point where a lot of the financial risk, and therefore a lot of the control in development that publishers seek to have when backing/funding a game in the very early stages of development, is removed
it is a bold move that NOBODY "knows" if it will succeed or not
detractors will believe it was unwise and they should have secured a publisher upon any condition to ensure the game was published, even if it meant the game and its mechanics might be altered in dramatic ways
supporters will believe that it was a wise decision if it meant that the game will continue to be developed without compromise to its goals
personally i believe it's a good move since the option to go with a publisher is always on the table if you are willing to accept their terms - the further along you take the project, the more favorable those terms will be to the developer - i don't find fault in that - a publisher has every right to seek terms that favor them, a developer has every right to seek terms that favor them
the rest of us are the peanut gallery regardless of whether we are choosing to support the developer, or choosing to disagree with the developer
*Edited to correct some of the nasty typos and grammatical errors i am prone to making
That's what I was about to say: most all companies will at least pay lip service. But I've also seen legitimate feedback dismissed because it doesn't fit a key employee's "vision". Not as cut and dry as either Kano or Theo put it, mainly because we're talking about humans.
Yep, I've had this happen to me directly on a Test Server. From a generally beloved Developer too. At the moment it happened I seriously questioned how I was so wrong, am I that big an idiot? Afterward everyone else who saw it were like WTF (developer name) so it wasn't me being dumb, but feedback getting binned because it insulted a previously-unknown Sacred Cow.
Since then, holy crap it happens all the time, but that was the first time I got smacked in the face. The Square Enix devs are totally willing to soil the Wheaties publicly, no matter the legitimacy of a comment, Because Reasons! and I feel they are friendlier to feedback than other companies.
Most companies don't want constructive criticism, they want to hear how great they are.
I have never once worked at a company that didn't actively seek customer input.
Now I will say, not every company is positioned to act upon customer input in a meaningful way.
Not sure what weird ass companies you are working for!
The difference in my opinion is that this company is totally reliant on Crowdfunding. They need the hype to push their constant sales since they failed to attract a publisher. Their CEO even asked fans to go out to other forums and shut down criticism.
A company with secure funding can afford public criticism. A company with uncertain funding, reliant on players constantly pre-purchasing stuff from their store probably has to be less tolerant.
Yeah but the thing with this company is that the CEO is unprofessional and comes across as a little boy.
I largely agree, but their behavior isn’t unique. And I don’t force myself into what I consider their safe space (their forums). IMHO if they want to delete every critical post on their forums they can. They shouldn’t, because they will simply be sealing their fate. I simply post occasionally over there to spark discussion and then step back. Honestly their Discord is much more militaristic than their forum. Just try and state anything that varies from the company line there and several community folks will jump on you. I have literally watched them chase potential customers away because they asked a question...
Its their ballgame though so you play by their rules there. Outside though... no... outside I will freely challenge them and call them on obvious impossibilities like their timeline.
Let's face it. Questions aren't welcome at the CoE forums, those that ask questions are pariahs. Or worse. Their websites are their Ten Commandments, and the developers words are the word of God. The analogy is just too easy to make. And too many other projects are following the same model. We're not watching the construction of games. We're watching the formation of cults.
I've not heard their Discord. I doubt if would actually want to. It really sounds like they need to shut this feature down if it is driving potential customers away.
If a developer attacks any questioner or directs followers to shut down critical discussion that paints them in a negative light, I wonder. Can they really not discuss their product without attacking? Do they fear that their ideas not stand up to independent scrutiny? Are they taking every criticism personally? Even at the extreme, is the project really legitimate or are they hiding something?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Most companies don't want constructive criticism, they want to hear how great they are.
I have never once worked at a company that didn't actively seek customer input.
Now I will say, not every company is positioned to act upon customer input in a meaningful way.
Not sure what weird ass companies you are working for!
The difference in my opinion is that this company is totally reliant on Crowdfunding. They need the hype to push their constant sales since they failed to attract a publisher. Their CEO even asked fans to go out to other forums and shut down criticism.
A company with secure funding can afford public criticism. A company with uncertain funding, reliant on players constantly pre-purchasing stuff from their store probably has to be less tolerant.
Yeah but the thing with this company is that the CEO is unprofessional and comes across as a little boy.
I largely agree, but their behavior isn’t unique. And I don’t force myself into what I consider their safe space (their forums). IMHO if they want to delete every critical post on their forums they can. They shouldn’t, because they will simply be sealing their fate. I simply post occasionally over there to spark discussion and then step back. Honestly their Discord is much more militaristic than their forum. Just try and state anything that varies from the company line there and several community folks will jump on you. I have literally watched them chase potential customers away because they asked a question...
Its their ballgame though so you play by their rules there. Outside though... no... outside I will freely challenge them and call them on obvious impossibilities like their timeline.
I would say it would depends on the criticism or how it was phrased. I've seen sooooo many posts over the years, usually from another site but then brought over here) where someone was crying because they were "just being honest" and then I would read their post and the only thing I wanted to do was delete it and ban them and send them to their room.
So again, it depends on how that criticism is phrased. Sadly, very few "gamers" seem to be able to make good constructive criticism instead just end up ranting and raving.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Most companies don't want constructive criticism, they want to hear how great they are.
I have never once worked at a company that didn't actively seek customer input.
Now I will say, not every company is positioned to act upon customer input in a meaningful way.
Not sure what weird ass companies you are working for!
The difference in my opinion is that this company is totally reliant on Crowdfunding. They need the hype to push their constant sales since they failed to attract a publisher. Their CEO even asked fans to go out to other forums and shut down criticism.
A company with secure funding can afford public criticism. A company with uncertain funding, reliant on players constantly pre-purchasing stuff from their store probably has to be less tolerant.
Yeah but the thing with this company is that the CEO is unprofessional and comes across as a little boy.
I largely agree, but their behavior isn’t unique. And I don’t force myself into what I consider their safe space (their forums). IMHO if they want to delete every critical post on their forums they can. They shouldn’t, because they will simply be sealing their fate. I simply post occasionally over there to spark discussion and then step back. Honestly their Discord is much more militaristic than their forum. Just try and state anything that varies from the company line there and several community folks will jump on you. I have literally watched them chase potential customers away because they asked a question...
Its their ballgame though so you play by their rules there. Outside though... no... outside I will freely challenge them and call them on obvious impossibilities like their timeline.
I would say it would depends on the criticism or how it was phrased. I've seen sooooo many posts over the years, usually from another site but then brought over here) where someone was crying because they were "just being honest" and then I would read their post and the only thing I wanted to do was delete it and ban them and send them to their room.
So again, it depends on how that criticism is phrased. Sadly, very few "gamers" seem to be able to make good constructive criticism instead just end up ranting and raving.
I agree, but companies still have a lot to learn from such frustrations. Frustration at that level does not come out of nowhere.
As Bill Gates put it: "Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning."
They need the hype to push their constant sales since they failed to attract a publisher.
let me correct this for you
SBS reached out to quite a few publishers, they also attracted a number of publishers who reached out to them first
SBS didn't come to an agreement with any of them that had terms that were agreeable to both the publisher and the developer, and decided to currently continue to develop the game independently as a result of the relatively strong support of the community backing the crowd funding
as of today the number is:
i don't think that we would find many people that believe that this number is anywhere close enough to bring to launch a project of this ambition
however factual data shows that crowd funding remains on an upward positive trend:
I don't have access to SBS's books for obvious reasons (and i don't think anybody else on these forums has either), so all i can do is speculate that SBS is going to try to rely on crowd funding to develop the game to a point where a lot of the financial risk, and therefore a lot of the control in development that publishers seek to have when backing/funding a game in the very early stages of development, is removed
it is a bold move that NOBODY "knows" if it will succeed or not
detractors will believe it was unwise and they should have secured a publisher upon any condition to ensure the game was published, even if it meant the game and its mechanics might be altered in dramatic ways
supporters will believe that it was a wise decision if it meant that the game will continue to be developed without compromise to its goals
personally i believe it's a good move since the option to go with a publisher is always on the table if you are willing to accept their terms - the further along you take the project, the more favorable those terms will be to the developer - i don't find fault in that - a publisher has every right to seek terms that favor them, a developer has every right to seek terms that favor them
the rest of us are the peanut gallery regardless of whether we are choosing to support the developer, or choosing to disagree with the developer
*Edited to correct some of the nasty typos and grammatical errors i am prone to making
Let me counter your long and thorough post by simply pointing out that Caspien himself said that they would use The Kickstarter as seed money to attract an investor/publisher and that the fans would not be asked to bear the burden of fully funding the game. Not an exact quote but I’ll provide it if needed.
To my point, I don’t give a crap if he raised $1M or $4M or if it’s trending up or down As long as he needs constant sales due to his lack of secured funding he is going to have hyper sensitivity to criticism. He needs the hype to fund his company .
So whether you think it’s good or bad to have a publisher is really irrelevant to this conversation unless it pertains to how he handles criticism.
PS- Can you provide me the names of these supposed “quite a few” publishers that supposedly were attracted but turned down? Or even any proof at all that such happened?
Actually... never mind that will just drag us off topic but if you do have something to substantiate that I’d love to see it in another thread. The only TANGIBLE thing I am aware of is that they had to lay off staff in Dec. Hardly something a small company, far behind schedule would want to do.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
for me the explanation is more along the grounds of we are talking about discussions that challenge people's core beliefs and passions
it's not that the discussions or points on one side or the other shouldn't be heard, or should be squashed, but rather there is a time and a place for everything (fuck i HATE sounding politically correct)
personally i prefer open discussions, and hence my main reason for being here
sadly it's human nature and social dynamics, which we don't necessarily have control over
examples: an atheist isn't going to get much sympathy from a group of christians (or pretty much any other religious group) if he goes into their church and starts challenging their beliefs - a christian would find the same if they went to a meeting of atheists and started preaching the gospel
a trump supporter isn't going to get a warm reception at a clinton rally, and a clinton supporter isn't going to get one at a trump rally
in each case the person with an opposing view is often going to get verbal, and in some cases physical, abuse hurled at them
all too often they are removed from the venue by physical means
i have however watched and enjoyed debates between opposing viewpoints, when they take place at a 'neutral' venue like a university in the case of most debates regarding religion or politics
my personal opinion is that we are seeing these social dynamics in action, rather than there being anything to hide
for me the explanation is more along the grounds of we are talking about discussions that challenge people's core beliefs and passions
it's not that the discussions or points on one side or the other shouldn't be heard, or should be squashed, but rather there is a time and a place for everything (fuck i HATE sounding politically correct)
personally i prefer open discussions, and hence my main reason for being here
sadly it's human nature and social dynamics, which we don't necessarily have control over
examples: an atheist isn't going to get much sympathy from a group of christians (or pretty much any other religious group) if he goes into their church and starts challenging their beliefs - a christian would find the same if they went to a meeting of atheists and started preaching the gospel
a trump supporter isn't going to get a warm reception at a clinton rally, and a clinton supporter isn't going to get one at a trump rally
in each case the person with an opposing view is often going to get verbal, and in some cases physical, abuse hurled at them
all too often they are removed from the venue by physical means
i have however watched and enjoyed debates between opposing viewpoints, when they take place at a 'neutral' venue like a university in the case of most debates regarding religion or politics
my personal opinion is that we are seeing these social dynamics in action, rather than there being anything to hide
I largely agree and thus explained so in my earlier post. They have a right to set the rules on their own site. Where Caspien crossed the line IMHO was when he told his followers to go to OUTSIDE sites and shut down critics. That’s simply wrong.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Comments
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The one big reason this game will flop?
Xeyska Moderator- "Locked by request. "
So some backer can come in and be like "me feelers are hurt, lock this thread plz!"
Yeah this is gonna go over really well with the millennial "mememememe" crowd
lol. I'm gonna come back to this thread so I can necro it in a few years for a good laugh.
You seem to know quite a bit about how it was locked!
I saw the "Locked by request" post too
Do you have any evidence to support it was a backer who requested it to be locked, and the reason they gave for them wanting to have it locked?
I also posted on the EQ forums.. but stopped playing in 2004, but that was it's own little thing.. with the Veeshan Uprising and some other stupid stuff, but I quit due to burn out and boredom, and never really had a bad thing to say about the game itself tho, there is that.
Sadly.. I am now dying out of GW2, and moving on to BDO.. but I can't stand BDO's UI... but. dammit they even have ass physics.
What?...
Now I will say, not every company is positioned to act upon customer input in a meaningful way.
Not sure what weird ass companies you are working for!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Heck, I know my company has "a vision". But we are also very immersed in the whole NPS (Net Promoter Score) idea.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
A company with secure funding can afford public criticism. A company with uncertain funding, reliant on players constantly pre-purchasing stuff from their store probably has to be less tolerant.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Not only that, but the idea that companies only look at constructive criticism really isn't telling the entire story either. We take surveys on denials; not because we expect customers to give us a business plan on how to do it better, but because even ranting and raving, there are trigger words that tell us how we can better help our customers understand denials so that, while they won't be happy with the outcome, they don't feel like we're attempting to cheat them.
Doesn't matter if you or some people happen to dislike the subject matter of this particular thread.
Like they say, "one man's trash is another man's treasure!"
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
i see a lot of constructive criticism on these forums, however it is often interwoven with snarky criticism and human nature for many lumps it all into one ball
i didn't come here as a result of caspian's words, nor is it my intent to shut down criticism - i have often mentioned that skepticism can be a healthy thing
if my own agenda was to drown out (or outnumber) the voice of skeptics i would have the members of our community come and upvote all the positive posts and downvote the negative ones, make posts/threads etc - we have quite a few members:
it wouldn't "drown out" anything tbh, because people's beliefs are just that, their own personal beliefs and opinions
there are people that believe there is a good chance that CoE will succeed and and launch, there are people that believe there is a good chance that CoE will not launch, or if it does it will be in a very watered down or altered version
the ones that make me chuckle, on both sides, are the fanatical extremists, who "know" that the project is going to succeed or fail, and deny the possibility of the existence of any other outcome, because just like extremists at opposite ends of the political scale, they will do anything to get their own message across, and believe that theirs is the only one true opinion
however when i filter out some of the snarky/trollish comments be they about Gantt charts or Caspian's personality, sometimes there is a very valid point being made
personally i think it is easy to be a detractor, because historically progress in anything has been paved by countless, and i mean countless, episodes of failure
however many of the attempts helped pave the way for future success
and every now and then, one of those attempts succeeds, and of those, NOBODY knows ahead of time if that specific attempt will succeed or fail
Its their ballgame though so you play by their rules there. Outside though... no... outside I will freely challenge them and call them on obvious impossibilities like their timeline.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
SBS reached out to quite a few publishers, they also attracted a number of publishers who reached out to them first
SBS didn't come to an agreement with any of them that had terms that were agreeable to both the publisher and the developer, and decided to currently continue to develop the game independently as a result of the relatively strong support of the community backing the crowd funding
as of today the number is:
i don't think that we would find many people that believe that this number is anywhere close enough to bring to launch a project of this ambition
however factual data shows that crowd funding remains on an upward positive trend:
I don't have access to SBS's books for obvious reasons (and i don't think anybody else on these forums has either), so all i can do is speculate that SBS is going to try to rely on crowd funding to develop the game to a point where a lot of the financial risk, and therefore a lot of the control in development that publishers seek to have when backing/funding a game in the very early stages of development, is removed
it is a bold move that NOBODY "knows" if it will succeed or not
detractors will believe it was unwise and they should have secured a publisher upon any condition to ensure the game was published, even if it meant the game and its mechanics might be altered in dramatic ways
supporters will believe that it was a wise decision if it meant that the game will continue to be developed without compromise to its goals
personally i believe it's a good move since the option to go with a publisher is always on the table if you are willing to accept their terms - the further along you take the project, the more favorable those terms will be to the developer - i don't find fault in that - a publisher has every right to seek terms that favor them, a developer has every right to seek terms that favor them
the rest of us are the peanut gallery regardless of whether we are choosing to support the developer, or choosing to disagree with the developer
*Edited to correct some of the nasty typos and grammatical errors i am prone to making
Avatars are people too
I've not heard their Discord. I doubt if would actually want to. It really sounds like they need to shut this feature down if it is driving potential customers away.
If a developer attacks any questioner or directs followers to shut down critical discussion that paints them in a negative light, I wonder. Can they really not discuss their product without attacking? Do they fear that their ideas not stand up to independent scrutiny? Are they taking every criticism personally? Even at the extreme, is the project really legitimate or are they hiding something?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
So again, it depends on how that criticism is phrased. Sadly, very few "gamers" seem to be able to make good constructive criticism instead just end up ranting and raving.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
As Bill Gates put it: "Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning."
To my point, I don’t give a crap if he raised $1M or $4M or if it’s trending up or down As long as he needs constant sales due to his lack of secured funding he is going to have hyper sensitivity to criticism. He needs the hype to fund his company .
So whether you think it’s good or bad to have a publisher is really irrelevant to this conversation unless it pertains to how he handles criticism.
PS- Can you provide me the names of these supposed “quite a few” publishers that supposedly were attracted but turned down? Or even any proof at all that such happened?
Actually... never mind that will just drag us off topic but if you do have something to substantiate that I’d love to see it in another thread. The only TANGIBLE thing I am aware of is that they had to lay off staff in Dec. Hardly something a small company, far behind schedule would want to do.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
it's not that the discussions or points on one side or the other shouldn't be heard, or should be squashed, but rather there is a time and a place for everything (fuck i HATE sounding politically correct)
personally i prefer open discussions, and hence my main reason for being here
sadly it's human nature and social dynamics, which we don't necessarily have control over
examples: an atheist isn't going to get much sympathy from a group of christians (or pretty much any other religious group) if he goes into their church and starts challenging their beliefs - a christian would find the same if they went to a meeting of atheists and started preaching the gospel
a trump supporter isn't going to get a warm reception at a clinton rally, and a clinton supporter isn't going to get one at a trump rally
in each case the person with an opposing view is often going to get verbal, and in some cases physical, abuse hurled at them
all too often they are removed from the venue by physical means
i have however watched and enjoyed debates between opposing viewpoints, when they take place at a 'neutral' venue like a university in the case of most debates regarding religion or politics
my personal opinion is that we are seeing these social dynamics in action, rather than there being anything to hide
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018