Complete myth. You've more choice now than ever. You've all the classic school(Ultima, DAoC, EQ 1), all the old school(WoW Vanilla, Guild Wars 1, EQ 2, EvE) and all the new school(SWTOR, GW 2, ESO, TSW etc) MMOs available!
What more do you want? Ok, the future of MMOs is kinda in question, but you've got enough MMOs to choose to fill every ounce of your free time to the brim!
Something new and fresh, decent quality and doesn't suck?
Purple Squirrel indeed.....
Worlds Adrift is new and fresh.
A unique leveling system from multiple levels. Not much directly affects your character's actual power (no +health, +damage, or similar), instead it buffs what you can equip to your ship. Also since nothing has "use requirements" it means a hour zero character can join a party and experience the entire game, even final end game content (a bit limited by player skill).
Tries to mix the single player "building game" type game loop, then makes some reasonable decisions to be playable at MMO scale (no piston type mechanics, but everything is still a physical object with collision that can break/fall off your ship). The July release had just under 2K on two servers, one US and one EU (so you can reasonably say that their older code was handling over 1K servers because of time zones) (also easy to track since the only way to get the game is steam).
Depending on the player it could be a good or a bad thing... But it's very close to a Rust-A-Like with always on PvP, and the closest thing to a safezone is that your ship/base logs off a few minutes after you do.
As for not sucking. If you're coming from Space Engineers or a similar single player builder sandbox, it'll probably be a breath of fresh air for how well everything works. If you're coming from a AAA MMO, you'll probably be pretty angry at how often a bug here and there will mess up your day (some people are fine, other's are complete magnets) .
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
Complete myth. You've more choice now than ever. You've all the classic school(Ultima, DAoC, EQ 1), all the old school(WoW Vanilla, Guild Wars 1, EQ 2, EvE) and all the new school(SWTOR, GW 2, ESO, TSW etc) MMOs available!
What more do you want? Ok, the future of MMOs is kinda in question, but you've got enough MMOs to choose to fill every ounce of your free time to the brim!
Something new and fresh, decent quality and doesn't suck?
Purple Squirrel indeed.....
Worlds Adrift is new and fresh.
A unique leveling system from multiple levels. Not much directly affects your character's actual power (no +health, +damage, or similar), instead it buffs what you can equip to your ship. Also since nothing has "use requirements" it means a hour zero character can join a party and experience the entire game, even final end game content (a bit limited by player skill).
Tries to mix the single player "building game" type game loop, then makes some reasonable decisions to be playable at MMO scale (no piston type mechanics, but everything is still a physical object with collision that can break/fall off your ship). The July release had just under 2K on two servers, one US and one EU (so you can reasonably say that their older code was handling over 1K servers because of time zones) (also easy to track since the only way to get the game is steam).
Depending on the player it could be a good or a bad thing... But it's very close to a Rust-A-Like with always on PvP, and the closest thing to a safezone is that your ship/base logs off a few minutes after you do.
As for not sucking. If you're coming from Space Engineers or a similar single player builder sandbox, it'll probably be a breath of fresh air for how well everything works. If you're coming from a AAA MMO, you'll probably be pretty angry at how often a bug here and there will mess up your day (some people are fine, other's are complete magnets) .
It actually sounds pretty good, but that Rust like FFA PVP is a non starter for me.
I don't mind PVP games but I do like to have some control on my risk vs reward.
Especially as in games like this its usually the "sheep" like me taking on most of the risk, for very little reward.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This has resonance for me. I live in a household of 4 MMO players; but aside from an occasional run through ESO, none of us play MMOs now. Too many PvP and action based game models. Especially for the folks who worked as MMO gms, and dealt with griefing and ganking all day. They won't play any PvP games. Period.
I'm going to give Crowfall a run, as they seem to have a grasp of the issues that come with PvP, and they've designed some good solutions, imo.
But otherwise, there's not much out there at present. So for us, it's Reality.
And what are these PvP MMORPGs? As I do not know even one new released. There are EVE, the old L2 - on private servers, and old games like Darkfall and Mortal, that are certainly behind L2 as quality. All new games, are solo (I will not say PvE, because in games like BDO the PvE is the worst and most singleplayer part).
Likely referring to ArcheAge, Black Desert, Albion Online, and SotA as recently released "PVP" MMORPGs.
AA and BDO are not PvP games. Neither PvE, as it is solo. AA has some PvP areas, like the sea. BDO is a game for friendly fights only. If you call that PvP we have different quality standard.
I'm pretty sure that all pvp means is player vs player. You may not like a particular type of pvp system or activity but there is nothing to say that Black Desert or Arche Age aren't pvp games because both have land ownership through pvp.
Now, they might falter in several ways but there are very few games that seem to get it right.
Even Lineage 2 had its f'ups.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
This has resonance for me. I live in a household of 4 MMO players; but aside from an occasional run through ESO, none of us play MMOs now. Too many PvP and action based game models. Especially for the folks who worked as MMO gms, and dealt with griefing and ganking all day. They won't play any PvP games. Period.
I'm going to give Crowfall a run, as they seem to have a grasp of the issues that come with PvP, and they've designed some good solutions, imo.
But otherwise, there's not much out there at present. So for us, it's Reality.
And what are these PvP MMORPGs? As I do not know even one new released. There are EVE, the old L2 - on private servers, and old games like Darkfall and Mortal, that are certainly behind L2 as quality. All new games, are solo (I will not say PvE, because in games like BDO the PvE is the worst and most singleplayer part).
Likely referring to ArcheAge, Black Desert, Albion Online, and SotA as recently released "PVP" MMORPGs.
AA and BDO are not PvP games. Neither PvE, as it is solo. AA has some PvP areas, like the sea. BDO is a game for friendly fights only. If you call that PvP we have different quality standard.
Complete myth. You've more choice now than ever. You've all the classic school(Ultima, DAoC, EQ 1), all the old school(WoW Vanilla, Guild Wars 1, EQ 2, EvE) and all the new school(SWTOR, GW 2, ESO, TSW etc) MMOs available!
What more do you want? Ok, the future of MMOs is kinda in question, but you've got enough MMOs to choose to fill every ounce of your free time to the brim!
I want much better games. GW2 and ESO are not even MMORPGs. Ultima, L2, EVE and DAoC are much better as gameplay than any newer game. What is that choice - old or bad?
If thats what you call 'friendly' PVP then i don't think i would like to try playing any game you consider the PVP not to be friendly!
Complete myth. You've more choice now than ever. You've all the classic school(Ultima, DAoC, EQ 1), all the old school(WoW Vanilla, Guild Wars 1, EQ 2, EvE) and all the new school(SWTOR, GW 2, ESO, TSW etc) MMOs available!
What more do you want? Ok, the future of MMOs is kinda in question, but you've got enough MMOs to choose to fill every ounce of your free time to the brim!
Something new and fresh, decent quality and doesn't suck?
Purple Squirrel indeed.....
Worlds Adrift is new and fresh.
A unique leveling system from multiple levels. Not much directly affects your character's actual power (no +health, +damage, or similar), instead it buffs what you can equip to your ship. Also since nothing has "use requirements" it means a hour zero character can join a party and experience the entire game, even final end game content (a bit limited by player skill).
Tries to mix the single player "building game" type game loop, then makes some reasonable decisions to be playable at MMO scale (no piston type mechanics, but everything is still a physical object with collision that can break/fall off your ship). The July release had just under 2K on two servers, one US and one EU (so you can reasonably say that their older code was handling over 1K servers because of time zones) (also easy to track since the only way to get the game is steam).
Depending on the player it could be a good or a bad thing... But it's very close to a Rust-A-Like with always on PvP, and the closest thing to a safezone is that your ship/base logs off a few minutes after you do.
As for not sucking. If you're coming from Space Engineers or a similar single player builder sandbox, it'll probably be a breath of fresh air for how well everything works. If you're coming from a AAA MMO, you'll probably be pretty angry at how often a bug here and there will mess up your day (some people are fine, other's are complete magnets) .
It actually sounds pretty good, but that Rust like FFA PVP is a non starter for me.
I don't mind PVP games but I do like to have some control on my risk vs reward.
Especially as in games like this its usually the "sheep" like me taking on most of the risk, for very little reward.
Pretty much. The devs are parading about saying "everything in the game has real physics, if we disable PvP it will weaken your actual ability to defend yourself against cheesy abuses"...
Though I do get some great time in on early mornings, and after the "wolf sheep cycle" completes itself (Wolves grind fast to any advantage they can find (normally bugging their way to final zones/ item duplication bugs/similar), get bored so they kill anything that moves, people actually playing the game get chased offed, and then the wolves finally quit since they aren't actually looking to fight each other). 3 rounds and those patterns have held solidly (Rather amusing that just like in RL crime rates massively plunge in the early morning daylight hours).
______________________________
It's a great game, though the devs are purposefully limiting their target market by large percents. I personally wonder how long that will be allowed since every month or so I'm hearing news about new investors getting in for 5-10 million a hit. Or if it'll just get "Spellborned" (which literally had a good demo that I got to play, then after an update that bugged everything up shut down forever 3 days later), where all the investors to the studio were so busy arguing for rights to the game that there was nothing left for anyone to get anything.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
This has resonance for me. I live in a household of 4 MMO players; but aside from an occasional run through ESO, none of us play MMOs now. Too many PvP and action based game models. Especially for the folks who worked as MMO gms, and dealt with griefing and ganking all day. They won't play any PvP games. Period.
I'm going to give Crowfall a run, as they seem to have a grasp of the issues that come with PvP, and they've designed some good solutions, imo.
But otherwise, there's not much out there at present. So for us, it's Reality.
And what are these PvP MMORPGs? As I do not know even one new released. There are EVE, the old L2 - on private servers, and old games like Darkfall and Mortal, that are certainly behind L2 as quality. All new games, are solo (I will not say PvE, because in games like BDO the PvE is the worst and most singleplayer part).
Likely referring to ArcheAge, Black Desert, Albion Online, and SotA as recently released "PVP" MMORPGs.
AA and BDO are not PvP games. Neither PvE, as it is solo. AA has some PvP areas, like the sea. BDO is a game for friendly fights only. If you call that PvP we have different quality standard.
I'm pretty sure that all pvp means is player vs player. You may not like a particular type of pvp system or activity but there is nothing to say that Black Desert or Arche Age aren't pvp games because both have land ownership through pvp.
Now, they might falter in several ways but there are very few games that seem to get it right.
Even Lineage 2 had its f'ups.
PvP is player vs player indeed. But if it does not matter if you win or lose, there is not real conflict. The vs part is not implemented into the game. In BDO you do not own lands, as the so called ownership gives zero control. In AA, there is a very limited area. L2 is far, far away from perfect. The main problem for me is that a game released in 2003 is better. This is simply ridiculous. This is not art, it is a set of rules limited by the technology available. How with much better technology, we have so bad gameplay in games like BDO, AA, ESO and etc. And the main problem in all of them is not the lack of meaningful PvP. It is the exclusively solo PvE. Take BDO as maybe the best example for terrible gameplay. What part of the PvE is really cooperative? None. With singleplayer PvE the PvP actually does not matter at all. If I want only PvP, I will play mobas. In general these games provide pointless PvP and solo PvE.
Before few months I tried L2 Classic. Balanced PvP, FFA in fact, as the PK penalties are fictive, loot, much higher risk. And I found a surprisingly bad gameplay. The problem was the easy PvE - all the bosses are ridiculous. The lack of fortresses. The lack of real castle control - you know the harvesting. And the lack of crafting. You could take literally everything playing solo or with a random party, by drop. And I realized the PvE was a very important part of L2.
The thing is when you start talking about "real conflict" I think of shooters. We have real conflict there, you don't have to gain territory for that. Where I agree MMOs can go of the rails is with mini-game PvP that puts PvP into a separate world which has no bearing on the rest of the game.
What I think Ikcin is getting at is he wants a MMO with grander strategy, which I applaud. Where we part is when he dismisses the gameplay in other MMOs simply because they are not that strategic.
But yes, lets have more solid land control strategy MMOs, any genre has strength in diversity of gameplay so that has to be good. My only concern the way gaming companies have tied that in with players paying for a big advantage before the MMO even soft launches.
I know I’m going to get crap for saying this, but I
personally feel that the game that defined the genre is also the game that killed
it. Just in case you haven’t figured out which game I’m talking about, it’s World
of Warcraft.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I played WoW from the beginning,
and stayed with it for around 3 years. That’s when I finally woke up and
realized that there really was no point. Oh sure, it’s the endless gear grind
toward that next piece. There really was no end game content, just raid and
grind, which I’m not a big fan of. That’s when I started trying out other
games, and that’s when the trouble started.
Let’s take Age of Conan as a good example. AoC came out when
Wow was still very popular. AoC offered some unique differences. The game had
no tiered/colored gear. It has a different combat system. It also was more of a
skill based game. It was like this for a while until the influx of WoW players
came. They flooded the forums with complaints about Wow-like mechanics missing from
the game. So, what happens next? The next patch is a huge patch which
essentially turns the game from a unique game to jut another Wow clone. I lost
track of how many games this happened to. It was an understandable situation though
and helped to create the climate we have now.
For so many years, companies tried to lure the WoW player
base to their game. They would start off with some mechanics that set it apart
from Wow, (Rift and its rift system) but ultimately, they all fell to the
tiered gear/dungeon/raiding model. To me, this is what killed the genre. Sure,
there have been games that have survived this whole process, and new games have
risen up to take a good chunk of the market share, GW2 and ESO, but again there’s
issues with them. The new issues seem more to do with development.
Back in the day, I got beta invites to almost every game I
played. You could play the game while in development, discuss issues with the
developers, and generally get a good feel for how the game is going to play.
You even got a pretty good deal on pre-ordering when it came time for that. Now
the development model seems to be, give us the money up front so we can develop
the game, and then you’ll be able to play it. Plus, the number of vaporware
titles or cash grabs has increased over time. This seems to be the growing
trend over the most recent years. The other issue is content, mainly end game
content.
The 2 MMO’s that I have played that had decent end game were
Shadowbane and GW2, although I would say that Shadowbane’s focus was end game
content. In Shadowbane, most players would hurry up and grind characters to max
level. Then the could really participate in the end game PVP aspect of the game
as well as the city sieging mechanism. GW2 has decent end game in terms of WvWvW.
The issue with GW2’s end game though is it got no real updates or development
in contrast to the PVE side of the game. ESO has the same problem with end game
content. They are so focused on the PVE side and little development goes into
the PVP side. Why? Simply, the PVE side and crown store makes them the most
money, which is pretty much what any gaming company cares about these days. The
goal seems to have shifted from producing quality games that will last to let’s
grab what cash we can and fleece the players. So, what’s the solution?
Some of the up and coming games have some interesting twists
on the genre, but they seem to suffer from the current development issues of
trying to get the money before making the game. So, to me the next game/company
that will stand out will not follow the current development model, will
actually work with the player base in offering beta testing, include them in
the development of the game, and not put cash grab mechanisms in place.
A few years ago I posted the basics of the game I’d like to
see, and I think some of the companies might have grabbed some of them, ahem
CoE. Here’s my game:
You have reach the age of apprenticeship where you must
choose between learning the ways of magic or melee. Once you make the choice,
you are send to you apprentice location. Here you will learn how to master your
skills. As a magic person, you are located on the magical campus that has an
array of things to learn and develop. As a melee person, you are located at the
nearest encampment. Both have no people with marks over their heads. You simply
need to talk to people to get tasks to perform. Performing these tasks gains
you experience points which then translate into skill points. Skill point can
then be applied to different skills.
There are no levels, classes, or tiered gear. You also learn
how to build your own housing and construct everything you need. Mines are
actual mines that you have to explore and take control of. The world is
persistent in that if a bandit party attacks your encampment, you have to go rescue
the NPC’s before it will go back to normal. As for end game, you venture out
into the unknown and uncharted area to build and construct your own living
area. You can do it alone, or with a guild. Basically, a game that’s more
realistic in how it deals with navigating though it and such. This is the game
that I would love to see developed, but with the way the genre is going, I don’t
see any company taking a risk on it, and at the same time develop it in the old
school way.
Currently I'm playing an FPS (Verdun), a battle royale (PUBG), a slasher (Vermintide II), and a single player RPG (Skyrim), but I haven't played an MMO in at least a year.
It's not because I'm hoping to relive some experience I had in 1999 - I played my first MMO (Runescape) in 2007, and the only reason I left it is because they broke the main game, then opened a legacy server and broke that one. What I'm looking for in an MMO should be very simple:
No cash shop of any kind, including cosmetics (so subscription based. I'm happy to pay $30/month if it means I don't have to deal with a cash shop)
No gear treadmill (give me something at least marginally interesting once I get to level cap, if there is a level cap)
Fun and engaging combat (no tab target, click and wait, turn based, etc)
Crafting system that actually has a reason to exist (i.e. isn't just there to fill in the gaps between looted gear)
No inescapable open world PvP (it's fine in a few zones or if it's flag based)
Yet there isn't any MMO out there that fulfills all of these conditions, and in fact very few even fulfill more than 2. (if you know a game that does fulfill these, please let me know)
Wow you should play one of the Darkfall's... there are two of them now, different versions from each other. New Dawn and Rise of Agon. Crafting is a bit more valuable in New Dawn but Rise of Agon allows every person to craft anything they want if they put enough time into it.
The open world PVP is possible everywhere but extremely easy to avoid if you aren't in the mood for PVP or whatever... in fact the only place it is guaranteed to be found right now is while capturing village control points, going to a player city siege, or a suicide run to a hotspot where enemies can always be found. Its as easy to avoid PVP as it is being able to flag yourself invulnerable to PVP like in Asheron's Call or something like that. Seriously... you get load lag whenever someone is entering your area before you even see them typically so that gives you plenty of time to get away if you do not want to risk a fight but its almost never going to be an enemy if the grind in certain areas.
I remember hearing about Darkfall a while back in that it's similar to Mortal Online (which I tried and disliked) - is there any truth to that comparison?
I am not playing mmos at the moment. I'm really busy playing a lot of single player games i've had piling up in both my digital and physical library of games. That being said, every mmorpg i like is worth playing to me.
Play what you like, not what someone else thinks is worth playing or not.
Most of the newer big MMOs are just crap....I havent tried ESo yet, but GW2 sucked and so did Archeage and all the others.....They jsut aren't much fun anymore....still waiting for someone to quit following the story/quest mode gameplay and give us a fun world to explore...From what Ican see theres only one MMO coming that fits that description (Pantheon).
@4507 - Yes there is a lot of truth in that comparison, Darkfall and Mortal are comparable in many ways but there are two key choices that made me get into Darkfall for a bit, while I could never get into MO.
1. There is no need for alts in Darkfall. 2. No racial choice is so bad you would ever need to reroll in Darkfall.
Sounds like you're just burned out on gaming in general. There are many good MMO's on the market today, ESO, Blade&Soul, Black Desert - and many soon to be released. Maybe you should take a break.
PvP mmo players - Might not be the perfect games but certainly some exist for this type of player. The future looks very bright.. overly bright as the (loud) low but steady percentage of pvp mmo players would have a hard time sustaining all those upcoming pvp mmos.
PvE mmo players type 1 - Those who like story driven, casual(ish), single player mmo like the WoW/ESO/GW2/BDO type. There are plenty mmos in this segment and plenty of players, probably 75+% of mmo players. Some of these players get bored with the style and drop out of the mmo genre in lack of alternatives, others become mmo hoppers. Plenty of new mmos in development with this style.
PvE mmo players type 2 - Sometimes called oldschool, but it is really not a question of age, as there are also "new" players who don't feel type 1 mmos offer them what they are looking for. It is those players who feel herded, missing freedom, complexity, belonging, who miss getting immersed and getting a real feeling of accomplishment - Unfortunately at this point only, old mmos can be used as a reference point for what is missing, so they are labelled with the misleading "oldschool". True next gen projects like EqNext(rip), CoE are indicators of new mmos embracing this style, and in the lets see where it goes category are Lucimia, Gorgon, Pantheon. These players are a steady percentage niche like pvp players, and there are no mmos for these at the moment. Some players who enjoy this style either take the second best alternative of a pvp mmo or type1, the rest simply don't play mmos. Some new mmos in development with this style, but those are fragile projects that can flip to type 1 or die at any point, because the audience is in hiding and the active numbers are low and cautious.
Sounds like you're just burned out on gaming in general. There are many good MMO's on the market today, ESO, Blade&Soul, Black Desert - and many soon to be released. Maybe you should take a break.
All are great games, except er...action combat which I don't care for.
Also there is nothing really to gain or lose in such games, so they are pointless from my perspective.
I'm really looking for EVE with avatars.....
Sometimes you just want to swing a good broadsword.....and my wife gets angry when I do it in the living room....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think BDO, ESO are great games. I loved BDO. I loved farming and breeding horses and riding my wagon.
Obviously you love singleplayer games, as none of that is multiplayer.
I'm pretty sure I've played with/grouped with others in both games.
Obviously you are bitter and jaded.
So you were farming, breeding horses and riding your wagon with other players in BDO?
No I wasn't. Now your turn to think it through.
and regarding your link; key phrase: "I just don't know how to."
I think the problem with you is that you are like that poster, you "don't know how to" and you need others to show you or you need the developers to make it so you don't have to figure it out. That's a shame.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Currently I don't play any MMO. I am waiting for Project TL to see if I can fill my nostalgia of the old Lineage LoA days. If it ends up a disappointment, I'll probably stay out of MMOs for the entire next decade.
It's not that the games are not fun, but the majority of players are soulless husks hooked on the loot grab and gear treadmills. What happens to smoking a pipe in the tavern talking about all the good shit? The RP needs to make a comeback, the SOUL needs to make a comeback.
Originally posted by Arskaaa "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
Honestly I do not understand what you mean. If you mean that I should imagine what I'm playing - well I do not need MMO then, I will imagine one with a singleplayer game, obviously some developers - BDO, ESO and etc, makers, expect exactly that from the players, instead to cerate a multiplayer game.
So "no" I did not farm or breed horses or ride a wagon. I hate that stuff and that stuff doesn't need to be multiplayer. Though I could see having wagons "attackable" and requiring a guard of players.
I did group with guild members for grinding and pvp.
For Elder Scrolls Online, I would be in a dungeon, and if I had a hard time with one of the main "dungeon bosses" I'd group with someone or "someones" and then we might head out and find another to do, maybe stop at one of those anchors on the way.
You can group in these games if you want to.
If you are one of those people who need bettah rewards/xp for grouping otherwise you solo because "soloing yields better xp over time" then I can't help you.
Up above you say that to you there are two types of players ... Well, to me there are two types of people, those who Do, who find solutions, who recognize "how it is" and find meaning within that; people who make things happen, and those who complain and prefer gripe because they can't make things happen or things don't manifest how "they think it should be" so they just sit like a lump and look at everything with a jaundiced eye.
And sadly that translates to life outside of gaming as well.
And I should apologize for seeming a bit accusatory there but that is my issue; I have problems with people who are the latter and not the former.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I think BDO, ESO are great games. I loved BDO. I loved farming and breeding horses and riding my wagon.
Obviously you love singleplayer games, as none of that is multiplayer.
I'm pretty sure I've played with/grouped with others in both games.
Obviously you are bitter and jaded.
So you were farming, breeding horses and riding your wagon with other players in BDO?
No I wasn't. Now your turn to think it through.
and regarding your link; key phrase: "I just don't know how to."
I think the problem with you is that you are like that poster, you "don't know how to" and you need others to show you or you need the developers to make it so you don't have to figure it out. That's a shame.
Honestly I do not understand what you mean. If you mean that I should imagine what I'm playing - well I do not need MMO then, I will imagine one with a singleplayer game, obviously some developers - BDO, ESO and etc, makers, expect exactly that from the players, instead to cerate a multiplayer game.
You keep referencing BDO as a single player game. Sure you can do a lot of the content solo, but you don't have to. I don't really ever solo grind as I find it boring, I think it's a hell of a lot more fun in a group. PVP is pretty much always a group activity, so I'm a little lost as to why you keep referring to it as a single player game. Just because you can go fishing AFK solo, or go harvesting solo, or grind solo, or even pvp solo doesn't mean it's a solo game.
Hell even in games that people "required" grouping in, you could play 100% solo. I leveled up in FFXI pretty much solo the first go around, although it was a hell of a lot harder, I was young and didn't really understand grouping mechanics all that well.
ESO is the same situation. You can do it all solo, you can play it like an elder scrolls game and just go do quests and level up, or you can do it in groups and play with other players. My girlfriend plays ESO quite a bit now as she bought it on a sale and she plays almost exclusively in groups, and is constantly chatting with guild members and randoms around the world.
Currently I'm playing an FPS (Verdun), a battle royale (PUBG), a slasher (Vermintide II), and a single player RPG (Skyrim), but I haven't played an MMO in at least a year.
It's not because I'm hoping to relive some experience I had in 1999 - I played my first MMO (Runescape) in 2007, and the only reason I left it is because they broke the main game, then opened a legacy server and broke that one. What I'm looking for in an MMO should be very simple:
No cash shop of any kind, including cosmetics (so subscription based. I'm happy to pay $30/month if it means I don't have to deal with a cash shop)
No gear treadmill (give me something at least marginally interesting once I get to level cap, if there is a level cap)
Fun and engaging combat (no tab target, click and wait, turn based, etc)
Crafting system that actually has a reason to exist (i.e. isn't just there to fill in the gaps between looted gear)
No inescapable open world PvP (it's fine in a few zones or if it's flag based)
Yet there isn't any MMO out there that fulfills all of these conditions, and in fact very few even fulfill more than 2. (if you know a game that does fulfill these, please let me know)
I'm one of the no cash shop people and that leaves you with a handful of MMOs and some emulators.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Up above you say that to you there are two types of players ... Well, to me there are two types of people, those who Do, who find solutions, who recognize "how it is" and find meaning within that; people who make things happen, and those who complain and prefer gripe because they can't make things happen or things don't manifest how "they think it should be" so they just sit like a lump and look at everything with a jaundiced eye.
And sadly that translates to life outside of gaming as well.
And I should apologize for seeming a bit accusatory there but that is my issue; I have problems with people who are the latter and not the former.
You are completely missing the point. The solutions should be implemented by the developer. I do not understand the people who complain about bugs, and servers stability, but say nothing about the bad gameplay. When I played BDO I was in guild, did raids, node wars, guild quests even exp parties. But with singleplayer PvE and pointless PvP, the long term goals simply do not exist. And they are essential for any MMORPG. If I want just to PvP, well any action game or moba is far better than BDO. If I want to PvE, well DS games are far better than BDO. But I want to play a MMORPG, and BDO is not such. As a player with L2 and EVE experience you should understand better what I mean.
Well, apparently I don't require the developers to hold my hand.
And "yeah" in Lineage 2 I mostly soloed but also grouped when it was fun to do so.
I just don't require someone to show me the way.
So yeah I group in black desert and Elder Scrolls Online when it's fun to do so. I define my experience.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Comments
A unique leveling system from multiple levels. Not much directly affects your character's actual power (no +health, +damage, or similar), instead it buffs what you can equip to your ship. Also since nothing has "use requirements" it means a hour zero character can join a party and experience the entire game, even final end game content (a bit limited by player skill).
Tries to mix the single player "building game" type game loop, then makes some reasonable decisions to be playable at MMO scale (no piston type mechanics, but everything is still a physical object with collision that can break/fall off your ship). The July release had just under 2K on two servers, one US and one EU (so you can reasonably say that their older code was handling over 1K servers because of time zones) (also easy to track since the only way to get the game is steam).
Depending on the player it could be a good or a bad thing... But it's very close to a Rust-A-Like with always on PvP, and the closest thing to a safezone is that your ship/base logs off a few minutes after you do.
As for not sucking. If you're coming from Space Engineers or a similar single player builder sandbox, it'll probably be a breath of fresh air for how well everything works. If you're coming from a AAA MMO, you'll probably be pretty angry at how often a bug here and there will mess up your day (some people are fine, other's are complete magnets) .
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
I don't mind PVP games but I do like to have some control on my risk vs reward.
Especially as in games like this its usually the "sheep" like me taking on most of the risk, for very little reward.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Now, they might falter in several ways but there are very few games that seem to get it right.
Even Lineage 2 had its f'ups.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Though I do get some great time in on early mornings, and after the "wolf sheep cycle" completes itself (Wolves grind fast to any advantage they can find (normally bugging their way to final zones/ item duplication bugs/similar), get bored so they kill anything that moves, people actually playing the game get chased offed, and then the wolves finally quit since they aren't actually looking to fight each other). 3 rounds and those patterns have held solidly (Rather amusing that just like in RL crime rates massively plunge in the early morning daylight hours).
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It's a great game, though the devs are purposefully limiting their target market by large percents. I personally wonder how long that will be allowed since every month or so I'm hearing news about new investors getting in for 5-10 million a hit. Or if it'll just get "Spellborned" (which literally had a good demo that I got to play, then after an update that bugged everything up shut down forever 3 days later), where all the investors to the studio were so busy arguing for rights to the game that there was nothing left for anyone to get anything.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
The thing is when you start talking about "real conflict" I think of shooters. We have real conflict there, you don't have to gain territory for that. Where I agree MMOs can go of the rails is with mini-game PvP that puts PvP into a separate world which has no bearing on the rest of the game.
What I think Ikcin is getting at is he wants a MMO with grander strategy, which I applaud. Where we part is when he dismisses the gameplay in other MMOs simply because they are not that strategic.
But yes, lets have more solid land control strategy MMOs, any genre has strength in diversity of gameplay so that has to be good. My only concern the way gaming companies have tied that in with players paying for a big advantage before the MMO even soft launches.
I know I’m going to get crap for saying this, but I personally feel that the game that defined the genre is also the game that killed it. Just in case you haven’t figured out which game I’m talking about, it’s World of Warcraft.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I played WoW from the beginning, and stayed with it for around 3 years. That’s when I finally woke up and realized that there really was no point. Oh sure, it’s the endless gear grind toward that next piece. There really was no end game content, just raid and grind, which I’m not a big fan of. That’s when I started trying out other games, and that’s when the trouble started.
Let’s take Age of Conan as a good example. AoC came out when Wow was still very popular. AoC offered some unique differences. The game had no tiered/colored gear. It has a different combat system. It also was more of a skill based game. It was like this for a while until the influx of WoW players came. They flooded the forums with complaints about Wow-like mechanics missing from the game. So, what happens next? The next patch is a huge patch which essentially turns the game from a unique game to jut another Wow clone. I lost track of how many games this happened to. It was an understandable situation though and helped to create the climate we have now.
For so many years, companies tried to lure the WoW player base to their game. They would start off with some mechanics that set it apart from Wow, (Rift and its rift system) but ultimately, they all fell to the tiered gear/dungeon/raiding model. To me, this is what killed the genre. Sure, there have been games that have survived this whole process, and new games have risen up to take a good chunk of the market share, GW2 and ESO, but again there’s issues with them. The new issues seem more to do with development.
Back in the day, I got beta invites to almost every game I played. You could play the game while in development, discuss issues with the developers, and generally get a good feel for how the game is going to play. You even got a pretty good deal on pre-ordering when it came time for that. Now the development model seems to be, give us the money up front so we can develop the game, and then you’ll be able to play it. Plus, the number of vaporware titles or cash grabs has increased over time. This seems to be the growing trend over the most recent years. The other issue is content, mainly end game content.
The 2 MMO’s that I have played that had decent end game were Shadowbane and GW2, although I would say that Shadowbane’s focus was end game content. In Shadowbane, most players would hurry up and grind characters to max level. Then the could really participate in the end game PVP aspect of the game as well as the city sieging mechanism. GW2 has decent end game in terms of WvWvW. The issue with GW2’s end game though is it got no real updates or development in contrast to the PVE side of the game. ESO has the same problem with end game content. They are so focused on the PVE side and little development goes into the PVP side. Why? Simply, the PVE side and crown store makes them the most money, which is pretty much what any gaming company cares about these days. The goal seems to have shifted from producing quality games that will last to let’s grab what cash we can and fleece the players. So, what’s the solution?
Some of the up and coming games have some interesting twists on the genre, but they seem to suffer from the current development issues of trying to get the money before making the game. So, to me the next game/company that will stand out will not follow the current development model, will actually work with the player base in offering beta testing, include them in the development of the game, and not put cash grab mechanisms in place.
A few years ago I posted the basics of the game I’d like to see, and I think some of the companies might have grabbed some of them, ahem CoE. Here’s my game:
You have reach the age of apprenticeship where you must choose between learning the ways of magic or melee. Once you make the choice, you are send to you apprentice location. Here you will learn how to master your skills. As a magic person, you are located on the magical campus that has an array of things to learn and develop. As a melee person, you are located at the nearest encampment. Both have no people with marks over their heads. You simply need to talk to people to get tasks to perform. Performing these tasks gains you experience points which then translate into skill points. Skill point can then be applied to different skills.
There are no levels, classes, or tiered gear. You also learn how to build your own housing and construct everything you need. Mines are actual mines that you have to explore and take control of. The world is persistent in that if a bandit party attacks your encampment, you have to go rescue the NPC’s before it will go back to normal. As for end game, you venture out into the unknown and uncharted area to build and construct your own living area. You can do it alone, or with a guild. Basically, a game that’s more realistic in how it deals with navigating though it and such. This is the game that I would love to see developed, but with the way the genre is going, I don’t see any company taking a risk on it, and at the same time develop it in the old school way.
Play what you like, not what someone else thinks is worth playing or not.
1. There is no need for alts in Darkfall.
2. No racial choice is so bad you would ever need to reroll in Darkfall.
PvP mmo players - Might not be the perfect games but certainly some exist for this type of player. The future looks very bright.. overly bright as the (loud) low but steady percentage of pvp mmo players would have a hard time sustaining all those upcoming pvp mmos.
PvE mmo players type 1 - Those who like story driven, casual(ish), single player mmo like the WoW/ESO/GW2/BDO type. There are plenty mmos in this segment and plenty of players, probably 75+% of mmo players. Some of these players get bored with the style and drop out of the mmo genre in lack of alternatives, others become mmo hoppers. Plenty of new mmos in development with this style.
PvE mmo players type 2 - Sometimes called oldschool, but it is really not a question of age, as there are also "new" players who don't feel type 1 mmos offer them what they are looking for. It is those players who feel herded, missing freedom, complexity, belonging, who miss getting immersed and getting a real feeling of accomplishment - Unfortunately at this point only, old mmos can be used as a reference point for what is missing, so they are labelled with the misleading "oldschool". True next gen projects like EqNext(rip), CoE are indicators of new mmos embracing this style, and in the lets see where it goes category are Lucimia, Gorgon, Pantheon.
These players are a steady percentage niche like pvp players, and there are no mmos for these at the moment. Some players who enjoy this style either take the second best alternative of a pvp mmo or type1, the rest simply don't play mmos. Some new mmos in development with this style, but those are fragile projects that can flip to type 1 or die at any point, because the audience is in hiding and the active numbers are low and cautious.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
Also there is nothing really to gain or lose in such games, so they are pointless from my perspective.
I'm really looking for EVE with avatars.....
Sometimes you just want to swing a good broadsword.....and my wife gets angry when I do it in the living room....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Obviously you are bitter and jaded.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
and regarding your link; key phrase: "I just don't know how to."
I think the problem with you is that you are like that poster, you "don't know how to" and you need others to show you or you need the developers to make it so you don't have to figure it out. That's a shame.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
I did group with guild members for grinding and pvp.
For Elder Scrolls Online, I would be in a dungeon, and if I had a hard time with one of the main "dungeon bosses" I'd group with someone or "someones" and then we might head out and find another to do, maybe stop at one of those anchors on the way.
You can group in these games if you want to.
If you are one of those people who need bettah rewards/xp for grouping otherwise you solo because "soloing yields better xp over time" then I can't help you.
Up above you say that to you there are two types of players ... Well, to me there are two types of people, those who Do, who find solutions, who recognize "how it is" and find meaning within that; people who make things happen, and those who complain and prefer gripe because they can't make things happen or things don't manifest how "they think it should be" so they just sit like a lump and look at everything with a jaundiced eye.
And sadly that translates to life outside of gaming as well.
And I should apologize for seeming a bit accusatory there but that is my issue; I have problems with people who are the latter and not the former.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Hell even in games that people "required" grouping in, you could play 100% solo. I leveled up in FFXI pretty much solo the first go around, although it was a hell of a lot harder, I was young and didn't really understand grouping mechanics all that well.
ESO is the same situation. You can do it all solo, you can play it like an elder scrolls game and just go do quests and level up, or you can do it in groups and play with other players. My girlfriend plays ESO quite a bit now as she bought it on a sale and she plays almost exclusively in groups, and is constantly chatting with guild members and randoms around the world.
You play the game how you want to play.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/And "yeah" in Lineage 2 I mostly soloed but also grouped when it was fun to do so.
I just don't require someone to show me the way.
So yeah I group in black desert and Elder Scrolls Online when it's fun to do so. I define my experience.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo